CenSin Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share #3926 Posted February 1, 2017 The one train I saw today at Lex-63rd was absolutely slammed. Like train levels of crowding. Good to see people have made the switch enmasse. 19 TPH… here we come. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelestor Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3927 Posted February 2, 2017 19 TPH… here we come. Just run both the and up SAS for 20 tph. We can worry about the in 20 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3928 Posted February 2, 2017 More R32s might have to be kept. Not only for the Canarsie Tubes, but to beef up W service to Astoria so that more Ns can go up via SAS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3929 Posted February 2, 2017 More R32s might have to be kept. Not only for the Canarsie Tubes, but to beef up W service to Astoria so that more Ns can go up via SAS. The way I see it, no more trains will be going up SAS. Ridership in Astoria continues to grow, and most of them don’t want a Broadway Local with no Brooklyn No more room to short turn trains at Whitehall either. You might have to either increase SAS services, or think about a possible second line entirely for Second Avenue until the comes into play in 20-25 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3930 Posted February 2, 2017 More R32s might have to be kept. Not only for the Canarsie Tubes, but to beef up W service to Astoria so that more Ns can go up via SAS. Not really. The R211's will be here in 4-5 years. The way I see it, no more trains will be going up SAS. Ridership in Astoria continues to grow, and most of them don’t want a Broadway Local with no Brooklyn No more room to short turn trains at Whitehall either. You might have to either increase SAS services, or think about a possible second line entirely for Second Avenue until the comes into play in 20-25 years. Because of capacity issues, you cannot increase the number of trains without reducing the number of or trains, with then also reduces the number of local trains. Also adding more or trains up Second Avenue is the easiest way to increase throughput on that line. Additional trains can always end at 9th Avenue in Brooklyn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3931 Posted February 2, 2017 Not really. The R211's will be here in 4-5 years. Because of capacity issues, you cannot increase the number of trains without reducing the number of or trains, with then also reduces the number of local trains. Also adding more or trains up Second Avenue is the easiest way to increase throughput on that line. Additional trains can always end at 9th Avenue in Brooklyn. If ridership on the line really picks up before the R211s come (I am expecting some delays like usual) some additional cars might need to be kept. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3932 Posted February 2, 2017 Let's just install CBTC on the , add more cars, extend the to Co-op City, and build a three-track terminating facility at City Hall to increase Lex service instead. (Kidding, that'll happen only in a foamer's dream.) Seriously, though, the MTA should consider connecting the local tracks to the 63 St Connector tracks at 57 St-7 Av for greater service flexibility. Then the can be extended to 9 Av with increased frequency. A few trains per hour, displaced by increased service, can then go up the 2 Av line to 96 St. I don't predict there'll be much of an effect unless people really want to skip 28 St, 23 St, 8 St, and Prince St during weekdays, in which case some s can go up Second Avenue instead, with all and the rest of the going to Astoria. For this, I agree you might need to keep some R32s for service. Of course, like all other proposals to improve MTA operations, this will probably take 20 years... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42N Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3933 Posted February 2, 2017 Let's just install CBTC on the , add more cars, extend the to Co-op City, and build a three-track terminating facility at City Hall to increase Lex service instead. (Kidding, that'll happen only in a foamer's dream.) Seriously, though, the MTA should consider connecting the local tracks to the 63 St Connector tracks at 57 St-7 Av for greater service flexibility. Then the can be extended to 9 Av with increased frequency. A few trains per hour, displaced by increased service, can then go up the 2 Av line to 96 St. I don't predict there'll be much of an effect unless people really want to skip 28 St, 23 St, 8 St, and Prince St during weekdays, in which case some s can go up Second Avenue instead, with all and the rest of the going to Astoria. For this, I agree you might need to keep some R32s for service. Of course, like all other proposals to improve MTA operations, this will probably take 20 years... Remember, , , , , or can’t have R32 or R42 because of Montague clearance issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3934 Posted February 2, 2017 Remember, , , , , or can’t have R32 or R42 because of Montague clearance issues. Rumor has it, that that issue may have been fixed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3935 Posted February 2, 2017 Let's just install CBTC on the , add more cars, extend the to Co-op City, and build a three-track terminating facility at City Hall to increase Lex service instead. (Kidding, that'll happen only in a foamer's dream.) In all seriousness, the MTA said in the FEIS for SAS that the overcrowding on the Lex is actually the biggest reason why they can't run more trains, since people cannot exit/enter in a reasonable amount of time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3936 Posted February 2, 2017 Not really. The R211's will be here in 4-5 years. Because of capacity issues, you cannot increase the number of trains without reducing the number of or trains, with then also reduces the number of local trains. Also adding more or trains up Second Avenue is the easiest way to increase throughput on that line. Additional trains can always end at 9th Avenue in Brooklyn. This is why once work is done on the Myrtle EL next year I split the into and services, with the being additional trains that run to 96/2. That likely along with any trains that go to 96th solves that issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelestor Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3937 Posted February 2, 2017 In all seriousness, the MTA said in the FEIS for SAS that the overcrowding on the Lex is actually the biggest reason why they can't run more trains, since people cannot exit/enter in a reasonable amount of time. 28-30 tph are supposed to pass through 125 St during the rush. The biggest bottleneck of the line is at Grand Central, where dwell times of 45-60 seconds prevent more than 25-27 tph from passing through. Having a two-platform configuration instead of the 3-platform design at Penn Station doesn't help either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3938 Posted February 2, 2017 Remember, , , , , or can’t have R32 or R42 because of Montague clearance issues. Rumor has it, that that issue may have been fixed. If worse comes to worst, the R32s can go on the or (not that many non-transit enthusiasts would like it). 28-30 tph are supposed to pass through 125 St during the rush. The biggest bottleneck of the line is at Grand Central, where dwell times of 45-60 seconds prevent more than 25-27 tph from passing through. Having a two-platform configuration instead of the 3-platform design at Penn Station doesn't help either. During the AM rush southbound, the is timetabled for every 4-5 minutes for a frequency of 12-15 tph, the every "3-6 minutes" according to the official schedule (which is a huge difference between 10 and 20 tph), and the collectively is timetabled for every 2.5 minutes for a total 24 tph. So on the express tracks at 125 St, there is supposed to be between 22 and 35 tph according to the timetable, which I'll take with a grain of salt since express trains definitely do not run every 100 seconds. During the PM rush northbound, the is timetabled for every 4-6 minutes for a frequency of 10-15 tph, the every 5 minutes for a frequency of 12 tph, and the collectively is timetabled for every 3-5 minutes for a total 12-20 tph. The express tracks at 125 St would have 22 to 27 tph, which is around the block signals' capacity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share #3939 Posted February 2, 2017 During the AM rush southbound, the is timetabled for every 4-5 minutes for a frequency of 12-15 tph, the every "3-6 minutes" according to the official schedule (which is a huge difference between 10 and 20 tph), and the collectively is timetabled for every 2.5 minutes for a total 24 tph. So on the express tracks at 125 St, there is supposed to be between 22 and 35 tph according to the timetable, which I'll take with a grain of salt since express trains definitely do not run every 100 seconds. During the PM rush northbound, the is timetabled for every 4-6 minutes for a frequency of 10-15 tph, the every 5 minutes for a frequency of 12 tph, and the collectively is timetabled for every 3-5 minutes for a total 12-20 tph. The express tracks at 125 St would have 22 to 27 tph, which is around the block signals' capacity. How many trains ought to go through 125 Street on Lexington Avenue? And how many trains actually go through that station? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayParkwayW Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3940 Posted February 2, 2017 Rumor has it, that that issue may have been fixed.Really? According to who? And even if it's not fixed, R32s can still operate on the since those lines never travel through the tunnel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3941 Posted February 2, 2017 Really? According to who? And even if it's not fixed, R32s can still operate on the since those lines never travel through the tunnel. Some train operators 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayParkwayW Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3942 Posted February 2, 2017 So then IF the Montague clearance issue is fixed, then can't they just run some trains to Prospect Park or Brighton Beach during the remaining tunnel closures? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3943 Posted February 2, 2017 So then IF the Montague clearance issue is fixed, then can't they just run some trains to Prospect Park or Brighton Beach during the remaining tunnel closures?That shuttle was useless. It carried air more than anything, and it got confusing to people when the shuttle and regular overlapped between Essex St and Broad St. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RR503 Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3944 Posted February 2, 2017 Just extend the regular ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3945 Posted February 2, 2017 28-30 tph are supposed to pass through 125 St during the rush. The biggest bottleneck of the line is at Grand Central, where dwell times of 45-60 seconds prevent more than 25-27 tph from passing through. Having a two-platform configuration instead of the 3-platform design at Penn Station doesn't help either. Right. It likely would have been done as three platforms if 59th had been an express station from the get-go (which it was not until 1962). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3946 Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) How many trains ought to go through 125 Street on Lexington Avenue? And how many trains actually go through that station? According to the reports found on www.straphangers.org, on the express tracks, the tph ought to be: AM rush - 25 - 13 trains, 12 trains PM rush - 24 - 14 trains, 10 trains What it really is: - Only 71% of trains on time http://www.straphangers.org/statesub15/lines/4profile.pdf - Only 67% of trains on time http://www.straphangers.org/statesub15/lines/5profile.pdf So I think with 70% of all express trains on time during the rush hour, I'd say the actual frequencies are probably around 17-18 tph, which is really low for a line that was supposed to have about 27 tph. Also the actual tph may be more than my cited figure, so if there's actually a timetable for 30 tph, then the actual number of trains may only be 21 tph. (Edit: Added breakdown of trains per service.) Edited February 2, 2017 by agar io 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T to Dyre Avenue Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3947 Posted February 2, 2017 Seriously, though, the MTA should consider connecting the local tracks to the 63 St Connector tracks at 57 St-7 Av for greater service flexibility. Then the can be extended to 9 Av with increased frequency. A few trains per hour, displaced by increased service, can then go up the 2 Av line to 96 St. I don't predict there'll be much of an effect unless people really want to skip 28 St, 23 St, 8 St, and Prince St during weekdays, in which case some s can go up Second Avenue instead, with all and the rest of the going to Astoria. For this, I agree you might need to keep some R32s for service. Of course, like all other proposals to improve MTA operations, this will probably take 20 years... I can foresee plenty of delays occurring at 57th and 7th, if trains are sent up 2nd Ave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agar io Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3948 Posted February 2, 2017 I can foresee plenty of delays occurring at 57th and 7th, if trains are sent up 2nd Ave. I also think that would happen, which is why there should be more service to 96 St and more service to Astoria to cover the s diverted from Astoria to 96th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3949 Posted February 2, 2017 Only AM Rush and PM Rush they should have a few (N)s coming from 96 St-2 Av. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelestor Posted February 2, 2017 Share #3950 Posted February 2, 2017 According to the reports found on www.straphangers.org, on the express tracks, the tph ought to be: AM rush - 25 - 13 trains, 12 trains PM rush - 24 - 14 trains, 10 trains What it really is: - Only 71% of trains on time http://www.straphangers.org/statesub15/lines/4profile.pdf - Only 67% of trains on time http://www.straphangers.org/statesub15/lines/5profile.pdf So I think with 70% of all express trains on time during the rush hour, I'd say the actual frequencies are probably around 17-18 tph, which is really low for a line that was supposed to have about 27 tph. Also the actual tph may be more than my cited figure, so if there's actually a timetable for 30 tph, then the actual number of trains may only be 21 tph. (Edit: Added breakdown of trains per service.) According to the schedules, between 7:30 and 8:30 there are supposed to be 14 trains, 14 trains, and 21 trains passing through 125 St. I think the train could be increased to 24 tph without negatively affecting service, since the SAS now exists to take some relief off the local trains. SAS currently only helps the express trains by siphoning riders off at 86 St, preventing further delays. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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