Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Future ENY OP]

How will the B45 and B65 go to the Broadway Junction station from their current terminals?

 

 

1) Right on Ralph, left on St. Johns, Left on Eastern Pkwy, Right on Broadway, Right on Van Sinderen. Terminal. (B45 or B65)

 

OR

 

2) Right on Ralph, Left on St. Johns, Left on ENY Ave, Tunnel to Alabama, Terminal (Alabama Ave/Bway Jct) with B12. Late nite, Terminate inside Bway Jct with B20, B83, B25, Q24/Q56.

[Threxx]

1) Right on Ralph, left on St. Johns, Left on Eastern Pkwy, Right on Broadway, Right on Van Sinderen. Terminal. (B45 or B65)

 

OR

 

2) Right on Ralph, Left on St. Johns, Left on ENY Ave, Tunnel to Alabama, Terminal (Alabama Ave/Bway Jct) with B12. Late nite, Terminate inside Bway Jct with B20, B83, B25, Q24/Q56.

 

How will the B45 and B65 go to the Broadway Junction station from their current terminals?

 

 

Or, at Rochester, on B65...

 

Right onto Rochester, Left onto St Marks, continue to Eastern Parkway, right onto Van Sindren Avenue, terminate. Coming back, the B65 could just use Bergen. I always felt like the B45/65 terminals were in the middle of nowhere. Were they there because of the former St. Mary's Hospital?

[Trainmaster5]

Or, at Rochester, on B65...

 

Right onto Rochester, Left onto St Marks, continue to Eastern Parkway, right onto Van Sindren Avenue, terminate. Coming back, the B65 could just use Bergen. I always felt like the B45/65 terminals were in the middle of nowhere. Were they there because of the former St. Mary's Hospital?

 

St Mary's Hospital was probably the reason for the current terminal. That area was a major commercial district and transfer point before the area's decline. Originally, back in the trolley days,I believe the Bergen line ran to the old B12's terminal at Sheridan Ave in the City Line area, and the St John's line ran out to the area around Rockaway Ave and Hegeman St. IIRC after the Bergen St electric trolley barn closed for good and regular buses were used both the B45 and the B65 were based out of ENY depot so I believe they might have been based there before the electrics were used. In fact, before many of the Brooklyn streets were paved over in the mid '60s, I used to look at the trolley track remains and try to figure out the routes that used them and where they went. In those old, pre-Wiki days, I learned many things about bus transit from those rails I saw and questions I asked of the old-timers. I'm a proponent of overhauling the entire Brooklyn bus system to reflect today's realities on the ground but I truly believe that some of the older routings should be taken into consideration, too. Unfortunately I don't believe the present Surface Operations and Planning department has the same commitment toward improving it. The sole focus is cost reduction these days so I don't see them even considering the B45 or B65 and the Barclay's Center or the eastern terminals as part of the equation.. Knowing how they operate, in today's climate if the traffic situation wasn't so bad at Flatbush-Atlantic they would probably to eliminate one of the routes entirely if they could. That's my opinion. Carry on.

[Threxx]

St Mary's Hospital was probably the reason for the current terminal. That area was a major commercial district and transfer point before the area's decline. Originally, back in the trolley days,I believe the Bergen line ran to the old B12's terminal at Sheridan Ave in the City Line area, and the St John's line ran out to the area around Rockaway Ave and Hegeman St. IIRC after the Bergen St electric trolley barn closed for good and regular buses were used both the B45 and the B65 were based out of ENY depot so I believe they might have been based there before the electrics were used. In fact, before many of the Brooklyn streets were paved over in the mid '60s, I used to look at the trolley track remains and try to figure out the routes that used them and where they went. In those old, pre-Wiki days, I learned many things about bus transit from those rails I saw and questions I asked of the old-timers. I'm a proponent of overhauling the entire Brooklyn bus system to reflect today's realities on the ground but I truly believe that some of the older routings should be taken into consideration, too. Unfortunately I don't believe the present Surface Operations and Planning department has the same commitment toward improving it. The sole focus is cost reduction these days so I don't see them even considering the B45 or B65 and the Barclay's Center or the eastern terminals as part of the equation.. Knowing how they operate, in today's climate if the traffic situation wasn't so bad at Flatbush-Atlantic they would probably to eliminate one of the routes entirely if they could. That's my opinion. Carry on.

 

 

I always thought that area had to be a retail district...

 

But now, that terminal is in the middle of nowhere. I think the B65 should to go Broadway Junction and the B45 south to Sutter/Rutland station...

[B35 via Church]

I'm a proponent of overhauling the entire Brooklyn bus system to reflect today's realities on the ground but I truly believe that some of the older routings should be taken into consideration, too. Unfortunately I don't believe the present Surface Operations and Planning department has the same commitment toward improving it. The sole focus is cost reduction these days so I don't see them even considering the B45 or B65 and the Barclay's Center or the eastern terminals as part of the equation..

 

Someone that's even a more a voice of reason than I am.... Thank you.

 

You just bottomlined the whole scope of the matter... They don't care to improve the network & truly hear folks out and consider what's being suggested/wanted because they are that out-of-tune with ridership habits across the board; the refusal to learn because they're only worried about cutting resources & manpower... Which results in funds being saved....

[Threxx]

Someone that's even a more a voice of reason than I am.... Thank you.

 

You just bottomlined the whole scope of the matter... They don't care to improve the network & truly hear folks out and consider what's being suggested/wanted because they are that out-of-tune with ridership habits across the board; the refusal to learn because they're only worried about cutting resources & manpower... Which results in funds being saved....

 

 

That's why, unless there is a change in management strategy at the , the badly needed bus overhaul needed in the city won't happen. As much as they have done dumb things, Veoila/NICE is doing it right. Use some of those savings to benefit customers.

[Trainmaster5]

I always thought that area had to be a retail district...

 

But now, that terminal is in the middle of nowhere. I think the B65 should to go Broadway Junction and the B45 south to Sutter/Rutland station...

 

The section of St. Johns westward toward Utica/Schenectady was a commercial, residential mix as was Utica from St Johns down to Empire Blvd. The area below the present terminals, heading eastward was the far larger commercial strip of Pitkin Avenue running past Rockaway Avenue to Stone Ave( Mother Gaston ). I've always looked at the bus routes in that part of Brooklyn as connectors to the commercial areas rather than feeder routes to the subways. Beside the B45 and B65 routes the B10(15),B46,B40, B7,B12,B14, and B60 all ran through or connected with the two retail districts I've mentioned as well as the Kings Highway, downtown Brooklyn.,Broadway Brooklyn, and Delancey St retail areas. Although the routes were established at different times by different companies there was some sense of purpose and cohesion that appears to be well thought-out compared to what we're left with throughout the borough. I also think the B45 and B65 should travel beyond the eastern terminal but I'll leave the destinations to B35 and others who have more knowledge of the travel patterns and conditions on the ground today. Carry on.

[Threxx]

In light of the recent topics, I have made a proposal to adjust the B45 & 65.

 

B45:

Crown Heights, Sutter Avenue Station.

Downtown Brooklyn, Court Street

Via St. Johns Place.

 

Headways: Current.

 

B65:

Broadway Junction, Van Sindren Avenue

Downtown Brooklyn, Fulton Mall.

 

Via Atlantic, Bergen & Dean Sts.

 

(The bus will make an illegal turn at Flatbush & Atlantic Avenues.)

 

Headways:

Rush: 6-7 Minutes.

Middays: 12-15 Minutes

Evenings: 10-12 Minutes

Weekends: 10-12 Minutes

Late Nights: 60 Minutes (May not be necessary, since B25 goes b/w same terminals and runs all night...)

Edited May 14, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[Threxx]

The section of St. Johns westward toward Utica/Schenectady was a commercial, residential mix as was Utica from St Johns down to Empire Blvd. The area below the present terminals, heading eastward was the far larger commercial strip of Pitkin Avenue running past Rockaway Avenue to Stone Ave( Mother Gaston ). I've always looked at the bus routes in that part of Brooklyn as connectors to the commercial areas rather than feeder routes to the subways. Beside the B45 and B65 routes the B10(15),B46,B40, B7,B12,B14, and B60 all ran through or connected with the two retail districts I've mentioned as well as the Kings Highway, downtown Brooklyn.,Broadway Brooklyn, and Delancey St retail areas. Although the routes were established at different times by different companies there was some sense of purpose and cohesion that appears to be well thought-out compared to what we're left with throughout the borough. I also think the B45 and B65 should travel beyond the eastern terminal but I'll leave the destinations to B35 and others who have more knowledge of the travel patterns and conditions on the ground today. Carry on.

 

 

The reason that these threads have been made is because we are trying to fix the bus routes in all the boroughs with the same carefulness with which the routes were originally established with.

Edited May 14, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[BrooklynBus]

I've been so busy lately that I haven't even had time to read everything in this thread, but you've given me the inspiration to look at route revisions throughout the borough, not only southern Brooklyn.

[Future ENY OP]

In light of the recent topics, I have made a proposal to adjust the B45 & 65.

 

B45:

Crown Heights, Sutter Avenue Station.

Downtown Brooklyn, Court Street

Via St. Johns Place.

 

Headways: Current.

 

B65:

Broadway Junction, Van Sindren Avenue

Downtown Brooklyn, Fulton Mall.

 

Via Atlantic, Bergen & Dean Sts.

 

(The bus will make an illegal turn at Flatbush & Atlantic Avenues.)

 

Headways:

Rush: 6-7 Minutes.

Middays: 12-15 Minutes

Evenings: 10-12 Minutes

Weekends: 10-12 Minutes

Late Nights: 60 Minutes (May not be necessary, since B25 goes b/w same terminals and runs all night...)

 

 

Unless you want the B65 to travel down Livingston to have them to the illegal turn from Flatbush to Atlantic. (ELIMINATE THAT).

Have the B65 go direct to Atlantic, make the normal stops than continue down Atlantic, than right on Washington, than regular to Dean Street.

 

Too many buses on Livingston.. B41/103/67/45 + dollar vans.

 

Now for this B45 idea. I could see this past only for the rush hour AM/PM and Weekends (Part-time).

I can't really see this passing for FULL TIME implemation.

[Threxx]

Unless you want the B65 to travel down Livingston to have them to the illegal turn from Flatbush to Atlantic. (ELIMINATE THAT).

Have the B65 go direct to Atlantic, make the normal stops than continue down Atlantic, than right on Washington, than regular to Dean Street.

 

Too many buses on Livingston.. B41/103/67/45 + dollar vans.

 

Now for this B45 idea. I could see this past only for the rush hour AM/PM and Weekends (Part-time).

I can't really see this passing for FULL TIME implemation.

 

 

It makes the same turn as the B63!

[Future ENY OP]

It makes the same turn as the B63!

 

 

So u mean west bound towards downtown? If so, I can't see that. Bergen street traffic isn't horrible.

Flatbush traffic tends to be horrible at times. Keep in mind. Morning/Evening traffic can be HELL.

[Threxx]

So u mean west bound towards downtown? If so, I can't see that. Bergen street traffic isn't horrible.

Flatbush traffic tends to be horrible at times. Keep in mind. Morning/Evening traffic can be HELL.

 

 

It's one block! I need a better reason to remove that from my plan.

[Threxx]

So u mean west bound towards downtown? If so, I can't see that. Bergen street traffic isn't horrible.

Flatbush traffic tends to be horrible at times. Keep in mind. Morning/Evening traffic can be HELL.

 

 

It's one block! I need a better reason to remove that from my plan.

[BrooklynBus]

http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2012/05/my-proposed-bus-route-changes-for-sheepshead-bay-and-adjacent-neighborhoods-part-1-of-2/

 

I apologize for the low resolution of the map. I made it in Inkscape which was a good resolution. I tried converting to png and also doing a print screen and converting to a jpg. Both times I lost resolution. It would be higher resolution if I could crop the map before exporting but I can't get that to work. If someone could explain to me how to do it, or another way to get a higher resolution, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Unfortunately I cannot make out the map at all... Also what is up with this Plumb Beach??? I've been a Sheepshead Bay resident for more than half of my life and that area has always been called Sheepshead Bay. Also why does the B2 keep losing ridership again?

Edited May 15, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Future ENY OP]

It's one block! I need a better reason to remove that from my plan.

 

 

A better plan IMO.. Right on Vandy or Washington, Left on Atlantic. via Atlantic to Smith/Futon Mall.

 

But why would you want to eliminate the B65 on Bergen Street going towards downtown. I'm trying to understand you.

Just need you to be a little more specifc. For the most part Bergen Street traffic is not bad.

[B35 via Church]

B45: Crown Heights, Sutter Avenue Station.

Downtown Brooklyn, Court Street Via St. Johns Place.

 

B65: Broadway Junction, Van Sindren Avenue

Downtown Brooklyn, Fulton Mall. Via Atlantic, Bergen & Dean Sts.

 

(The bus will make an illegal turn at Flatbush & Atlantic Avenues.)

Keeping it brief.....

 

B45: On the surface, it makes sense.... except they won't terminate a bus full time there, for (one of) the same reasons the old 40/78 was combined... that was the old 78's full time terminal.... The only buses that start over there now, are weekday AM B47's heading towards kings plaza....

 

B65: SImply put, don't agree with putting anymore buses on flatbush.... Bad enough they got the downtown bound B103's now utilizing more of flatbush av in that area than what it used to..... either leave the service it as is, or have them cross flatbush at some other street (like, atlantic, for example).....

[B35 via Church]

http://www.sheepshea...ds-part-1-of-2/

 

I apologize for the low resolution of the map. I made it in Inkscape which was a good resolution. I tried converting to png and also doing a print screen and converting to a jpg. Both times I lost resolution. It would be higher resolution if I could crop the map before exporting but I can't get that to work. If someone could explain to me how to do it, or another way to get a higher resolution, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

 

 

Link is not working right now; getting a 400 error... I'll check back some other time....

 

As far as resolution.... for starters, doing a print screen & saving it as a jpg, you'll always lose quality that way...... jpg is a more compressed/lossless file format than png..... The particular inkscape problem you're having, I can't assist with.... I found inkscape hard to work with, so I'm going with my bread & butter (paint shop pro) instead.....

 

 

Unfortunately I cannot make out the map at all... Also what is up with this Plumb Beach??? I've been a Sheepshead Bay resident for more than half of my life and that area has always been called Sheepshead Bay. Also why does the B2 keep losing ridership again?

 

You know, I was wondering the same thing in the B4 thread..... Plumb beach kept getting brought up....

I always thought plumb beach was that small area b/w (east of) knapp st & the creek....West of knapp (including where the 4/44 terminates), that's considered Sheepshead Bay.....

Edited May 15, 2012 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You know, I was wondering the same thing in the B4 thread..... Plumb beach kept getting brought up....

I always thought plumb beach was that small area b/w (east of) knapp st & the creek....West of knapp (including where the 4/44 terminates), that's considered Sheepshead Bay.....

 

 

lol... Well suddenly that area has a new name... They even have 3000 Emmons Avenue (the site of Thursday's meeting) as being in "Plumb Beach"... I've walked by that place plenty of times as a teenager and that area was always called Sheepshead Bay. Sounds like some sort of real estate ploy which clearly isn't working based on the number of empty condos all along Emmons Avenue. I honestly had never heard of Plumb Beach. I always thought that the end of Gerritsen Beach was the end there where Plumb Beach is (aside from Manhattan Beach of course). I never really paid attention to the map and I've never paid attention to the end of Gerritsen Avenue when I've been down there either.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Threxx]

I like the B2/100 combo. I also agree w/B31 idea.

 

I don't see the need for the Q51 however. Also, where is the reverting of the B64, and the restoration of the B4?

[Threxx]

B45: On the surface, it makes sense.... except they won't terminate a bus full time there, for (one of) the same reasons the old 40/78 was combined... that was the old 78's full time terminal.... The only buses that start over there now, are weekday AM B47's heading towards kings plaza....

 

 

So you like it, but you're saying it's not realistic.

 

B65: SImply put, don't agree with putting anymore buses on flatbush.... Bad enough they got the downtown bound B103's now utilizing more of flatbush av in that area than what it used to..... either leave the service it as is, or have them cross flatbush at some other street (like, atlantic, for example).....

 

 

I just did it so B65's could serve Barclay's Center. The main thing is the extension to Broadway Junction & the headway increases.

[Threxx]

Southern Brooklyn is becoming a focal point once again, so here are my revised plans for South Brooklyn.

 

 

Southern Brooklyn

 

B1: Bay Ridge, 86 St & Shore Road

Manhattan Beach, Kingsboro CC

Via 86 St.

(LTD)

 

B2: Mill Basin, E. 66 Street

Coney Island, Stillwell Avenue

Via Kings Hwy, Avenue R, Cropsey Avenue

(Via Ceaser’s Bay Mall, extended to replace shorter B82.)

 

B3: Bergen Beach, Veterans Avenue/Avenue U

Bath Beach, Shore Pkwy-Bay Pkwy

Via Avenue U.

 

B4: Bay Ridge, 86 St & Shore Road

Sheepshead Bay, Knapp St/Voohries Avenue

Via Bay Parkway

(Full time service to Sheepshead Bay)

 

B5: Kings Plaza, Avenue U/Flatbush Avenue

Bay Ridge, 69 St/Shore Road

Via Avenue P & 65 St

(NEW, LTD)

 

B6: Current route.

 

B7: Bed-Stuy, Halsey ST

Canarsie, E. 80 Street

Via Saratoga & Remsen Ave.

 

B8: Brownsville, Mother Gaston Bl.

Bay Ridge, 95 St Station

Via Avenue D & 18 Avenue

(Full time service to Bay Ridge)

 

B9: Current Route.

 

B10/B16:

Crown Heights, Utica Avenue

Bay Ridge, 86th St

Via 13 & 14 Avenue (B10) & via Ft. Hamilton Pkwy (B16)

 

B11: Current route.

 

B31: Gerritsen Beach, Lois Pl

Bath Beach, 14 Street

Via Gerritsen Avenue & Avenue P.

 

B32: Crown Heights, Utica Avenue

Mill Basin, E. 66 St

Via E. 56 Street & Kings Hwy

(Weekdays Only)

 

B37: Downtown Brooklyn, Court St

Bay Ridge, Shore Road

Via 3rd Avenue

(Weekdays Only)

 

B63: Current route in Bay Ridge.

 

B64: Bay Ridge, 86 St & 4th Avenue

Coney Island, Mermaid Loop

Via Bath & Cropsey Avenues

(Essentially a “southern” version of the B1.)

 

B68: Current route in Coney Island.

 

B70: Current route.

 

B81: Spring Creek-Gateway Center Mall

Midwood, Newkirk Plaza OR Brooklyn College (2)/ Station

Via Foster Avenue & Avenue D

 

B82: Starret City, Seaview Avenue WITH some trips to Gateway Center.

Midwood, CI Avenue/Quentin Road

Via Flatlands Avenue.

 

B100: Eliminated, see B2.

Edited May 15, 2012 by ThrexxBus

[B35 via Church]

lol... Well suddenly that area has a new name... They even have 3000 Emmons Avenue (the site of Thursday's meeting) as being in "Plumb Beach"... I've walked by that place plenty of times as a teenager and that area was always called Sheepshead Bay. Sounds like some sort of real estate ploy which clearly isn't working based on the number of empty condos all along Emmons Avenue. I honestly had never heard of Plumb Beach. I always thought that the end of Gerritsen Beach was the end there where Plumb Beach is (aside from Manhattan Beach of course). I never really paid attention to the map and I've never paid attention to the end of Gerritsen Avenue when I've been down there either.

 

heh... that real estate ploy you speak of, is ongoing throughout brooklyn so it seems... my personal favorite is the calling of bushwick "East Williamsburg".... full knowing bushwick has a negative stigma attached to it, and williamsburg been an "up & coming area" (another term I hate) for years now.....

 

The real question is (stealing your lingo for a sec... lol), why decide to introduce/call that area Plumb beach all of a sudden.... Don't think sheepshead bay fell off that hard, to where folks have to look to deem that particular part of sheepshead something else....

 

Those condo's & hotels along Emmons.... My theory is (and the timeline pans out too) when they were talking about possibly moving the nets down to Coney Island, that's when they started erecting those new condos & hotels..... If that's what developers were banking on, then it failed miserably - Those hotels for sure are gonna remain empty.... There's nothin in south brooklyn to warrant enough vacancies to fill up hotels in sheepshead.....