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Brighton Express

(N) via Sea Beach Express [Or is it?]

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On every (N) R160 I have seen, the side sign says "Sea Beach Express". The train runs Sea Beach Local though. Is there a reason they have it as that? Will the (N) run Sea Beach Express in the future? It has run express via Brighton (B), and via West End (D). If it doesn't run express, and the side sign said it should, why don't they change it?

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On every (N) R160 I have seen, the side sign says "Sea Beach Express". The train runs Sea Beach Local though. Is there a reason they have it as that? Will the (N) run Sea Beach Express in the future? It has run express via Brighton (B), and via West End (D). If it doesn't run express, and the side sign said it should, why don't they change it?

 

It's just a thing designated by the BMT. Sort of similar to why R160 (D) trains would have the West End Express programming, and no there isn't a plan to run express (N) trains anytime soon, and there never would be since crowding isn't a problem on the Sea Beach Line, and it's a history thing so no they will not change it.

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On every (N) R160 I have seen, the side sign says "Sea Beach Express". The train runs Sea Beach Local though. Is there a reason they have it as that? Will the (N) run Sea Beach Express in the future? It has run express via Brighton (B), and via West End (D). If it doesn't run express, and the side sign said it should, why don't they change it?

 

Because they don't display the entire sign: Sea beach via 4th Av express. Yes early on I thought it was strange it read "Sea Beach express", but there is no active express service on that segment.

 

If it read: Sea Beach local, people might think it is going to run local on 4th Av.

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Because they don't display the entire sign: Sea beach via 4th Av express. Yes early on I thought it was strange it read "Sea Beach express", but there is no active express service on that segment.

 

If it read: Sea Beach local, people might think it is going to run local on 4th Av.

 

Pretty much the reason why the (D) has the West End Express program, it means West End via 4 Avenue Express

 

Just adding on here.

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Speaking of Sea Beach express are the express tracks ever gonna be used again? (like for G.O's and reroutes)

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Speaking of Sea Beach express are the express tracks ever gonna be used again? (like for G.O's and reroutes)

 

I don't see why one can't be used. Seeing as how the express tracks have no midpoint station like Kings Highway or new Utrecht, I don't see the point of having the other track being used/rebuilt. - IMO.

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Right now, the other track is just a staging area for the rehab. Just to let everyone know other than a GO there will be no throughput regular service on the express track, except possibly (R) putins.

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When the rehab the done one track will be online for road service, I'm not sure if they'll ever do the second one.

 

nope...no need for it (north of Kings Hwy anyway)

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It's just a thing designated by the BMT. Sort of similar to why R160 (D) trains would have the West End Express programming, and no there isn't a plan to run express (N) trains anytime soon, and there never would be since crowding isn't a problem on the Sea Beach Line, and it's a history thing so no they will not change it.

 

I agree it is a history thing as when I rode the Standards and Triplexes from 86th Street over 50+ years ago, I do not remember seeing the Sea Beach Local signs used while trains were in service. There was a Sea Beach Local sign on the roll sign but it was not used unlike the West End Express and West End Local. Those of who rode the line at that time did not think anything of it as the train ran express on 4th Avenue and in Manhattan.

 

As far as a full Sea Beach Express from Kings Highway, the only time that the line is crowded is when a train is running late or is missing. While there may be stops like 8th Avenue and 18th Avenue where many people board, you can usually get a seat for the most part on the line.

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i agree. It had something to do with past time. I thing Sea Beach express mean they they back then it faster way to get to Coney Island in competition with West End Line. It also help people who are traveling know the different between West End and Sea Beach. Sea Beach sign can help those who need to go to 59 street way rather then taking the elevated line.

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There has always been a fluid definition of the word, "express" when it came to the elevated and subway lines. Generally an "express route" is a train line that skips a "local stop" somewhere somehow at sometime along its route.

 

There's an even more fluid definition to the notion of an "express stop" or "express station". The subway maps, train signage, etc. have all at one time or another differed over time as to what exactly is an "express stop".

 

Just look at some of the older subway maps and their route designations, and attempt to locate some kind of standard definition to "express route" and "express stop" over the history of the subways and elevated lines. Good luck with that.

 

Take the current N-train route. Now it is all local in Queens along the Astoria segment, local in Manhattan along the BMT Broadway segment until Canal Street, then it takes a trip over the Manhattan Bridge, then is express along 4th Avenue in Brooklyn, and then local along the Sea Beach segment to/from Coney Island.

 

Plenty of times - an "express route" was a route that was "express" in Manhattan as the defining characteristic, for example the #4 or #5, and the A-train even when it is local in Brooklyn and Queens. At one time #5 rush hour Bronx express run were called the "super-express". Then there is the E and F train routes - both local in Manhattan about express in Queens, and for the F-train all local in Brooklyn. Compare or contrast with the #2 and #3 routes and the Q-train. The #2 and #3 routes are only express in Manhattan from 96th Street to Chambers Street, and local everywhere else. The Q-train is express only in Manhattan, and depending upon its run - it skips 4 or 5 local stops before heading to Brooklyn, where it is all local to/from Coney Island. The Q-train makes about a dozen or so stops in either direction (north or south) of its "express portion". Or how about the Manhattan A-train, south of 59th Street it has a difference of only 3 stops compared to the C local before it reaches Brooklyn.

 

I guess an express route is whatever the MTA decides to call it.

 

Mike

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Guest MTA Bus

It's like the (J) & (Z). They say Nassau Street Express, but they run express between Myrtle Av - Broadway and Marcy Avenue.

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Because they don't display the entire sign: Sea beach via 4th Av express. Yes early on I thought it was strange it read "Sea Beach express", but there is no active express service on that segment.

 

If it read: Sea Beach local, people might think it is going to run local on 4th Av.

 

For that I would of had the sign say..

 

N | 4th Ave / Bwy Exp

N | Sea Beach Lcl

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It's like the (J) & (Z). They say Nassau Street Express, but they run express between Myrtle Av - Broadway and Marcy Avenue.

 

Thats cuz the trunk line there is Nassau St (although the train themselves is only under Nassau St for a block or 2)

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For that I would of had the sign say..

 

N | 4th Ave / Bwy Exp

N | Sea Beach Lcl

 

Thing is, unless one is talking about numbers, TA would like to spell out all the Manhattan-related names (except in terms like when the (2) is rerouted to Lex, and there isn't enough room to have VIA and LEXINGTON in there). Increased creativity could be used, however and less abbreviation altogether.

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Guest lance25

What about these:

 

normal (D) route

(D) CONEY ISLAND

(D) 6 AV EXPRESS

(D) 4 AV EXP/WEST END

 

(D) via true West End Express

(D) CONEY ISLAND

(D) 6 AV EXPRESS

(D) 4 AV-WEST END EXP or WEST END THRU EXP

 

normal (N) route

(N) CONEY ISLAND

(N) BROADWAY EXP

(N) 4 AV EXP/SEA BEACH

 

(N) via (NX) route

(N) CONEY ISLAND

(N) BROADWAY EXP

(N) 4 AV-SEA BEACH EXP or SEA BEACH THRU EXP

 

Those should be able to fit onto the signs. Of course, since it isn't that big of a deal, it probably won't be changed any time soon.

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It's like the (J) & (Z). They say Nassau Street Express, but they run express between Myrtle Av - Broadway and Marcy Avenue.

 

I do remember back then during the Late 90's or Early 2000's,North and Southbound (J)(Z) trains skipped the Bowery Street Station as a Nassau Street Express between Canal Street and Essex-Delancey Street Stations during Midday hour,while the Midday (M) to 9th Avenue operated as a Local,don't remember if it was ever a GO. I noticed on the maps during that time that the J-M-Z letters on Bowery Station where lighter and the other stations letter J-M-Z were bolder as to indicate Bowery was skipped during those hours.Does anybody remember that service pattern ?

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I do remember back then during the Late 90's or Early 2000's,North and Southbound (J)(Z) trains skipped the Bowery Street Station as a Nassau Street Express between Canal Street and Essex-Delancey Street Stations during Midday hour,while the Midday (M) to 9th Avenue operated as a Local,don't remember if it was ever a GO. I noticed on the maps during that time that the J-M-Z letters on Bowery Station where lighter and the other stations letter J-M-Z were bolder as to indicate Bowery was skipped during those hours.Does anybody remember that service pattern ?
The Bowery station bypass for (J)/(Z) trains was introduced in December 1988, along with the skip stop service. The reason was because of low ridership, but it became an all-day stop for (J)/(Z) trains years later. There is an old signage at 104th Street SB indicating express service between Myrtle Av and Canal St, but who knows if the MTA corrected that sign...

 

edit: Click here, here, and here (scroll to the bottom).

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It seems that the TA changes the names of the lines for different reasons, but I would think mainly to ease customer-confusion. The Crosstown, Smith St, or Prospect Park IND (not sure which is actually correct) is just covered under Culver now. Likewise, the Bway Bklyn El has been refered to on signs as part of the Jamaica Line and Nassau St Exp/Lcl.

 

For the (N), Sea Bch Exp is used essentially as it was by the BMT and any of the suggesitons in the aforementioned posts wouldn't make a bit of difference to customers on the line, but just add unnecessary clutter on the signs. If any (N) needs to run express from 59 St to Stillwell, an additional announcment would have to made, regardless, since it would be so out of the ordinary and affect the majority of passengers who would either be told to take the next train or backride from CI. The sign couldn't tell them any of that.

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