Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[Quill Depot]

I'm not thinking of building a line to the Bronx ever from SAS, that will attract more ridership causing crowded trains before the train reaches Manhattan. UES riders won't get the benefit of a train that has seats.

[mark1447]

As far as phase four, there was only one tunnel segment built. It's under the foot of the MannyB and it won't be used. It was never maintained and it's lined up for SAS scraping the walls at Grand. Since the updated plan has SAS under the current Grand st station, it won't be used.

And as GC said, SBS is not and will not be a factor as to whether or not subway lines get built.

 

 

MannyB = Manhattan Bridge right?

 

I don't see how a BRt is going to be the main reason to not bother with an SAS extension to the Bronx. I mean if the SAS phase 1-3/4 gets built, I don't see them bringing back the old M15 limited and dumping the M15sbs.

 

 

Besides that, who knows if the rest of Phase 3 and the rest would occur for years from now. We still got Phase II to put on this list. Also the M15+SBS would give riders an alternative ride to the SAS, and the SAS won't interline the BRT fully, only on the East Harlem/Upper East Side/Yorkville. The rest below 72nd, won't matter at this point.

Edited September 5, 2012 by mark1447

[mark1447]

Actress Suing MTA After She Was Forced Out Of Her Home For Second Ave. Subway Construction

 

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – A commercial actress said she was forced out of her apartment by the MTA and now wants them to pay her what they promised.

 

Sally Ardrey was in the Wisk commercials back in the 1970′s, where she said the famous phrase “ring around the collar” as she cleaned her husband’s shirt.

 

The 74-year-old grandmother has filed suit and said she wants the money promised to her by the MTA.

 

The New York Post reported this all began in 2009 when the MTA forced her out of her East 73rd Street rent-controlled apartment because of the Second Avenue subway construction project.

 

She said before moving into a non-rent controlled apartment on East 91st Street, the MTA promised a payment for $65,000 to help with the rent increases.

 

But the lawsuit filed by Ardrey said that payment never came.

 

She said she finds it hard to make ends meet every month.

 

The MTA said they are considering a settlement.

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/09/03/actress-suing-mta-after-she-was-forced-out-of-her-home-for-second-ave-subway-construction/

[Far Rock Depot]

@Mark yeah, MannyB is the Manhattan Bridge. You'll also find me calling the Williamsburg Bridge the WillyB and all three lower Manhattan bridges "BMW crossings".

[Metro CSW]

Don't know if this used yet but this is a interesting proposal for the future of Phase 3 and 4.

 

 

From http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com

[TheSubwayStation]

The problem with this idea is that I don't think the 2 Av line has enough capacity to run the number of trains necessary to serve all of these branches.

[CenSin]

Don't know if this used yet but this is a interesting proposal for the future of Phase 3 and 4.

 

 

From http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com

 

A lot of these possibilities have been discounted—some due to MTA studies showing that it's not possible or very infeasible.

[Wallyhorse]

The problem with this idea is that I don't think the 2 Av line has enough capacity to run the number of trains necessary to serve all of these branches.

 

The only ones I would do would be connecting the SAS to the Nassau Street line and via Montauge to Brooklyn since that would help the and a ton between 125th and Atlantic Avenue-Barclays and also to/from the Willy B via Essex, which would give Broadway-Brooklyn riders a full-time ride uptown.

[Brighton Express]

The only ones I would do would be connecting the SAS to the Nassau Street line and via Montauge to Brooklyn since that would help the and a ton between 125th and Atlantic Avenue-Barclays and also to/from the Willy B via Essex, which would give Broadway-Brooklyn riders a full-time ride uptown.

 

 

The thing I love about the Nassau St Line is the fact that it offers a connection to every line in the system, with the exception of the and various trains. This is why I constantly say that it needs an extension into Brooklyn.

[Far Rock Depot]

It had one and it was taken away. That line ever since say, the 80s, has never seen its full potential. But it's a perfect example of how ridership needs change multiple times over the years.

[Q10 Airport]

What I love about an extension into Brooklyn is that it gives the provision of filling in some serious service holes east of Nostrand. It's not likely to happen in the near future due to budget constraints, but at least the provision would be there.

[overclocked]

Would anyone happen to have the current station plans of the stations in construction, by no means I need a complete plan. I just want to see what type of the stations are planned, because after seeing this.

 

I for a second thought that we would have a pylon station (TUBE style).

But seeing photo below it makes me wonder if this space actually reserved for phase 3 connector.

 

 

So what's the truth?

[CenSin]

What I love about an extension into Brooklyn is that it gives the provision of filling in some serious service holes east of Nostrand. It's not likely to happen in the near future due to budget constraints, but at least the provision would be there.

 

I'm not sure about filling in Nostrand Avenue. The original tracks planned to extend there were the 6 Avenue express tracks and the 8 Avenue local tracks (and probably also the Williamsburg Bridge). 2 Avenue would have passed over the four 6 Avenue tracks at Houston Street and continued down to Battery Park.

[Brighton Express]

They really need to consider making it a 3T, 4T, or even 6T line in the later phases between 72 St and 125 St.

 

As for everything South, 4T, or 3T Skip-Stop or Bypass, or even leave it as the 2T that it is.

[Grand Concourse]

SAS doesn't need a 6 track line. 3 or 4 would've been more ideal unless they plan to drill another level below for the extra 2 tracks.

[Far Rock Depot]

With the stations spaced apart the way they're planned, there's really no need for more than 2 tracks. When planned back in the 70s, it was to be a high speed line. We've becomes spoiled with the 4track system. NYC and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway are the only 4 tracked systems. If a 2 tracked line is successful with cbtc on the L, SAS doesn't really need it.

[Threxx]

Remember that the is essentially a for Manhattan. They function in similar ways, so 3 tracks, while optimal for possible express service/possible delays, aren't really necessary. I do think the provisions should be made if they want to add them later (drilling portals under the local tracks).

[Brighton Express]

Remember that the is essentially a for Manhattan. They function in similar ways, so 3 tracks, while optimal for possible express service/possible delays, aren't really necessary. I do think the provisions should be made if they want to add them later (drilling portals under the local tracks).

 

 

I can understand your point clearly about the being a . Thing is, the does not have a heavy rush hour schedule, well atleast not any more. They should atleast consider a 3T between 72 St and 125 St for the next phase. The reason I say this is because there will be tons of people. I know, it is supposed to ease the , but note the word ease. Just a suggestion.

[Threxx]

I can understand your point clearly about the being a . Thing is, the does not have a heavy rush hour schedule, well atleast not any more. They should atleast consider a 3T between 72 St and 125 St for the next phase. The reason I say this is because there will be tons of people. I know, it is supposed to ease the , but note the word ease. Just a suggestion.

 

 

I was comparing the two in terms of routing, not schedule. And as I said, it should be considered, and if it is truly not an option at the moment, then the provisions should be there in case it could be done in the future.

[Q10 Airport]

I was comparing the two in terms of routing, not schedule. And as I said, it should be considered, and if it is truly not an option at the moment, then the provisions should be there in case it could be done in the future.

 

 

That was what they did when they built the . If I recall they have the space for a third track, and it was part of the IND Second System. Of course there has never been the demand for that, but at least they made the provision available when building it. I wish they did the same thing with the SAS.

[Grand Concourse]

With the stations spaced apart the way they're planned, there's really no need for more than 2 tracks. When planned back in the 70s, it was to be a high speed line. We've becomes spoiled with the 4track system. NYC and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway are the only 4 tracked systems. If a 2 tracked line is successful with cbtc on the L, SAS doesn't really need it.

 

Express tracks aren't just to speed up service, like with the Lex expresses, they are needed for extra capacity as the local can barely handle all those riders by itself. Rush hours, you are lucky the express can keep pace with the local. Nothing speedy about that.

could use longer trains and unless the populations stays as is, I don't think the can continue to handle all the extra riders years from now.

[brooklynunderground]

With the stations spaced apart the way they're planned, there's really no need for more than 2 tracks. When planned back in the 70s, it was to be a high speed line. We've becomes spoiled with the 4track system. NYC and SEPTA's Broad Street Subway are the only 4 tracked systems. If a 2 tracked line is successful with cbtc on the L, SAS doesn't really need it.

 

The Chicago 'L' Purple Line Express run is another 4-tracked line, but you're right, we've assumed express tracks too easily.

[Guest Lance]

In my opinion, it should be three tracks. Not for express service or anything, but for reroute possiblilities due to regular maintenance or the usual unplanned service changes. For instance, if a stalled train was stuck at 72 St/2 Av, the trains behind it would be able to run express until the next crossover instead of having to single-track for a section of the line. One only needs to look at the Canarsie line for an idea of how bad one problem can screw up a two-tracked line in a very busy area.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

I also think SAS should have at least three tracks, but with Phase 1 already dug, isn't it already too late to add a third track there? Perhaps future phases can have at least three tracks.

[CenSin]

Remember that the is essentially a for Manhattan. They function in similar ways, so 3 tracks, while optimal for possible express service/possible delays, aren't really necessary. I do think the provisions should be made if they want to add them later (drilling portals under the local tracks).

 

One only has to need the services of the once during a disruption to see the point. If the line is actually built to 125 Street, and there is a service disruption, then what?

1. trains are cut back to 57 Street–7 Avenue or extended to Astoria for the transfer to the Lexington Avenue lines.

2. "Alternative" service is provided by the , , and Select Bus Service.

 

The second point might not seem like a big deal since the 2 Avenue line is being billed as a Lexington Avenue alternative, but when the line is opened for a few years, people will dread the trek west to Lexington Avenue. I liken it to sending Culver riders over to Brighton or 6 Avenue riders over to Lexington Avenue for alternative service.