Why does the LIRR take so damn long? Why can't they make their trains faster with less stops?

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[lawnguysland]

Those monorails these days wont make it that fast, the MAPO system (similar to CBTC) speed governs them to about 45-50mph at the most. They recently had to cut late evening service back because the trains and the track system are getting worn out.

 

 

 

it would be a waste, where you gunna put that single nassau stop? Hicksville, Mineola? wheres the suffolk stop gunna be? The current system is fine, they just need a few grade crossings removed in western nassau and they would be able to run a bit faster. But theres a reason some places dont have too many expresses, and that is demand, the parts that do like those 3 stop express clusters on the babylon branch is becasue the trains fill up fast in the mornings and evenings, so they need to run more trains, meanwhile the Long Beach and Hempstead branches make every single stop on all trains, and plus Ronkonkoma is only a busy stop because people drive west from Medford and beyond, not becasue the area is filled with a lot of mass transit riders, which Suffolk isnt because its very far out and theres a lot of businesses in Suffolk County in places like Melville, Islandia, Brookhaven, etc.

 

1 stop in Ronkonkoma, 1 stop in Mineola, 1 stop in Penn. 30-40 minute ride. Easily. That's how it should be anyway. The profit you would make from such an easy trip into NYC would exceed the cost. If you can have a train only take 40 minutes to get into Ronk from Penn, you will see many more LI people with NYC jobs commuting. More commuters=more money. Faster times=more customers in a day=more money. You are a fool if you think Ronkonkoma is "far out". It's central long island. Far out is Riverhead. Far out is Greenport. Far out is Montauk and the Hamptons. Ronkonkoma is in the metro area and being 50 miles from Manhattan and 30 miles from Queens is not far out unless you are very impatient.

[lawnguysland]

Never confuse Central Suffolk with the east end. Central Suffolk goes from about Brentwood to Yaphank. Generally, Riverhead is the start of "out east", not Ronkonkoma which is 30 miles from NYC border. You clearly don't realize how large LI is if you consider it out east. You can drive 70 more miles FURTHER east from Ronkonkoma.

[GojiMet86]

1 stop in Ronkonkoma, 1 stop in Mineola, 1 stop in Penn. 30-40 minute ride. Easily. That's how it should be anyway. The profit you would make from such an easy trip into NYC would exceed the cost. If you can have a train only take 40 minutes to get into Ronk from Penn, you will see many more LI people with NYC jobs commuting. More commuters=more money. Faster times=more customers in a day=more money. You are a fool if you think Ronkonkoma is "far out". It's central long island. Far out is Riverhead. Far out is Greenport. Far out is Montauk and the Hamptons. Ronkonkoma is in the metro area and being 50 miles from Manhattan and 30 miles from Queens is not far out unless you are very impatient.

 

You're line of reasoning is quite illogical. You're saying that having less stops and faster trains would make more money. What about the other stops on the line? That's so many people skipped, which means less revenue. You're not exaclty right. Although more speed attracts people, it can't and shouldn't be at the expense of other customers. Faster trains? Yes. Less stops? Not exactly.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[qjtransitmaster]

That's not how public transportation works. Let's say you have someone who lives in Hicksville. What is saved, what is better, by making him go to Mineola to wait for a train, vs him just getting on the train in Hicksville? increased speed will not bring more customers in droves if they have to travel further to get to the train. The MTA already has a ridership of about 11 million people a day. For the record, that's 11 times the ridership of LACMTA and boston, 5.5 times that of chicago. It's basicly that of the rest of the top ten US systems put togther. They really don't need to worry about arracting riders.

Agreed that is the same logic that makes using stations west of rockville centre to go east VERY IMPRACTICAL!!!!!!!!!!! No one will go to lynbrook then wait 40 mins just to reach freeport or points EAST well said. Transit is about making connections and creating an interconnected network to serve the masses.

You're line of reasoning is quite illogical. You're saying that having less stops and faster trains would make more money. What about the other stops on the line? That's so many people skipped, which means less revenue. You're not exaclty right. Although more speed attracts people, it can't and shouldn't be at the expense of other customers. Faster trains? Yes. Less stops? Not exactly.

It can be done BUT NOT THE WAY HE SUGGESTED. It would only work if greenport line became frequent and maybe extend over a bridge to CT or RI somewhere.

 

1 stop in Ronkonkoma, 1 stop in Mineola, 1 stop in Penn. 30-40 minute ride. Easily. That's how it should be anyway. The profit you would make from such an easy trip into NYC would exceed the cost. If you can have a train only take 40 minutes to get into Ronk from Penn, you will see many more LI people with NYC jobs commuting. More commuters=more money. Faster times=more customers in a day=more money. You are a fool if you think Ronkonkoma is "far out". It's central long island. Far out is Riverhead. Far out is Greenport. Far out is Montauk and the Hamptons. Ronkonkoma is in the metro area and being 50 miles from Manhattan and 30 miles from Queens is not far out unless you are very impatient.

 

Very foolish that means several passengers can't connect to SCT and LIB bus rtes this distrupts connectivity. This will only work if the trains doing that are through trains direct to GREENPORT or beyond. Seriously driving WILL NEVER BEAT THE LIRR TO NYC EVER understand that ok. There is no strategy behind your rants whatsoever.

[lilbluefoxie]

1 stop in Ronkonkoma, 1 stop in Mineola, 1 stop in Penn. 30-40 minute ride. Easily. That's how it should be anyway. The profit you would make from such an easy trip into NYC would exceed the cost. If you can have a train only take 40 minutes to get into Ronk from Penn, you will see many more LI people with NYC jobs commuting. More commuters=more money. Faster times=more customers in a day=more money. You are a fool if you think Ronkonkoma is "far out". It's central long island. Far out is Riverhead. Far out is Greenport. Far out is Montauk and the Hamptons. Ronkonkoma is in the metro area and being 50 miles from Manhattan and 30 miles from Queens is not far out unless you are very impatient.

 

that has to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. Mineola is already jam packed, you are saying everyone in Nassau and Western Suffolk should drive to mineola to take a train to NYC. The Ronkonkoma branch is crowded as it is, they are in no lack of passengers. When I get on Ronkonkoma trains going to Penn Station its sometimes difficult to find a seat, even on off peak times.

[qjtransitmaster]

that has to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. Mineola is already jam packed, you are saying everyone in Nassau and Western Suffolk should drive to mineola to take a train to NYC. The Ronkonkoma branch is crowded as it is, they are in no lack of passengers. When I get on Ronkonkoma trains going to Penn Station its sometimes difficult to find a seat, even on off peak times.

 

exactly that idea is woefully incomplete and sucks hardcore I know I used ronkonkoma trains now I know why SCT S45 is a sardine can!!!! The only way this would work is if there were 4 tracks from ronkonkoma to jamacia AS IF!!!!!! And greenport trains ran frequently and made 1 stop in mineola after ronkonkoma local riders transfer to reg local train for local stops. PFFT this guy really hasn't learned how the LIRR works.

 

@ lawnsguy before you come up with a was to modify LIRR service plz think it through completely I mean think plz

[checkmatechamp13]

That's not how public transportation works. Let's say you have someone who lives in Hicksville. What is saved, what is better, by making him go to Mineola to wait for a train, vs him just getting on the train in Hicksville? increased speed will not bring more customers in droves if they have to travel further to get to the train. The MTA already has a ridership of about 11 million people a day. For the record, that's 11 times the ridership of LACMTA and boston, 5.5 times that of chicago. It's basicly that of the rest of the top ten US systems put togther. They really don't need to worry about arracting riders.

 

Well, they shouldn't eliminate all of the stations, but in the long-term, they should double-track the Ronkonkoma Branch and triple-track the Main Line. You can have express trains stop at Ronkonkoma, Hicksville, Mineola, and Jamaica. The local trains can handle the rest of the stops.

 

I mean, expresses are good if they can get a large number of riders. From those 4 stops, you could easily fill those trains and still provide a fast ride for those out east.

 

1) Agreed that is the same logic that makes using stations west of rockville centre to go east VERY IMPRACTICAL!!!!!!!!!!! No one will go to lynbrook then wait 40 mins just to reach freeport or points EAST well said. Transit is about making connections and creating an interconnected network to serve the masses.

It can be done BUT NOT THE WAY HE SUGGESTED. It would only work if greenport line became frequent and maybe extend over a bridge to CT or RI somewhere.

 

2) Very foolish that means several passengers can't connect to SCT and LIB bus rtes this distrupts connectivity. This will only work if the trains doing that are through trains direct to GREENPORT or beyond. Seriously driving WILL NEVER BEAT THE LIRR TO NYC EVER understand that ok. There is no strategy behind your rants whatsoever.

 

1) Isn't that what the N4 is for?

 

Besides, being infrequent, most LIRR riders aren't going to wait the full 40 minutes for the train. They'll look at the schedule and show up 10 minutes before the train arrives.

 

2) Well, you win some, you lose some. See my above plan: If you can have both reasonably frequent locals and expresses, it's not too bad.

 

And there are times when the driving can beat the LIRR: If you're going to Upper Manhattan or The Bronx and it's off-peak. Hell, for a lot of the areas along the Belt Parkway, it's probably faster to drive than take the LIRR at any time.

[qjtransitmaster]

Well, they shouldn't eliminate all of the stations, but in the long-term, they should double-track the Ronkonkoma Branch and triple-track the Main Line. You can have express trains stop at Ronkonkoma, Hicksville, Mineola, and Jamaica. The local trains can handle the rest of the stops.

 

I mean, expresses are good if they can get a large number of riders. From those 4 stops, you could easily fill those trains and still provide a fast ride for those out east.

 

 

 

1) Isn't that what the N4 is for?Besides, being infrequent, most LIRR riders aren't going to wait the full 40 minutes for the train. They'll look at the schedule and show up 10 minutes before the train arrives.

 

2) Well, you win some, you lose some. See my above plan: If you can have both reasonably frequent locals and expresses, it's not too bad.

 

And there are times when the driving can beat the LIRR: If you're going to Upper Manhattan or The Bronx and it's off-peak. Hell, for a lot of the areas along the Belt Parkway, it's probably faster to drive than take the LIRR at any time.

HMM upper manhattan ok thats till airtrain LGA is unleashed then even that market will soon become LIRR's watch transit travel times surpass driving once that happens. Heck even if coachusa grew ballz and extended some GWB rte to jamacia LIRR via LGA then it's a rap for driving dominance. However I get the feeling there is an untapped market coachusa can capture if they play it right they will have a goldmine.

 

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! N4 is on merrick rd NOT sunrise hwy!!! Does N4 go to green acres mall NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Does it serve LIRR stations west of lynbrook on sunrise hwy NO!!!!!!!!!!!!! next!!!! ppl arent gonna shelp to merrick rd for a crushloaded bus they probably can't even get on have you seen N4 crowds buddy exactly. By the way if LIRR bay ridge was restored even the belt will no longer compete with the LIRR. AGAIN 40 MINS TO TRANSFER!!!!!!!!!!!!! from valley stream trains at lynbrook to get the few babylon trains that actually stop at lynbrook check the schedule and you will see how impractical it is boy.

[lilbluefoxie]

the third track plan is planned from Floral Park to Hicksville, it would be a way to get Port Jefferson, Montauk, and Ronkonkoma trains thru faster without interrupting the main line local stops. So Westbury, New Hyde Park, etc might get better service out of this. 3 tracks to Ronkonkoma wont happen, they'll get 2 tracks so they can go to half hourly service, thats about it.

 

theres rumors about Oyster Bay branch trains terminating at Mineola once the third track is complete, not going all the way to Jamaica.

 

Airtrain/Subway to LGA is still nothing more than ideas at this point. Its harder than it sounds, its not like JFK where they can run it straight down the Van Wyck Expressway, and become a giant eyesore in southern queens. There is no clean and easy way to route it to LGA from Jamaica without encountering lots of community opposition. Even an extension will also encounter lots of opposition, its a dense residential neighborhood. Best you can hope for is more of an express bus type of route from LGA to midtown.

 

 

as for the N4, it serves Rockville Centre and Freeport, it doesnt Serve Baldwin however.

 

if you're in valley stream you can walk 6 blocks to Merrick Road for the N4, its not a huge walk.

 

 

as for the former Bay Ridge branch, that's freight now and probably will remain that way for the future. I cant see that Triboro RX plan ever getting off the ground.

 

also CoachUSA cannot run a route like that, as trucks and buses arent allowed on the Grand Central Parkway, they would basically be running the same route the M60 does. LaGuardia airport was designed to not be easily accessible to public transportation. Theres no market, Long Islanders who use LGA can just drive there, and its not a difficult drive or get a taxi or an airport service to drive you there, if you dont want to leave your car in their parking lot. City people have quite a few local buses to get em there, all are near subway stations, so I dont think theres any issue with LaGuardia Airport.

[qjtransitmaster]

the third track plan is planned from Floral Park to Hicksville, it would be a way to get Port Jefferson, Montauk, and Ronkonkoma trains thru faster without interrupting the main line local stops. So Westbury, New Hyde Park, etc might get better service out of this. 3 tracks to Ronkonkoma wont happen, they'll get 2 tracks so they can go to half hourly service, thats about it.

 

theres rumors about Oyster Bay branch trains terminating at Mineola once the third track is complete, not going all the way to Jamaica.

 

Airtrain/Subway to LGA is still nothing more than ideas at this point. Its harder than it sounds, its not like JFK where they can run it straight down the Van Wyck Expressway, and become a giant eyesore in southern queens. There is no clean and easy way to route it to LGA from Jamaica without encountering lots of community opposition. Even an extension will also encounter lots of opposition, its a dense residential neighborhood. Best you can hope for is more of an express bus type of route from LGA to midtown.

 

 

as for the N4, it serves Rockville Centre and Freeport, it doesnt Serve Baldwin however.

 

if you're in valley stream you can walk 6 blocks to Merrick Road for the N4, its not a huge walk.

 

 

as for the former Bay Ridge branch, that's freight now and probably will remain that way for the future. I cant see that Triboro RX plan ever getting off the ground.

 

also CoachUSA cannot run a route like that, as trucks and buses arent allowed on the Grand Central Parkway, they would basically be running the same route the M60 does. LaGuardia airport was designed to not be easily accessible to public transportation. Theres no market, Long Islanders who use LGA can just drive there, and its not a difficult drive or get a taxi or an airport service to drive you there, if you dont want to leave your car in their parking lot. City people have quite a few local buses to get em there, all are near subway stations, so I dont think theres any issue with LaGuardia Airport.

 

Not accurate I see many monroe buses on the grand central on that segment and also MTA express buses use grand central to get to the LIE from the northern blvd part to LIE buses can in fact use grand central. You underestimate how hard it really is to reach LGA for a distance traveller. It can be done Plus if you route the airtrain between the van wyck and grand central you will make it super easy to reach the flushing meadows areas with direct rail service this way you bypass many residential areas in the process skipping community opposition in the process. Also the airtrain north of jamacia can be routed down the grand central parkway after the jct with van wyck DONE!!!!!!!!! Ohh they will truncate oyster bay hence why I came up with the idea to merge it with a branch line in CT. The big boys at MTA told me almost everything. While I asked board members. I would love the better rail service though 30 min ronkonkoma service is very interesting.

[lawnguysland]

You guys have no idea what I'm talking about so let me clear it up. YOU KEEP THE CURRENT LIRR just the way it is. Ok? The monorail express with 1 stop in suffolk, 1 in nassau and 1 in NYC goes directly above the LIRR as it currently is. This way you still have the LIRR for those lazy people who don't want to drive another 15 min to hop on a much faster train and the LIRR is not disrupted at all. The express is an ADDITION. And you really don't think people would rather get in the city in a half hour to 40 minutes instead of like 1 hour 20 minutes from Ronkonkoma? The LIRR is terrible because a train should get you there faster than a car can but it's just the opposite. I don't work in the city I go there for fun so I can pick what times I want to go. I've driven to queens in 45 minutes. If I take the LIRR to Jamaica it will take me like 1 hour and 10 minutes. It's ridiculous. Build a monorail express that provides an easy no headache trip into Penn or Grand Central. If you don't want to take it then fine there's the LIRR. If you just want to get there much faster then take the monorail. This will probably happen within the next 100 years anyway. It's not nearly as crazy as you people make it seem. Every other country in Europe and Asia do this.

[lawnguysland]

And stop crucifying me for a good idea. I'm not some train engineer and not acting like one. I'm simply introducing a good idea. It could be done if we really wanted it to. And who says it only has to be 3 stops? If it can go fast enough then add some other stops too who cares? You could make one stop in Ronk, one in western suffolk Babylon, one in eastern nassau Hicksville, one in western nasau Mineola then Penn. 5 stops and should be able to get you in Penn from the farthest point east in about 40-45 min. The only true problem is that we are broke and no one would pay for this.

[lilbluefoxie]

Not accurate I see many monroe buses on the grand central on that segment and also MTA express buses use grand central to get to the LIE from the northern blvd part to LIE buses can in fact use grand central. You underestimate how hard it really is to reach LGA for a distance traveller. It can be done Plus if you route the airtrain between the van wyck and grand central you will make it super easy to reach the flushing meadows areas with direct rail service this way you bypass many residential areas in the process skipping community opposition in the process. Also the airtrain north of jamacia can be routed down the grand central parkway after the jct with van wyck DONE!!!!!!!!! Ohh they will truncate oyster bay hence why I came up with the idea to merge it with a branch line in CT. The big boys at MTA told me almost everything. While I asked board members. I would love the better rail service though 30 min ronkonkoma service is very interesting.

 

if they're on that segment, they are risking a ticket and/or slamming into a low overpass. theres a reason the M60 does not use the grand central, and also I have the Queens map with me, there are no Express Buses on that segment near the airport, only a small stretch between Exit 9 and 10.

 

I live in Eastern Nassau and im able to get to both LGA and JFK without much difficulty, either by car when im driving one of my relatives to and from the airport or with a car service like Ollies or Classic. I've driven to Islip Airport too which is far into Suffolk County, and its not a difficult journey either.

 

Also, you are still going to get community opposition to the airtrain to LGA, which I believe was already a cancelled project. there's just not enough room to stick it down any of those highways, it was a stretch to fit it in the middle of the Southern van wyck. A large elevated line has no place on a Parkway which are designed to be more scenic than the regular expressways, plus its going to go near someones neighborhood or in view as it would have to be made pretty tall to get over some of those major interchanges.

 

as for your remark about people being lazy, have you ever driven to Mineola in rush hour? the place is basically gridlocked, with all the County employees going to work, and people going to work in the businesses and things in that area.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[VWM]

SHUT UP AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR DAMN COMMUTE!:mad:

Rant over.

 

They have Ronkonkoma Express trains. Example, The 6:24 out of Ronk. gets to penn @ 7:30.

Ronkonkoma

Hicksville

Penn Station

Easy.

[Trainmaster5]

SHUT UP AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR DAMN COMMUTE!:mad:

Rant over.

 

They have Ronkonkoma Express trains. Example, The 6:24 out of Ronk. gets to penn @ 7:30.

Ronkonkoma

Hicksville

Penn Station

Easy.

 

Thank you. I pointed that out earlier in the thread. BTW OP ,the only way you beat that KO-NYP train is by helicopter. Forget driving a car.

[VWM]

Thank you. I pointed that out earlier in the thread. BTW OP ,the only way you beat that KO-NYP train is by helicopter. Forget driving a car.

 

i must have missed it with being so annoyed about this gut just publicly b******* about his commute.

[qjtransitmaster]

if they're on that segment, they are risking a ticket and/or slamming into a low overpass. theres a reason the M60 does not use the grand central, and also I have the Queens map with me, there are no Express Buses on that segment near the airport, only a small stretch between Exit 9 and 10.

 

I live in Eastern Nassau and im able to get to both LGA and JFK without much difficulty, either by car when im driving one of my relatives to and from the airport or with a car service like Ollies or Classic. I've driven to Islip Airport too which is far into Suffolk County, and its not a difficult journey either.

 

Also, you are still going to get community opposition to the airtrain to LGA, which I believe was already a cancelled project. there's just not enough room to stick it down any of those highways, it was a stretch to fit it in the middle of the Southern van wyck. A large elevated line has no place on a Parkway which are designed to be more scenic than the regular expressways, plus its going to go near someones neighborhood or in view as it would have to be made pretty tall to get over some of those major interchanges.

 

as for your remark about people being lazy, have you ever driven to Mineola in rush hour? the place is basically gridlocked, with all the County employees going to work, and people going to work in the businesses and things in that area.

 

I am well aware of mineola been there several times. LGA airtrain if done at vanwyck then over northern can be positioned over and away from the neighborhood

[qjtransitmaster]

SHUT UP AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT YOUR DAMN COMMUTE!:mad:

Rant over.

 

They have Ronkonkoma Express trains. Example, The 6:24 out of Ronk. gets to penn @ 7:30.

Ronkonkoma

Hicksville

Penn Station

Easy.

 

more to follow after upgrades to tracks are done

[lilbluefoxie]

I am well aware of mineola been there several times. LGA airtrain if done at vanwyck then over northern can be positioned over and away from the neighborhood

 

not gunna work, theres not enough space given the roadway configuration to get it thru the Kew Gardens Interchange, then the entire highway is on a viaduct over the LIE untill the Whitestone Interchange (Exit 13A-D), then on that segement it will be very difficult to stick a large elevated line over all of that adn then try to position it down the grand central, not to mention where in LaGuardia do you put the station? its a much smaller airport than JFK, not to mention the Marine Air Terminal.

[qjtransitmaster]

not gunna work, theres not enough space given the roadway configuration to get it thru the Kew Gardens Interchange, then the entire highway is on a viaduct over the LIE untill the Whitestone Interchange (Exit 13A-D), then on that segement it will be very difficult to stick a large elevated line over all of that adn then try to position it down the grand central, not to mention where in LaGuardia do you put the station? its a much smaller airport than JFK, not to mention the Marine Air Terminal.

It can be at the median of the highway Then the station can be built into a redesign of LGA to make the airport more attractive in the process while enhancing transit access. The LGA airtrain will also act as a crosstown for LIRR lines and port washington branch in a sense so ppl can avoid Q44

[lilbluefoxie]

take a good look at the Van Wyck in that area, part of it is on a viaduct you cant stick a large elevated line on top of that without rebuilding the entire thing to make sure its structurally sound. Then when you get to the Whitestone Expressway interchange, those ramps would have to be reconfigured to fit the support columns of the thing between them.

 

You also speak of a redesign of LGA, that is another thing that will be costly and disruptive to the airport. LGA, especially the Delta part is a little dated but for the most part it works, and they have been updating it here and there.

 

Overall this plan will be costly and take years to complete, its probably cheaper just to add more buses to the Q44 and M60 routes if either are very busy.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters