Public Hearing For New Brooklyn Navy Yard & Kent Avenue routes

[B35 via Church]

Nah, he said it would terminate by 130 Livingston, so he'd have an LIC-Downtown Brooklyn route (as a supplement to the B62), and then the B67 remaining as is.

 

(He should've used a different term than B67 extension, but he's just talking about combining the "extension" part with the B32, not the full B67 route)

I should hope so....

 

If that's the case though, then he shouldn't have worded that entire opening statement the way he did....

("as one route".... Speaking of misleading)

 

All he had to say was that he'd extend the 32 downtown via the navy yard & left the 67 alone.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I see more Q59 buses use the Willamsburg Kent Avenue Signs (in other words, the Willy-B plaza signs are no longer on those buses. 4517 and other 4400 series buses have that. Is this because of the B32.

[dkupf]

It seems to me that one of the requirements of the new routes/extensions is that it neither affect nor change the paths of currently-established routes.

 

That being said, I think that extending the B67, is a better idea than changing the routing of the B69.  My only problem is that it's not going to WBP.  I think that sending the B67 1/2-mile to WBP would, at least, pay for itself. 

 

Ditto for the B32 to Queensboro Plaza.

[BrooklynBus]

It seems to me that one of the requirements of the new routes/extensions is that it neither affect nor change the paths of currently-established routes.

 

That being said, I think that extending the B67, is a better idea than changing the routing of the B69.  My only problem is that it's not going to WBP.  I think that sending the B67 1/2-mile to WBP would, at least, pay for itself. 

 

Ditto for the B32 to Queensboro Plaza.

Why wouldn't you want to affect the paths of currently established routes. I can see it in cases where there is high patronage but why not try to improve a route that is suffering? The don't want to reroute the B69 because they are afraid it may cause them to have to increase B67 or B57 service. Even some established routes could benefit from a route change some times.

[B35 via Church]

Why wouldn't you want to affect the paths of currently established routes. I can see it in cases where there is high patronage but why not try to improve a route that is suffering?

 

They don't want to reroute the B69 because they are afraid it may cause them to have to increase B67 or B57 service. Even some established routes could benefit from a route change some times.

...especially currently established routings where much of no one is using these services.

Instead of looking to improve said established routes/routings, they look to cut first... That's part of the problem.

 

Anyway, yeah, I also think a domino effect of sorts (which is basically what you're saying, involving your point regarding the B57 & B67) is one reason.... Thing about it is, they wouldn't have to resort to doing so....

 

Being facetious (well, somewhat), another reason why they probably won't delve into changing the B69 in that manner because it makes too much of a little something called SENSE for (more of) the riding public that will benefit from it.....

[BrooklynBus]

...especially currently established routings where much of no one is using these services.

Instead of looking to improve said established routes/routings, they look to cut first... That's part of the problem.

 

Anyway, yeah, I also think a domino effect of sorts (which is basically what you're saying, involving your point regarding the B57 & B67) is one reason.... Thing about it is, they wouldn't have to resort to doing so....

 

Being facetious (well, somewhat), another reason why they probably won't delve into changing the B69 in that manner because it makes too much of a little something called SENSE for (more of) the riding public that will benefit from it.....

 

It makes sense to us, because we know the system, not to them because as I said in the article, they don't use it.  When I started working in Operations Planning, I had all these great ideas I wanted to study.  I thought I would be saving them so much money because we could start gathering the numbers to test these ideas right away instead of first waiting two years to formulate and test ideas. I even developed the changes in stages to minimize the number of times a single route would have to be changed. You think they appreciated that?  Absolutely not. My boss had no conception of how to formulate bus route changes.  He insisted that I develop a different set of changes for each Community Board.  I tried to explain to him that routes don't end at Community Board Lines, and what he was suggesting was not feasible causing a single route to be changed as many as six different times. He couldn't understand what I was saying.

 

 That's when I realized I was working for a bunch of idiots.  Any statement I would make which made perfect sense to me was greeted with, "How do you know that? Prove it?"  While it was perfectly all right for my boss to insist I propose a direct bus route from his house to the office so he could get a seat all the time and wouldn't have to stand on the train. He didn't ask for proof for that. I refused, and he hated me for it.   

 

Once I made a statement that when its raining, people are more likely to take a bus for short distances rather walk.  My supervisor gave me a quizzical look, asking where was my proof and how do I know? So you talk about common sense?  They have none. It's like asking someone for proof that undernourished children in third world countries are more susceptible to illness and disease than rich suburban kids who can afford to eat well.

 

They do whatever they want.  Operations Planning was once headed by an Orthodox Jew, so he moved the M train from the Brighton Line to the West End Line so people in Borough Park could have a direct subway to the Lower East Side and Williamsburg.  Was there any study? No. He just ordered that it be done because it was what he wanted. 

[checkmatechamp13]

While it was perfectly all right for my boss to insist I propose a direct bus route from his house to the office so he could get a seat all the time and wouldn't have to stand on the train. He didn't ask for proof for that. I refused, and he hated me for it.   

 

I used to joke around with my friends that if I ever ended up working for the MTA, I'd end up doing something like that. I didn't think it was actually done, though. Damn.

 

 

It makes sense to us, because we know the system, not to them because as I said in the article, they don't use it.

 

The sad thing is that there are some concepts that should be common sense to them, like the fact that extending a bus route can lead to increased unreliability, and yet here they're extending the B67 through a major chokepoint (in this case, Downtown Brooklyn). Common sense would tell them to figure out some other way (and in this thread, there were a few good alternatives that were mentioned, so they had plenty of options)

[qjtransitmaster]

It makes sense to us, because we know the system, not to them because as I said in the article, they don't use it.  When I started working in Operations Planning, I had all these great ideas I wanted to study.  I thought I would be saving them so much money because we could start gathering the numbers to test these ideas right away instead of first waiting two years to formulate and test ideas. I even developed the changes in stages to minimize the number of times a single route would have to be changed. You think they appreciated that?  Absolutely not. My boss had no conception of how to formulate bus route changes.  He insisted that I develop a different set of changes for each Community Board.  I tried to explain to him that routes don't end at Community Board Lines, and what he was suggesting was not feasible causing a single route to be changed as many as six different times. He couldn't understand what I was saying.

 

 That's when I realized I was working for a bunch of idiots.  Any statement I would make which made perfect sense to me was greeted with, "How do you know that? Prove it?"  While it was perfectly all right for my boss to insist I propose a direct bus route from his house to the office so he could get a seat all the time and wouldn't have to stand on the train. He didn't ask for proof for that. I refused, and he hated me for it.   

 

Once I made a statement that when its raining, people are more likely to take a bus for short distances rather walk.  My supervisor gave me a quizzical look, asking where was my proof and how do I know? So you talk about common sense?  They have none. It's like asking someone for proof that undernourished children in third world countries are more susceptible to illness and disease than rich suburban kids who can afford to eat well.

 

They do whatever they want.  Operations Planning was once headed by an Orthodox Jew, so he moved the M train from the Brighton Line to the West End Line so people in Borough Park could have a direct subway to the Lower East Side and Williamsburg.  Was there any study? No. He just ordered that it be done because it was what he wanted. 

But isn't that what people wanted? The demographics supported it though. It appears that it really is hopeless.

[BrooklynBus]

But isn't that what people wanted? The demographics supported it though. It appears that it really is hopeless.

The point wasn't if it was a good idea or not, but that he did it just because he could. But if an idea were suggested to the MTA, they need five years to study it. I wonder how many actually used the M from Borough Park to Williamsburg when they also have a direct express bus at almost a local fare to do the same thing and the buses are always full.

[Eric B]

It was moved because of the skip-stop pattern on the Brighton when they were working on two tracks. Since that was supposed to be a temporary change for construction, it needed no study.

Perhaps some sort of political influence is what kept it over there, but I wouldn't know. It did sort of fill in for the Nassau special, which was axed during that time.

[Q43LTD]

I just don't understand why the B32 couldn't run from Queens Plaza to York St via Navy Yard?

[Guest MTA Bus]

Queens Plaza needs no more bus routes stoping there.

[B35 via Church]

I just don't understand why the B32 couldn't run from Queens Plaza to York St via Navy Yard?

What's funny about this is, York st as a terminal (after going through through the navy yard) is just as bad as the B67 extension ending short of WBP..... It's the same problem, except on the opposite ends of the navy yard....

 

Gun to my head decision (b/c I'm not for this 32 anyway), I agree that it should be the new route going through the navy yard over the "established" B67.... Of course, they're not gonna allocate as much money into trying to maximize the catchment area (usage) of the route - but instead keeping this piece of a route as is/as set to be....

 

As far as Queens Plaza, well this B32 is suppose to cater to patrons that live along/around the waterfront or whatever.... With the B62 in the vicinity, you don't really have to have B32's & B62's ending at Queens Plz.... Getting them to the 6th av line & the 8th av line I guess is enough for those folks....

[BrooklynBus]

It was moved because of the skip-stop pattern on the Brighton when they were working on two tracks. Since that was supposed to be a temporary change for construction, it needed no study.

Perhaps some sort of political influence is what kept it over there, but I wouldn't know. It did sort of fill in for the Nassau special, which was axed during that time.

 

But it wasn't a temporary change, so it needed a study to determine if it should be kept there.  Funny, it was changed when the guy left and there was no one at the MTA to fight for keeping it there.

[dkupf]

Why wouldn't you want to affect the paths of currently established routes. I can see it in cases where there is high patronage but why not try to improve a route that is suffering? The don't want to reroute the B69 because they are afraid it may cause them to have to increase B67 or B57 service. Even some established routes could benefit from a route change some times.

I agree.

 

But in this case, I prefer the B67 to serve the Brooklyn Navy Yard, because the B69 could then be extended from its current northern terminus at Sands St via Old Fulton St and Furman St to Brooklyn Bridge Park (transfer to the B63). Doing this would make the area more accessible by mass transit.

[BrooklynBus]

Anyone know if this hearing is still on. The link was removed from the MTA website a few weeks ago and has not been put back.

[dkupf]

Yes. But you must go to www.mta.info at the bottom of the home page.

[BrooklynBus]

But why is this link broken for the past two weeks?

 

 

http://www.mta.info/mta/news/hearings/

[LTA1992]

To all the people who's saying this route won't work, I'll give you a line from the famous Son Goku:

 

"You'll never know until you try".

[Transitfan007]

Oops just started a new thread on this same topic didn't notice this was one was alive  MOD can you please delete my thread?  Sorry!

http://brooklyn.ny1.com/content/top_stories/181246/new-bus-lines-to-expand-service-in-brooklyn?ap=1&MP4

[BrooklynBus]

Anyone go to the hearing? I was surprised that several residents from DUMBO spoke out against the B67 extension and recommended alternate streets to use with less congestion. They claimed the MTA did not work with them through the planning process. It will be interesting to see if the MTA listens to their suggestions now or just does what it wants anyway.

[Turbo19]

Anyone go to the hearing? I was surprised that several residents from DUMBO spoke out against the B67 extension and recommended alternate streets to use with less congestion. They claimed the MTA did not work with them through the planning process. It will be interesting to see if the MTA listens to their suggestions now or just does what it wants anyway.

Likely they'd do the latter (follow with the original plans). Was there any specific segment residents were opposed to? The routing through Navy Yard itselff seemed like trouble from the get go.

[BrooklynBus]

They said something about the congested streets the bus woud be using and provided Prospect Street as an alternate.