Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1526 Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) No, you're the one saying it's about efficiency issues, because I never said it was. Really? Then what was that about one route being less frequent and this nonsense about if one route screws up then you're SOL??? As for the B74 & B36, they're more frequent than the B2/B100, so the advantage would be lessened. Surely you could have a branch on the B36 cover the B74 portion if you wanted to... Both lines only run a few blocks away just like the B2 and B100, so if that's your lame argument then the same should apply here, but I think I know why you wouldn't propose that.... I've rode the X17J plenty of times, and it generally takes around 45 minutes to get into Midtown, assuming the backups aren't too bad (I mean, there's always the issue with merging into the bus lane by the Lincoln Tunnel, but still). If the X17J generally manages to stick to the schedule, You're going to tell me the X30 is so much slower even though they take the same route to get into Manhattan? Generally when??? Please we're talking about rush hours which is when the X30 and X42 run... The X17J bunches like crazy so I don't know where you get this generally sticking to the schedule BS from. You may live near it but I use it more than you do I can assure you of that. The X17C as well. Well, for starters, you were equidistant from the S44 & S48 (and you can lie all you want and pretend you weren't, but you know you were), and yet you only used the S44 once in the whole time you lived on SI (and you admitted it in the "Buses you've tried" thread). In that area, the S48 has more White riders than the S44, so you chose the "lesser of two evils" and took the S48 instead.Only a moron would use a bus that is further away from them. The only time that I used the S44 was because the S48 was MIA and I did not want to wait half an hour for the next one so I got on and asked if he stopped anywhere near Forest Avenue and he said yes but that I would have to walk a bit, but to say that the S44 is equidistant is an out and out lie. Also why would I walk further to that bus for when not only is it a schlepp, but there are fewer transportation options (i.e. no express buses)? Only a fool would do that. The X10 has a sizable amount of minorities, but it's still mostly White. I'll give you the X30, but when you're in a rush in the morning, it would be stupid to take a slower route just because it happens to have more White riders. Aside from that, it's not like the X30 doesn't see its share of White riders. What rush in the morning? If I was truly in a rush I would take car service to X17J not the X30... For your commute home, you were more picky in trying to avoid routes in minority areas. You knew the S54 was infrequent and had issues with reliability, and yet you still took it, when there were many more frequent alternatives available. You could've gotten off at Richmond Road and took the S53. You could've taken the bus to Forest & Richmond and caught the S44 or S48 (again, you can lie all you want, but the S44 was an option for you). But all 3 routes have a large minority ridership base, so you stuck with the S54. Once the S54 was taken away as an option (when they cut weekend service and late evening service), you still tried to avoid those alternate routes as much as you could. Instead of doing the simple thing and taking the X10 to the S53, you went to Slosson Avenue, walked to Victory Blvd, and took a Victory Blvd route to the S53. And conveniently, the S61/62/66 all have very few minority riders. It's an excuse to spend more time in White neighborhoods on routes with White people. Oh really??? I was "picky" because maybe I had to make stop offs before going home but I'm sure that never dawned on you because you're so busy with this ridiculous agenda of yours. The S54 happens to be near a supermarket and a post office, but yeah keep up with your agenda. Oh and the S54 also passes by housing projects with minorities which do ride on the line (the bus wasn't always empty) so if I was trying to avoid minorities then I failed again. And no I'm getting off in some poorly lit stop on Richmond Rd in a wooded looking area for a bus stop. Sorry but that's just foolish to do some nonsense like that. I notice that they've since put a bus shelter there now to make it better lit and safer. I've gotten off plenty of times and taken the X1 to the S53 or the X10 and walked over to the S53 stop at Targee which has a bus shelter with better lighting, so so much for that argument. As for Slosson, FYI, that stop is also a pick up point for car service and people being picked up, so yet again so much for that argument. There's also a store located there at Slosson and Victory to pick up snacks, etc, but yeah that never dawned on you... And the riders that were using it to reach Coney Island were of what ethnicity? Yeah, that's what I thought. You said yourself it was mainly used by Bath Beach riders, not riders in Coney Island. The route still ends in Coney Island which is mainly minority. If I was so concerned about who was riding I would've been fine letting it end where it currently does which is where? Bath Beach... I was concerned with connectivity. Edited December 1, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1527 Posted December 1, 2012 Really? Then what was that about one route being less frequent and this nonsense about if one route screws up then you're SOL??? Which had nothing to do with efficiency...... Surely you could have a branch on the B36 cover the B74 portion if you wanted to... Both lines only run a few blocks away just like the B2 and B100, so if that's your lame argument then the same should apply here, but I think I know why you wouldn't propose that.... Well, first of all, if I were to do that, I wouldn't have a branch do it. I'd just reroute every single bus down Mermaid Avenue. Having a branch would still have the same problem of the split frequencies, smart one. In any case, I guess it could be done as well. But since those two routes run more frequently than the B2/B100, there wouldn't be as much of an advantage to merging them. Generally when??? Please we're talking about rush hours which is when the X30 and X42 run... The X17J bunches like crazy so I don't know where you get this generally sticking to the schedule BS from. You may live near it but I use it more than you do I can assure you of that. The X17C as well. So you use it more than I do even though you live on the other side of the city. In any case, yes, I have used it relatively often, and I know that it usually takes around 45 minutes or so to reach Manhattan. Only a moron would use a bus that is further away from them. The only time that I used the S44 was because the S48 was MIA and I did not want to wait half an hour for the next one so I got on and asked if he stopped anywhere near Forest Avenue and he said yes but that I would have to walk a bit, but to say that the S44 is equidistant is an out and out lie. Also why would I walk further to that bus for when not only is it a schlepp, but there are fewer transportation options (i.e. no express buses)? Only a fool would do that. Like I said, you can lie all you want and say that they're not equidistant, but that is in fact, true. https://www.google.com/maps?saddr=Delafield+Avenue+at+Broadway&daddr=Broadway&hl=en&sll=40.629832,-74.116344&sspn=0.009592,0.01929&geocode=Fd_5awIdbhKV-yk9Imfec07CiTGFm_TGeoyiuA%3BFZvzawIdexOV-w&dirflg=w&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=16&t=m&z=16 (Distance to Forest Avenue) https://www.google.com/maps?saddr=Delafield+Avenue+at+Broadway&daddr=Broadway&hl=en&sll=40.629832,-74.116344&sspn=0.009592,0.01929&geocode=Fd_5awIdbhKV-yk9Imfec07CiTGFm_TGeoyiuA%3BFeIAbAIdMxGV-w&dirflg=w&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=16&t=m&z=16 (Distance to Cary Avenue) In fact, Cary Avenue is actually marginally closer. Like I said, you can sit there and lie all you want about it, but you know it's true. And this was before you knew about express buses, so spare me. And actually, the S54 was further away from you than the S53, and it was less frequent to boot, and yet you still used it. (You said it yourself that you lived down the block from the S53). What's the problem with the S44? What rush in the morning? If I was truly in a rush I would take car service to X17J not the X30... You're not as affluent as you make yourself out to be. That's all I have to say. You wouldn't have gone through the additional expense of taking a cab every single day to the X17J. Oh really??? I was "picky" because maybe I had to make stop offs before going home but I'm sure that never dawned on you because you're so busy with this ridiculous agenda of yours. The S54 happens to be near a supermarket and a post office, but yeah keep up with your agenda. Oh and the S54 also passes by housing projects with minorities which do ride on the line (the bus wasn't always empty) so I was trying to avoid minorities then I failed again. Nope. You specifically mentioned getting off at Slosson & Victory (which isn't near the post office) and taking the S61/62/66 to the S53. You've also mentioned specifically waiting an hour at that stop by Manor & Reon after having gotten off the X10. Yeah, there were times when you used it to go shopping at Key Food or whatever, but that's not what I'm talking about. And in terms of sheer numbers, the S54 doesn't have as many minorities because it's a low-ridership route in general. And no I'm getting off in some poorly lit stop on Richmond Rd in a wooded looking area for a bus stop. Sorry but that's just foolish to do some nonsense like that. I notice that they've since put a bus shelter there now to make it better lit and safer. I've gotten off plenty of times and taken the X1 to the S53 or the X10 and walked over to the S53 stop at Targee which has a bus shelter with better lighting, so so much for that argument. You could get off, walk back to the corner, wait by the gas station, and when the bus comes, you just cross the street again and walk to the bus stop. Aside from that, if you wanted to avoid that stop so much, you always had the option of going to Forest & Richmond and taking the S44 or S48 home. The route still ends in Coney Island which is mainly minority. If I was so concerned about who was riding I would've been fine letting it end where it currently does which is where? Bath Beach... I was concerned with connectivity. Connectivity for the White people that ride it..... It doesn't matter where it ends. Just because it ends in a certain area doesn't mean that the people from that area will necessarily ride that route. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1528 Posted December 1, 2012 And what's the big deal that you feel you need to waste a post for this? Why do you get to propose endless 'ideas' and get upset if people shoot it down? B2/100 merge is more sensable than that to Euclid idea in the B25 subway thread. Anyway, no point beating a dead horse, people don't want the merge, well fine. If they want to pay more or risk one of the 2 lines being cut, then so be it. True ohh the to euclid idea was a random proposal more fantasy that serious it's not in my typed proposal I used feedback here to get rid of the concepts that were guesses. All made different on these forums are just guesses and thesis posts rather than serious proposals the ones shot down here effectively do NOT make it to my real proposals that I actually would send to some of my friends or keep to discuss with planning buffs. But I respect your concern for the neighborhood I assure you that each case is unique I do in fact mold final drafts based on feedback from bus O/Ps and some influence here. I appear endless but in reality that is not the whole picture. I am NOT the only one proposing "endless ideas" many others are also guilty of the same thing yet I don't see you burning them for it which was why I thought you were just attacking me. The was only in response to posts here and just a random idea. Only a few of my actual final proposals were mentioned here. Such as BXM 18 streamlining yet I modified that one based on feedback from VG8. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1529 Posted December 1, 2012 Which had nothing to do with efficiency...... Still didn't answer the question so let me answer it for you... http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35015-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread-2012/page__st__1460?do=findComment&comment=614592 "There's nothing stopping one branch from going to Kings Plaza while the other goes to Mill Basin. You just have them keep the same route west of Flatbush Avenue. For peak headways, it doesn't matter when it's that frequent. For off-peak headways, then you'll see the benefits. Instead of running the buses every 20 minutes each, you run them every 10 minutes on the combined portion and every 20 minutes on the branches." Clearly you're arguing about efficiency... If not that then what??? So you use it more than I do even though you live on the other side of the city. In any case, yes, I have used it relatively often, and I know that it usually takes around 45 minutes or so to reach Manhattan. #1 you yourself said you don't go to the city much & #2 I travel all over the place all the time so unless you have a record of the trips I take somewhere, I don't see how you could know when I take the X17 or how often. As for 45 minutes that all depends on the time of day, where you board and traffic... Like I said, you can lie all you want and say that they're not equidistant, but that is in fact, true. https://www.google.c...&sz=16&t=m&z=16 (Distance to Forest Avenue) https://www.google.c...&sz=16&t=m&z=16 (Distance to Cary Avenue) In fact, Cary Avenue is actually marginally closer. Like I said, you can sit there and lie all you want about it, but you know it's true. And this was before you knew about express buses, so spare me. And actually, the S54 was further away from you than the S53, and it was less frequent to boot, and yet you still used it. (You said it yourself that you lived down the block from the S53). What's the problem with the S44? OMG... Maybe that's because I didn't live where you keep claiming I lived for starters. Yes, I did say the S53 was down the street from me, which is correct. I never said where down the street. All I said was that I took car service and sometimes we went down Delafield on the way home. I never said from where or why but in any event you've made up your mind that you know so keep believing that then. lol In short, the reason is simple. We were far closer walking to the S48. Simple as that, so none of us are going out of our way for another bus line when we have a bus right there. You're not as affluent as you make yourself out to be. That's all I have to say. You wouldn't have gone through the additional expense of taking a cab every single day to the X17J. Correction.... I'm not the bigot you're trying to make me out to be. On one hand you say you'll give me the fact that I used the X30 because I was in a rush to get to work, but then explain to me using it to get home as well?? That right there makes your argument look like a joke since I used the X30 more than anything else, even though it has a sizable amount of "minority riders" that I work so hard to avoid. Smh Nope. You specifically mentioned getting off at Slosson & Victory (which isn't near the post office) and taking the S61/62/66 to the S53. You've also mentioned specifically waiting an hour at that stop by Manor & Reon after having gotten off the X10. Yeah, there were times when you used it to go shopping at Key Food or whatever, but that's not what I'm talking about. And in terms of sheer numbers, the S54 doesn't have as many minorities because it's a low-ridership route in general. Hmm... Let's see... There is a store there that's conveniently located there at Slosson & Victory... If I was really trying to avoid anything, I wouldn't use the X10 to the S53 or the X1 to the S53. As for the S54, I don't know what numbers you're going off of to determine how many minorities use it but going off of personal observations the route has more minorities than whites when I've used it and I know for a fact that you don't use the route so just stop already. Maybe you've used it once while I used it regularly. There are plenty of minorities that get on and off by the Todt Hill projects for starters so cut the BS already. Connectivity for the White people that ride it..... It doesn't matter where it ends. Just because it ends in a certain area doesn't mean that the people from that area will necessarily ride that route. Connectivity to an area that's a minority neighborhood... Hmm... I wonder what I was thinking about... Smh You really do sound ridiculous with this nonsense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1530 Posted December 1, 2012 Seriously. This is completely off-topic. I don't want to be a moderator, but how is it constructive if you're calling each other elitist and bigots? C'mon, people... this is insane.... look at the thread topic... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1531 Posted December 1, 2012 I'm sure we're all aware of that. I think others were just ignoring it for now. Moving on, how is the B4 restoration going. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1532 Posted December 1, 2012 I'm sure we're all aware of that. I think others were just ignoring it for now. Moving on, how is the B4 restoration going. As long as the hasn't postponed any of the restorations, it should be on track for January 1st. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1533 Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Proposal to alter the B2, B31, B41, B100, and BM1 routes, and create a new route, the B101 (Midwood, Bergen Beach, and Mill Basin) First, B2/31/100: Proposal to alter the B2 and B31 routes - this route is short, but to me it has potential that is untapped. I would make the following changes to the route, including branching the service at its eastern end in a move that would also result in a significant service reduction of the B100 route. There would also be a renumbering involved to avoid confusion. For the B31, I would propose rerouting it to Quentin Road with stops added at Ocean Avenue, East 22 Street, and East 28 Street to continue to provide service to James Madison High School; the B100 service east of Fillmore would be reduced. For the B2, keep the current route west of Flatbush Avenue, but at Avenue U, instead of continuing into the Kings Plaza terminal, the B2 would turn left onto Avenue U and serve Kings Plaza via Macy's, and then continue along Avenue U to East 66 street. One branch, the B21, would then turn right onto East 66 Street to serve and terminate in Mill Basin, and the other (in what would restore a 2010 service/coverage elimination), the B22, would serve Bergen Beach and terminate at Avenue Y instead of Avenue X (to put the terminal alongside parkland). The B100 would be renumbered B23 to be scheduled with the B21 and B22. This is how a B21/2/3 schedule would work on the eastern end: Weekdays and Saturdays, B21 and B22 buses alternate on what is now the B22 line, and B21 and B23 buses alternate from Mill Basin. (B100 service would end at about 9 PM on weekdays and 6 PM on Saturdays.) Saturday and midday headways would be 15 minutes from Mill Basin and 30 minutes from Bergen Beach. Evenings and Sundays: B21 and B22 buses alternate, no B23 service, 15-minute headways. (Remember, B21 is B2 to Mill Basin, B22 is B2 to Bergen Beach, and B23 is what is now the B100.) Savings would be in significantly reduced deadhead mileage and the ability to free up buses for the B103 which needs additional rush hour and midday service. There would also be heavy interlining between the B2 and B31 to maintain the headways. I also anticipate new ridership, especially from Mill Basin, with the addition of a one-seat ride to Kings Plaza, and Bergen Beach would not be overserved. B41 next: Northern Bergen Beach has seen significant housing development made, but the coverage footprint has not changed. To that end, I would alter the B41 route this way: Instead of traveling along Veterans Avenue, at East 64 Street, the B41 would instead make a slight left and remain on Avenue N. The B41 would then turn right on East 71 Street and reach its current Bergen Beach terminus. To downtown Brooklyn, the B41 would travel up East 70 Street to Avenue N, make a left on Avenue N, and continue past East 64 Street to the current route. BM1 last but not least (and B101): Instead of using its current circuitous route which takes the route east to East 70 Street and then sharply back west on Veterans Avenue to Ralph, I would make this alteration: Leaving Mill Basin, via Avenue U, make a left on East 69 Street, continue to Avenue M, make a right on Avenue M, then a left on East 72 Street, and then a left on Avenue K and follow it past Ralph Avenue; the aim here would be to capture as much of Bergen Beach with commuter service to Manhattan given the massive development there in the last 20 years that has completed what had heretofore been a very fragmented map. (These are all two-way streets.) There would be a complementary B101 route that would also operate daily into this area that would run to Nostrand Junction off-peak and weekends and be extended to Downtown Brooklyn via the B103 route. Into Mill Basin, this route would leave at 25 and 55 past the hour. Edited December 1, 2012 by aemoreira81 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1534 Posted December 1, 2012 Proposal to alter the B2, B31, B41, B100, and BM1 routes (Midwood, Bergen Beach, and Mill Basin) First, B2/31/100: Proposal to alter the B2 and B31 routes - this route is short, but to me it has potential that is untapped. I would make the following changes to the route, including branching the service at its eastern end in a move that would also result in a significant service reduction of the B100 route. There would also be a renumbering involved to avoid confusion. For the B31, I would propose rerouting it to Quentin Road with stops added at Ocean Avenue, East 22 Street, and East 28 Street to continue to provide service to James Madison High School; the B100 service east of Fillmore would be reduced. For the B2, keep the current route west of Flatbush Avenue, but at Avenue U, instead of continuing into the Kings Plaza terminal, the B2 would turn left onto Avenue U and serve Kings Plaza via Macy's, and then continue along Avenue U to East 66 street. One branch, the B21, would then turn right onto East 66 Street to serve and terminate in Mill Basin, and the other (in what would restore a 2010 service/coverage elimination), the B22, would serve Bergen Beach and terminate at Avenue Y instead of Avenue X (to put the terminal alongside parkland). The B100 would be renumbered B23 to be scheduled with the B21 and B22. This is how a B21/2/3 schedule would work on the eastern end: Weekdays and Saturdays, B21 and B22 buses alternate on what is now the B22 line, and B21 and B23 buses alternate from Mill Basin. (B100 service would end at about 9 PM on weekdays and 6 PM on Saturdays.) Saturday and midday headways would be 15 minutes from Mill Basin and 30 minutes from Bergen Beach. Evenings and Sundays: B21 and B22 buses alternate, no B23 service, 15-minute headways. (Remember, B21 is B2 to Mill Basin, B22 is B2 to Bergen Beach, and B23 is what is now the B100.) Savings would be in significantly reduced deadhead mileage and the ability to free up buses for the B103 which needs additional rush hour and midday service. There would also be heavy interlining between the B2 and B31 to maintain the headways. I also anticipate new ridership, especially from Mill Basin, with the addition of a one-seat ride to Kings Plaza, and Bergen Beach would not be overserved. OK... There's no need for this much service going to Mill Basin and Bergen Beach, plain and simple. These residents are not only satisfied, they would protest more local bus service in their neighborhoods. It wouldn't work out with them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1535 Posted December 1, 2012 (edited) Still didn't answer the question so let me answer it for you... http://www.nyctransi...460#entry614592 "There's nothing stopping one branch from going to Kings Plaza while the other goes to Mill Basin. You just have them keep the same route west of Flatbush Avenue. For peak headways, it doesn't matter when it's that frequent. For off-peak headways, then you'll see the benefits. Instead of running the buses every 20 minutes each, you run them every 10 minutes on the combined portion and every 20 minutes on the branches." Clearly you're arguing about efficiency... If not that then what??? Well, that was your own words about efficiency. You only use quotes when they're somebody else's words. In any case, it wasn't about cost-efficiency because the route would basically be the same length as it is now, just down a slightly different street. I guess you could argue that it's more efficient utlilization of resources, but that would be a stretch, because you'd still basically be serving the same amount of riders you do today. #1 you yourself said you don't go to the city much & #2 I travel all over the place all the time so unless you have a record of the trips I take somewhere, I don't see how you could know when I take the X17 or how often. As for 45 minutes that all depends on the time of day, where you board and traffic... I've been living here for 8 years. Even if I didn't go to Manhattan that often, the sheer number of occasional trips I would take there would more than make up for it. (Aside from that, I used to take the express bus more often than I do now, and I've mentioned it in the past). And for the X17J, it only runs during rush hours, so there's no "depending on the time of day". Yeah, I know you have to take traffic into consideration (and I even mentioned that before), but generally, it takes about 45 minutes assuming normal conditions. OMG... Maybe that's because I didn't live where you keep claiming I lived for starters. Yes, I did say the S53 was down the street from me, which is correct. I never said where down the street. All I said was that I took car service and sometimes we went down Delafield on the way home. I never said from where or why but in any event you've made up your mind that you know so keep believing that then. lol In short, the reason is simple. We were far closer walking to the S48. Simple as that, so none of us are going out of our way for another bus line when we have a bus right there. Like I said, you can lie all you want, but you did live there, whether you want to admit it or not. You've mentioned a million times how "Delafield is the real dividing line" and all that crap, when out of all my friends in that area, literally nobody thinks like that. You could use Cary Avenue as the dividing line between the "good" and "bad" parts, and Forest Avenue as the dividing line between the "decent" and "nice" parts, but nobody considers Delafield Avenue any kind of dividing line. Therefore, the only way you would be going out of your way to say "Delafield is the real dividing line" is if you lived there and wanted to feel better about yourself. Put two and two together. You've mentioned several times how you lived by Elizabeth Street. Then you talk about how Delafield is our part of West Brighton. Then you specifically mention Delafield between Broadway & Elizabeth. Well, you've mentioned that you lived down the block from the S53, which runs on Broadway, and you've mentioned Elizabeth Street, so that means you lived between Broadway & Elizabeth. Then you specifically mention Delafield between Broadway & Elizabeth, so I have to believe you live there. (On top of harping on Delafield Avenue countless times, when nobody in that area considers it anything special). Not to mention the way you know for a fact that there are two houses full of Mexicans on that specific block. You're not talking about Mexicans in that neighborhood, you're talking about Mexicans on that specific block, and the fact that you know that two houses have a lot of Mexicans living in them. You always dump out a ton of personal information on here, whether by accident or intentional. This is just one more example of that. The evidence is overwhelming that you lived there. Correction.... I'm not the bigot you're trying to make me out to be. On one hand you say you'll give me the fact that I used the X30 because I was in a rush to get to work, but then explain to me using it to get home as well?? That right there makes your argument look like a joke since I used the X30 more than anything else, even though it has a sizable amount of "minority riders" that I work so hard to avoid. Smh You said you've used the X14 more often going back, because it wasn't as delayed in the afternoon as in the morning. In any case, the X30 still has a large White ridership base, and aside from that, when you're on the express bus, you generally get the seat to yourself, so you're not interacting too much with the other riders anyway. Hmm... Let's see... There is a store there that's conveniently located there at Slosson & Victory... If I was really trying to avoid anything, I wouldn't use the X10 to the S53 or the X1 to the S53. As for the S54, I don't know what numbers you're going off of to determine how many minorities use it but going off of personal observations the route has more minorities than whites when I've used it and I know for a fact that you don't use the route so just stop already. Maybe you've used it once while I used it regularly. There are plenty of minorities that get on and off by the Todt Hill projects for starters so cut the BS already. Like I said, it's the lesser of two evils in your eyes. The S48 has a lot of minority riders, but still fewer than the S44, so you used that. The same way the S54 has fewer minority riders than the S53. The minorities by the West Brighton Houses are too busy using the S46 & S53 to bother with the S54. I know that for a fact from years of going through that area. Sure, you have the Todt Hill Houses, but ridership overall is low. And a lot of them walk over to Victory for the routes there, because the S54 is infrequent and unreliable, so like I said, the S54 has fewer minority riders than the S53. And I've used the S54 a lot more than once. Connectivity to an area that's a minority neighborhood... Hmm... I wonder what I was thinking about... Smh You really do sound ridiculous with this nonsense. There's no point in going on with this. Yes, it helps the White riders trying to get to a minority neighborhood. BM1 last but not least (and B101): Instead of using its current circuitous route which takes the route east to East 70 Street and then sharply back west on Veterans Avenue to Ralph, I would make this alteration: Leaving Mill Basin, via Avenue U, make a left on East 69 Street, continue to Avenue M, make a right on Avenue M, then a left on East 72 Street, and then a left on Avenue K and follow it past Ralph Avenue; the aim here would be to capture as much of Bergen Beach with commuter service to Manhattan given the massive development there in the last 20 years that has completed what had heretofore been a very fragmented map. (These are all two-way streets.) There would be a complementary B101 route that would also operate daily into this area that would run to Nostrand Junction off-peak and weekends and be extended to Downtown Brooklyn via the B103 route. Into Mill Basin, this route would leave at 25 and 55 past the hour. The B41, BM1 & B101 sounds alright, and I guess the B31 plan sounds alright. With the service to Bergen Beach, I think you're better off just extending the B3 back there, if you really want to serve them. Edited December 1, 2012 by checkmatechamp13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe via Willow Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1536 Posted December 1, 2012 For what purpose? Because/being it's a Bkln oriented/tailored route. It was made for the multitudes of CSIers who live in Bkln. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 1, 2012 Share #1537 Posted December 1, 2012 Because/being it's a Bkln oriented/tailored route. It was made for the multitudes of CSIers who live in Bkln. That may have been the case when it first came out, but it's not really the case now. You have a large amount of SI residents using to reach Brooklyn, and you also have some people using it within SI as well. Why do you think the stops by Hylan Blvd & Fingerboard Road were added? To help SI residents, not Brooklyn-bound CSI students. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted December 2, 2012 Share #1538 Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) Proposal to alter the B2, B31, B41, B100, and BM1 routes, and create a new route, the B101 (Midwood, Bergen Beach, and Mill Basin) First, B2/31/100: Proposal to alter the B2 and B31 routes - this route is short, but to me it has potential that is untapped. I would make the following changes to the route, including branching the service at its eastern end in a move that would also result in a significant service reduction of the B100 route. There would also be a renumbering involved to avoid confusion. For the B31, I would propose rerouting it to Quentin Road with stops added at Ocean Avenue, East 22 Street, and East 28 Street to continue to provide service to James Madison High School; the B100 service east of Fillmore would be reduced. For the B2, keep the current route west of Flatbush Avenue, but at Avenue U, instead of continuing into the Kings Plaza terminal, the B2 would turn left onto Avenue U and serve Kings Plaza via Macy's, and then continue along Avenue U to East 66 street. One branch, the B21, would then turn right onto East 66 Street to serve and terminate in Mill Basin, and the other (in what would restore a 2010 service/coverage elimination), the B22, would serve Bergen Beach and terminate at Avenue Y instead of Avenue X (to put the terminal alongside parkland). The B100 would be renumbered B23 to be scheduled with the B21 and B22. This is how a B21/2/3 schedule would work on the eastern end: Weekdays and Saturdays, B21 and B22 buses alternate on what is now the B22 line, and B21 and B23 buses alternate from Mill Basin. (B100 service would end at about 9 PM on weekdays and 6 PM on Saturdays.) Saturday and midday headways would be 15 minutes from Mill Basin and 30 minutes from Bergen Beach. Evenings and Sundays: B21 and B22 buses alternate, no B23 service, 15-minute headways. (Remember, B21 is B2 to Mill Basin, B22 is B2 to Bergen Beach, and B23 is what is now the B100.) Savings would be in significantly reduced deadhead mileage and the ability to free up buses for the B103 which needs additional rush hour and midday service. There would also be heavy interlining between the B2 and B31 to maintain the headways. I also anticipate new ridership, especially from Mill Basin, with the addition of a one-seat ride to Kings Plaza, and Bergen Beach would not be overserved. B41 next: Northern Bergen Beach has seen significant housing development made, but the coverage footprint has not changed. To that end, I would alter the B41 route this way: Instead of traveling along Veterans Avenue, at East 64 Street, the B41 would instead make a slight left and remain on Avenue N. The B41 would then turn right on East 71 Street and reach its current Bergen Beach terminus. To downtown Brooklyn, the B41 would travel up East 70 Street to Avenue N, make a left on Avenue N, and continue past East 64 Street to the current route. BM1 last but not least (and B101): Instead of using its current circuitous route which takes the route east to East 70 Street and then sharply back west on Veterans Avenue to Ralph, I would make this alteration: Leaving Mill Basin, via Avenue U, make a left on East 69 Street, continue to Avenue M, make a right on Avenue M, then a left on East 72 Street, and then a left on Avenue K and follow it past Ralph Avenue; the aim here would be to capture as much of Bergen Beach with commuter service to Manhattan given the massive development there in the last 20 years that has completed what had heretofore been a very fragmented map. (These are all two-way streets.) There would be a complementary B101 route that would also operate daily into this area that would run to Nostrand Junction off-peak and weekends and be extended to Downtown Brooklyn via the B103 route. Into Mill Basin, this route would leave at 25 and 55 past the hour. What exactly is all this? You are complicating things for absolutely no reason at all dude.... -B31 diversion on quentin instead of av R -B2 extended & branched towards mill basin or bergen beach -B100 renamed B23 -B41 veterans branch diverted into a portion of residential georgetown before terminating where it currently does -BM1 diverted throughout residential georgetown -"B101" that runs through the exact same portions your BM1 diversion does, enroute to running to the junction & downtown bklyn..... I don't know where to begin with this... - First off, forget about diverting the BM1 like that.... You are actually prolonging the route by doing that, and is by far the most ridiculous on here..... There is nothing wrong with the BM1 routing out there (especially considering what the BM1 used to do; taking mill to get to av U); the backtrack it makes after serving mill basin to serve all of veterans, en route to Ralph av, the MTA has it right the way the general catchment area was streamlined.... As nice a gesture as it is, buses can't run in front of everyone's house.... You're making it an issue about coverage w/ the BM1 where there really is none... Worse, you want to run a local counterpart through that area (which I'll get to later)..... I love how you try to sell the growth of georgetown to justify extending buses deep into the area... Pure gold..... The current BM1 is much less circuitous down there as your diversion idea being meandering..... - Your B31 diversion is probably the best idea of the bunch... While you would take those madison kids (and other madison residents; yeah, I know, no one refers to that area as "madison" no more; but it's not midwood nor is it marine park to me) off the hands of the B100 at the subway, you would be prolonging the commute for the gerritsen folks to the subway.... Yeah, what you want to do w/ the B2 would classify as such, but this here is not untapped potential as much as it is you shifting ridership to another route.... - Your whole B21/22/23 thing.... While your attempt to restore service to Bergen Beach (what was cut from the B3) is noble, I'm not seeing what would make you think those residents would take your 22, over the old 3... It's not about location served (av u on the B3, compared to [commercial kings hwy & the opportunity to catch the express on your 22]) as to why people weren't taking buses.... Some of you are just going to have to face facts that everyone does not want buses running in their neighborhoods.... Bergen beach got political clout; if they REALLY wanted the B3 (or any semblance of bus service) back, that ish would've happened quick fast & in a hurry...... Lol..... The only real difference between your 21 & the real 100 (your 23) is fillmore av service.... Couldn't decide on getting rid of [the B100 b/w flatbush & av U to have the 100 serve kings plz. instead] or [the B2 routing in marine park to kings plz.]), could you.... Your whole plan entails "layering"..... I mean, these B2/31/100 discussions always boil down to the same dilemma - trying to find a way to serve kings plaza & mill basin as efficiently as possible w/o screwing fillmore av folks..... - What else.... alright man, this B101 thing..... How much help does the B41 need? You already have the B103 running b/w downtown & the junction, and the Q35 running b/w the junction & kings plaza..... You would now be adding yet another layer of service along flatbush av - this time to try to serve a few folks in what is basically car & express bus country.... I mean dude, you got the 41 running up av N in georgetown, this B101 running throughout a good chunk of georgetown, and the BM1 diverted in georgetown..... Talk about oversaturation...... Your 101 would garner usage only because it would be a supplement/another option over the B41 towards bergen beach..... Not due to some farfetched notion of (enough) unique residents in georgetown & bergen beach taking it to the junction or downtown brooklyn..... Like, this isn't canarsie & the 103 we're talking about here. I understand ambition, but good grief, this is a bit much...... Edited December 2, 2012 by B35 via Church 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted December 2, 2012 Share #1539 Posted December 2, 2012 (edited) OK... There's no need for this much service going to Mill Basin and Bergen Beach, plain and simple. These residents are not only satisfied, they would protest more local bus service in their neighborhoods. It wouldn't work out with them. lol... I wonder where you heard that from? I still think about that Bergen Beach route you made a while back. Savings would be in significantly reduced deadhead mileage and the ability to free up buses for the B103 which needs additional rush hour and midday service. There would also be heavy interlining between the B2 and B31 to maintain the headways. I also anticipate new ridership, especially from Mill Basin, with the addition of a one-seat ride to Kings Plaza, and Bergen Beach would not be overserved. And you think any community is just going to sit back and allow their bus service to be taken away so that the B103 and the communities it serves can be more catered to?? LOL! Like I said, you can lie all you want, but you did live there, whether you want to admit it or not. You've mentioned a million times how "Delafield is the real dividing line" and all that crap, when out of all my friends in that area, literally nobody thinks like that. You could use Cary Avenue as the dividing line between the "good" and "bad" parts, and Forest Avenue as the dividing line between the "decent" and "nice" parts, but nobody considers Delafield Avenue any kind of dividing line. Therefore, the only way you would be going out of your way to say "Delafield is the real dividing line" is if you lived there and wanted to feel better about yourself. Put two and two together. You've mentioned several times how you lived by Elizabeth Street. Then you talk about how Delafield is our part of West Brighton. Then you specifically mention Delafield between Broadway & Elizabeth. Well, you've mentioned that you lived down the block from the S53, which runs on Broadway, and you've mentioned Elizabeth Street, so that means you lived between Broadway & Elizabeth. Then you specifically mention Delafield between Broadway & Elizabeth, so I have to believe you live there. (On top of harping on Delafield Avenue countless times, when nobody in that area considers it anything special). Not to mention the way you know for a fact that there are two houses full of Mexicans on that specific block. You're not talking about Mexicans in that neighborhood, you're talking about Mexicans on that specific block, and the fact that you know that two houses have a lot of Mexicans living in them. You always dump out a ton of personal information on here, whether by accident or intentional. This is just one more example of that. The evidence is overwhelming that you lived there. lol... Yeah if you go through an area regularly enough as I did for several years, it's not that hard to figure these things out. We went down Delafield a lot in car service back particularly when Elizabeth and Delafield were two way streets to avoid traffic on Forest smart one. And yes I mentioned Elizabeth, but I also mentioned living near Forest Av. Elizabeth runs south into a street that would a) allow one to see the S53 down the block and b) have a fairly easy walk to the S54 (which was generally quicker than the S53, which I mentioned in fact) and X14 and be pretty damn close to the X30 and S48, but certainly not "equidistant" to the S44. That would explain why I'd get off with the X14 at night by the SI Zoo... So like I said nice try but wrong again. As for seeing Delafield as the dividing line, yes I did because quite frankly going further north of that I'd say that some of the houses look quite scary and run down though Delafield had a few too in certain parts now that I think about it. I know first hand because when there was no bus service during that strike because I walked to the ferry the first few days. You said you've used the X14 more often going back, because it wasn't as delayed in the afternoon as in the morning. In any case, the X30 still has a large White ridership base, and aside from that, when you're on the express bus, you generally get the seat to yourself, so you're not interacting too much with the other riders anyway. Like I said, it's the lesser of two evils in your eyes. The S48 has a lot of minority riders, but still fewer than the S44, so you used that. The same way the S54 has fewer minority riders than the S53. The minorities by the West Brighton Houses are too busy using the S46 & S53 to bother with the S54. I know that for a fact from years of going through that area. Sure, you have the Todt Hill Houses, but ridership overall is low. And a lot of them walk over to Victory for the routes there, because the S54 is infrequent and unreliable, so like I said, the S54 has fewer minority riders than the S53. And I've used the S54 a lot more than once. lol... This is hilarious... First you say I take the Victory Blvd buses to avoid the minorities, but then here you say that a lot of them walk to Victory Blvd to take the same Victory Blvd buses that I take to "avoid them". LOL! Most of the local buses on Staten Island are mainly used by minority riders, so if I was really looking to "avoid them" I wouldn't be using the local buses at all. The contradictions are just amazing. There's no point in going on with this. Yes, it helps the White riders trying to get to a minority neighborhood. Yes there's no point because it defeats your whole argument. Edited December 2, 2012 by Via Garibaldi 8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 2, 2012 Share #1540 Posted December 2, 2012 lol... I wonder where you heard that from? I still think about that Bergen Beach route you made a while back. ...because the route looked awkward ending at Ralph Avenue.... It wasn't because his main focus was serving Bergen Beach with that route. And you think any community is just going to sit back and allow their bus service to be taken away so that the B103 and the communities it serves can be more catered to?? LOL! First of all, he's not "taking away" any service. He's just consolidating the service onto one street similar to the way I did. Second of all, if the service is needed due to overcrowding, it's not exactly "catering" to the communities it serves. lol... Yeah if you go through an area regularly enough as I did for several years, it's not that hard to figure these things out. We went down Delafield a lot in car service back particularly when Elizabeth and Delafield were two way streets to avoid traffic on Forest smart one. And yes I mentioned Elizabeth, but I also mentioned living near Forest Av. Elizabeth runs south into a street that would a) allow one to see the S53 down the block and b) have an easy walk to the S54 and X14 and be pretty damn close to the X30 and S48, but certainly not "equidistant" to the S44. So like I said nice try but wrong again. As for seeing Delafield as the dividing yes I did because quite frankly going further north of that I'd say that some of the houses look quite scary and run down though Delafield had a few too in certain parts now that I think about it. I know first hand because when there was no bus service during that strike because I walked to the ferry the first few days. Delafield is near Forest Avenue, isn't it? It's just north of it. And you expect me to believe that you're scared shitless of Graniteville & Mariners' Harbor, which are "too urban" for you, and yet Delafield is this wonderful neighborhood? Yeah, OK. A spoiled person from the South Shore is going to be scared shitless of both Graniteville/Mariners' Harbor and Delafield Avenue. No way in hell are they going to be thinking Delafield Avenue is this wonderful area, while Graniteville/Mariners' Harbor are crime-filled slums. Somebody with that snobby attitude is going to think Forest Avenue is the dividing line, not Delafield. Point-blank, period. Yeah, there's Randall Manor & Silver Lake further east, which are nice and people usually give a pass to, but that's not in that immediate area. Graniteville is south of Forest Avenue, and yet you think an area north of Forest is so much better than an area south of it? This is in that area south of Delafield, and you could easily find that type of block in Port Richmond (for instance, here, here, and here). You're going to tell me that the neighborhood between Delafield & Forest is so much better than areas you're scared shitless of? How about I give you a couple of shots of Mariners' Harbor and Graniteville, both crime-filled slums in your eyes? You're going to tell me that you're scared of those areas, but yet Delafield is this wonderful neighborhood? And I've been in all these neighborhoods (including Delafield Avenue) to clarify that there's nothing special about Delafield. And when you take car service to go home, you're coming back at night. There isn't that much traffic along Forest Avenue in that area, at that hour, where it would be worth going all the way up to Cary and all the way back down south of Forest. The driver could take Clove to Purcell to Broadway to reach Clove Lake Place. Aside from that, I like how you still haven't responded to the fact that you know so much about that particular block. How do you know that the closer you get to Elizabeth Street, the more Whites there are? How do you know that there are two houses full of Mexicans on that particular block? Somebody who's that snobby shouldn't even be spending that much time on that block to be able to know those details. I'll repeat it again, if somebody is that snobby, they won't go anywhere north of Forest Avenue, when they're around Broadway. Point-blank, period. lol... This is hilarious... First you say I take the Victory Blvd buses to avoid the minorities, but then here you say that a lot of them walk to Victory Blvd to take the same Victory Blvd buses that I take to "avoid them". LOL! Some of the people from those projects, who don't take the S54 walk over to Victory for the routes over there, but the routes on Victory have a bunch of riders from the other neighborhoods they serve, which are mostly White neighborhoods. So you have a few minorities who get on by Manor Road, and the rest of the riders are mostly White. That's like saying the B1 & B4 have a ton of minority riders because they serve the Gravesend Houses. Do they get a few? Of course, but most riders on those routes are White. Aside from that, even if there were a significant number of minority riders on the Victory Blvd routes, it's still fewer than the ones on the S53. Yeah, you took it eventually, but you figured you might as well spend some more time with White riders. If you lived in that area, you don't exactly have a choice of White-filled bus routes there. You have the S48, S53, S54, and (even though you don't want to admit it), the S44. None of those routes have a large White ridership base, but they're your only options when the X14 & X30 stop running. Yes there's no point because it defeats your whole argument. Yeah, ha, ha. The riders who would benefit from the increased connectivity would be White. The fact that they're connecting in a minority neighborhood is immaterial. The primary beneficiaries would be those living in the Bath Beach area, not those living in Coney Island. That's like saying that the S61 & S62 primarily benefit minority riders by the fact they end in St. George. Yeah, some get on, but most of the riders are White. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1541 Posted December 3, 2012 Continuing with proposals, would it be too much to extend the B74 anywhere? Considering there has been a decent demand for service on Neptune Ave, why not extend the B74 from Stillwell Ave, so that it's routing continues eastbound on Neptune Avenue. Routing could be Stillwell - Neptune/Emmons -Knapp - Ave X - Ocean Ave - Ave U - terminate at Kings Plaza. It already serves Sea Gate and Coney Island, but this extension adds Brighton Beach and East Sheepshead Bay before terminating at Kings Plaza. Any thoughts on the routing and/or feasiblity of this route. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1542 Posted December 3, 2012 Continuing with proposals, would it be too much to extend the B74 anywhere? Considering there has been a decent demand for service on Neptune Ave, why not extend the B74 from Stillwell Ave, so that it's routing continues eastbound on Neptune Avenue. Routing could be Stillwell - Neptune/Emmons -Knapp - Ave X - Ocean Ave - Ave U - terminate at Kings Plaza. It already serves Sea Gate and Coney Island, but this extension adds Brighton Beach and East Sheepshead Bay before terminating at Kings Plaza. Any thoughts on the routing and/or feasiblity of this route. Well, the B74 serves as a backup to the B36 when it gets delayed (which is often), so I'd say to just leave it there. Aside from that, having it take Knapp-Avenue X-Ocean-Avenue U is circuitous for no good reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1543 Posted December 3, 2012 Continuing with proposals, would it be too much to extend the B74 anywhere? Considering there has been a decent demand for service on Neptune Ave, why not extend the B74 from Stillwell Ave, so that it's routing continues eastbound on Neptune Avenue. Routing could be Stillwell - Neptune/Emmons -Knapp - Ave X - Ocean Ave - Ave U - terminate at Kings Plaza. It already serves Sea Gate and Coney Island, but this extension adds Brighton Beach and East Sheepshead Bay before terminating at Kings Plaza. Any thoughts on the routing and/or feasiblity of this route. The B74 is like the B42. A feeder. Leave them alone. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1544 Posted December 3, 2012 While I do realize that the B74 is a feeder, I was trying to see what could be accomplished with current resouces. Anyway, the circutous routing was to serve the underserved Ave X, connect with routes at Ocean, then supplement the B3, thus giving it a direct route to Kings Plaza. Still if the route was seperate from the B74, would it have a chance? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1545 Posted December 3, 2012 Well, the B74 serves as a backup to the B36 when it gets delayed (which is often), so I'd say to just leave it there. Aside from that, having it take Knapp-Avenue X-Ocean-Avenue U is circuitous for no good reason. This extended B74 will be a backup for B36's entire route think beyond the short scope please but then again it is not within your ability. However the last part is circuitous I agree with you on that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1546 Posted December 3, 2012 In a way it is, but it also provides service to the underserved. Thnaks for looking at the positives though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1547 Posted December 3, 2012 In a way it is, but it also provides service to the underserved. Thnaks for looking at the positives though. That is how I think actually I look into all possible scenarios for a route then restructure to create better connectivity. I think into how many people can be impacted then go for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1548 Posted December 3, 2012 Pretty much the basics of route creation. Though, I'm wondering still if the route still has flaws at this point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1549 Posted December 3, 2012 Pretty much the basics of route creation. Though, I'm wondering still if the route still has flaws at this point. Like it's been said, it's circuitous, and it will dampen or even sever a vital Sea Gate connection. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qjtransitmaster Posted December 3, 2012 Share #1550 Posted December 3, 2012 Pretty much the basics of route creation. Though, I'm wondering still if the route still has flaws at this point. basically get rid of the slow part and its good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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