LIRR should reactivate the northern section of its old Rockaway branch: advocates

[Shortline Bus]

"For many years, the residents of the outer boroughs have been shortchanged in mass transit. While billions are being spent for subway expansion in Manhattan, Queens has been neglected. South Queens, in particular, has suffered from inefficient mass transit to Midtown.

 

Both the A and J subway lines have long circuitous routes through Brooklyn and lower Manhattan. Thanks to the proposed convention center at Aqueduct, this picture can be improved dramatically.

 

Some have suggested the revival of the JFK-Super Express service. Since there are more A trains running today than in the 1980s, a service conflict would be created and the needs of the convention center would not be met.

 

Fortunately, there is a better alternative: the revival of the northern section of the old Long Island Rail Road Rockaway branch. The Regional Rail Working Group Rockaway Subcommittee and other transit advocates have studied this line and offer the following options:

 

The Railroad Option would have the LIRR resume operations between Penn Station and Aqueduct. Two stations would be built — at Rego Park and at Aqueduct.

 

The latter would allow transfers to the A train and to the Air Train (if it were extended from Howard Beach). If rail cars are developed with the ability to operate on both lines, a one-seat ride from Midtown to JFK would be created."

 

Long Island Raid Road should reactivate the northern section of its old Rockaway branch: advocates   - NY Daily News

[lilbluefoxie]

"For many years, the residents of the outer boroughs have been shortchanged in mass transit. While billions are being spent for subway expansion in Manhattan, Queens has been neglected. South Queens, in particular, has suffered from inefficient mass transit to Midtown.

 

Both the A and J subway lines have long circuitous routes through Brooklyn and lower Manhattan. Thanks to the proposed convention center at Aqueduct, this picture can be improved dramatically.

 

Some have suggested the revival of the JFK-Super Express service. Since there are more A trains running today than in the 1980s, a service conflict would be created and the needs of the convention center would not be met.

 

Fortunately, there is a better alternative: the revival of the northern section of the old Long Island Rail Road Rockaway branch. The Regional Rail Working Group Rockaway Subcommittee and other transit advocates have studied this line and offer the following options:

 

The Railroad Option would have the LIRR resume operations between Penn Station and Aqueduct. Two stations would be built — at Rego Park and at Aqueduct.

 

The latter would allow transfers to the A train and to the Air Train (if it were extended from Howard Beach). If rail cars are developed with the ability to operate on both lines, a one-seat ride from Midtown to JFK would be created."

 

Long Island Raid Road should reactivate the northern section of its old Rockaway branch: advocates * - NY Daily News

 

I cant see it working, it seems like itll become another airtrain when there already is one. The is long dead, noone wants to go back to the days of the being local in Brooklyn and the doesn't leave Manhattan except rush hours.

[qjtransitmaster]

I cant see it working, it seems like itll become another airtrain when there already is one. The is long dead, noone wants to go back to the days of the being local in Brooklyn and the doesn't leave Manhattan except rush hours.

 

So true if went back to local ppl will RIOT!!!!!! But The need for the aqueduct LIRR will increase as more people go to aqueduct. I think an LIRR line can work like a double sided one via JFK from rockville centre or eastern LI then to manhattan via old LIRR line. Or the east bronx service instead goes to jfk via triborough line and transfer stop at woodside.

 

Or a better easier to implement idea let grand central trains extend to JFK or howard beach and instead of wasting LIRR trains on a queens only type service after east side access is completed simply extend existing MNRR trains to JFK or howard beach via the northern branch of the former rockaway beach line. This way LIRR ppl can get to grand central via woodside transfer without diverting too many trains away from penn station

[Shortline Bus]

So true if went back to local ppl will RIOT!!!!!! But The need for the aqueduct LIRR will increase as more people go to aqueduct. I think an LIRR line can work like a double sided one via JFK from rockville centre or eastern LI then to manhattan via old LIRR line. Or the east bronx service instead goes to jfk via triborough line and transfer stop at woodside.

 

Or a better easier to implement idea let grand central trains extend to JFK or howard beach and instead of wasting LIRR trains on a queens only type service after east side access is completed simply extend existing MNRR trains to JFK or howard beach via the northern branch of the former rockaway beach line. This way LIRR ppl can get to grand central via woodside transfer without diverting too many trains away from penn station

 

 

 

I am confused?:confused: I am serious.

[qjtransitmaster]

I am confused?:confused: I am serious.

 

I will simplify it for you one scenario is 1) extend MNRR trains to JFK howard beach via the northern branch of the Rockaway line instead of wasting LIRR trains on a queens service. LIRR people will have a transfer at woodside for grand central and even one seat service to upstate NY or CT enhancing JFK access. That was why I came up with the B39 idea a direct link from LIRR to LGA for ppl from eastern LI and closing a crosstown gap in subway service.

 

Now ppl have faster williamsburg access.

 

Scenario 2) When east MNRR service is created via new bronx stations then new track from the triborough/AMTRAK branch to go directly to the main line to the woodside LIRR then via new stations along the Rockaway northern branch towards JFK via aquaduct. The service will be provided by thru trains from CT that will time with other locals to grand central at new Rochelle then via bronx stations and with timed LIRR transfers the line continues to JFK like a crosstown service.

[checkmatechamp13]

I will simplify it for you one scenario is 1) extend MNRR trains to JFK howard beach via the northern branch of the Rockaway line instead of wasting LIRR trains on a queens service. LIRR people will have a transfer at woodside for grand central and even one seat service to upstate NY or CT enhancing JFK access. That was why I came up with the B39 idea a direct link from LIRR to LGA for ppl from eastern LI and closing a crosstown gap in subway service.

 

Now ppl have faster williamsburg access.

 

Scenario 2) When east MNRR service is created via new bronx stations then new track from the triborough/AMTRAK branch to go directly to the main line to the woodside LIRR then via new stations along the Rockaway northern branch towards JFK via aquaduct. The service will be provided by thru trains from CT that will time with other locals to grand central at new Rochelle then via bronx stations and with timed LIRR transfers the line continues to JFK like a crosstown service.

 

I don't think there's going to be track connections between the MNRR and LIRR when the East Side Access project is completed. It sucks that they won't have that flexibility, but what can you do?

[lilbluefoxie]

even if they did, the equipment is NOT compatible with either system!

 

- The Third Rail is different on Metro North, they use an under running system instead of a top running system, if you put an LIRR m7 on metro north it WILL destroy the third rail and its contact shoes.

 

- The signaling system is NOT compatible. You cant put a DE30AC with bilevel set on Metro-North as it lacks MNRR's cab signal system.

 

- Likewise you cant run a Genesis locomotive down there as the third rail contact shoes will damage the LIRR style third rail.

 

Also on the first point, this is all assuming that there will be a demand for this new place in Aqueduct Racetrack, for all we know this could be one big flop.

[Den]

This is a lost cause. Every few years some "genius" brings up this idea and nothing ever happens. You know why?

 

1 - The whole line is in extreme disrepair. Everything currently there will need to be removed and scrapped. It is not re-usable at all.

 

2 - All structures will have to be rebuilt. Everything is crumbling.

 

3 - Because of #1 and #2 .. The amount of money it will cost is not worth it. And the MTA will not be able to obtain the billions it will cost.

[lilbluefoxie]

I think this just amounts to politicians just talking crap to score points for next election, I really doubt we will ever see that line being used for anything. Turning it into the next high-line park is probably the most probable thing to come of it.

 

Allow me to reiterate, the idea of the coming back wont happen, back then the was local except rush hours, so the tracks were open for them to run such a service, and everyone proposing plans, what is the big issue with the I've rode it from Broad Channel to Manhattan, its not that long of a ride.

[qjtransitmaster]

even if they did, the equipment is NOT compatible with either system!

 

- The Third Rail is different on Metro North, they use an under running system instead of a top running system, if you put an LIRR m7 on metro north it WILL destroy the third rail and its contact shoes.

 

- The signaling system is NOT compatible. You cant put a DE30AC with bilevel set on Metro-North as it lacks MNRR's cab signal system.

 

- Likewise you cant run a Genesis locomotive down there as the third rail contact shoes will damage the LIRR style third rail.

 

Also on the first point, this is all assuming that there will be a demand for this new place in Aqueduct Racetrack, for all we know this could be one big flop.

Wow in that case then the old rockaway line would have to be rebuilt with MNRR style 3rd rail system for it to work and use separate tracks. You raise very interesting facts very interesting. Ohh then if that can't be done then this line has no chance. Lilblue you have NO IDEA how miserable the is If it wasn't so miserable ppl won't use the QM 17/16

[lilbluefoxie]

Wow in that case then the old rockaway line would have to be rebuilt with MNRR style 3rd rail system for it to work and use separate tracks. You raise very interesting facts very interesting. Ohh then if that can't be done then this line has no chance. Lilblue you have NO IDEA how miserable the is If it wasn't so miserable ppl won't use the QM 17/16

 

I've taken the many times, its one of the few routes I happen to be on more frequently than the others. It runs fast and I prefer it over the when I'm trying to get back to Penn Station.

 

Even if the railroad branch was reactivated, its not going to give better headways than the it'll probably be hourly at best.

 

If you are referring to the people that use the , well Ive felt fine on there. Theyre no worse than the people on the other lines that go through rough areas like the or

[qjtransitmaster]

I've taken the many times, its one of the few routes I happen to be on more frequently than the others. It runs fast and I prefer it over the when I'm trying to get back to Penn Station.

 

Even if the railroad branch was reactivated, its not going to give better headways than the it'll probably be hourly at best.

 

If you are referring to the people that use the , well Ive felt fine on there. Theyre no worse than the people on the other lines that go through rough areas like the or

 

Looks like my last night trip was the best so far no bums from euclid all the way to port authority shocking isn't it.

[Q43LTD]

So true if went back to local ppl will RIOT!!!!!! But The need for the aqueduct LIRR will increase as more people go to aqueduct. I think an LIRR line can work like a double sided one via JFK from rockville centre or eastern LI then to manhattan via old LIRR line. Or the east bronx service instead goes to jfk via triborough line and transfer stop at woodside.

 

Or a better easier to implement idea let grand central trains extend to JFK or howard beach and instead of wasting LIRR trains on a queens only type service after east side access is completed simply extend existing MNRR trains to JFK or howard beach via the northern branch of the former rockaway beach line. This way LIRR ppl can get to grand central via woodside transfer without diverting too many trains away from penn station

Not happening. You got money for that?

[N-Trizzy2609]

My proposal:

 

Use the existing unused ramps from the Queens Blvd Trunk in Rego Park (both ramps are position to run right up into Rockaway Line, and mind you they never used these ramps so it'll be like new.), build two new bellmouths right at the foot of the Rockaway Line, the run a two track subway line down it to connect with the train at Ozone Park. Add three station, Jamaica Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, and Liberty Avenue. (Yes these are spots of the original stations along the line.) Then build new crossover just after JFK station, so the Queens Blvd-JFK train can use the center tracks to layup. This would cost half of what it would take to bring the LIRR back on the line. Plus, when the A train come into the picuture, where the hell can LIRR run? On top of the A? Cause they can't share track. That would require making the whole system FRA specs... :/

[Roadcruiser1]

My proposal:

 

Use the existing unused ramps from the Queens Blvd Trunk in Rego Park (both ramps are position to run right up into Rockaway Line, and mind you they never used these ramps so it'll be like new.), build two new bellmouths right at the foot of the Rockaway Line, the run a two track subway line down it to connect with the train at Ozone Park. Add three station, Jamaica Avenue, Atlantic Avenue, and Liberty Avenue. (Yes these are spots of the original stations along the line.) Then build new crossover just after JFK station, so the Queens Blvd-JFK train can use the center tracks to layup. This would cost half of what it would take to bring the LIRR back on the line. Plus, when the A train come into the picuture, where the hell can LIRR run? On top of the A? Cause they can't share track. That would require making the whole system FRA specs... :/

 

Airtrain JFK can't run on the subway. The subway is heavy rail, but the Airtrain is a people mover. Two different systems can't share track. Also you never mentioned what subway service would use such a line making the idea useless.

[qjtransitmaster]

Airtrain JFK can't run on the subway. The subway is heavy rail, but the Airtrain is a people mover. Two different systems can't share track. Also you never mentioned what subway service would use such a line making the idea useless.

 

true however an extension of the rockaway park may be a subway line capable of using the old rockaway branch that is the most practical way turn it into a subway line then let it use the 2nd ave subway in manhattan in the future. The new line can be called the

[Roadcruiser1]

true however an extension of the rockaway park may be a subway line capable of using the old rockaway branch that is the most practical way turn it into a subway line then let it use the 2nd ave subway in manhattan in the future. The new line can be called the

 

You are WallyHorse 2.0 aren't you?

[qjtransitmaster]

You are WallyHorse 2.0 aren't you?

 

WTF?? what does that even mean?

 

Well considering all the MNRR and LIRR limitations the most practical way to restore service would be to convert it into another subway line.

[N-Trizzy2609]

Airtrain JFK can't run on the subway. The subway is heavy rail, but the Airtrain is a people mover. Two different systems can't share track. Also you never mentioned what subway service would use such a line making the idea useless.

 

Ummm, where and when did I mention Airtrain? Did you even read what I wrote.

[qjtransitmaster]

Ummm, where and when did I mention Airtrain? Did you even read what I wrote.

 

Welcome to my world

[Guest lance25]

Airtrain JFK can't run on the subway. The subway is heavy rail, but the Airtrain is a people mover. Two different systems can't share track. Also you never mentioned what subway service would use such a line making the idea useless.

 

He didn't say a damn thing about the AirTrain. He said to connect the current Rockaways branch to the Rego Park spur via the abandoned Rockaway Beach branch of the LIRR. Please read carefully before commenting.

 

The only thing about trying to use that branch for anything is its cost. Remember, the line's been out of service since the early '60s. In fact, come this June, it will be exactly 50 years since anything has run on that line. In my opinion, if anything's to be done, they'd be better off tearing down the whole structure and starting from scratch using the right-of-way. It's a shame, yes, I know, but I doubt much money would be saved trying to revitalize the existing structure.

[Shortline Bus]

He didn't say a damn thing about the AirTrain. He said to connect the current Rockaways branch to the Rego Park spur via the abandoned Rockaway Beach branch of the LIRR. Please read carefully before commenting.

 

The only thing about trying to use that branch for anything is its cost. Remember, the line's been out of service since the early '60s. In fact, come this June, it will be exactly 50 years since anything has run on that line. In my opinion, if anything's to be done, they'd be better off tearing down the whole structure and starting from scratch using the right-of-way. It's a shame, yes, I know, but I doubt much money would be saved trying to revitalize the existing structure.

 

I always felt (call me crazy) just tear down and start from scratch and make it a light rail. Say if it read between Woodside (connecting with the LIRR and ) and Howard Beach-JFK it would be a great help in relieve overcrowding on the (Q53) (Q11) lines.

[qjtransitmaster]

I always felt (call me crazy) just tear down and start from scratch and make it a light rail. Say if it read between Woodside (connecting with the LIRR and ) and Howard Beach-JFK it would be a great help in relieve overcrowding on the (Q53) (Q11) lines.

 

Or outright kill the ridership bases on those buses. However I would have 2 different ideas for it one is make a new line run it to rego park then go underground via the then 2nd ave subway to upper manhattan then underground or elevated near the harlem river to GWB bus terminal thus connecting NJ bound folk to GWB which would increase ridership on those lines and create an alternative to the major failway will go onward to inwood it's like a faster version of the .

 

2nd proposal light rail with a transfer station with subway and LIRR then to LGA then via randalls island towards GWB.

[Roadcruiser1]

Or outright kill the ridership bases on those buses. However I would have 2 different ideas for it one is make a new line run it to rego park then go underground via the then 2nd ave subway to upper manhattan then underground or elevated near the harlem river to GWB bus terminal thus connecting NJ bound folk to GWB which would increase ridership on those lines and create an alternative to the major failway will go onward to inwood it's like a faster version of the .

 

2nd proposal light rail with a transfer station with subway and LIRR then to LGA then via randalls island towards GWB.

 

One word. No. Three reasons.

 

1) New Jersey has PATH and the HBLR so they don't need the subway.

 

2) There are cheaper ways to connect LaGuardia to the city.

 

3) Why do this when there are lines that are much more warranted for this like the ?

[qjtransitmaster]

One word. No. Three reasons.

 

1) New Jersey has PATH and the HBLR so they don't need the subway.

 

2) There are cheaper ways to connect LaGuardia to the city.

 

3) Why do this when there are lines that are much more warranted for this like the ?

 

Interesting good idea I was only trying to give 2nd ave subway a 2nd function. Besides the HBLR AND PATH are useless to ppl north of the GWB cause last I checked most of the traffic via GWB is going to the bronx and northwest queens which my proposed line would address that market which is why I-87 is backed up all the time. The cheaper option is make LGA a bua terminal and let GWB buses give direct access to LGA. Or a pittsburgh style busway to allow buses to do it. Or like you said extend the over the 2nd ave to GWB. PABT wins due to better train connections. My has ability to be a faster version of the indirectly and make Gwb attractive. I am curious cheaper ways to link LGA to the city what would you suggest from your opinion you have interesting ideas spill in.