Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[qjtransitmaster]

Note that the B15 is the most heavilly-used individual route in the NYCT network between 1AM and 5AM. It's even heavier than the M15 at these times!

Blame the airport for that. If more lines went to JFK they would have similar loads since JFK IS that high demand.

[bobtehpanda]

Blame the airport for that. If more lines went to JFK they would have similar loads since JFK IS that high demand.

 

JFK is certainly high demand, but it's not the highest demand, and that's false logic. JFK only has a significant amount of people there during night for (mostly) cargo operations. Few workplaces are truly 24/7. All you're proving is that demand is more stable than midday peaked destinations. That doesn't necessarily mean they need more bus routes.

[Around the Horn]

How exactly is the B64 "perfect?" The two halves of the route were just kind of thrown together. It literally only goes up to Bay Ridge Av because it saves money, not because it benefits anybody coming from Bath Av or Coney Island. The logic behind re-routing via VA Hospital is that it can return to its old terminal at 4 Av/86 St without disrupting the B1, and, it can provide straight East-West service, including at VA (when right now you'd have to take the B8 to an East-West route). 

1.It actually does...

2.But people don't need that.Only 2 people got off for the B1 which pulled up alongside the 64 during rush hour.My point is as a regular rider that the route does need to change,but the frequencies do

[BrooklynBus]

1.It actually does...

2.But people don't need that.Only 2 people got off for the B1 which pulled up alongside the 64 during rush hour.My point is as a regular rider that the route does need to change,but the frequencies do

Only two people got off to change for the B1 is because now they are walking all the way from Cropsey to 86 Street so they don't have to transfer. Although it will be easier for them once the B8 gets reextended to 95 St.

[JFK Depot]

JFK is certainly high demand, but it's not the highest demand, and that's false logic. JFK only has a significant amount of people there during night for (mostly) cargo operations. Few workplaces are truly 24/7. All you're proving is that demand is more stable than midday peaked destinations. That doesn't necessarily mean they need more bus routes.

your right which is why i say keep it exactly how it is now.. except run Artics on every Airport B15...

the B15 to JFK Airport is a good route for Artics

they need to finally give ENY some

[dkupf]

BrooklynBus, who was working for the Department of City Planning during the mid to late 1970's, did not want the B64 doing what it does now, because an O/D survey showed that it would inconvenience too many riders.

 

And he was right.

 

Not only did B64 riders lose their seat on the R train, but their trip times have increased--a double whammy.  The drop in ridership, and the widening in frequency, proves it.

[qjtransitmaster]

BrooklynBus, who was working for the Department of City Planning during the mid to late 1970's, did not want the B64 doing what it does now, because an O/D survey showed that it would inconvenience too many riders.

 

And he was right.

 

Not only did B64 riders lose their seat on the R train, but their trip times have increased--a double whammy.  The drop in ridership, and the widening in frequency, proves it.

Now I know why he is "BROOKLYN BUS"

[BrooklynBus]

BrooklynBus, who was working for the Department of City Planning during the mid to late 1970's, did not want the B64 doing what it does now, because an O/D survey showed that it would inconvenience too many riders.

 

And he was right.

 

Not only did B64 riders lose their seat on the R train, but their trip times have increased--a double whammy.  The drop in ridership, and the widening in frequency, proves it.

 

I ruled it out after two weeks of study and analyzing the data. It, however was the simplest way to get a through 86th Street route and the MTA always looks for easy solutions to tough problems because it means less work for them. I came to that conclusion after watching them in action as an employee for almost 25 years. It is just too difficult for them to consider more than two routes at a time which is what the problem with the B64 requires. It boggles their little minds and they are so stubborn, they won't listen to those who understand the problems better than  they do.  In fact they resent suggestions from the public and stated that publicly in 2006 in Borough Hall at a NYMTC meeting. The Director of MTA Planning actually stated, "We have our own planners. No one  tells us how to plan" in response to suggestions that the NYMTC study made to them.

[B35 via Church]

The (drastic) change in ridership the B64 underwent with those 2010 cuts were blatantly obvious to me....

 

@B35 via Church. Using McDonald service instead of the Limited would make the route more available to Central Brooklyn riders and it would be more reliable because it would be shorter. How much time does the Limited save anyway and is it really worth it? Also why is there a Limited stop at New York and not Rogers with the B44 now in place? But using the Limited instead from Sunset Park to go to JFK would also work. Additionally, there also needs to be JFK routes from the Junction and from southern Brooklyn. One JFK route to serve the entire borough is just ridiculous.

I thought my stance on the 35 LTD was well known on here, lol - Apparently not, if you're asking me how much time does the LTD save & if it's really worth it.... As for no LTD stop on Rogers, well I can expect a swap of sorts to happen in the near future (revoking of the 35 LTD stop on NY av & a placing of a 35 LTD stop on Rogers....

 

As far as 1 Brooklyn-JFK route, I don't think it's as ridiculous as you do; I mean, consider that there's only 1 Manhattan-LGA route (which seems to be one of the MTA's babies [sans an SBS route])... The B15 (like most other bus routes in the city) are poorly advertised......

 

Anyway, what I really came here to say was, my counterpoint is not that the B35 LTD should go to JFK (over the local), my counterpoint is that the 35 should not be going to JFK in any capacity.....

[dkupf]

I ruled it out after two weeks of study and analyzing the data. It, however was the simplest way to get a through 86th Street route and the MTA always looks for easy solutions to tough problems because it means less work for them. I came to that conclusion after watching them in action as an employee for almost 25 years. It is just too difficult for them to consider more than two routes at a time which is what the problem with the B64 requires. It boggles their little minds and they are so stubborn, they won't listen to those who understand the problems better than they do.  In fact they resent suggestions from the public and stated that publicly in 2006 in Borough Hall at a NYMTC meeting. The Director of MTA Planning actually stated, "We have our own planners. No one tells us how to plan" in response to suggestions that the NYMTC study made to them.

 

Now if only the service planners realize that they're human, that they're fallible.  You know, like the service planners at SEPTA.

 

Fat chance that this would ever occur.

[qjtransitmaster]

Now if only the service planners realize that they're human, that they're fallible.  You know, like the service planners at SEPTA.

 

Fat chance that this would ever occur.

THANK YOU QJT SALUTES YOU SIR WIN!!!!! pm me what do you know of SEPTA?

[dkupf]

Go www.septa.org main page, and drag the mouse to "Media", then click on "Reports".  Scroll down to "Other Reports", and click "Service Standards and Process".

 

In my humble opinion, it is a tried-and-true methodology, and I fully respect the opinions of their service planners.  They apply their standards with consistency with one critique, however.  If a suggestion for a new route is turned down because it isn't projected to cover operating costs, I counter that based on this logic, no mass transit agency in the USA, not even SEPTA, would exist.  In other words, the service planners, as well as everone else who works at SEPTA, would be out of work.

 

After reading the Service Standards and Process, scroll up to "Annual Service Plan".  Currently, SEPTA has their Annual Service Plans (ASP) from FY 2010 through FY 2014 online.

 

Effective the FY 2014 ASP, they are evaluating suggestions from the public.  This compares to the NYCT's service planners' arrogant attitude that noone tells them how to plan.

 

Sorry, but the deadline for suggestions to be evaluated for the FY 2015 ASP was August 31.  (You have to wait until sometime next Summer for the suggestion period to reopen, i.e., for the FY 2016 ASP.)  

[BrooklynBus]

@B35. There also needs to be more than one bus route from Manhattan to LaGuardia. All the airports have always been grossly underserved and it's no accident either. All mass transit improvements to airports especially at regular fares cuts into fare revenue of taxi operators and they have a strong lobby.

[bobtehpanda]

@B35. There also needs to be more than one bus route from Manhattan to LaGuardia. All the airports have always been grossly underserved and it's no accident either. All mass transit improvements to airports especially at regular fares cuts into fare revenue of taxi operators and they have a strong lobby.

 

There was that Giuliani proposal for a train to LaGuardia, but Astoria killed that plan.

 

I'd ideally like to see an AirTrain LaGuardia eventually replace the Q70, but with the crazy terminal reconfiguration that's about to happen over there I wouldn't put any money towards it.

 

I also don't know where you would end up directing another route from LaGuardia to Manhattan; there aren't that many river crossings, and the next one south of the Triboro is paralleled by two subway lines accessible from Jackson Heights.

[qjtransitmaster]

@B35. There also needs to be more than one bus route from Manhattan to LaGuardia. All the airports have always been grossly underserved and it's no accident either. All mass transit improvements to airports especially at regular fares cuts into fare revenue of taxi operators and they have a strong lobby.

How from midtown Q70 has that covered and getting to the Q70 isn't that hard. Unless you're suggesting a lower Manhattan express bus? Upper Manhattan from GWB won't work as all CUSA&NJT need to do is send some lines to LGA via 125 th stop(closed-door) and it would crush any chance of an MTA route succeeding.

There was that Giuliani proposal for a train to LaGuardia, but Astoria killed that plan.

 

I'd ideally like to see an AirTrain LaGuardia eventually replace the Q70, but with the crazy terminal reconfiguration that's about to happen over there I wouldn't put any money towards it.

 

I also don't know where you would end up directing another route from LaGuardia to Manhattan; there aren't that many river crossings, and the next one south of the Triboro is paralleled by two subway lines accessible from Jackson Heights.

you always beat me to it do you?

[bobtehpanda]

How from midtown Q70 has that covered and getting to the Q70 isn't that hard. Unless you're suggesting a lower Manhattan express bus? Upper Manhattan from GWB won't work as all CUSA&NJT need to do is send some lines to LGA

 

Which would never happen, because they would need permission from NYCDOT to operate that far.

 

No established agency is going to do anything without a fire under their ass, because all they get paid to do is sit pretty and just do what they've always done. Going to LaGuardia does not help their mostly commuter customer base, which would most likely be using Newark Liberty.

[qjtransitmaster]

Which would never happen, because they would need permission from NYCDOT to operate that far.

 

No established agency is going to do anything without a fire under their ass, because all they get paid to do is sit pretty and just do what they've always done. Going to LaGuardia does not help their mostly commuter customer base, which would most likely be using Newark Liberty.

Sort of.

[dkupf]

The most important thing to do first is to close service gaps, not add layers of service, which would be a waste of our tax dollars.  Nor should we extend routes that are currently excessively long and unreliable.

 

Let's kill Operations Planning's notion that noone tells them how to plan.

[DaTransitMan4608]

 

How from midtown Q70 has that covered and getting to the Q70 isn't that hard. Unless you're suggesting a lower Manhattan express bus? Upper Manhattan from GWB won't work as all CUSA&NJT need to do is send some lines to LGA via 125 th stop(closed-door) and it would crush any chance of an MTA route succeeding.

 

Yeah because sending NJT buses to LGA isn't a complete waste of gas, money, and time...

 

Man we've discussed this already. NJT is never gonna send interstate buses anywhere besides Manhattan. Let's end this "NJT could go to LGA" nonsense now.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Wait a second, how'd we go from the B64 to NJT buses to LGA?!?

[DaTransitMan4608]

QJ mentioned something about sending NJT buses to LGA. Which they'll never go for.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Q43LTD]

Where is the demand for that shit?

[BrooklynBus]

There was that Giuliani proposal for a train to LaGuardia, but Astoria killed that plan.

 

I'd ideally like to see an AirTrain LaGuardia eventually replace the Q70, but with the crazy terminal reconfiguration that's about to happen over there I wouldn't put any money towards it.

 

I also don't know where you would end up directing another route from LaGuardia to Manhattan; there aren't that many river crossings, and the next one south of the Triboro is paralleled by two subway lines accessible from Jackson Heights.

Weren't there once private express routes from Grand Central to LaGuardia or do they still exist?

[bobtehpanda]

Weren't there once private express routes from Grand Central to LaGuardia or do they still exist?

 

I think they still exist (I believe they come from Penn, GCT, and PABT; I've definitely seen curbside pickup locations at either Penn or PABT) but I think they're above $10 a ride. Seriously, most people would be better off taking a cab.

 

I'm of the opinion that we should let private express services stay private. I'm not proposing to go all NJT here, but we should promote private transit services that complement the system. We all know the MTA would never come up with something like, say, the Chinatown routes on their own.

[BrooklynBus]

I think they still exist (I believe they come from Penn, GCT, and PABT; I've definitely seen curbside pickup locations at either Penn or PABT) but I think they're above $10 a ride. Seriously, most people would be better off taking a cab.

 

I'm of the opinion that we should let private express services stay private. I'm not proposing to go all NJT here, but we should promote private transit services that complement the system. We all know the MTA would never come up with something like, say, the Chinatown routes on their own.

That's the problem, the above $10's per ride. Why couldn't the MTA operate such a service for the price of a local or express bus with a couple of intermediate stops? I bet those buses would be filled. I still say the taxi lobby would prevent the MTA from doing that if they wanted to. Remember the low flat fare they started for group taxi rides from the airport? I think it started at something like $30 a ride. What's it now? $50 or $60? Not very low cost. What about a private fare from the airport, how much is that? We really have to do much better for our airport passengers, and the MTA is in a position to do something about it. No other city that I know of are bus and taxi fares from the airport so expensive. As I said, one local bus route per borough to an airport is utterly ridiculous. Edited November 20, 2013 by BrooklynBus