B35 via Church Posted September 20, 2012 Share #26 Posted September 20, 2012 Oh please... Hockey players don't earn nearly as much as guys in other sports do... The big time contracts are still only about $7.5 million or $8 million a year. When you compare that to other sports that is chump change. Very true VG8. A top player in NBA(Lebron) MLB(Pujols) or a top striker in international soccer makes $15-$20 Million a year. Neither one of you is wrong with that, but regardless, I still say no athlete (and/or "celebrities") are even deserving of that much money..... I don't care what sport it is, players are signing these big contracts nowadays & are becoming more counterproductive by being complacent.... I got mine - #*@& the team, #*@& the franchise, #*@& winning, #*@& the fans, [and to a point] #*@& the owners too.... Arrogant ass overpaid athletes is one of the many things that's wrong with sports today, it aint just limited to the NHL..... This may be a long mess... Erhoff just signed with a team from his home country of Germany as did Kolvachuk signing with a Russian team... Alex Ovechkin signed with a team from Moscow This keeps up, you're gonna start seeing more players doing that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted September 20, 2012 Share #27 Posted September 20, 2012 I have too much allegiance to the Canucks to be mad at them. However, Bettmann should go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share #28 Posted September 20, 2012 Neither one of you is wrong with that, but regardless, I still say no athlete (and/or "celebrities") are even deserving of that much money..... I don't care what sport it is, players are signing these big contracts nowadays & are becoming more counterproductive by being complacent.... I got mine - #*@& the team, #*@& the franchise, #*@& winning, #*@& the fans, [and to a point] #*@& the owners too.... Arrogant ass overpaid athletes is one of the many things that's wrong with sports today, it aint just limited to the NHL..... I would tend to disagree with your comment about NHL players. The NHL has always been a humble sport and guys play not because they're making BIG bucks but because they love the game because quite frankly, compared to the other major sports, they are getting chump change. When you look at the amount of players whose careers are ended by concussions (which are increasing at an alarming rate BTW), and other debilitating injuries, it isn't all that glorious for some guys and they are just trying to make what they can to protect their families should they get injured and not be able to provide for them at an early age which has been the case for several stars. Unlike NBA and NFL and some MLB folks, many NHL guys lead simple lives and aren't flashy, buying flashy collections of cars and big fancy houses. That is looked upon with disdain in the NHL because many of these guys come from humble middle class families where their parents sacrificed everything they had to see them be successful, so many of these guys look to take care of their immediate family and then make sure that mom and dad are secure because unlike the NFL, NBA and MLB, hockey is a very expensive sport. Parents have to chip in for ice time, and all of the equipment (skates, sticks, helmets, pads and so on), while these other sports can be played at a relatively cheap cost since basketball, baseball and football fields are more easily accessible. I know this first hand because my mom used to pay for all of my stuff when I played roller hockey... Wheels were easily $60.00 - $75.00, sticks can be $25.00 - $100.00 or more and skates had to be replaced every so often which could run a good $350.00 - $400.00 for something of decent quality and of course there's replacing the bearings as well. Of course you can't play naked, so you need sweaters, sweats, hockey gloves and shin guards and such as well and I had my collection of hockey jerseys too that I would play in which weren't cheap either, so it is quite pricey. The only difference was that since I didn't play ice hockey in high school, we could pretty much play in the park, as long as we could find smooth pavement and some empty garbage cans which we could use as nets, or some of the guys had hockey nets that they would bring over from Gerritsen Beach and we'd have goalies come and play as well with us over in one of the parks in Sheepshead Bay. As for the current players getting big contracts, a lot of that has to do with the NHL teams trying to get players long term on the cheap because of salary cap restrictions, so for example a lot of the recent long term contracts are front loaded so that these guys make most of the money towards the beginning of the contract and their salary decreases as the contract goes on. This benefits the NHL clubs more so because it allows them to take on the big salary cap hit for a few years so that for example if they've got a nucleus of guys that they have locked up long term and key players with contracts ending in the short term, they can then try to go after those players, while still retaining the cornerstones of the team's players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 20, 2012 Share #29 Posted September 20, 2012 I know you wanna go out of your way to defend the sport & everything about it, but spare me the lecture man... Don't know why you're resorting to telling me (again) about how you played hockey in your younger days, and how expensive equipment is, and NHL players coming from middle class families & all that stuff.... The fact of the matter is, the more money athletes make, the swell their heads get..... NHL players are still human & are no exception.... Your point would be all the more more valid if EVERY NHL player had the same, or similar salaries.... You are not gonna tell me that there aren't NHL players that don't get paid significantly more than others...... It isn't so much about them making BIG bucks like NBA/NFL/MLB players, but more, the NHL players that get paid more than your average player gettin swell headed - and their productivity decreases right along with it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share #30 Posted September 20, 2012 I'm bringing it up because many of these guys come from middle class or upper middle families like I did and they are not raised with the mentality of being money mongrels, so the idea that they would now suddenly forget their beginnings and let the money go to their head is not true. What I'm saying is that the sport overall doesn't facilitate or accept that "bling" factor like the other major sports do and so while the major superstars do earn more than their colleagues, they would not go around boasting and showing off like I see other NFL guys and NBA guys in particular doing, showing how many cars they have and how big their house is. I'm sure you've seen those MTV shows back in the day with that crappola. If anything, the fact that a guy like Crosby makes what he does, he would be put under the microscope far harder than other guys because he's expected to live up to his contract and understands that he earns more than his colleagues but he must earn his salary just like everyone else, as he is expected to lead by example, especially since he is the captain of the team. What I'm saying is you can have some Joe Schmoe guy in the NBA making millions just sitting on the bench, but in the NHL the salaries are much smaller and there isn't money to pay guys like that. Even your "enforcers" now and days have to be able to do more than just fight and sit on the bench. They have to have other skills to show that they can contribute more than their fists to earn their salary. Being that the sport is humble and guys are expected to be humble, I personally don't think that guys in the NHL have that sort of attitude overall, though of course you have your exceptions. Yes, they play hockey for a living, but not only would fans call them out but other players would too. That guy for example P.K. Subban is seen by some guys as being very arrogant and Mike Richards called him out as such and got into a fight with him and he isn't the other guy that feels this way because there is a certain code that guys are expected to follow and showing off and being lazy are two things that are frowned upon in the NHL and the Ovechkin's of the world are not exempt from this. Currently he is earning a handsome salary, and many don't think he is producing as he should and I'm willing to bet that he is putting the most pressure on himself to earn every dollar he is making. In sum, the culture that the NHL has is far different from the NBA, NFL or MLB. These guys are trying to do nothing more than put food on the table for their families and not looking for that flashy lifestyle. The stars get paid the big bucks because someone has to market the game, but at the end of the day everyone knows that the sport is not this bling bling type of game where guys earn their paychecks and run to the bank. Many of these guys also donate handsome sums of their salaries to various charities around the cities in which they play in. These are the things that the media usually doesn't show though. If anything the lack of flashiness in the NHL is one reason why it isn't as popular as the other sports. It being expensive to play and not flashy many youngsters particularly in urban areas would not be attracted to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 20, 2012 Share #31 Posted September 20, 2012 Well. I don't understand how you can tell me about these players upbringings, then go on to tell me that you have your exceptions.... That's just me though.... The way I see it, it's not a matter of forgetting where they come from, but more a matter of the individual player's mentalities (or should I say, personalities) - I don't care how much money you come from or not, an athlete earning more money that happens to be an a**hole will become an overpaid a**hole all the same.... You don't have to agree, but again, I don't think ANY athlete, regardless of sport, should be getting paid millions of dollars/year or w/e....The fact that NHL players generally make less money than players of the other 3 sports doesn't change my opinion on that..... My stance is not that players seek to come into the NHL looking for a grandiose payday, a flashy lifestyle, etc..... I'm sayin their attitudes change when they get increased salaries, or owners pay them higher salaries (than your avg. NHL player) right out of the gate..... You keep trying to instill to me that the NHL & the culture around it, is different from the other sports (which I'm not disputing).... Seems like you're taking it that I'm trying to somehow bash the sport..... Not the case..... It's good that you have the hockey knowledge that you do, but you are not dealing with someone that knows nothing about the sport, or hate it because it isn't the other 3 sports..... In regards to this discussion, what I am doing is bashing how athletes change (for lack of a better word) once they end up making more money.... Alright, you bring up Crosby & Ovechkin.... Crosby, I don't question his effort out there on the ice (although I can't stand the arrogant, prissy son of a bitch)... However, when you see a guy like Ovechkin (who was the very player I was thinking of) out there slacking (I'll even go as far as to say non-chalanting) the way he does, it personifies something I despise about today's athletes....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share #32 Posted September 20, 2012 I say that you have your exceptions because every game changes over time. The NHL is changing as newer guys come in and some of these guys aren't necessarily aware of how things are in the game or better yet they don't care and simply act as they please. That's why I mentioned P.K. Subban because he's a young guy and some guys don't think that he shows the respect that he should for the game because he's cocky, though he would probably argue that he's just confident in himself. IMO the NBA wasn't always as flashy as it is now. Back in the old days guys had more respect for the game and played it because they loved the sport and weren't so concerned about how much they were making. Today's NBA now and days seems to be all about how flashy guys can be on the court and off the court and that's why I lost interest in it years ago because it was so obvious and such a turnoff. Same thing with baseball and football to a degree. I think Ovechkin at times does slack but with him I think it's more of the fact that he came into the league as one player and now he's had to retool his game to become a better all around player and so with that said, he is still adjusting so to speak. I don't think his laziness is blatant per se. He's just been used to being able to play one side of the puck and now that his offensive numbers haven't been as great, his weaknesses and even laziness at times have become more obvious as now he is expected to play hard on D to lead by example as the Capitals become a more defense oriented type of team. When you're not scoring, you can't be relaxed on defense and get away with it like some stars do in the NHL like a Malkin for example. He's not the greatest two way player, but he scores a ton so he can get away with not being so aggressive on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 20, 2012 Share #33 Posted September 20, 2012 I was trying to not bring up what goes down in the other sports.... But yeah, there's too much of that BS going on in the NBA (the NBA is all about ego now; how marketable you are..... which is one of the main reasons I call it organized streetball).... Happens a lot in the MLB also.... NFL, not as much as the other two sports, but there's still more occurrences of it compared to the NHL..... In another year or two, I can see myself not watching the NBA anymore - that's how bad it's gotten..... As far as the MLB, if it weren't for the fact that I'm a Yankee fan, I wouldn't watch baseball (for other reasons outside of arrogant, do-nothing/slacking players though)..... Of the sports themselves, I'm a fan of the NFL & the NHL..... With Ovechkin, that "hired gun" mentality Hunter tried to adopt in him didn't help matters - It exacerbated the fact that he wasn't much of a player on defense to begin with..... Being a Ranger fan, it's a similar problem I have with Gaborik - except he slacks on the offensive end as well, and it annoys me to no end..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted September 20, 2012 Share #34 Posted September 20, 2012 I was trying to not bring up what goes down in the other sports.... But yeah, there's too much of that BS going on in the NBA (the NBA is all about ego now; how marketable you are..... which is one of the main reasons I call it organized streetball).... Happens a lot in the MLB also.... NFL, not as much as the other two sports, but there's still more occurrences of it compared to the NHL..... In another year or two, I can see myself not watching the NBA anymore - that's how bad it's gotten..... As far as the MLB, if it weren't for the fact that I'm a Yankee fan, I wouldn't watch baseball (for other reasons outside of arrogant, do-nothing/slacking players though)..... Of the sports themselves, I'm a fan of the NFL & the NHL..... With Ovechkin, that "hired gun" mentality Hunter tried to adopt in him didn't help matters - It exacerbated the fact that he wasn't much of a player on defense to begin with..... Being a Ranger fan, it's a similar problem I have with Gaborik - except he slacks on the offensive end as well, and it annoys me to no end..... LOL... You've got a point... You see with hockey though, there are some guys that are still allowed to be one way players and Gaborik would be one of them. The Rangers always seem to get guys like that because I guess they feel like they're sound enough defensively with Lundqvist in net that they can have a few guys like that. Nash will be like that as well, while Richards is a good two way player. The problem with Ovechkin is that I think not only did Hunter decide that they needed to be more defensive minded, but the organization as a whole made that decision since they keep getting bounced from the playoffs trying to win with offense, so now they're trying to become more defensive minded and of course with Ovechkin being the captain he now is expected to lead by example. He's gotten better with it, but some guys are just not made to be two way players and he's one of them, so that's why I said that he isn't necessarily lazy on purpose. The one thing that some teams get worried about is that if you force a guy like Gaborik to do more defensively that he won't be as effective offensively, so they get less slack if you will. They'd rather keep a guy like Gaborik fresh so that he can create more in the offensive end. Same thing will probably apply with Nash. As long as they're decent in their own end the idea is that their lack of defensive skill shouldn't become a liability. However, if it becomes an issue to where they can't win because guys like Nash and Gaborik can't defend then they will ask them to do more in the defensive end if that's what it takes for them to win the cup, which I think they have a good chance at assuming that Nash, Gaborik and Richards can stay healthy. They have a decent amount of supporters that can do some secondary scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share #35 Posted September 28, 2012 Back to topic. NHL has cancelled rest of pre season and is expected to cancel the full regular season opening week as well. Bettman according to rumors has already stated a possible Mid Dec. deadline for new contract with the players or else kiss the 2012-2013 NHL season bye bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 16, 2012 Share #36 Posted October 16, 2012 The NHL has offered the PA a 50-50 split in HRI. Will they accept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share #37 Posted October 16, 2012 The NHL has offered the PA a 50-50 split in HRI. Will they accept? Knowing the A@@H@@E Donald Fehr maybe not. IMO the NHL players union should accept. If not IMO there a good chance you can kiss the full 2012-'13 season "bye-bye." FYI. Here article. They still plan to play full 82 games season on Nov. 1? What finish the season by July 15? Or most likely follow the NBA and shove down something like 5 games in a week. http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1184764 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Rock Depot Posted October 17, 2012 Share #38 Posted October 17, 2012 This lockout is killing me! Right when the Blueshirts start doing something right? I hope this won't be a repeat of 04-05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted October 17, 2012 Share #39 Posted October 17, 2012 There will be a deal by the end of the week, I think. The NHL suddenly (!) realized that they need to actually show something tangible lest they lose all their fan growth over the last decade. Not to mention billions of dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share #40 Posted October 17, 2012 There will be a deal by the end of the week, I think. The NHL suddenly (!) realized that they need to actually show something tangible lest they lose all their fan growth over the last decade. Not to mention billions of dollars. That would great if true.I feel bad for the common folks i.e hot dog/beer vendors etc especially in arenas without a NBA team that are totally out of work. Reading the early statement from Fehr and the other NHL Players union reps, they did not totally reject it and say "NO." Thus there a chance for almost full season and to play for say 70-75 regular season games and full playoffs. Playing the full 82 game season starting on Nov 2 is pushing it IMO and increase chances for injuries IMO as we saw after last year's NBA lockout. I dont think end of this week(I could be wrong)but I feel a deal could be in place within 2 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted October 17, 2012 Share #41 Posted October 17, 2012 There's a big problem Shortline, is the owners are losing money by the millions in this economy. They need their arenas to be filled or some teams will go bankrupt. Up until this point its all been close-to-the-chest politics. For the first time the NHL bothered to show that they need to get folks back to playing. No more games will be canceled if they're serious about getting this done. Then again, who knows? Maybe this is just politics too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share #42 Posted October 17, 2012 There's a big problem Shortline, is the owners are losing money by the millions in this economy. They need their arenas to be filled or some teams will go bankrupt. Up until this point its all been close-to-the-chest politics. For the first time the NHL bothered to show that they need to get folks back to playing. No more games will be canceled if they're serious about getting this done. Then again, who knows? Maybe this is just politics too.... For teams like the Rangers, AVS, Bruins, Leafs, Blackhawks, Flyers and Kings who are co-owned with their NBA teams they wont lose as much $$$. It's the smaller market teams without a NBA partner i.e Sabres, Jets, Oilers, Flames etc. they lose millions each week by not playing. IMO this lockout is more about trying to crack the NHL Players Union than in 2004-'05 when many teams was losing money. Not to mention 8 years ago ESPN had just dumped them for US TV Rights. League now in late 2012 is much better shape with recently signed $2 Billion plus 8 year contract from Comcast/NBC and in Canada, CBC and TSN. In end I think(I am not a NHL expert like you Tokemon or VG8)there be a compromise of say 52-53% total gross for players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted October 17, 2012 Share #43 Posted October 17, 2012 Something like that... The fact still remains that the NHLPA has the NHL by the balls and in a way I'm glad that the NHLPA is holding their ground. These guys are not at all greedy and earn every penny that they get. If it was the NBA or MLB where guys are really overpaid, I could understand, but these guys are just looking to suppor their families and give away an incredible amount of money as well as time back to charities and communities. With the salary caps in place, the owners are still making out well with the current set up, so for them to be asking for even more of a share of the revenues shows how greedy they are. Many of the concessions made by the NHLPA last time allowed the owners to clamp down on salaries so that's why I take exception to them asking for more share of the revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share #44 Posted October 17, 2012 Something like that... The fact still remains that the NHLPA has the NHL by the balls and in a way I'm glad that the NHLPA is holding their ground. These guys are not at all greedy and earn every penny that they get. If it was the NBA or MLB where guys are really overpaid, I could understand, but these guys are just looking to suppor their families and give away an incredible amount of money as well as time back to charities and communities. With the salary caps in place, the owners are still making out well with the current set up, so for them to be asking for even more of a share of the revenues shows how greedy they are. Many of the concessions made by the NHLPA last time allowed the owners to clamp down on salaries so that's why I take exception to them asking for more share of the revenues. With this one if i was a judge, the NHL players are on the correct side this time around unlike '04-'05. Even though i cant stand Fehr, at least at start of lockout, the NHLPA agreed to a small pay cut in gross. Again the NHL Owners trying to bust the chops of the NHLPA. Plus as i said earlier, the league just signed a record $2 Billion plus contract extension with NBC/Comcast, CBC Rogerssportsnet (RSN) and TSN combined. It's not like end of 2004 when the league had no national tv contract deal in US when ESPN just dumped them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #45 Posted October 19, 2012 You can pretty much now kiss a full unintrupted 82-game NHL regular season bye-bye. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2012/10/18/nhl-talks-break-off/1642211/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokkemon Posted October 19, 2012 Share #46 Posted October 19, 2012 *facepalm* This. Is. Not. Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #47 Posted October 19, 2012 *facepalm* This. Is. Not. Cool. Hey when you mix Bettman and fehr(who IMO was a main reason the '94 World series was cancelled)it going to be "posion." And to my friend Tokkemon a better facepalm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHTd3gJlGiQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted October 19, 2012 Share #48 Posted October 19, 2012 *facepalm* This. Is. Not. Cool. F*ck... And there went a promising year for the Rangers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #49 Posted October 19, 2012 F*ck... And there went a promising year for the Rangers... Concourse the '12-'13 season has not been cancelled yet. Just the first couple of weeks of the regular season are now pretty much gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted October 19, 2012 Share #50 Posted October 19, 2012 I would've accepted the 50/50 split Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.