Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

So B71 restoration and extension to lower Manhattan would be enough.

It would be a good start.... I'll just put it that way.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There's shuttle buses that are in place of trains. You have the Q32 that runs along the length of the from 82 St to Queensboro Plaza. You have the and trains from Queensboro Plaza that goes to times Sq. You have the and that go from 74 St to Times Sq & Bryant Park respectively. You have the LIRR to/from Flushing.

 

What more could you ask for...

We're talking about development along the waterfront... Most of the services that you mention are clustered about...

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

There's shuttle buses that are in place of trains. You have the Q32 that runs along the length of the from 82 St to Queensboro Plaza. You have the and trains from Queensboro Plaza that goes to times Sq. You have the and that go from 74 St to Times Sq & Bryant Park respectively. You have the LIRR to/from Flushing.

 

What more could you ask for...

Express buses of course .

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Express buses of course .

They should bring back the QM22 for starters... It ran away from the subway and perhaps could be re-routed to serve areas near the waterfront with luxury condos, etc.

[qjtransitmaster]

Express buses of course .

That would carry air 80% of the time . Next. Keep em in places that actually have no options or poor options where they might not cost an arm& leg to operate.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That would carry air 80% of the time . Next. Keep em in places that actually have no options or poor options where they might not cost an arm& leg to operate.

Please... There are new developing areas that should be studied for express bus service.

[qjtransitmaster]

Please... There are new developing areas that should be studied for express bus service.

No point with you and your emotional attachment to express buses to the point you mostly overlook logic. Your forgetting their purpose in NYC which is mainly linking distant parts of the city not easily linked by rail modes to Manhattan. Or too distant from the rail in places where the alternatives suck like Riverdale/ bay ridge or none at all Staten island and eastern bronx and NE and central queens. Only express bus to buck the trend and actually do well is QM24. There are reasons why SE queens and NE in terms of loads is like night and day. If a new developing area is easy to get to by subway or Rail express buses would fail miserably it's obvious all over the city. This is a city that values speed the fastest mode always gets advertised by developers. Bxm2 I admit can get quicker but riders have the last say. You can't possibly be in your right mind when you want to bring back glorified LTDs like QM22 when areas with very slow alternatives in the city like North shore SI are still underserved or forced to drive to the nearest bus x10 running with inflated loads cause the MTA can't be bothered with properly serving the north shore & the BMs Nuff said

Edited May 4, 2014 by qjtransitmaster

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No point with you and your emotional attachment to express buses to the point you mostly overlook logic. Your forgetting their purpose in NYC which is mainly linking distant parts of the city not easily linked by rail modes to Manhattan. Or too distant from the rail in places where the alternatives suck like Riverdale/ bay ridge or none at all Staten island and eastern bronx and NE and central queens. Only express bus to buck the trend and actually do well is QM24. There are reasons why SE queens and NE in terms of loads is like night and day. If a new developing area is easy to get to by subway or Rail express buses would fail miserably it's obvious all over the city. This is a city that values speed the fastest mode always gets advertised by developers. Bxm2 I admit can get quicker but riders have the last say. You can't possibly be in your right mind when you want to bring back glorified LTDs like QM22 when areas with very slow alternatives in the city like North shore SI are still underserved or forced to drive to the nearest bus x10 running with inflated loads cause the MTA can't be bothered with properly serving the north shore & the BMs Nuff said

Are you hard of reading or something? We're not talking about areas near subways or railroads.  We're talking about new developing areas that have limited transportation options.  This is coming from a person that doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're" and you claim you went to college...  Smh... 

[aemoreira81]

They should bring back the QM22 for starters... It ran away from the subway and perhaps could be re-routed to serve areas near the waterfront with luxury condos, etc.

 

The QM22 had no market...its routing along 21 Street took it through some pretty poor areas, and service improvements to the Q100 really are what sealed its fate. There are some areas in the city where express bus service would easily comply with loading guidelines, but that is not one of them, especially given that the QM22 was essentially a franchise-holder (1 bus on each branch a day to prevent someone else from competing). The QM16/17 used to be such as well, but both have been improved.

Edited May 4, 2014 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

....There are reasons why SE queens and NE in terms of loads is like night and day.

Yeah, population density & demographics.... Period.

 

....If a new developing area is easy to get to by subway or Rail express buses would fail miserably it's obvious all over the city.

This is a city that values speed the fastest mode always gets advertised by developers.....

What gets advertised by developers are the modes of travel that runs to, or near said development.... We know that you're hyper-focused on speed, but developers aren't on that shit like that.... Their end goal is to get people occupying that newly developing area...

 

The one thing I will say is that developers do a much better job of advertising express buses than the MTA does.....

 

....Your forgetting their purpose in NYC which is mainly linking distant parts of the city not easily linked by rail modes to Manhattan.

Or too distant from the rail in places where the alternatives suck like Riverdale/ bay ridge or none at all Staten island and eastern bronx and NE and central queens....

That's a misconception... You're making it sound like everyone (that wishes to take public transit as part of their commute) that lives in the more distant parts of the outerboroughs even wants to put up with the rails.... In other words, if rails existed in such areas, then the express bus would have no place or purpose.... I can't agree with that....

 

The QM22 had no market...its routing along 21 Street took it through some pretty poor areas, and service improvements to the Q100 really are what sealed its fate. There are some areas in the city where express bus service would easily comply with loading guidelines, but that is not one of them, especially given that the QM22 was essentially a franchise-holder (1 bus on each branch a day to prevent someone else from competing). The QM16/17 used to be such as well, but both have been improved.

Yep, the QM16 was extended eastward (to where the residents west of B 116th can easily access it) & areas along the QM17 saw growth, not to mention how marvelous (sarcasm) A train service to far rockaway was....

 

With the QM22, adding to what you said.... Although astoria saw a population boom, the route was not patronized - hell, I question how many even knew the route existed.....

[aemoreira81]

It's off-topic because it's Queens, but to me, the QM17 really should have its route shifted southward in the Beach 70s and Beach 60s to serve Arverne by the Sea directly. It's certainly more of an "express bus clientele" than north of the tracks.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The QM22 had no market...its routing along 21 Street took it through some pretty poor areas, and service improvements to the Q100 really are what sealed its fate. There are some areas in the city where express bus service would easily comply with loading guidelines, but that is not one of them, especially given that the QM22 was essentially a franchise-holder (1 bus on each branch a day to prevent someone else from competing). The QM16/17 used to be such as well, but both have been improved.

 

 

Yeah, population density & demographics.... Period.

 

What gets advertised by developers are the modes of travel that runs to, or near said development.... We know that you're hyper-focused on speed, but developers aren't on that shit like that.... Their end goal is to get people occupying that newly developing area...

 

The one thing I will say is that developers do a much better job of advertising express buses than the MTA does.....

 

That's a misconception... You're making it sound like everyone (that wishes to take public transit as part of their commute) that lives in the more distant parts of the outerboroughs even wants to put up with the rails.... In other words, if rails existed in such areas, then the express bus would have no place or purpose.... I can't agree with that....

 

Yep, the QM16 was extended eastward (to where the residents west of B 116th can easily access it) & areas along the QM17 saw growth, not to mention how marvelous (sarcasm) A train service to far rockaway was....

 

With the QM22, adding to what you said.... Although astoria saw a population boom, the route was not patronized - hell, I question how many even knew the route existed.....

That's precisely why I would have re-routed the QM22 to serve more affluent parts of Astoria and also Long Island City... I had a friend who lives in Astoria and she inquired about the old express bus. She would've certainly have used it.  It's funny because for a short while I even considered Astoria.  This was when it was still heavily Greek and one bedrooms were going for say $1,250.00 or so.  Now it's more like 1,500 and up.  I didn't know about the express bus at that time, so that wasn't a factor.

[qjtransitmaster]

That's precisely why I would have re-routed the QM22 to serve more affluent parts of Astoria and also Long Island City... I had a friend who lives in Astoria and she inquired about the old express bus. She would've certainly have used it.  It's funny because for a short while I even considered Astoria.  This was when it was still heavily Greek and one bedrooms were going for say $1,250.00 or so.  Now it's more like 1,500 and up.  I didn't know about the express bus at that time, so that wasn't a factor.

Just stop nothing will make a glorified LTD relevant QM22 was always useless and always will be. No part of Astoria will make a dent in subway use.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Just stop nothing will make a glorified LTD relevant QM22 was always useless and always will be. No part of Astoria will make a dent in subway use.

Why do you knock express buses so much? You're quick to put local routes on a highway, but when it's an express bus you object that "people will use the train so that route is useless". It's not just in these NYC bus forums either. You do it with NJT also. I'm not trying to start anything here I'm just pointing it out.

 

 

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[qjtransitmaster]

Why do you knock express buses so much? You're quick to put local routes on a highway, but when it's an express bus you object that "people will use the train so that route is useless". It's not just in these NYC bus forums either. You do it with NJT also. I'm not trying to start anything here I'm just pointing it out. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't see me knocking useful express buses like many Bxm lines and SI x and buses like x27. Or SEPTA's 123,124/125/9 which are all express buses yes I am very familiar with many express buses in many systems. Also you think up redundant lines that take resources away from lines that actually serve unique markets. Njt's express buses are local in NJ thus invalidating your argument.

[B35 via Church]

When the MTA updates it's budget (financial) plan this July and hopefully it includes service enhancements for 2015, this is a proposal for Brooklyn that I hope that can be considered and was considered as part of the 2008 service enhancement that wasn't implemented due to the recession, it is:

 

-Restore the B71 bus and extend the B71 through the Hugh Carey Tunnel to terminate at South Ferry.

 

-A new Red Hook to South Ferry bus route through the Hugh Carey Tunnel (not bringing back the B77 that was going to be extended to South Ferry as part of the 2008 service enhancement) but would operate along the B57 and B61 path from the Smith 9 St station and along Lorraine St and through IKEA and along the B61 path on Van Brunt St to the Hugh Carey Tunnel.  This would be a new bus route to operate between the Smith 9 St station and South Ferry.

 

Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Yeah, a local route should run to lower manhattan (namely, to the ferry terminal) from Park Slope/Carroll Gdns, etc....

 

If they do manage to restore the B71 & run it to manhattan, I can bet that route will be truncated to end somewhere around Grand Army plz... It would not run to Rogers/Sterling....

 

A Red Hook to South Ferry route would be pointless dude; You simply won't get folks to make their way to smith/9th (coming off some other bus, or the ) to take an indirect shuttle running to Manhattan - which is all that would be... It has to be a route directly serving the communities that have been clamoring for that service for years now (again, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, etc.).... It would have no real riderbase outside of that....

[Missabassie]

Next prop, send the B69 to prospect park subway via Flatbush av, and increase B67 headways. That b**ch of a turn (B69) at Flatbush & 7th has no reason to exist.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Missabassi

[BrooklynBus]

Yeah, a local route should run to lower manhattan (namely, to the ferry terminal) from Park Slope/Carroll Gdns, etc....

 

If they do manage to restore the B71 & run it to manhattan, I can bet that route will be truncated to end somewhere around Grand Army plz... It would not run to Rogers/Sterling....

 

A Red Hook to South Ferry route would be pointless dude; You simply won't get folks to make their way to smith/9th (coming off some other bus, or the ) to take an indirect shuttle running to Manhattan - which is all that would be... It has to be a route directly serving the communities that have been clamoring for that service for years now (again, Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, etc.).... It would have no real riderbase outside of that....

Few realize that the MTA never wanted the B51. It was a response from communities to run a local route over the Brooklyn Bridge. Several community boards faught for it over a period of three years as an alternative to the subway. The route they requested began at Grand Army Plaza and would have operated along Flatbush Avenue straight over the Manhattan Bridge and south to Worth Steet via Park Row. They MTA knew it would have been successful and they woud have had to provide too much service. They also knew many would choose that route to get a seat rather than standing in a crush loaded subway, so they refused to operate it.

 

So instead they proposed a poor substitute, something they knew woud attract far fewer passengers. A shuttle route from Downtwn Brooklyn. And they were right. It was never well utilized, and they eliminated it at the first opportunity, the 2010 service cuts.

[BreeddekalbL]

Few realize that the MTA never wanted the B51. It was a response from communities to run a local route over the Brooklyn Bridge. Several community boards faught for it over a period of three years as an alternative to the subway. The route they requested began at Grand Army Plaza and would have operated along Flatbush Avenue straight over the Manhattan Bridge and south to Worth Steet via Park Row. They MTA knew it would have been successful and they woud have had to provide too much service. They also knew many would choose that route to get a seat rather than standing in a crush loaded subway, so they refused to operate it

 

i thought it was the manhattan bridge 

[NYSubwayBuff]

 

 

Few realize that the MTA never wanted the B51. It was a response from communities to run a local route over the Brooklyn Bridge. Several community boards faught for it over a period of three years as an alternative to the subway. The route they requested began at Grand Army Plaza and would have operated along Flatbush Avenue straight over the Manhattan Bridge and south to Worth Steet via Park Row. They MTA knew it would have been successful and they woud have had to provide too much service. They also knew many would choose that route to get a seat rather than standing in a crush loaded subway, so they refused to operate it.

So instead they proposed a poor substitute, something they knew woud attract far fewer passengers. A shuttle route from Downtwn Brooklyn. And they were right. It was never well utilized, and they eliminated it at the first opportunity, the 2010 service cuts.

 

If the MTA didn't want to run the route theu should've subcontracted to a private company, a private co. could run buses cheaper than public buses because there is no union BS.

If a private co. like academy or a new operator could run it it would be a huge benefit to the community

 

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Edited May 29, 2014 by NYSubwayBuff

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If the MTA didn't want to run the route theu should've subcontracted to a private company, a private co. could run buses cheaper than public buses because there is no union BS. If a private co. like academy or a new operator could run it it would be a huge benefit to the community Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

Shoulda coulda woulda.... 

[NYSubwayBuff]

I think a private operator should step up and start operating these routes by getting politicians to put pressure on the MTA would make life much easier plus handsome profit

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think a private operator should step up and start operating these routes by getting politicians to put pressure on the MTA would make life much easier plus handsome profit Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

The problem is that the doesn't want the lines, nor do they want anyone running them.  The idea of a private operator coming in and taking over an old route and actually running it successfully would make the look like liars and an further paint a picture of an agency that is inept at doing its job.

[NYSubwayBuff]

Truth. Is that why they started taking over command and queens?

 

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[Via Garibaldi 8]

Truth. Is that why they started taking over command and queens? Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

No... The city stepped in and decided to get rid of all of the private companies and put them all under Bus with the thinking being that we'd have better service.  It's funny that you ask that question because this morning's commute was a disaster, and several passengers talked about how things were so much better when Liberty Lines ran the service.  A BxM1 broke down at Henry Hudson Parkway and West 239th street.  We had to wait another 20+ minutes for another express bus, and my commute going to work has been a mess this entire week...  Commute times well over an hour and 30 minutes one way.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8