Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #51 Posted July 16, 2012 Obviously, the M5 would be cut back to Greenwich Village. As much as I like the M5 weekend LTD idea, there hasn't been weekend LTD service for years, I don't see it coming back now. Yeah well it would be used and is needed. I have a hard time believing that it wasn't always limited on the weekends, but then again I was probably using the M104 to get to the East Side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #52 Posted July 16, 2012 Yeah well it would be used and is needed. I have a hard time believing that it wasn't always limited on the weekends, but then again I was probably using the M104 to get to the East Side... There hasn't been LTD on weekends since at least 2003 (when I first used the M5). I believe it's been gone since the mid-90's... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #53 Posted July 16, 2012 There hasn't been LTD on weekends since at least 2003 (when I first used the M5). I believe it's been gone since the mid-90's... Well if the M6 was brought back I would see no need to have the M5 run local on weekends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 16, 2012 Share #54 Posted July 16, 2012 This is a surefire sign of a fare hike coming.....yay!! /sarcasm This is why I haven't said anything in this thread up until this point.... All of a sudden they want to restore routes... I'm supposed to believe they're just gonna up & throw the concept of "cost neutrality" out the window, yeah right..... I thought the MTA was so cash-strapped.... now they came up on $90 million somehow..... How far is that amount of money really gonna go (especially considering whichever route that would end up being brought back.... which at this point, I don't even care about bothering to speculate which ones) before the riders will be hit with the scare of a fare increase..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #55 Posted July 16, 2012 Well if the M6 was brought back I would see no need to have the M5 run local on weekends. Speaking of which, I was looking for evidence of weekend M5 service and I instead found that the M7 had LTD service until 1993. That, IMO should be restored, as it would make both corridors it runs on much more reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #56 Posted July 16, 2012 Speaking of which, I was looking for evidence of weekend M5 service and I instead found that the M7 had LTD service until 1993. That, IMO should be restored, as it would make both corridors it runs on much more reliable. Would be nice if the M7 had it but I don't see it coming to the line anytime soon. Not enough ridership there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #57 Posted July 16, 2012 Would be nice if the M7 had it but I don't see it coming to the line anytime soon. Not enough ridership there IMO. Not enough ridership where? The M7 gets just as crowded as the M5. It deserves the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #58 Posted July 16, 2012 Not enough ridership where? The M7 gets just as crowded as the M5. It deserves the service. I mean not enough ridership to sustain itself as being a limited stop bus. Yes it gets ridership, but a lot of usage comes from the local stops too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share #59 Posted July 16, 2012 This is why I haven't said anything in this thread up until this point.... All of a sudden they want to restore routes... I'm supposed to believe they're just gonna up & throw the concept of "cost neutrality" out the window, yeah right..... I thought the MTA was so cash-strapped.... now they came up on $90 million somehow..... How far is that amount of money really gonna go (especially considering whichever route that would end up being brought back.... which at this point, I don't even care about bothering to speculate which ones) before the riders will be hit with the scare of a fare increase..... BRO the article said the "surprise" surplus came from near record ridership on subway, bus and LIRR/MNRR lines systemwide. You dont have to agree but pointing it out. FYI. As part of the state MTA business tax agreed in 2009/'10, there suppose to be a fare hike every 2-3 years so a price hike is due now anyhow. You B35 make a point that instead of a 25 cent increase to pay for the service increase, the base fare might go up to $2.75. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #60 Posted July 16, 2012 I mean not enough ridership to sustain itself as being a limited stop bus. Yes it gets ridership, but a lot of usage comes from the local stops too. I didn't mean LTD only, I meant local/LTD like other rush hour LTD routes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #61 Posted July 16, 2012 I didn't mean LTD only, I meant local/LTD like other rush hour LTD routes... Oh well that I could see. I mean the M1 and M4 have it and they both do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #62 Posted July 16, 2012 Oh well that I could see. I mean the M1 and M4 have it and they both do well. I also think that Bx7 service could use an increase.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #63 Posted July 16, 2012 I also think that Bx7 service could use an increase.... Perhaps but it would do better is the buses didn't bunch so much. I still think the line would be great with artics at certain times of the day, but new ones though so that they can get up the steep hills in Riverdale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threxx Posted July 16, 2012 Share #64 Posted July 16, 2012 Perhaps but it would do better is the buses didn't bunch so much. I still think the line would be great with artics at certain times of the day, but new ones though so that they can get up the steep hills in Riverdale. LFSA's on the Bx7/Bx10? I'm not so sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #65 Posted July 16, 2012 LFSA's on the Bx7/Bx10? I'm not so sure... Not the Bx10... Not needed... Just at certain parts of the day on the Bx7. I've proposed the idea before and folks familiar with Riverdale thought the idea wasn't a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #66 Posted July 16, 2012 In Queens I think the Q74 will return rush hours only 6:20-9:00 and 2:20-7:00pm. the Q79 will return with the same service and the X51 might return. If not maybe weekend Q31 service may return but at 20 to 30 minute headways. For manhattan maybe the M5 will be cut back to its former terminal and have a new route cover the way to the South Ferry. And the other part of the M10 will be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share #67 Posted July 16, 2012 Guys it wont be revelaed until next week at the next monthly meeting will the list come out with specific list. I am sure "Mr insider" amtrak7 already has that list. It expected to be approved in August for a late year/early 2013 start ie. restored services, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #68 Posted July 16, 2012 The one that is clear is that they got the message that folks are not happy with those service cuts are more importantly being smashed in like sardine cans. They need to restore as much service as they can and not restore anything that could be on the chopping block again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtNovaBusRTS9369 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #69 Posted July 16, 2012 In Queens I think the Q74 will return rush hours only 6:20-9:00 and 2:20-7:00pm. the Q79 will return with the same service and the X51 might return. If not maybe weekend Q31 service may return but at 20 to 30 minute headways. For manhattan maybe the M5 will be cut back to its former terminal and have a new route cover the way to the South Ferry. And the other part of the M10 will be restored. Out of the routes that was mentioned the most likely would be the Q74's & Q79's return. The Q31's weekend service can't come back unless frequency is hourly. Before the cuts whenever I saw the Q31 on a weekend, the trips would only carry 3-5 people & other times air as it already ran with the frequencies you mentioned. Very similar to the Q76's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #70 Posted July 16, 2012 Out of the routes that was mentioned the most likely would be the Q74's & Q79's return. The Q31's weekend service can't come back unless frequency is hourly. Before the cuts whenever I saw the Q31 on a weekend, the trips would only carry 3-5 people & other times air as it already ran with the frequencies you mentioned. Very similar to the Q76's case. Oh ok so the X51 should return instead I don't think those New Flyer D45 Vikings ever got scrapped so they can run and some of QV's and CP's buses. I think the X51 only needs about 10-12 buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amtrak7 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #71 Posted July 16, 2012 No, I don't have the list, Shortline. I'll get it Thursday evening or Friday afternoon (or if the MTA decides to be secretive, on Monday morning). As luck would have it, this issue comes up on the very first committee meeting I decide to attend in person. In my opinion... 1) Service cuts that definitely should be restored B64 Coney Island B4 Sheepshead Bay B24 weekend Q79 rush hours M104 to GCT M21 weekend (or M8, pick one) M6 X90, X29 2) Service cuts that definitely should NOT be restored M1 weekends April-November X25, X51, X20 B77/B75 (add buses to the B61/B57, don't split) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted July 16, 2012 Share #72 Posted July 16, 2012 If Artics on the Bx7 or 10 means fewer buses on the road, my answer is a resounding no. Via, as for your thing about people moving to an area and not using cheap transit, I told you before that not everybody has a choice to live there. Children who grow up in the area did not telepath to their parents that they wanted to live in these neighborhoods when they were egg cells/embryos/fetuses. Additionally, cheap transit takes you to a lot more places of interest than luxury transit and not everybody can afford luxury transit just because they live in affluent areas. Cheap transit is also infinitely more economical and provides more flexibility than luxury transit (especially EXP buses) thanks to the unlimited metrocard. In any case, as I stated before, this is my opinion: -Killing the Bx20 and sending the M100 up there is not a bad idea. I would accept this. -But I think it would be better to kill the Bx20 and add service to the Bx7 and Bx10. -If the Bx20 is to stay, it needs to make only the stops I listed outside of Riverdale and it needs to run as frequently as I said it should in post #25. -If neither of these conditions is satisfied, then I am in total disagreement and continue to be frustrated by the state of local bus service along the Bx10/20 (and sometimes 7) corridor and hope it gets fixed. I should add that I feel that when people make a stink about service cuts they need to do a better job of looking at the big picture. I say this because for the life of me I will never understand why people would insist on keeping a bus line as erratic and infrequent as the Bx20, even just during rush hours, without saying anything about the line's anemic service levels or considering the anemic service levels of the Bx10, when they should have realized that the IND is a rather useless line for Riverdale since the IRT and IND parallel each other from one end of Manhattan to the other and that the Bx20 does an inconsistent and crappy job of relieving the Bx7/10 and it has been that way for years, and when they would have accomplished much more by just saying that the Bx20 just be cut completely and the Bx10 should get a service increase or something. Or by saying that the Bx20 should be a super-limited outside of Riverdale as I stated before. That would make it a much more effective IND connector. Seriously, what the hell good is a connection to another subway line (that parallels the closest one from one end of Manhattan to the other to boot) if it is faster to use that connection to just reach the closest line (IRT) than to reach the second available line (IND)? IT just results in uneven headways when it comes to service to the IRT when the buses could just be put on the Bx10 so there can be even headways when it comes to service to the IRT and the more important line can have its help east of Broadway as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted July 16, 2012 Share #73 Posted July 16, 2012 I also should have said that depending on who moves into the neighborhood, you want the cheap transit to be just as good as the luxury transit because having really good luxury transit but cheap transit with crappy service levels can easily be a turn-off to those who move into an area and then might want to spend their money on things other than transit. Also just to clarify, the IND would not be useless for those who live in Riverdale if the Bx20 got to the IND faster by being a super-limited outside of Riverdale. But do I think it is useless under current conditions? Answer is a resounding yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted July 16, 2012 Share #74 Posted July 16, 2012 If Artics on the Bx7 or 10 means fewer buses on the road, my answer is a resounding no. Via, as for your thing about people moving to an area and not using cheap transit, I told you before that not everybody has a choice to live there. Children who grow up in the area did not telepath to their parents that they wanted to live in these neighborhoods when they were egg cells/embryos/fetuses. Additionally, cheap transit takes you to a lot more places of interest than luxury transit and not everybody can afford luxury transit just because they live in affluent areas. Cheap transit is also infinitely more economical and provides more flexibility than luxury transit (especially EXP buses) thanks to the unlimited metrocard. In any case, as I stated before, this is my opinion: -Killing the Bx20 and sending the M100 up there is not a bad idea. I would accept this. -But I think it would be better to kill the Bx20 and add service to the Bx7 and Bx10. -If the Bx20 is to stay, it needs to make only the stops I listed outside of Riverdale and it needs to run as frequently as I said it should in post #25. -If neither of these conditions is satisfied, then I am in total disagreement and continue to be frustrated by the state of local bus service along the Bx10/20 (and sometimes 7) corridor and hope it gets fixed. I should add that I feel that when people make a stink about service cuts they need to do a better job of looking at the big picture. I say this because for the life of me I will never understand why people would insist on keeping a bus line as erratic and infrequent as the Bx20, even just during rush hours, without saying anything about the line's anemic service levels or considering the anemic service levels of the Bx10, when they should have realized that the IND is a rather useless line for Riverdale since the IRT and IND parallel each other from one end of Manhattan to the other and that the Bx20 does an inconsistent and crappy job of relieving the Bx7/10 and it has been that way for years, and when they would have accomplished much more by just saying that the Bx20 just be cut completely and the Bx10 should get a service increase or something. Or by saying that the Bx20 should be a super-limited outside of Riverdale as I stated before. That would make it a much more effective IND connector. Seriously, what the hell good is a connection to another subway line (that parallels the closest one from one end of Manhattan to the other to boot) if it is faster to use that connection to just reach the closest line (IRT) than to reach the second available line (IND)? IT just results in uneven headways when it comes to service to the IRT when the buses could just be put on the Bx10 so there can be even headways when it comes to service to the IRT and the more important line can have its help east of Broadway as well. I realize all of that. I'm just saying that whoever was talking about folks having more access to places like Target and Harlem and all of this from Riverdale... Just so unnecessary because we aren't looking for those connections. We want quick connections to the city via transit hence our usage of the express bus and MetroNorth. Riverdale is a suburban commuter community... Nothing more and nothing less and the idea here is that we either patronize the local shops here in the area or go to Manhattan or Westchester. As for the Bx20, the and serve two different areas even if you want to say that they parallel each other and that's what you're overlooking. They're also separated geographically at certain points in Upper Manhattan. Once they go their ways north of 168th street, they're certainly serving two distinct sections of Manhattan and the is a bit faster once you get to 125th street, going express until 59th street. I also should have said that depending on who moves into the neighborhood, you want the cheap transit to be just as good as the luxury transit because having really good luxury transit but cheap transit with crappy service levels can easily be a turn-off to those who move into an area and then might want to spend their money on things other than transit. Also just to clarify, the IND would not be useless for those who live in Riverdale if the Bx20 got to the IND faster by being a super-limited outside of Riverdale. But do I think it is useless under current conditions? Answer is a resounding yes. Well I'm sorry, but if they want cheap transit then they shouldn't have moved to upstairs Riverdale and that's not to be snobby. Upstairs Riverdale was not meant to be reached quickly with cheap transit and that's just the way it is. If folks want cheap transit in Riverdale, then you move along the Broadway corridor and not only do you get cheap transit, but cheaper rents and mortgages too, since that area of Riverdale is not nearly as desirable as upstairs Riverdale, nor nearly as affluent. Does it take away from upstairs Riverdale? To a degree yes, but for those who want more green, more space and an escape from Manhattan, along with the escape from the high Manhattan prices, Riverdale is a great alternative. Our luxury transportation continues to grow (express buses and MetroNorth usage) so we're not exactly in dire need of folks moving to the area looking for "cheap transit". We're doing just fine with our luxury transportation. The one problem with your beefing up of the Bx7 and Bx10 is that neither serve the train station via the Henry Hudson Parkway, so it would require an additional transfer which is one main thing folks complained about when the Bx20 was proposed to be cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concourse Express Posted July 16, 2012 Share #75 Posted July 16, 2012 The one that is clear is that they got the message that folks are not happy with those service cuts are more importantly being smashed in like sardine cans. They need to restore as much service as they can and not restore anything that could be on the chopping block again. Discouraged arrival processes at work. The 2010 bus cuts were too steep - methinks it's this which explains the sustained bus ridership losses despite record subway ridership over the same time period... That said, I eagerly anticipate Lhota & Co.'s report on which services will be restored... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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