Montague St Tunnel Closure - Exp. Bus Service Restorations & Increases Requested

[Brooklyn]

Say it with me again... You don't speak for all people... Just because you think that's the best way doesn't make it so and those who want to opt for the express bus will do so.  The service should be there to ensure that there isn't overcrowding and can be adjusted as needed.

Neither do you.

 

To piggyback on Culver's point, the still offers transfers to the 2,3,4,5,A,C,D,F,G,N,Q.

 

That Brooklyn leg has to have consistent and reliable service to minimize headaches.

 

If the MTA could just get that straight, it shouldn't take passengers that much longer to get into lower Manhattan.

 

They can make up for some of the lost time by increasing the headways on the during rush--if the train could run every 4-5 minutes instead of every 7-8, that would help big time. This shouldn't be too hard--it's only 17 or 18 stops from Court to 95th st.

 

With proper planning, the closure shouldn't be too horrible.

[Gorgor]

Say it with me again... You don't speak for all people... Just because you think that's the best way doesn't make it so and those who want to opt for the express bus will do so.  The service should be there to ensure that there isn't overcrowding and can be adjusted as needed.

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but out of the 15 stops the X28 makes in Brooklyn, only 3 are closer to the train than the train.  According to you, since the is half a mile away from the X28 it makes it an alternative.  The train runs about half a mile away parallel to the X28 for it's almost its entire run on Cropsey Av, therefore the is a perfectly good alternative to the X28.

 

The X28 makes ONE stop in Bay Ridge, and it's right on the border.  The X28 would primarily serve those in other neighborhoods that currently take the train to Manhattan.  If those people need lower Manhattan then they currently take the to the , but now they'll just have to take the to the .

 

If this was an argument for the X27 then there would be at least some merit to it, and I may even agree with that, but the X27 already has weekend service so no need to do anything about that. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Neither do you.

 

To piggyback on Culver's point, the still offers transfers to the 2,3,4,5,A,C,D,F,G,N,Q.

 

That Brooklyn leg has to have consistent and reliable service to minimize headaches.

 

If the MTA could just get that straight, it shouldn't take passengers that much longer to get into lower Manhattan.

 

They can make up for some of the lost time by increasing the headways on the during rush--if the train could run every 4-5 minutes instead of every 7-8, that would help big time. This shouldn't be too hard--it's only 17 or 18 stops from Court to 95th st.

 

With proper planning, the closure shouldn't be too horrible.

You got that right, but I do know what the communities have stated and what they want and they want the X28 back on weekends as do I.  I'm petitioning for it back and have been for some time so I'm well aware of what the communities of Southwest Brooklyn want and why esp. since I used to use the X28 on weekends and understand its importance.

 

I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but out of the 15 stops the X28 makes in Brooklyn, only 3 are closer to the train than the train.  According to you, since the is half a mile away from the X28 it makes it an alternative.  The train runs about half a mile away parallel to the X28 for it's almost its entire run on Cropsey Av, therefore the is a perfectly good alternative to the X28.

 

The X28 makes ONE stop in Bay Ridge, and it's right on the border.  The X28 would primarily serve those in other neighborhoods that currently take the train to Manhattan.  If those people need lower Manhattan then they currently take the to the , but now they'll just have to take the to the .

 

If this was an argument for the X27 then there would be at least some merit to it, and I may even agree with that, but the X27 already has weekend service so no need to do anything about that. 

The argument is very simple...  The will be knocked out for some time.  The is usually knocked out on weekends, which means limited options in Southwest Brooklyn.  Restoring the X28 gives those people a quick, reliable and convenient option because of the issues with the and .  As a matter of fact I witnessed this problem first hand last month. 

 

I took the X17 to Dyker Heights.  I wanted to go to Coney Island, but didn't know that the was knocked out and was terminating at Bay Parkway until it was too late. Even with that, the real issue was there were no shuttle buses running so the B82's were packed and some weren't going all the way to Stillwell Av, making matters worse.  The plans POORLY and you of all people should know this. Had the X28 been there, I wouldn't have had to have made three transfers (X17 to the B1 to the to the B82 to get to my destination which took close to 2 hours). 

[Gorgor]

The argument is very simple...  The will be knocked out for some time.  The is usually knocked out on weekends, which means limited options in Southwest Brooklyn.  Restoring the X28 gives those people a quick, reliable and convenient option because of the issues with the and .  As a matter of fact I witnessed this problem first hand last month. 

 

I took the X17 to Dyker Heights.  I wanted to go to Coney Island, but didn't know that the was knocked out and was terminating at Bay Parkway until it was too late. Even with that, the real issue was there were no shuttle buses running so the B82's were packed and some weren't going all the way to Stillwell Av, making matters worse.  The plans POORLY and you of all people should know this. Had the X28 been there, I wouldn't have had to have made three transfers (X17 to the B1 to the to the B82 to get to my destination which took close to 2 hours). 

 

You are aware that there are much faster options to get to Coney Island than taking the express bus to a local bus to the subway...

 

That's entirely your fault for having to take an express bus wherever you go, even if it means making many transfers.

 

According to the MTA schedules the takes 40 minutes Manhattan to Coney Island, takes 44 minutes, takes 45 minutes.  Don't you try and use your stupidity as an argument for the X28.

[Culver]

Say it with me again... You don't speak for all people... Just because you think that's the best way doesn't make it so and those who want to opt for the express bus will do so.  The service should be there to ensure that there isn't overcrowding and can be adjusted as needed.

OK, we get it. You really, really, really, really like express buses. But most people will take the transfer (THE HORROR) rather than pay $6 for a damn bus. Everybody keeps repeating this and it isn't getting through. If demand shows, they'll add some express bus service.

[Culver]

You are aware that there are much faster options to get to Coney Island than taking the express bus to a local bus to the subway...

 

That's entirely your fault for having to take an express bus wherever you go, even if it means making many transfers.

 

According to the MTA schedules the takes 40 minutes Manhattan to Coney Island, takes 44 minutes, takes 45 minutes.  Don't you try and use your stupidity as an argument for the X28.

Subways are scary! They have like poor people and minorities on them and stuff! And CHUDs! THE HORROR

[Turbo19]

Subways are scary! They have like poor people and minorities on them and stuff! And CHUDs! THE HORROR

Yeah, and the express buses have many amenities such as WiFi, personal attendants and a full service bar. For $6 you can get all your heart desires, whether it be as luxurious as caviar and Sauvignon Blanc, or as simple as a Sam Adams and chicken wings.

 

Please, express routes are part of public transit as well. It just so happens that passengers are willing to pay a slight up charge for faster service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You are aware that there are much faster options to get to Coney Island than taking the express bus to a local bus to the subway...

 

That's entirely your fault for having to take an express bus wherever you go, even if it means making many transfers.

 

According to the MTA schedules the takes 40 minutes Manhattan to Coney Island, takes 44 minutes, takes 45 minutes.  Don't you try and use your stupidity as an argument for the X28.

Did it ever dawn on you that I wasn't near the subway, hence why I took the X17? The Coney Island trip wasn't planned and since I saw an X17 coming I took it to get moving. The point I was making was that shuttle buses should've been running.  

 

It's only stupid when other people want their express bus service back but meanwhile your "ritzy" Upper East Side doesn't have the balls to fight for the X90.  Meanwhile when other neighborhoods fight, they've got so many options, but your neighborhood has it so tough with a similar set up.  A bit hypocritical to say the least.

 

Subways are scary! They have like poor people and minorities on them and stuff! And CHUDs! THE HORROR

If that were the case I wouldn't have been on the . Listen buddy, I use the subway daily so cut the BS.  I'm entitled to use whatever transportation best suits my needs, period.  If the subway works for you then great, but don't sit here and try to dictate to me what works for me.

[Gorgor]

Did it ever dawn on you that I wasn't near the subway, hence why I took the X17? The Coney Island trip wasn't planned and since I saw an X17 coming I took it to get moving. The point I was making was that shuttle buses should've been running.  

 

It's only stupid when other people want their express bus service back but meanwhile your "ritzy" Upper East Side doesn't have the balls to fight for the X90.  Meanwhile when other neighborhoods fight, they've got so many options, but your neighborhood has it so tough with a similar set up.  A bit hypocritical to say the least.

 

If that were the case I wouldn't have been on the . Listen buddy, I use the subway daily so cut the BS.  I'm entitled to use whatever transportation best suits my needs, period.  If the subway works for you then great, but don't sit here and try to dictate to me what works for me.

 

You weren't near the subway but were near the X17?  What stop did you get on at?  There's at least one subway stop, usually more, by each of the X17 stops.  Please answer this.

 

Really, when you have to go bring up arguments from past years unrelated to the current topic at hand then you've run out of cards to play.

 

Also, you use the subway daily?  Since when?  All you ever say you do is take the BxM1/2/18 to Manhattan, walk or ride around on the Madison Avenue bus, go to Whole Foods, and then take the express bus back.  I don't remember the last time (if any) you've ever mentioned a trip on the subway.

[Culver]

Did it ever dawn on you that I wasn't near the subway, hence why I took the X17? The Coney Island trip wasn't planned and since I saw an X17 coming I took it to get moving. The point I was making was that shuttle buses should've been running.  

 

It's only stupid when other people want their express bus service back but meanwhile your "ritzy" Upper East Side doesn't have the balls to fight for the X90.  Meanwhile when other neighborhoods fight, they've got so many options, but your neighborhood has it so tough with a similar set up.  A bit hypocritical to say the least.

 

If that were the case I wouldn't have been on the . Listen buddy, I use the subway daily so cut the BS.  I'm entitled to use whatever transportation best suits my needs, period.  If the subway works for you then great, but don't sit here and try to dictate to me what works for me.

Not dictating, but your fear of the subways is pretty funny to me. Sorry, but that's how you come off every time you call it loud, dirty, obnoxious, etc. It is those things, but if you haven't gotten used to it by now, nothing anyone can do about that.

 

Anywhoo, like I said, if the riding public in Dyker and B'hurst can provide the ridership, I actually do think an X28 restoration for weekend service would work. I just don't think it has anything to do with Montague. Regarding Montague, they might increase X27 service and that should do it. Not me (not in my commute), but realistically most people will just transfer in BK to the 2/3/4/5/A/B/C/D/F/N/Q downtown. It's really not that big a deal and seniors in Bay Ridge should get a slight increase in X27 service to help out if the transfer is legitimately a hard walk. In fact, if politicians just said "hey, increase X27 service a little bit for seniors and we're cool" probably would've been a lot calmer of a debate. Of course they had to go all "THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD" on it.

[CenSin]

Say it with me again... You don't speak for all people... Just because you think that's the best way doesn't make it so and those who want to opt for the express bus will do so.

Everyone wants something. Everyone thinks they know what they need. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. If the demands made sense, they would get it.

 

Side note: I demand full express service from Coney Island to Grand Street, Canal Street, and 34 Street–Herald Square due to overcrowding from the tourists going to Coney Island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Everyone wants something. Everyone thinks they know what they need. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. If the demands made sense, they would get it.

 

Side note: I demand full express service from Coney Island to Grand Street, Canal Street, and 34 Street–Herald Square due to overcrowding from the tourists going to Coney Island.

Excuse me, this isn't a want but a NEED. Let's not confuse the two.

 

You weren't near the subway but were near the X17?  What stop did you get on at?  There's at least one subway stop, usually more, by each of the X17 stops.  Please answer this.

 

Really, when you have to go bring up arguments from past years unrelated to the current topic at hand then you've run out of cards to play.

 

Also, you use the subway daily?  Since when?  All you ever say you do is take the BxM1/2/18 to Manhattan, walk or ride around on the Madison Avenue bus, go to Whole Foods, and then take the express bus back.  I don't remember the last time (if any) you've ever mentioned a trip on the subway.

The X17 was on 5th and 40th.  Why would I walk to the subway when the bus is right there? In that situation it was walking 10 minutes to the subway then waiting for a train vs having the express bus right there. I was in a hurry to get somewhere and needed to get going so I saw the X17 and hopped on.  The real issue was that there were no shuttle buses at Bay Parkway, which was RIDICULOUS.  Had they had those the commute wouldn't have been a problem even with the transfers.  The issue was getting a bus the rest of the way due to the overcrowding once we got off of the train.

 

As for your other point, it certainly is related because I don't think you'd be making such a big deal if your X90 was still around.  Ever since then you've suddenly become so concerned about the cost to run express buses. Spare me with the BS concern.  You weren't doing all of these "cost analysis" and all of this other nonsense before so don't even try it.

 

To anwser your last comment, if I'm caught in traffic and am in a rush I take the subway even though I may prefer to stay on the express bus.  I have an unlimited card so of course I try to use the express bus as much as possible, but nevertheless I travel A LOT and some of that travel includes the local bus and subway or walking.  I've used the subway in other countries and it's amazing how sub par our subways are in terms of cleanliness and other things.  If I didn't use the subways regularly I wouldn't know about the stations.  96th street on the line is one station that I use that is outright disgusting and surprising considering that it's in your beloved Upper East Side.  They do keep up 86th and 77th though.  68th street could use a rehab and 59th is another disgusting looking station even though it was re-done somewhat recently.

 

Not dictating, but your fear of the subways is pretty funny to me. Sorry, but that's how you come off every time you call it loud, dirty, obnoxious, etc. It is those things, but if you haven't gotten used to it by now, nothing anyone can do about that.

 

Anywhoo, like I said, if the riding public in Dyker and B'hurst can provide the ridership, I actually do think an X28 restoration for weekend service would work. I just don't think it has anything to do with Montague. Regarding Montague, they might increase X27 service and that should do it. Not me (not in my commute), but realistically most people will just transfer in BK to the 2/3/4/5/A/B/C/D/F/N/Q downtown. It's really not that big a deal and seniors in Bay Ridge should get a slight increase in X27 service to help out if the transfer is legitimately a hard walk. In fact, if politicians just said "hey, increase X27 service a little bit for seniors and we're cool" probably would've been a lot calmer of a debate. Of course they had to go all "THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD" on it.

It isn't a fear.  It's my frustration with the state of the subway system. Don't confuse the two. Our subways should be in much better shape.

[Gorgor]

Excuse me, this isn't a want but a NEED. Let's not confuse the two.

 

The X17 was on 5th and 40th.  Why would I walk to the subway when the bus is right there? In that situation it was walking 10 minutes to the subway then waiting for a train vs having the express bus right there. I was in a hurry to get somewhere and needed to get going so I saw the X17 and hopped on.  The real issue was that there were no shuttle buses at Bay Parkway, which was RIDICULOUS.  Had they had those the commute wouldn't have been a problem even with the transfers.  The issue was getting a bus the rest of the way due to the overcrowding once we got off of the train.

 

As for your other point, it certainly is related because I don't think you'd be making such a big deal if your X90 was still around.  Ever since then you've suddenly become so concerned about the cost to run express buses. Spare me with the BS concern.  You weren't doing all of these "cost analysis" and all of this other nonsense before so don't even try it.

 

To anwser your last comment, if I'm caught in traffic and am in a rush I take the subway even though I may prefer to stay on the express bus.  I have an unlimited card so of course I try to use the express bus as much as possible, but nevertheless I travel A LOT and some of that travel includes the local bus and subway or walking.  I've used the subway in other countries and it's amazing how sub par our subways are in terms of cleanliness and other things.  If I didn't use the subways regularly I wouldn't know about the stations.  96th street on the line is one station that I use that is outright disgusting and surprising considering that it's in your beloved Upper East Side.  They do keep up 86th and 77th though.  68th street could use a rehab and 59th is another disgusting looking station even though it was re-done somewhat recently.

 

It isn't a fear.  It's my frustration with the state of the subway system. Don't confuse the two. Our subways should be in much better shape.

 

"Why would I walk to the subway when the bus is right there?"

 

Maybe you should've asked yourself the question "why should I make two transfers when I could just take one train directly there?"

 

It would be a 4 minute walk max for you to get from 5th/40th to 6th/42nd, and you would not need to transfer at all!  Just hop on the train.  Instead you chose to take the express bus to the local bus and then to the subway.  Forget the fact that the wasn't running all the way down, you chose an extremely inconvenient route that requires multiple transfers rather than walking a couple blocks to get a one seat ride down to Coney Island.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

"Why would I walk to the subway when the bus is right there?"

 

Maybe you should've asked yourself the question "why should I make two transfers when I could just take one train directly there?"

 

It would be a 4 minute walk max for you to get from 5th/40th to 6th/42nd, and you would not need to transfer at all!  Just hop on the train.  Instead you chose to take the express bus to the local bus and then to the subway.  Forget the fact that the wasn't running all the way down, you chose an extremely inconvenient route that requires multiple transfers rather than walking a couple blocks to get a one seat ride down to Coney Island.

Are you kidding me?? You obviously don't use the on weekends... That train runs like garbage.  I've waited almost 20 minutes for an train on weekends on multiple occasions, not to mention all of the stops it makes. I can see you recommending the but certainly not the .

[Fresh Pond]

Are you kidding me?? You obviously don't use the on weekends... That train runs like garbage. I've waited almost 20 minutes for an train on weekends on multiple occasions, not to mention all of the stops it makes. I can see you recommending the but certainly not the .

Its not that bad now...

[Gorgor]

Are you kidding me?? You obviously don't use the on weekends... That train runs like garbage.  I've waited almost 20 minutes for an train on weekends on multiple occasions, not to mention all of the stops it makes. I can see you recommending the but certainly not the .

 

Still beats having to transfer to a bus and then another subway, which runs equally as garbage-like as the .

 

There's nothing wrong with you taking the express bus as much as possible even if it's out of your way, just know that using that as an argument for more express bus service when there are faster alternatives is a horrible argument.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Still beats having to transfer to a bus and then another subway, which runs equally as garbage-like as the .

 

There's nothing wrong with you taking the express bus as much as possible even if it's out of your way, just know that using that as an argument for more express bus service when there are faster alternatives is a horrible argument.

lol... That's exactly why the X28 should be restored on weekends. With 760 riders, hourly service at certain points of the day would not break the bank. It would be slightly less service than the X27 since it gets more riders, but the service would be utilized.

 

Its not that bad now...

I would hope not because it was really frustrating waiting for so long. The odd thing is the train is crowded but not sardine can crowded and by the time you reach 2nd Ave, it empties out rather nicely.

[Gorgor]

lol... That's exactly why the X28 should be restored on weekends. With 760 riders, hourly service at certain points of the day would not break the bank. It would be slightly less service than the X27 since it gets more riders, but the service would be utilized.

 

 

I would hope not because it was really frustrating waiting for so long. The odd thing is the train is crowded but not sardine can crowded and by the time you reach 2nd Ave, it empties out rather nicely.

 

Would not break the bank?

 

Assuming that all 703 riders (according to 2011 data) are using pay per ride metrocards, the MTA only gets $4218 in fares.  Running a bus hourly on the weekends would need about 14 trips in each direction minimum, which means 56 total runs on the weekend.  I'm pretty sure that the costs needed to run those buses and pay those drivers would far outweigh the money taken in.

 

And that 703 means total trips taken, and I'd probably say most of those people taking the bus are using it round trip, and a small portion of those round trippers are using it on both days, so this probably only affects somewhere between 300 and 400 people, if even, who currently take the train or X17 express.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Would not break the bank?

 

Assuming that all 703 riders (according to 2011 data) are using pay per ride metrocards, the MTA only gets $4218 in fares.  Running a bus hourly on the weekends would need about 14 trips in each direction minimum, which means 56 total runs on the weekend.  I'm pretty sure that the costs needed to run those buses and pay those drivers would far outweigh the money taken in.

 

And that 703 means total trips taken, and I'd probably say most of those people taking the bus are using it round trip, and a small portion of those round trippers are using it on both days, so this probably only affects somewhere between 300 and 400 people, if even, who currently take the train or X17 express.

The X17 will continue to become more crowded as the population grows on Staten Island and more people enjoy its weekend service.  Southwest Brooklyn needs its own service, as the X17 was put into place due to budget reasons more than anything and does not fully serve X28 riders, particularly those east of Dyker Heights.  The stated that they would work to restore as many services as possible when their financial situation became better and it's time for them to keep their promise because the state has given them more funding to provide service improvements.

 

Your way thinking does nothing but create hardships for these communities who relied upon the X28 for their commutes.  It's funny how you found the X90 so unique for your commute, but everyone else has so many options.  When you live in the outer boroughs, you usually have limited amount of options as opposed to living in Manhattan and any service reductions makes it that much more difficult for the commute. The line is often knocked out and will continue to be knocked out to improve service.  

 

You keep trying to minimize the amount of people impacted by the X28 when in reality most express bus routes carry about about that amount on weekends, so the X28 is average in that regard, if you exclude the Riverdale express buses, the Staten Island express buses, and routes in the Bronx like the BxM7.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Would not break the bank?

 

Assuming that all 703 riders (according to 2011 data) are using pay per ride metrocards, the MTA only gets $4218 in fares. Running a bus hourly on the weekends would need about 14 trips in each direction minimum, which means 56 total runs on the weekend. I'm pretty sure that the costs needed to run those buses and pay those drivers would far outweigh the money taken in.

But compared to the entire queens express bus network on weekends, its pretty good (probably even comparable to the rest of the Brooklyn Bus Network, its also pretty good).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But compared to the entire queens express bus network on weekends, its pretty good (probably even comparable to the rest of the Brooklyn Bus Network, its also pretty good).

His analogy is ridiculous. I use MetroNorth off peak and the trains are not crowded at all.  They still get used though and no one would ever consider cutting them even if they don't have that many people on them.  Same thing here.  People are using the service and need it, so it should be provided.  We live in NYC where people use public transportation.

 

Me and him are of a different generation so we don't see eye to eye.  I understand that when you provide a service that is convenient with decent headways that if it's run properly it will be used unless people shun public transit or it just goes to places that people aren't interested in.

 

That's why here in Riverdale we have plenty of upper middle class folks that use public transit because we understand its importance and believe in being environmentally friendly.  It is a great thing to have such convenient services here and we certainly take advantage of it.  I was transit starved on Staten Island and moving here has certainly made me appreciate how lucky I am.  This is why I'm such a big transit advocate because I understand what a difference good public transportation can do for a community and have experienced this first hand.

[Culver]

Are you kidding me?? You obviously don't use the on weekends... That train runs like garbage.  I've waited almost 20 minutes for an train on weekends on multiple occasions, not to mention all of the stops it makes. I can see you recommending the but certainly not the .

This is where you run into the "whoops, I made something up" wall. Turns out I take the on weekends (imagine that). It doesn't have a 20 minute wait. Pretty much ever. Come on.

[AndrewJC]

The X27/X37 dont get two rider per bus off-peak. I usually see a good 7-9 people load on the X27 in the high 40's on a Sunday, and that's just the tipping point, so there obviously would be more. Not too sure about those midday trips, but I'm pretty sure they garner more than two riders.

 

I'm sorry, but running express buses carrying 7-9 people each is a massive misallocation of resources. 

 

If I remember correctly, a while ago residents made a big fuss about removing one of the tolls because it caused traffic backups, and the MTA eventually obliged. This isn't an issue now with the gateless tolling on the Henry Hudson (why hasn't that caught on anywhere else?) but the toll charges people coming in to Staten Island, probably for a reason.

 

Coincidentally, this was the same time congestion on the East River Bridges, Downtown Brooklyn, and Lower Manhattan increased by a lot, since you could head east without paying a toll on the Verrazano, and head west without paying a toll on the East River bridges and the PA tunnels.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/03/01/nyregion/one-way-toll-plan-voted-for-verrazano-s-travelers.html

 

I'm aware of that.  I've lived through plenty of them as a former Staten Island resident, but I'm also not that naïve to believe that all of the monies that's collected is going for the upkeep of the Verrazano.  That's been an argument made by plenty of Staten Islanders for years that they were lied to and told that there would be no toll once that bridge was paid for (this is going back years ago) and now look at it.  It's the highest toll in the U.S.

 

It's hardly a secret that the bridge and tunnel tolls subsidize transit - the MTA was formed in the 1960's specifically so that TBTA tolls could support the ailing subway and commuter railroads.

 

On the flip side, transit riders subsidize drivers on all city streets and on the toll-free bridges.

 

At seemingly every toll facility, a legend states that the toll was supposed to be eliminated once the facility was "paid for" (whatever that's supposed to mean). I doubt it's true at any of them.

 

It's not the highest toll in the U.S. On a round trip basis, the Verrazano toll is identical to the tolls on the five other major B&T crossings (ignoring the SI resident discount). And plenty of toll roads have higher tolls, albeit for longer distances - for example, the New York State Thruway charges $19.57 for its entire length, the New Jersey Turnpike charges $10.40 off-peak / $13.85 peak for its entire length, the Pennsylvania Turnpike charges $30.77 for its entire length (all one way tolls with EZPass). The corresponding Verrazano toll is $5.33.

 

 

My point is that the overall argument is that Southwest Brooklyn has limited options and that's another reason why the X28 should be restored. The train would be an example.  The X17 was never supposed to be a permanent situation, but a temporary one mainly due to budget constraints. Now that the has additional funding it would make sense to restore the X28.  This is the community's thinking.

 

Wrong. The weekend X28 was canceled, permanently, three years ago. There's nothing temporary about it.

 

The MTA is getting funding to make repairs after Sandy, and that includes necessary adjustments to service. So if it costs more to split the R than to run it through, those costs are being reimbursed, and the G shuttle bus, without which there'd be no decent connection between Nassau and Court Square (the B62 can't come close to meeting the demand), is being reimbursed. The alternative services for R riders - the various subway lines connecting with the R - are already running. There is simply no way to spin weekend X28 service as an alternative for R riders - the only stop it makes in Brooklyn near the R train is served by the X17 on weekends.

 

You got that right, but I do know what the communities have stated and what they want and they want the X28 back on weekends as do I.  I'm petitioning for it back and have been for some time so I'm well aware of what the communities of Southwest Brooklyn want and why esp. since I used to use the X28 on weekends and understand its importance.

 

The argument is very simple...  The will be knocked out for some time.  The is usually knocked out on weekends, which means limited options in Southwest Brooklyn.  Restoring the X28 gives those people a quick, reliable and convenient option because of the issues with the and .  As a matter of fact I witnessed this problem first hand last month. 

 

I took the X17 to Dyker Heights.  I wanted to go to Coney Island, but didn't know that the was knocked out and was terminating at Bay Parkway until it was too late. Even with that, the real issue was there were no shuttle buses running so the B82's were packed and some weren't going all the way to Stillwell Av, making matters worse.  The plans POORLY and you of all people should know this. Had the X28 been there, I wouldn't have had to have made three transfers (X17 to the B1 to the to the B82 to get to my destination which took close to 2 hours). 

 

The D is most certainly not usually knocked out on weekends! I'm not sure where you came up with that.

 

You didn't have to make three transfers. You could have walked one block to the F, or two blocks to the Q, and had a one-seat ride. The D/N outage north of Coney Island was very well publicized. (Even if you hadn't seen any of the publicity and had taken the D or N, you would have only had one transfer, not three.)

 

Instead of walking one block to the D or F or two blocks to the N or Q, you took an express bus to a point 1.5 miles from the nearest stop on the D. If you had a bad trip, you have only yourself to blame.

 

Are you kidding me?? You obviously don't use the on weekends... That train runs like garbage.  I've waited almost 20 minutes for an train on weekends on multiple occasions, not to mention all of the stops it makes. I can see you recommending the but certainly not the .

 

Even if you had waited 20 minutes for the F (which is highly unlikely), it would have gotten you to Coney Island a lot sooner. And if you had your heart set on riding the D, why did you take a bus to a point 1.5 miles away from the D when you were one block away from the outset?

 

Would not break the bank?

 

Assuming that all 703 riders (according to 2011 data) are using pay per ride metrocards, the MTA only gets $4218 in fares.  Running a bus hourly on the weekends would need about 14 trips in each direction minimum, which means 56 total runs on the weekend.  I'm pretty sure that the costs needed to run those buses and pay those drivers would far outweigh the money taken in.

 

And that 703 means total trips taken, and I'd probably say most of those people taking the bus are using it round trip, and a small portion of those round trippers are using it on both days, so this probably only affects somewhere between 300 and 400 people, if even, who currently take the train or X17 express.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdFpZajNOUnNmRkpTSGl2UjRjS2x4eEE&hl=en#gid=3

 

In 2010, the average fare paid per NYCT express bus trip was $3.99, so that adds up to only $2805. Scale up for the fare increase and you're still nowhere near $4218.

 

The weekend X28 had a total cost per rider of $29.40. That's just absurd.

 

The X17 will continue to become more crowded as the population grows on Staten Island and more people enjoy its weekend service.  Southwest Brooklyn needs its own service, as the X17 was put into place due to budget reasons more than anything and does not fully serve X28 riders, particularly those east of Dyker Heights.  The stated that they would work to restore as many services as possible when their financial situation became better and it's time for them to keep their promise because the state has given them more funding to provide service improvements.

 

X17 service is scheduled according to the loading guidelines: off-peak, up to 20 passengers per bus on a 60 minute headway, up to 35 passengers per bus on a 30 minute headway, up to 45 passengers per bus on a 20 minute headway, and up to 50 passengers per bus on a 15 minute headway or better. Running X28 service in addition is unnecessary.

 

The state hasn't given the MTA anything. The MTA collected about $40 million more than projected from dedicated funding sources, and the state only stole about half that. There was no gift, and a one-shot $20 "surplus" can't cover ongoing costs.

 

Over the past year, the MTA has been adding new service, including weekend X27 service, Sunday X17 service, and the new weekend X17 stop in Brooklyn. If funding is available for more improvements, I can think of hundreds of options more worthwhile than weekend X28 service.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm sorry, but running express buses carrying 7-9 people each is a massive misallocation of resources.

 

Wrong. The weekend X28 was canceled, permanently, three years ago. There's nothing temporary about it.

 

 

So you think eliminating all weekend Queens Express buses and Brooklyn is a good idea?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's not the highest toll in the U.S. On a round trip basis, the Verrazano toll is identical to the tolls on the five other major B&T crossings (ignoring the SI resident discount). And plenty of toll roads have higher tolls, albeit for longer distances - for example, the New York State Thruway charges $19.57 for its entire length, the New Jersey Turnpike charges $10.40 off-peak / $13.85 peak for its entire length, the Pennsylvania Turnpike charges $30.77 for its entire length (all one way tolls with EZPass). The corresponding Verrazano toll is $5.33.

 

 

 

Wrong. The weekend X28 was canceled, permanently, three years ago. There's nothing temporary about it.

 

The MTA is getting funding to make repairs after Sandy, and that includes necessary adjustments to service. So if it costs more to split the R than to run it through, those costs are being reimbursed, and the G shuttle bus, without which there'd be no decent connection between Nassau and Court Square (the B62 can't come close to meeting the demand), is being reimbursed. The alternative services for R riders - the various subway lines connecting with the R - are already running. There is simply no way to spin weekend X28 service as an alternative for R riders - the only stop it makes in Brooklyn near the R train is served by the X17 on weekends.

 

 

The D is most certainly not usually knocked out on weekends! I'm not sure where you came up with that.

 

You didn't have to make three transfers. You could have walked one block to the F, or two blocks to the Q, and had a one-seat ride. The D/N outage north of Coney Island was very well publicized. (Even if you hadn't seen any of the publicity and had taken the D or N, you would have only had one transfer, not three.)

 

Instead of walking one block to the D or F or two blocks to the N or Q, you took an express bus to a point 1.5 miles from the nearest stop on the D. If you had a bad trip, you have only yourself to blame.

 

 

Even if you had waited 20 minutes for the F (which is highly unlikely), it would have gotten you to Coney Island a lot sooner. And if you had your heart set on riding the D, why did you take a bus to a point 1.5 miles away from the D when you were one block away from the outset?

 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdFpZajNOUnNmRkpTSGl2UjRjS2x4eEE&hl=en#gid=3

 

In 2010, the average fare paid per NYCT express bus trip was $3.99, so that adds up to only $2805. Scale up for the fare increase and you're still nowhere near $4218.

 

The weekend X28 had a total cost per rider of $29.40. That's just absurd.

 

 

X17 service is scheduled according to the loading guidelines: off-peak, up to 20 passengers per bus on a 60 minute headway, up to 35 passengers per bus on a 30 minute headway, up to 45 passengers per bus on a 20 minute headway, and up to 50 passengers per bus on a 15 minute headway or better. Running X28 service in addition is unnecessary.

 

The state hasn't given the MTA anything. The MTA collected about $40 million more than projected from dedicated funding sources, and the state only stole about half that. There was no gift, and a one-shot $20 "surplus" can't cover ongoing costs.

 

Over the past year, the MTA has been adding new service, including weekend X27 service, Sunday X17 service, and the new weekend X17 stop in Brooklyn. If funding is available for more improvements, I can think of hundreds of options more worthwhile than weekend X28 service.

The X27 is NOT a new service.  It was a service restoration from 2010, being passed off as a "new service".  The X27 had weekend service until 2010 when it was cut due to budget constraints.

 

 

It states right here: "The NY MTA is deciding all the time how to spend the discretionary part of its budget. But rarely is that budget unexpectedly enriched by an extra $40 million, which occurred last month when Albany bestowed that much more than requested in state funds. Now the debate begins on how to spend it."

 

 

http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/transportation-nation/2013/apr/22/ny-mta-ponders-how-spend-extra-40-million/

 

As for my commute, what part of it wasn't a planned commute do you not understand?? I originally wasn't going to Coney Island but with a change of plans at the last minute, I saw an X17 and jumped on it since I was heading to Southern Brooklyn. The point was to get moving and figure out the particulars later. The was an afterthought.

 

As for the Verrazano, we're not talking about on a round trip basis.

 

You're also wrong about the X28.

 

It states right here: "Restoring B37 service, X28 service in Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights, and a new route that would go along 65thStreet down First Avenue towards Lutheran Medical Center are also on the table, Cappelli said."

 

"Cappelli explained that the 2010 service cuts were due to a $2 billion budget deficit. “I know how much the express bus cuts hurt. It was on everyone’s mind,” he said."

 

Source: http://www.homereporternews.com/news/general/bay-ridge-mta-roundtable-discussion/article_5bd61562-dbf6-11e1-8f51-0019bb2963f4.html

 

 

Cappelli is referring to X28 WEEKEND service because weekday service is back to where it was prior to 2010.

 

 

So you think eliminating all weekend Queens Express buses and Brooklyn is a good idea?

Surely he does even though those cuts would leave many riders stranded since they have no subways in those areas.