B35 via Church Posted October 3, 2013 Share #2576 Posted October 3, 2013 I already admitted that I am not perfect.... I see many factors go into such a task. I guess the modified formats are just doomsday control. No one is perfect.... Thing is, you don't seem like you've actually picked up on anything anyone has told you on this site..... You make statements like "I see many factors go into such a task", "I did notice that interesting", etc. etc., but there is a complete & total disconnect between your words & your actions..... There's no merit to your words; they are empty.... And this is no attack or anything like that either, so don't come to me with that crap..... Everyone is trying to respect your opinions and thoughts and are giving their own rebuttals as to why x, y and z won't work. This.... since day one of this guy's arrival (from me at least).... He wants to paint this picture that puts him in the most innocent of lights - Everyone is solely just attacking him & not giving their criticisms of his suggestions..... This is only done when his suggestions aren't agreed with..... I see that as a indirect shaming tactic, and I'm not gonna be silenced into accepting, or pander to someone saying something I do not agree with.... That is not how discussion forums are (supposed to) work, and it is sure as hell not how offline (or "real life", as it's dubbed) discussions take place..... Quite honestly, I think I've been far too patient with the guy... I'm not into the whole using the ignore feature or w/e, but if it comes to that...... It wasn't the idea that was bad, it was the fact that he acted like a lot of people in Eastern Queens wanted their bus routes extended to Westchester Square, or Wakefield, or whatever neighborhood in the Bronx happened to be the flavor of the day. Then he would get all defensive when asked to provide proof, leading to an argument like the one preceding this. I actually do think an idea of sorts is bad (for all reasons explained in prior discussions regarding it - including those of which that preceeded QJT's particular Throgs neck bridge route or w/e)..... But as it pertains to this particular discussion/debate/shitstorm, you're right - It was the added shit that exacerbated matters... The defensiveness is gonna come, I'll be fair... but it was the falsities & the evasiveness that did/does it for me... This is how you know someone is on BS.... I don't even get all too heavy on the "proff" (proof) stuff (like ridership stats & stuff like that - I don't need stats to tell me, for example, that the Q58 carries heavy throughout the day), but it's the blatant lies that insults intelligence (talking about there is demand for NE Queens - Bronx state & Calvary hospitals).... I mean come on.... As judge judy used to say... Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining! Extend the Q27 to the Q5/N4 Extend the Q4 to Elmont Rd Well at least we're off this whole throgs neck thing (for now at least) However... I don't know how many times I've seen both of these suggested over the years, but I guess I'll oblige..... - The Q27 to Merrick quite frankly, I've been tired of hearing about (since it was rumored/"studied" to do as such).... To me, it seems arbitrary as hell to end 27's there, the Q27 is already a superroute enough as it is, and it would go about rendering the Q77 to being almost useless.... - The Q4 to Elmont.... I'm really not seeing what is there to gain by having Q4's do this. I honestly don't believe having it connect to the N1 would be worth it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share #2577 Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) The Q27 should have stayed at Queens Village LIRR. Merrick looks like a bad place to turn buses around. I mean was it really that bad to put a bus on Springfield? Same goes for the Q4 to Elmont. It just looks like a bad place to turn buses around. In addition to potential community opposition. Edited October 3, 2013 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted October 3, 2013 Share #2578 Posted October 3, 2013 But as it pertains to this particular discussion/debate/shitstorm, you're right - It was the added shit that exacerbated matters... The defensiveness is gonna come, I'll be fair... but it was the falsities & the evasiveness that did/does it for me... This is how you know someone is on BS.... I don't even get all too heavy on the "proff" (proof) stuff (like ridership stats & stuff like that - I don't need stats to tell me, for example, that the Q58 carries heavy throughout the day), but it's the blatant lies that insults intelligence (talking about there is demand for NE Queens - Bronx state & Calvary hospitals).... I mean come on.... As judge judy used to say... Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining! Well at least we're off this whole throgs neck thing (for now at least) However... I don't know how many times I've seen both of these suggested over the years, but I guess I'll oblige..... - The Q27 to Merrick quite frankly, I've been tired of hearing about (since it was rumored/"studied" to do as such).... To me, it seems arbitrary as hell to end 27's there, the Q27 is already a superroute enough as it is, and it would go about rendering the Q77 to being almost useless.... - The Q4 to Elmont.... I'm really not seeing what is there to gain by having Q4's do this. I honestly don't believe having it connect to the N1 would be worth it... Ok I can understand that, I remember him saying that the cars going north on the Wantagh parkway in the mornings were headed to LIJ. Anyway. A Q27 links the eastern side of Queens. the bus network sucks and does not allow for connectivity. If I want to go to Green Acres Mall from the QV LIRR Station I have to take the Q27 to 120th Ave, Wait for the crappy Q77, which doesn't run on Sundays either, and then transfer to the Q5 or Q85. If I'm on Linden Blvd and 225th Street I cant take the Q4 and easily transfer to the N1. I could walk from the terminal at the parkway to Elmont Road though. I'm not even sure if that transfer works with PPR cards. Or take the Q4, Q27, Q5/85 or take the Q4 back to Merrick and then the Q5. Again, the Queens bus network sucks. Nassau may be a separate county but transportation doesn't have to be completely segregated. This is another reason why people would rather drive. They want more people to use mass transit? make it useful.. The Q27 should have stayed at Queens Village LIRR. Merrick looks like a bad place to turn buses around. I mean was it really that bad to put a bus on Springfield? Same goes for the Q4 to Elmont. It just looks like a bad place to turn buses around. In addition to potential community opposition. They don't have to turn the Q27 at 120th they could turn it with the Q77, hell the Q27 and Q77 could swap terminals. Perhaps the Q27 (or another route) should become an outer loop/horseshoe, similar to the Q17 is like an inner loop. It would connect to the northern Queens, down Springfield, then back to Jamaica or even the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted October 3, 2013 Share #2579 Posted October 3, 2013 Q26 (route revision) and Q27. The Q26 is currently a rush-hour only route, and the route currently has no unique market except for service to Flushing Hospital and along the northern part of Hollis Court Boulevard (47 Avenue to Francis Lewis Boulevard). The Q27 is scheduled to be a 70-minute route during the peak period for trips that run the entire length. On weekdays, the busiest section of the route is that between CUNY QCC and Flushing, with significant ridership being only between those two points. As such, I would rework the Q26 and Q27 as follows. with the major aim being to segregate QCC riders from other riders. 1. Q26 - service along Parsons Boulevard (past Flushing Hospital) discontinued) Instead, it becomes a variant of the Q27. Instead, the Q26 would act as a short-turn of the Q27, running along Kissena Boulevard, Holly Avenue, 46 Avenue, and along part of Hollis Court Boulevard. On the eastern end, the Q26 would leave its route at 53 Avenue, and then travel along 53 Avenue to Oceania Street, Oceania Street to 56 Avenue, and then along 56 Avenue to CUNY QCC. After leaving CUNY QCC, the Q26 would then travel via Springfield Boulevard, 69 Avenue, 224 Street, and 67 Avenue, terminus at 233 Street and 67 Avenue (against Alley Pond Park) Return to Flushing via a turnaround of 233 Street, 64 Avenue, and Cloverdale Boulevard to 67 Avenue and the same route. Midday service and early evening service would be added, to run from 6 AM to 9 PM, weekdays only. This would also restore service to an area cut in the 2010 service cuts, as well as catch a bigger footprint in southern Bayside. 2. Q27 - Limited service would be expanded to run all day when the Q26 runs between Utopia Parkway and Flushing on weekdays, from Flushing to Bell Boulevard. The following Limited stops would be added: 190 Street (westbound only), Oceania/Corporal Kennedy Streets, and all stops east of Bell Boulevard. The Q31 would serve the local stops, and a transfer would be available to the Q27 Limited as part of a 3-legged transfer from the Q31 to the Q27 to the or any route serving Flushing-Main Street. During the midday, alternate Q27 trips would start or end at Jamaica Avenue. Return via same route. 3. A new Q27X service would be instituted---making only two stops in Flushing - Main Street-Flushing, and Queens Library/Sanford Avenue, operating non-stop via Sanford Avenue and Northern Boulevard to CUNY QCC, and then all local stops to Cambria Heights. Return via same route. When the Q26 runs, there would be no Q27 local service. All service would operate to Flushing via the reverse path. Additionally, I propose a revision to the QM5 and QM8 routes to serve Oakland Gardens more directly in both directions. Westbound, both routes would turn off West Alley Road at 233 Street by making a left, and travel via 64 Avenue, Cloverdale Boulevard, 67 Avenue, 224 Street, and 69 Avenue before arriving at Springfield Boulevard. (Reverse trips would work the same way. The Q26 stops would be used, and there would be an additional stop at 233 Street and 64 Avenue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted October 3, 2013 Share #2580 Posted October 3, 2013 Q26 (route revision) and Q27. The Q26 is currently a rush-hour only route, and the route currently has no unique market except for service to Flushing Hospital and along the northern part of Hollis Court Boulevard (47 Avenue to Francis Lewis Boulevard). The Q27 is scheduled to be a 70-minute route during the peak period for trips that run the entire length. On weekdays, the busiest section of the route is that between CUNY QCC and Flushing, with significant ridership being only between those two points. As such, I would rework the Q26 and Q27 as follows. with the major aim being to segregate QCC riders from other riders. 1. Q26 - service along Parsons Boulevard (past Flushing Hospital) discontinued) Instead, it becomes a variant of the Q27. Instead, the Q26 would act as a short-turn of the Q27, running along Kissena Boulevard, Holly Avenue, 46 Avenue, and along part of Hollis Court Boulevard. On the eastern end, the Q26 would leave its route at 53 Avenue, and then travel along 53 Avenue to Oceania Street, Oceania Street to 56 Avenue, and then along 56 Avenue to CUNY QCC. After leaving CUNY QCC, the Q26 would then travel via Springfield Boulevard, 69 Avenue, 224 Street, and 67 Avenue, terminus at 233 Street and 67 Avenue (against Alley Pond Park) Return to Flushing via a turnaround of 233 Street, 64 Avenue, and Cloverdale Boulevard to 67 Avenue and the same route. Midday service and early evening service would be added, to run from 6 AM to 9 PM, weekdays only. This would also restore service to an area cut in the 2010 service cuts, as well as catch a bigger footprint in southern Bayside. 2. Q27 - Limited service would be expanded to run all day when the Q26 runs between Utopia Parkway and Flushing on weekdays, from Flushing to Bell Boulevard. The following Limited stops would be added: 190 Street (westbound only), Oceania/Corporal Kennedy Streets, and all stops east of Bell Boulevard. The Q31 would serve the local stops, and a transfer would be available to the Q27 Limited as part of a 3-legged transfer from the Q31 to the Q27 to the or any route serving Flushing-Main Street. During the midday, alternate Q27 trips would start or end at Jamaica Avenue. Return via same route. 3. A new Q27X service would be instituted---making only two stops in Flushing - Main Street-Flushing, and Queens Library/Sanford Avenue, operating non-stop via Sanford Avenue and Northern Boulevard to CUNY QCC, and then all local stops to Cambria Heights. Return via same route. When the Q26 runs, there would be no Q27 local service. All service would operate to Flushing via the reverse path. Additionally, I propose a revision to the QM5 and QM8 routes to serve Oakland Gardens more directly in both directions. Westbound, both routes would turn off West Alley Road at 233 Street by making a left, and travel via 64 Avenue, Cloverdale Boulevard, 67 Avenue, 224 Street, and 69 Avenue before arriving at Springfield Boulevard. (Reverse trips would work the same way. The Q26 stops would be used, and there would be an additional stop at 233 Street and 64 Avenue. The Q27 does not need any more short turns or variations, and the maximum amount of buses that could possibly run on Holly/46 are already running (Holly is only one lane wide, but a two-way street.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share #2581 Posted October 4, 2013 Ok I can understand that, I remember him saying that the cars going north on the Wantagh parkway in the mornings were headed to LIJ. Anyway. A Q27 links the eastern side of Queens. the bus network sucks and does not allow for connectivity. If I want to go to Green Acres Mall from the QV LIRR Station I have to take the Q27 to 120th Ave, Wait for the crappy Q77, which doesn't run on Sundays either, and then transfer to the Q5 or Q85. If I'm on Linden Blvd and 225th Street I cant take the Q4 and easily transfer to the N1. I could walk from the terminal at the parkway to Elmont Road though. I'm not even sure if that transfer works with PPR cards. Or take the Q4, Q27, Q5/85 or take the Q4 back to Merrick and then the Q5. Again, the Queens bus network sucks. Nassau may be a separate county but transportation doesn't have to be completely segregated. This is another reason why people would rather drive. They want more people to use mass transit? make it useful.. They don't have to turn the Q27 at 120th they could turn it with the Q77, hell the Q27 and Q77 could swap terminals. Perhaps the Q27 (or another route) should become an outer loop/horseshoe, similar to the Q17 is like an inner loop. It would connect to the northern Queens, down Springfield, then back to Jamaica or even the . No. Swapping terminals with the 27 and 77 will make the 27 even more unreliable. Transfers between the Q4 and N1 are allowed with pay per rides and paper transfers. You know you can take the 27 to Hempstead Avenue for the N1 during rush hours. Other times N6 to the N1 or walk to Hempstead. The 77 is slated to get Sunday service next year. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted October 4, 2013 Share #2582 Posted October 4, 2013 No one is perfect.... Thing is, you don't seem like you've actually picked up on anything anyone has told you on this site..... You make statements like "I see many factors go into such a task", "I did notice that interesting", etc. etc., but there is a complete & total disconnect between your words & your actions..... There's no merit to your words; they are empty.... And this is no attack or anything like that either, so don't come to me with that crap..... This.... since day one of this guy's arrival (from me at least).... He wants to paint this picture that puts him in the most innocent of lights - Everyone is solely just attacking him & not giving their criticisms of his suggestions..... This is only done when his suggestions aren't agreed with..... I see that as a indirect shaming tactic, and I'm not gonna be silenced into accepting, or pander to someone saying something I do not agree with.... That is not how discussion forums are (supposed to) work, and it is sure as hell not how offline (or "real life", as it's dubbed) discussions take place..... Quite honestly, I think I've been far too patient with the guy... I'm not into the whole using the ignore feature or w/e, but if it comes to that...... I actually do think an idea of sorts is bad (for all reasons explained in prior discussions regarding it - including those of which that preceeded QJT's particular Throgs neck bridge route or w/e)..... But as it pertains to this particular discussion/debate/shitstorm, you're right - It was the added shit that exacerbated matters... The defensiveness is gonna come, I'll be fair... but it was the falsities & the evasiveness that did/does it for me... This is how you know someone is on BS.... I don't even get all too heavy on the "proff" (proof) stuff (like ridership stats & stuff like that - I don't need stats to tell me, for example, that the Q58 carries heavy throughout the day), but it's the blatant lies that insults intelligence (talking about there is demand for NE Queens - Bronx state & Calvary hospitals).... I mean come on.... As judge judy used to say... Don't pee on my leg & tell me it's raining! Well at least we're off this whole throgs neck thing (for now at least) However... I don't know how many times I've seen both of these suggested over the years, but I guess I'll oblige..... - The Q27 to Merrick quite frankly, I've been tired of hearing about (since it was rumored/"studied" to do as such).... To me, it seems arbitrary as hell to end 27's there, the Q27 is already a superroute enough as it is, and it would go about rendering the Q77 to being almost useless.... - The Q4 to Elmont.... I'm really not seeing what is there to gain by having Q4's do this. I honestly don't believe having it connect to the N1 would be worth it... I see Q4 to Belmont I think he means to elmont rd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 4, 2013 Share #2583 Posted October 4, 2013 I see Q4 to Belmont I think he means to elmont rd. Yeah, I know he means elmont rd.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 5, 2013 Share #2584 Posted October 5, 2013 Ok I can understand that, I remember him saying that the cars going north on the Wantagh parkway in the mornings were headed to LIJ. Anyway. A Q27 links the eastern side of Queens. the bus network sucks and does not allow for connectivity. If I want to go to Green Acres Mall from the QV LIRR Station I have to take the Q27 to 120th Ave, Wait for the crappy Q77, which doesn't run on Sundays either, and then transfer to the Q5 or Q85. If I'm on Linden Blvd and 225th Street I cant take the Q4 and easily transfer to the N1. I could walk from the terminal at the parkway to Elmont Road though. I'm not even sure if that transfer works with PPR cards. Or take the Q4, Q27, Q5/85 or take the Q4 back to Merrick and then the Q5. Again, the Queens bus network sucks. Nassau may be a separate county but transportation doesn't have to be completely segregated. This is another reason why people would rather drive. They want more people to use mass transit? make it useful.. Yes, the bus network is incomplete.... However, the network in SE Queens is the way it is so that folks can get to/from Jamaica.... This is what those folks wanted many moons ago & they got it.... Just looking at how indirect the Q77 (speaking of which) is, is enough proof of that... Your gripe here is that getting to Green Acres from within SE Queens is a PITA, yeah I get it.... However, this does not mean you should opt to extend an already busy route like the Q27 (which is indirect enough, coming from as far as Flushing, transporting the masses that it does)..... I will say that the Q4 extension makes more sense than a Q27 extension of sorts - My thing is, I just do not see SE Queens folks riding to Elmont (Elmont ROAD, QJT.... Elmont ROAD) to xfer to the N1 (which is infrequent as it is) to get to some Green Acres.... As much as it sucks, you can't fix every "hole" there is in the network.... I find it unfair that you're using this example (direct SE Queens - Green Acres travel) as to why mass transit isn't as useful..... Q26 (route revision) and Q27. The Q26 is currently a rush-hour only route, and the route currently has no unique market except for service to Flushing Hospital and along the northern part of Hollis Court Boulevard (47 Avenue to Francis Lewis Boulevard). The Q27 is scheduled to be a 70-minute route during the peak period for trips that run the entire length. On weekdays, the busiest section of the route is that between CUNY QCC and Flushing, with significant ridership being only between those two points. As such, I would rework the Q26 and Q27 as follows. with the major aim being to segregate QCC riders from other riders. 1. Q26 - service along Parsons Boulevard (past Flushing Hospital) discontinued) Instead, it becomes a variant of the Q27. Instead, the Q26 would act as a short-turn of the Q27, running along Kissena Boulevard, Holly Avenue, 46 Avenue, and along part of Hollis Court Boulevard. On the eastern end, the Q26 would leave its route at 53 Avenue, and then travel along 53 Avenue to Oceania Street, Oceania Street to 56 Avenue, and then along 56 Avenue to CUNY QCC. After leaving CUNY QCC, the Q26 would then travel via Springfield Boulevard, 69 Avenue, 224 Street, and 67 Avenue, terminus at 233 Street and 67 Avenue (against Alley Pond Park) Return to Flushing via a turnaround of 233 Street, 64 Avenue, and Cloverdale Boulevard to 67 Avenue and the same route. Midday service and early evening service would be added, to run from 6 AM to 9 PM, weekdays only. This would also restore service to an area cut in the 2010 service cuts, as well as catch a bigger footprint in southern Bayside. 2. Q27 - Limited service would be expanded to run all day when the Q26 runs between Utopia Parkway and Flushing on weekdays, from Flushing to Bell Boulevard. The following Limited stops would be added: 190 Street (westbound only), Oceania/Corporal Kennedy Streets, and all stops east of Bell Boulevard. The Q31 would serve the local stops, and a transfer would be available to the Q27 Limited as part of a 3-legged transfer from the Q31 to the Q27 to the or any route serving Flushing-Main Street. During the midday, alternate Q27 trips would start or end at Jamaica Avenue. Return via same route. 3. A new Q27X service would be instituted---making only two stops in Flushing - Main Street-Flushing, and Queens Library/Sanford Avenue, operating non-stop via Sanford Avenue and Northern Boulevard to CUNY QCC, and then all local stops to Cambria Heights. Return via same route. When the Q26 runs, there would be no Q27 local service. All service would operate to Flushing via the reverse path. Additionally, I propose a revision to the QM5 and QM8 routes to serve Oakland Gardens more directly in both directions. Westbound, both routes would turn off West Alley Road at 233 Street by making a left, and travel via 64 Avenue, Cloverdale Boulevard, 67 Avenue, 224 Street, and 69 Avenue before arriving at Springfield Boulevard. (Reverse trips would work the same way. The Q26 stops would be used, and there would be an additional stop at 233 Street and 64 Avenue. 1 - I partially agree with this.... Although I'd leave the Q26 exactly as it is, east of Utopia (don't need anymore vehicles clogging up Kissena in that general area), suggested myself that the Q26 run between flushing & QCC before..... Probably get to flushing proper faster from the east (compared to the 27) anyway.... However, extending it to Oakland Gdns (the immediate area the old Q75 served) I do not agree with.... Mind you, those folks did not want Flushing, they wanted Jamaica - so sending Q26's of sorts there would be much ado about nothing.... 2 - I don't get the overall point of this; the Q27 & the Q31 have nothing to do with each other.... 3- lol @ trying to structure the Q27 like NICE's 'x' variants.... Fact of the matter is, the NICE routes travel longer distances (and sees less traffic lights w/i Nassau)... This means that the N6x & the N22x trips saves (much) more time over its local counterparts, than a "Q27x" would, over the Q27.... Dependent on time of day, running em on Northern won't be much different than having "Q27x's" running along the current Q27 routing nonstop b/w kissena/main/sanford area (the library) & QCC, en route to SE Queens.... You're underestimating how traffic bogged Northern can get during the rush.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK Depot Posted October 5, 2013 Share #2585 Posted October 5, 2013 All this bickering over the Q27 and Q77.... IMO extending the Q27 to Merrick would be overkill although I get the logic behind the move... It wouldn't make the Q77 obsolete... It would just give people the option of wanting to go to Flushing directly from Merrick Blvd w/o having to pass thru Jamaica Center... Maybe a NEW route which could be similar to the Q27... That can connect SE Queens and Flushing w/o going thru JC is needed.... I have another idea now this might sound far fetched but if you look on the Queens bus map... It will make sense.... Q111 to Green Acres.... Instead of terminating at Francis Lewis... Make that right onto Francis Lewis.. Proceed down to Hook Creek Blvd.. Left on to Hook Creek.. Hook Creek up to Sunrise Hwy.. Right on Sunrise and follow Q5/85 into Mall... I think 3 options to the Mall would work better in the long run Especially for those who live off Guy Brewer.. My next idea to send the Q7 to the Post Office in JFK... Right turn on 150th St... Take that str8 into Cargo Area.. Left turn on 150th Ave.. Go under JFK Expwy... Left turn on to N.Boundary Rd... Str8 to Post Office Send the Q6 to terminal 5 instead of Post Office 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2586 Posted October 6, 2013 No. Swapping terminals with the 27 and 77 will make the 27 even more unreliable. Transfers between the Q4 and N1 are allowed with pay per rides and paper transfers. You know you can take the 27 to Hempstead Avenue for the N1 during rush hours. Other times N6 to the N1 or walk to Hempstead. The 77 is slated to get Sunday service next year. I'm well aware of my transit options. I'm thinking about the times where I actually needed the bus to make trips like that, now I just drive , I get to the mall in about 15 mins. However, there were times where I used to work late in Lynbrook, I had to take the N4 to Jamaica, and the N6 back. If the q27 ran to Merrick, I would have taken that as a"shortcut". The N1, N25, N31/N32 weren't running that late. Speaking of which, perhaps the MTA should do like London and have Night bus routes. Also, on a map, taking the N6 to the N1 sounds practical, but in actuality, you should see how many people get flagged at Springfield Blvd on a daily basis. I would count at LEAST one full bus load. As for the Q77, will it run hourly on Sundays? it's a ghost town outside of rush hours. Yes, the bus network is incomplete.... However, the network in SE Queens is the way it is so that folks can get to/from Jamaica.... This is what those folks wanted many moons ago & they got it.... Just looking at how indirect the Q77 (speaking of which) is, is enough proof of that... Your gripe here is that getting to Green Acres from within SE Queens is a PITA, yeah I get it.... However, this does not mean you should opt to extend an already busy route like the Q27 (which is indirect enough, coming from as far as Flushing, transporting the masses that it does)..... I will say that the Q4 extension makes more sense than a Q27 extension of sorts - My thing is, I just do not see SE Queens folks riding to Elmont (Elmont ROAD, QJT.... Elmont ROAD) to xfer to the N1 (which is infrequent as it is) to get to some Green Acres.... As much as it sucks, you can't fix every "hole" there is in the network.... I find it unfair that you're using this example (direct SE Queens - Green Acres travel) as to why mass transit isn't as useful..... Those are valid examples, a shopping area as close as Green Acres is a chore to get to. Even 5 towns is a chore to get to, the Guy R Brewer Routes only cross the Q3. It's nice that the Buses are Manhattan centric, and the bus routes are subway feeders, but they should have a few alternatives at least connecting the "spokes". I can drive to the Northern Bronx in about 20 mins, by bus and subway takes 2 hours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2587 Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) All this bickering over the Q27 and Q77.... IMO extending the Q27 to Merrick would be overkill although I get the logic behind the move... It wouldn't make the Q77 obsolete... It would just give people the option of wanting to go to Flushing directly from Merrick Blvd w/o having to pass thru Jamaica Center... Maybe a NEW route which could be similar to the Q27... That can connect SE Queens and Flushing w/o going thru JC is needed.... Extending the Q27 to the current Q77 terminal would go about making the Q77 obsolete... The MTA would happily & easily kill off the 77 & force riders to have to xfer to any of the myriad of buses that runs to Jamaica from SE Queens.... The masses would pile onto Q27's, due to the fact that service, quite frankly, is more frequent than the Q77.... That's (part of) the logic behind extending the Q27 southward in the first place (better service than what the Q77 provides)..... Furthermore, all this so-called "bickering" over the two routes, but you're adding to it.... Those are valid examples, a shopping area as close as Green Acres is a chore to get to. Even 5 towns is a chore to get to, the Guy R Brewer Routes only cross the Q3. It's nice that the Buses are Manhattan centric, and the bus routes are subway feeders, but they should have a few alternatives at least connecting the "spokes"..... You mean the Trains are manhattan centric.... Anyway, Again, I understand that some areas within the same general area/region/whatever you wanna call it, are a PITA to get to, from that same general area/region, etc.... The problem with having other/some new route(s) connecting the SE Queens Jamaica feeders w/i SE Queens is that ppl. from other areas northward really aren't tryna get to SE Queens.... For example, this is the problem with combining the Q76/Q77 & having a "Francis Lewis" route (which has been suggested on here before).... Although I'd leave the Q26 exactly as it is, east of Utopia ....Should read WEST of utopia. Edited October 6, 2013 by B35 via Church 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N6 Limited Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2588 Posted October 6, 2013 Extending the Q27 to the current Q77 terminal would go about making the Q77 obsolete... The MTA would happily & easily kill off the 77 & force riders to have to xfer to any of the myriad of buses that runs to Jamaica from SE Queens.... The masses would pile onto Q27's, due to the fact that service, quite frankly, is more frequent than the Q77.... That's (part of) the logic behind extending the Q27 southward in the first place (better service than what the Q77 provides)..... Furthermore, all this so-called "bickering" over the two routes, but you're adding to it.... You mean the Trains are manhattan centric.... Anyway, Again, I understand that some areas within the same general area/region/whatever you wanna call it, are a PITA to get to, from that same general area/region, etc.... The problem with having other/some new route(s) connecting the SE Queens Jamaica feeders w/i SE Queens is that ppl. from other areas northward really aren't tryna get to SE Queens.... For example, this is the problem with combining the Q76/Q77 & having a "Francis Lewis" route (which has been suggested on here before).... ....Should read WEST of utopia. Yes I meant the subway is Manhattan centric. A Q27 would work because it's packed in the morning with kids going to HS on Hillside Ave, Riders could also use it to get to Springfield HS. It also connects to the subway, and a route's routing doesn't have to have ridership go terminal to terminal. How many riders take the Q3 from the Airport to the Jamaica Bus Terminal? NE Queens riders don't have to go to SE queens but riders from SE Queens may hed up north to connect to other bus routes including NICE routes. A Q76-77 route would be empty, they look lite most of the time anyway. and wouldn't connect to anything major. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2589 Posted October 6, 2013 The Q27 should remain the same as it is now. Why mess with the Q77 that serves its own purpose. Extending the Q27 to Springfield Gardens is like extending another long route like the Q58 to College Pt or Whitestone it's just too much. Also no one is going to spend more than an hour on a bus from SE Queens just to get to Flushing when they could go to Jamaica. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2590 Posted October 6, 2013 Yes I meant the subway is Manhattan centric. A Q27 would work because it's packed in the morning with kids going to HS on Hillside Ave, Riders could also use it to get to Springfield HS. It also connects to the subway, and a route's routing doesn't have to have ridership go terminal to terminal. How many riders take the Q3 from the Airport to the Jamaica Bus Terminal? NE Queens riders don't have to go to SE queens but riders from SE Queens may hed up north to connect to other bus routes including NICE routes. A Q76-77 route would be empty, they look lite most of the time anyway. and wouldn't connect to anything major. Never said anything about having riders ride terminal to terminal..... That's not what this discussion is about anyway (Flushing to SE Queens travel on the Q27).... So there goes that. No they don't have to ride from NE Queens to SE Queens, but what it's lookin like it boils down to is that you want to turn the Q27 into a "superroute" for your own selfish reasons... Just as long as the southern portion is extended further south to try to cram more riders onto an already (highly) useful route in its totality (with the initial basis of getting to green acres from w/i SE Queens easier), it's alright with you.... Never mind what such an extension would mean for the folks that utilize the route just as much, if not moreso, on the northern end of the route.... That is one reason why I brought up that point about NE Queens & SE Queens travel (or the lack of it).... The whole route has to be looked at (meaning, considered) when suggesting extensions/changes, not just the portion that would benefit You.... Again, The Q27 is long enough as it is, and gets a high amt. of ridership in the process to boot.... I mean, if you want to mar the route any further for the sake of increased coverage, well that's your prerogative.... I am not for having (an increase in) long ass routes (in general) in the system for that (and other, unlisted) reasons..... That is what I think the distant future of bus service in this city is gonna end up being like - a bunch of superroutes & your occasional dinky shuttle (B74, B42, B84, B32.... routes of that nature) here & there.... AFAIC, for the purpose of what you're stating be accomplished.... Instead of this bit about running Q27's down to Merrick or to Springfield/145th, the Q27 should be broken up - one route going from Flushing to LIRR QV (of course via QCC), and one route going from QCC to Merrick (or Springfield/145th).... Not that I'm proposing this, but I would side with that before I would side with extending the current Q27 that far south..... The gripe out of you is with the crappy Q77 (and rightfully & justifiably so), but to extend the Q27 over the that part of the Q77 routing is not fixing the problem - it's appending a band-aid on it.... Reliability has to account for something. Yeah, A Q76/Q77 combination route would have a decreased amt of ppl. on them.... You're not gonna get too many ppl from north (or south) of Francis Lewis willing to xfer at Hillside for Jamaica proper..... The Q27 should remain the same as it is now. Why mess with the Q77 that serves its own purpose. Extending the Q27 to Springfield Gardens is like extending another long route like the Q58 to College Pt or Whitestone it's just too much. Also no one is going to spend more than an hour on a bus from SE Queens just to get to Flushing when they could go to Jamaica. To be fair (unless I'm missing something), N6 isn't messing with the Q77 route.... The suggestion is to extend the Q27 over (more of) it. I'm saying that would have an adverse effect on the Q77 (which it would, which is why I also say both those routes should be left alone down there)..... But other than that, agreed.... good example btw; the Q27 & the Q58 I'd say does have similar usage levels (I didn't look at the stats, so I'm not saying anything's exact or w/e)... Anyway, have the Q58 run up to CP (the neighborhood) & that would be nothin short of nightmarish - ridership-wise & delays-wise.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share #2591 Posted October 6, 2013 Never said anything about having riders ride terminal to terminal..... That's not what this discussion is about anyway (Flushing to SE Queens travel on the Q27).... So there goes that. No they don't have to ride from NE Queens to SE Queens, but what it's lookin like it boils down to is that you want to turn the Q27 into a "superroute" for your own selfish reasons... Just as long as the southern portion is extended further south to try to cram more riders onto an already (highly) useful route in its totality (with the initial basis of getting to green acres from w/i SE Queens easier), it's alright with you.... Never mind what such an extension would mean for the folks that utilize the route just as much, if not moreso, on the northern end of the route.... That is one reason why I brought up that point about NE Queens & SE Queens travel (or the lack of it).... The whole route has to be looked at (meaning, considered) when suggesting extensions/changes, not just the portion that would benefit You.... Again, The Q27 is long enough as it is, and gets a high amt. of ridership in the process to boot.... I mean, if you want to mar the route any further for the sake of increased coverage, well that's your prerogative.... I am not for having (an increase in) long ass routes (in general) in the system for that (and other, unlisted) reasons..... That is what I think the distant future of bus service in this city is gonna end up being like - a bunch of superroutes & your occasional dinky shuttle (B74, B42, B84, B32.... routes of that nature) here & there.... AFAIC, for the purpose of what you're stating be accomplished.... Instead of this bit about running Q27's down to Merrick or to Springfield/145th, the Q27 should be broken up - one route going from Flushing to LIRR QV (of course via QCC), and one route going from QCC to Merrick (or Springfield/145th).... Not that I'm proposing this, but I would side with that before I would side with extending the current Q27 that far south..... The gripe out of you is with the crappy Q77 (and rightfully & justifiably so), but to extend the Q27 over the that part of the Q77 routing is not fixing the problem - it's appending a band-aid on it.... Reliability has to account for something. Yeah, A Q76/Q77 combination route would have a decreased amt of ppl. on them.... You're not gonna get too many ppl from north (or south) of Francis Lewis willing to xfer at Hillside for Jamaica proper..... To be fair (unless I'm missing something), N6 isn't messing with the Q77 route.... The suggestion is to extend the Q27 over (more of) it. I'm saying that would have an adverse effect on the Q77 (which it would, which is why I also say both those routes should be left alone down there)..... But other than that, agreed.... good example btw; the Q27 & the Q58 I'd say does have similar usage levels (I didn't look at the stats, so I'm not saying anything's exact or w/e)... Anyway, have the Q58 run up to CP (the neighborhood) & that would be nothin short of nightmarish - ridership-wise & delays-wise.... Here's one thing. N6 says he drives now. This shouldn't be an issue to him. This whole "the 77 is crappy" thing should be moot to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2592 Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) B35 via Church is a bitch... Yea I said it... Do something !!!!!! Tried to come at you like a man in PM & this is how you're gonna respond on the forums... And respond with some emotional e-thuggin ass response on top of it in PM.... Grow the f**k up. Here's one thing. N6 says he drives now. This shouldn't be an issue to him. This whole "the 77 is crappy" thing should be moot to him. I just got through PM-ing JFK Depot saying this - He's (N6 LTD) is making it about the Q27, when the "crappy" Q77 is the real issue.... Extending the Q27 does nothing positive for the Q77..... As far as him driving, I won't hold that against him..... Edited October 6, 2013 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2593 Posted October 6, 2013 JFK Depot says: Listen bro.... I see how you talk to people on here and I'm NOT with the disrespect...If you really looked at my post.... All I'm basically saying is it makes no sense to be going back and forth over the topic at hand....I suggested that maybe a NEW route is needed between Flushing and SE QueensOr extend the 27.... But if that's done then you say the 77 is obsoleteBut really it won't be tho.. As it is basically used by School Kids to get to and from Springfield High and IS 231.... And also the fact it goes to 165th instead of Parsons / Archer will keep it alive.... Just increase headways B35 via church says: Yeah, I'll hear you out man.... and my response is this: Look bro, I honestly don't care what you're "not with"... Don't shoot me a message of this magnitude like you're gonna actually DO something about how I convey my points on here - That's #1.... Secondly, If it's anyone that should be making an issue of disrespect, it should be anyone else that was talking about the Q27 & the Q77 before your condescending beginning statement in that discussion..... There was no need for that; you could've added to the discussion without saying that..... I don't see where I "disrespected" you in my reply to you in the first place... Bickering was the word you used to describe the back & forth discussion that was taking place - Which suggests that whatever's being talked about is senseless... If you're gonna come on here on some "all this bickering" nonsense, then you don't add to the actual discussion (or bickering as you put it) that's taking place.... That makes no sense at all.... THAT's what I was pointing out..... So miss me with this whole disrespect bit.... --------- Now about the Q27/Q77 discussion itself.... I didn't say anything about your NEW route b/w Flushing & SE Queens because quite honestly, I ignored that suggestion.... The discussion I was having was with N6 & his suggestion of extending the Q27 further south - That is where the disagreement lies.... I get your point about the Q77 not being obsolete (and I know the general riderbase of the Q77), but I simply don't agree that the MTA would keep the Q77 around if the Q27 were to be extended southward..... Yeah, the Q77 is a useful service for the myriad of school kids it serves, and I wouldn't wanna see that route perish for the sake of getting to some green acres easier (which was a point that N6 brought up)..... Although they should, The MTA is not about increasing options when it comes to bus service.... The train of thought when they need to trim their budget is to cut bus service first.... Extending the Q27 over more of the Q77 like that would be a good way for them to justify killing off that route, since the Q77 is one of the more lower utilized routes, system-wide.... Have what's being suggested with the Q27, the Q77 would become obsolete, due to the fact more ppl. would flock to the route that more service is offered on (which is the Q27).... Increasing service on the Q77 is a better suggestion than extending the Q27 to Merrick (or to Springfield/145th)... Problem with that is, I don't see the MTA doing that either.... N6 is making it about the Q27, when the problem is really with the Q77.... JFK Depot says I can do something about it... You have problem... We definitely link up and duke it out homieIm NOT the for your bullshit.... We can meet anywhere NO fear here since you feel you can come at people any type of wayI'll gladly slap the shit outta you... Think it's gameName your place faggot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share #2594 Posted October 6, 2013 What the hell's going on here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2595 Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Who's the one with the sideways response..... Comin on here butthurt because MF-ers don't see things his way. If the MF-er wanna come on here & embarrass himself, whatever.... Not engaging in a worthless flame war. What the hell's going on here? See my reply above. Edited October 6, 2013 by B35 via Church 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2596 Posted October 6, 2013 Keyboard warriors...keyboard warriors everywhere... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted October 6, 2013 Share #2597 Posted October 6, 2013 I wanna know how this even started, or should I not ask? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share #2598 Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) Nobody was bickering about anything. We were having a discussion about how extending the Q27 further south would kill off the Q77. I hope this stops before somebody gets suspended or worse case scenario, banned. Edited October 6, 2013 by Q43LTD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanarsie Guy Posted October 7, 2013 Share #2599 Posted October 7, 2013 Its always somebody speak there mind, with no regards to peoples feeling. Be a man and handle the check you mouth dishes out. To many emotional men on here...it seems now that somebody it tired of the whining u scared. Man up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted October 8, 2013 Share #2600 Posted October 8, 2013 On the Q27/Q77 part---if you extend the Q27 to 145 Road, unless the Q77 is then extended to Green Acres Mall, it becomes useless. However, I would ask, but not as a proposal per se...how would extending the Q77 to Green Acres work for the route? The Q27's Cambria Heights terminal would remain where it is, but the Q83 would have service extended down Springfield Boulevard to the schools at the southern end, providing a connection into Jamaica more centrally. (The branch to 227 Street would remain.) The Q77 would remain on Franny Lew to Conduit Avenue and then head to Green Acres. There would be new stops all along the route (as there is no bus route along much of the extension). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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