Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Q21 being extended to Queens Blvd has hurted the Q11 ridership dramatically. In 2007 the Q11 ridership was around 12,000 and in 2011 it's at 6,000-5,000. When people get use to the Q52 you will see how it will later hurt the Q53 and that's why service cuts need to be made.

 

It hasn't hurted the Q11 that much.

[B35 via Church]

IMO, I would restructure the Q11 a bit.

 

I would retain the Old Howard Beach Branch. The Hamilton Beach branch I would probably discontinue since there is a bridge connecting hamilton and howard beach. However I would reroute that Hamilton Branch to JFK Airport, via a routing I'm still deciding on. My conclusion is south of Piktin, there really isnt a lot of ridership. If the didnt stop at howard beach the Q11 ridership south of piktin would be pretty well.

Q11 JFK branch is added. New routing. Current Q11 Howard Beach branch will remain. Hamilton Beach branch will be discontinued since there is a bridge connecting Howard and Hamilton Beach, so thats not a problem.

 

Hold on, one branch remaining at old howard & one branch all the way out to JFK - b/c ridership w/i hamilton beach is weak?

More superroutes in the making here.... Also don't like the idea of having those older folks that do use the 11 down in hamilton beach having to walk across a footbridge for bus service.....

 

 

Nope the best thing to do is eliminate the Q21 and keep the Q11 and serve both howard beach branches. Yep hamilton beach branch can be discontinued.

 

What I was going to suggest is that the Q37 serve JFK and act like an alternative to the Q10. The Q10 and Q37 serve the same areas and can relieve the Q10 crowd.

 

1) I'd simply move the 21 over to hamilton beach & have it reflect current Q11 hamilton bch. branch headways, instead of getting rid of it..... It'd still be a service cut, since the current Q21 runs 30 mins throughout on weekdays & weekends, while the Q11 hamilton bch branch runs on 60 min headways weekday middays & weekends....

 

2) Part in bold, is the reason why the Q37 doesn't need to run to the airport....

I'd apply the same logic you, yourself stated in another thread:

 

You know every route can't go to the airport.

 

I mean hell, especially after the Q37 extension to Aqueduct, that route should stay serving the areas outside JFK...

 

 

The Q21 being extended to Queens Blvd has hurted the Q11 ridership dramatically.

 

An Embellishment if I've ever seen one..... You're making it sound like so many more people have abandoned Q11's for Q21's, which is just not true..... The Q21 is still the supplementary route....

Edited September 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[B35 via Church]

why have a q11 to JFK? There is the and Q10 for a reason...

 

Basically, this.... I'm not understanding why the Q11 should run out to the airport....

The low usage in hamilton beach is hardly a reason, considering that the Q11 in its totality gets way more than enough usage on Woodhaven.....

 

 

Why eliminate the Q21? The Q11 and the Q21 combined only run 15 minutes off-peak, how much lower should it go? The 11 and 21 can already get crowded at times, let's not make these bad headaways any worse.

 

And if you run the Q11 to Howard Beach where the 21 and the 41 terminate, it'll still be the same service with just a different number.

 

Well, the only difference b/w what College pt. Man & Q23 Central Term. are suggesting w/ the 11 is that one wants to send one of the branches to JFK & the other wants to send it down to howard bch..... I don't have a problem w/ the 11 going down to howard bch via Lindenwood per se, I just don't think the Q21 route/notation should be lifted, nor really, bus service on the hamilton bch. side being discontinued.....

 

 

I'll break it down this way so it's easier to depict it all:

 

Current MTA service:

Q11 branch to old howard, Q11 branch to hamilton bch, Q21 via lindenwood to howard bch

 

For the purpose of (trying to) save money:

- B35 via Church: Q11 branch to old howard, Q11 branch via lindenwood to howard bch, Q21 to hamilton beach

- College pt. man: Q11 branch to old howard, Q11 branch (via lindenwood ?) to howard bch, Q21 eliminated

- AEMoreira81 (in an older thread):

Q11 branch to old howard beach, Q11 branch (named "Q51") to howard beach [via N. conduit subway (cohancy) & via 157th], Q21 hamilton beach

 

For the purpose of increased usage (?):

- Q23 Central Term: Q11 branch to old howard, Q11 branch to JFK, Q21 via lindenwood

Edited September 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

 

 

 

An Embellishment if I've ever seen one..... You're making it sound like so many more people have abandoned Q21's for Q11's, which is just not true..... The Q21 is still the supplementary route....

 

The only actual time the Q11 ridership went drastically down was when the Q53 started making Limited Stops On Woodhaven Blvd. But I don't know if ridership went that drastically down. I know for sure the Q11 has almost sustained the same since the Q21 Extention. Just the reason that Woodhaven Blvd riders are interchangeable btwn Q11/Q21 and Q52/53.

[B35 via Church]

Typo in the above quoted post of mine, corrected.... it should've read "abandoned Q11's for Q21's"....

In any event:

 

The only actual time the Q11 ridership went drastically down was when the Q53 started making Limited Stops On Woodhaven Blvd. But I don't know if ridership went that drastically down. I know for sure the Q11 has almost sustained the same since the Q21 Extention. Just the reason that Woodhaven Blvd riders are interchangeable btwn Q11/Q21 and Q52/53.

 

Noticable, yes... I wouldn't use the adjective drastic though....

Drastic to me would be the pre-2008 Q21 (rockaway park to rockaway blvd ) vs. the post-2008 Q21 (running up to QB)

 

You're right, regarding the 11's ridership after the 53 got those stops added to it south of QB.... I'd venture to say Q11's were overcrowded during the green lines days.... Now, 11's are still crowded, but not overcrowded.... Q11 for the most part aint any less crowded with the Q21 having been extended to QB.....

 

I get the gist of what you're saying though, and agree 100%....

The addition of stops on the Q53 along woodhaven affected Q11 ridership more than the Q21 extension to QB did....

Edited September 29, 2012 by B35 via Church

[Mysterious2train]

The MTA has reduced Woodhaven Blvd local service, but the Q21 isn't responsible, it just allowed the MTA to do it more sneakily. I mean, before the Q21 was extended there were Q11 short-turns to Pitkin Av all day long, as the MTA just combined the Q11 short-turns with the Q21 trips. With that in mind, the improvement in Limited service is a better answer for the MTA reducing service (and ridership diving on the Q11) than the Q21 extension, like the others said.

 

As for Q52 vs. Q53, Gotham Bus Co. said that the MTA likely wants to move some service from LaGuardia to Far Rockaway Depot, which isn't confirmed or anything but makes sense. The Q53 right now is out of LaGuardia which is effectively the 'wrong end' of the route while the 52 is from Far Rockaway. If this keeps up, I wonder if we'll see some Q52 trips to Woodside. As is right now, cutting Q53 service hurts customers between the Mall and Woodside and Rockaway Park, and sending Q52 trips to Woodside as there are more and more 52 trips added and less 53 trips would 'rectify' the self-created crowding issues. But you'll also have too little service to Rockaway Park if this keeps up, and possibly too much service to Arverne.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Mysterious2train

[Far Rock Depot]

I don't see a "hurt" in Q11's ridership because of the Q21/Q52/53 combo. I see a help of overcrowding and spread of terminals between the routes. ABTS isn't completed yet. I see a slow surge of riders on the 52 in the years to come. As far as the Q11 to the airport, do we really need another JFK route? And if you eliminate the 21, what about lindenwood? I do see a possibility of the 21 serving Hamilton beach. Overall, the current combo of Q11/21 local and Q52/53 Ltd is a HUGE improvement since the days of Q11 local and non-stop Q53 service from 7 years ago. Passengers are not only more spread out between the routes to help with individual buses being overcrowded, butbalso provides service patterns that are similar to how subway trunk lines operate.

[B35 via Church]

Overall, the current combo of Q11/21 local and Q52/53 Ltd is a HUGE improvement since the days of Q11 local and non-stop Q53 service from 7 years ago.

 

I don't think it can be put anymore cut & dry than that.... Well said.

[qjtransitmaster]

MTA basically perfected woodhaven blvd bus service. No need to change it plus is not in dire need of SBS Q53/52 and even Q11 leave many cars in the dust. I was on a Q52 we made many drivers look slow even Q11 buses were smokin the motorists DAMN!!!

Edited September 30, 2012 by qjtransitmaster

[Q43LTD]

I think the Q102 could use some streamlining in Astoria, but that's about it

[Guest MTA Bus]

Q66 Limited: Runs from Flushing to L.I City.

Hours of Operation: 6:00 A.M to 9:00 AM & 3:00 P.M to 8:00 P.M

Runs Monday - Friday

 

Hopefully, it will turn out like the Q52.

[Q43LTD]

What are the stops?

[aemoreira81]

A move I would make is extending the Q12 and Q15 (since they come into Flushing on Roosevelt Avenue) by one stop to the shopping mall at College Point Boulevard and Roosevelt Avenue...it would be cost-neutral because it wowuld eliminate some turns on crowded streets and for first and last trips, deadhead distance would be reduced. The last stop and first stop would be on the west side of College Point Boulevard...you can make a U-turn just beyond it when the 7 train emerges, or a bus can make the 3-minute deadhead to Stengel Depot.

[mzxeternal]

My Ideas, mostly centered around North-East Queens.

 

Existing

Q12 - New Limited Service added serving major intersections up to Bell Blvd, local to City Line

Q13- Same

Q15 - Eliminate 15A, restore original service pattern. See my plans for Q34

Q17 - Same.

Q20A/B - Q20B Rerouted to cover previous Q74 route, then via Queens Blvd to Jamaica Weekdays.

Q25 - Reduce 1 bus hourly 8am-11pm weekends for substitution on Q34. Limited Buses run non-stop from Main Street to Queens College.

Q26 - Eliminate existing, recycle number into new line (See below)

Q27 - Limited runs via Parsons Blvd (Q26 Routing, no stops), bypassing Kissena Blvd bottleneck. Non-Limited the Same.

Q28 - New Limited Stop Service, Rush Hours Only (Non-Stop Between Francis Lewis Blvd and Main Street)

Q30 - Reinstate Overnight Service, Terminus shifted from LIE and Little Neck Blvd to Northern Blvd to partially replace Q79 and provide transfer to Q12, N20/21

Q31 - Reinstate Weekend Service hourly

Q34 - Extend from existing terminal at 149th Street & Willets Point down 149th Street to previous Q14 terminal, replaces Q14 with similar service (34 from Main Street to it's terminal is very similar to old Q14). Run hourly on Weekends to replace Q14/Q15A, or Twice an Hour in the pattern of the current weeknight Main Street only Shuttle.

Q44 - Institute SBS Service

Q48 - Eliminate all Roosevelt Avenue Stops excluding 111th Street and Roosevelt Avenue. Stops on Roosevelt Avenue are redundant to existing 7 Train service.

Q88 - New Limited Service, Rush Hours and Evenings along LIE corridor only

 

New Service

Q26 LIMITED Loop Service - Main Street Flushing - 164 St, Horace Harding Expressway, Weekday Rush Hours (Serves Kissena Blvd in Flushing Only.)

 

Stops at only:

Main Street/Roosevelt Avenue

Kissena Blvd &

Beech Avenue/Cherry Avenue,

Holly Avenue,

Rose Avenue,

Long Island Expressway/Queens College

Then a final stop at 164 and LIE, where the bus can turn around at 164th Street and loop back in the reverse direction.

 

Considering the high volume of passengers at these few stops along the heavily traveled Kissena Blvd corridor heading to and from Main Street Station, this line could speed up commutes on Q17/25/34/27 to/from Main Street Significantly. Extending this line one more Limited Stop further to Utopia Parkway may make sense as well, considering the volume of Students traveling to/from Francis Lewis High School.

[mzxeternal]

A move I would make is extending the Q12 and Q15 (since they come into Flushing on Roosevelt Avenue) by one stop to the shopping mall at College Point Boulevard and Roosevelt Avenue...it would be cost-neutral because it wowuld eliminate some turns on crowded streets and for first and last trips, deadhead distance would be reduced. The last stop and first stop would be on the west side of College Point Boulevard...you can make a U-turn just beyond it when the 7 train emerges, or a bus can make the 3-minute deadhead to Stengel Depot.

 

 

I like this idea, except for the U-Turn which I couldn't see being realistic, they would probably have to go to the depot and turn around there, or Terminate at the South-East Corner of Roosevelt Ave/College Pt. Blvd, and turn up one of the side streets to turn around. I also like it more for the Q12, since it's a more used and more frequent route. Q15 schedule is terrible, and they cut it further despite it being tasked to replace the Q14 as well.

Edited October 31, 2012 by mzxeternal

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

My Ideas, mostly centered around North-East Queens.

 

Existing

Q12 - New Limited Service added serving major intersections up to Bell Blvd, local to City Line

I don't think it's really needed since it does fine as it is.

Q13- Same

Q15 - Eliminate 15A, restore original service pattern. See my plans for Q34

looking to see

Q17 - Same.

Q20A/B - Q20B Rerouted to cover previous Q74 route, then via Queens Blvd to Jamaica Weekdays.

The only problem I have with this is the fact that south of Union Turnpike up to Queens Blvd will have an uneven headway. I would restore the Q74 and make it terminate at the Q58 bus stop near the flushing LIRR

Q25 - Reduce 1 bus hourly 8am-11pm weekends for substitution on Q34. Limited Buses run non-stop from Main Street to Queens College.

taking away all those intermidiate stops would just make the limited bus less packed and the local more packed, in which can turn into an n6 problem

Q26 - Eliminate existing, recycle number into new line (See below)

Q27 - Limited runs via Parsons Blvd (Q26 Routing, no stops), bypassing Kissena Blvd bottleneck. Non-Limited the Same.

If that's the case, don't reroute the local from Kissena. Just the limited

Q28 - New Limited Stop Service, Rush Hours Only (Non-Stop Between Francis Lewis Blvd and Main Street)

I don't think this is needed. Usually the Q28 during rush hours is SRO to standee loading. Especially when it's skipping so many stops its not needed

Q30 - Reinstate Overnight Service, Terminus shifted from LIE and Little Neck Blvd to Northern Blvd to partially replace Q79 and provide transfer to Q12, N20/21

well the Q36 is going to replace the Little Neck Portion of the old Q79, and I'll let other people comment on late night service

Q31 - Reinstate Weekend Service hourly

Honestly Saturday service would probably come back. Not sure about Sunday. I would make the 31 half hourly so that it won't make it harder for riders to catch the bus ( like they did to the Q76)

Q34 - Extend from existing terminal at 149th Street & Willets Point down 149th Street to previous Q14 terminal, replaces Q14 with similar service (34 from Main Street to it's terminal is very similar to old Q14). Run hourly on Weekends to replace Q14/Q15A, or Twice an Hour in the pattern of the current weeknight Main Street only Shuttle.

 

Well considering that those riders will have a one seat ride to JAM, that could be for the better

Q44 - Institute SBS Service

well this is being thought of , but what will happen to the Bronx Stops

Q48 - Eliminate all Roosevelt Avenue Stops excluding 111th Street and Roosevelt Avenue. Stops on Roosevelt Avenue are redundant to existing 7 Train service.

eliminating these stops will mean that ridership would be lost. There's plenty of riders that transfer from the Q48. Leave it there since its an airport route.

Q88 - New Limited Service, Rush Hours and Evenings along LIE corridor only

I'll agree with limited service rush hours in the peak direction. Those school trippers can be limited stop buses. I'd start it off during the off peak direction on weekdays

New Service

Q26 LIMITED Loop Service - Main Street Flushing - 164 St, Horace Harding Expressway, Weekday Rush Hours (Serves Kissena Blvd in Flushing Only.)

 

Stops at only:

Main Street/Roosevelt Avenue

Kissena Blvd &

Beech Avenue/Cherry Avenue,

Holly Avenue,

Rose Avenue,

Long Island Expressway/Queens College

Then a final stop at 164 and LIE, where the bus can turn around at 164th Street and loop back in the reverse direction.

 

Considering the high volume of passengers at these few stops along the heavily traveled Kissena Blvd corridor heading to and from Main Street Station, this line could speed up commutes on Q17/25/34/27 to/from Main Street Significantly. Extending this line one more Limited Stop further to Utopia Parkway may make sense as well, considering the volume of Students traveling to/from Francis Lewis High School.

I think the current system in the area can use some improvement, but it doesn't need a new route

 

 

Replies in bold.

[Q43LTD]

I would add a LTD stop on the Q10 at 109 Av for transfers to the Q41

[T J Trainman]

That would be nice to see some Q-66 LTDs happening down the line That damn line needs it. But for now its not going to happen. I will contact one of sources about this. Once I get a response. I will post it.

[JFK Depot]

A reroute of the Q7 and have that go into the Airport to the Post Office

Q6 split runs going to Farmers Blvd and going to Terminal 4 via 150th St

 

Q111 LIMITED to Francis Lewis Blvd...

Add on more runs to the short trips to Farmers Blvd and 140th Ave

Create a new short trip to 243rd St/Huxley

 

Q113/Q113 LIMITED remain the same

 

 

[qjtransitmaster]

Q66 short turns can become locals while all other or most other trips can turn into LTDs.

[qjtransitmaster]

Will Q88 LTD at rush hour help?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

Hell yeah. Both off peak and peak direction those buses are full and some crush loaded.

 

 

Will Q88 LTD at rush hour help?

 

He'll yeah. Both off peak and peak direction those buses are full and some crush loaded.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Q23 Central Terminal

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well IMO the Q34 should run on Saturdays but not combined with the 15A. It should run every 60 minutes on weekends and end it around 8 PM. Also should the Q34 service to Jamaoca terminate at 8:15 PM on weekdays

 

 

 

Some other ideas

 

Q59: This Idea I'm neutral with, but should it terminate at Woodhaven or Grand Avenue off peak, since ridership isn't that strong past Grand Avenue, or can it be extended to 71 Avenue to Help out the 60, since there are people who take the 60 between Grand Avenue and 71 Avenue somewhere along the route.

[Threxx]

A revised version of my Q38 split:

 

https://maps.google....075326,0.154324

 

The Penelope Avenue branch of the Q38 was extended to the 111th Street station for a second subway connection and coverage of the area around the NY Hall of Science.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Threxx

[qjtransitmaster]

He'll yeah. Both off peak and peak direction those buses are full and some crush loaded.

 

I had a feeling that was the case MWAHHAHAHAHA. I have a sneaky idea that uses existing resources to cut down operating costs based on how empty some buses are and full the paralleled line next to it is thank you for confirming my theory.