Montague St Tunnel Closure - Exp. Bus Service Restorations & Increases Requested

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. Pardon? Buses are absolutely vital - for providing "crosstown" transportation that the subway can't provide, for supplementing the subway for shorter trips, and for connecting people who aren't in walking distance of the subway to nearby stations. But duplicating the functionality of the subway for long trips is a serious drain on resources. I have nothing against buses, but sometimes there's a better tool for the job. And it's especially difficult to apply the word "vital" to a service that only carries a few people per hour and runs parallel to a subway line which carries thousands per hour.

 

2. Nobody was "stranded in their homes" by the service cuts. You're overdramatizing.

 

3. The round trip Verrazano toll for Staten Island residents is barely higher than the one way toll for Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, and Bronx residents at the Verrazano, Battery Tunnel, Midtown Tunnel, Triboro Bridge, Whitestone Bridge, and Throgs Neck Bridge. Of course the politicians are "fighting" to lower the toll even more - they're masters at pandering.

 

4. Yes, but when you missed the BM3, you took the X17 instead, even though the X17 doesn't go anywhere near Sheepshead Bay. Obviously, if you detest the subway so greatly that you prefer to waste time and make multiple transfers in order to reach your destination by bus, you're welcome to do so - but it hardly makes the case that express buses are in any way vital.

 

5. I'm comparing the various major transit options for reaching the Manhattan CBD from Riverdale: the three express bus lines, the two Metro-North stations, and the three local bus lines to the subway. I have family in Riverdale and I've made many trips there (by all three modes). I am not surprised that the people you associate with all prefer the express bus and Metro-North, but you have many neighbors who are not exactly like you, many of whom prefer the subway option - either because of the lower fare, or because of the better frequency, or because it drops them off closer to work, or because it usually takes less time and is far less prone to delays. If you don't like the subway, that's fine, but many of your neighbors ride it every day.

 

6. Did I ever suggest otherwise?

 

7. The 1 train, which (with the help of the Bx7 and Bx10, or even a walk down the hill) serves Riverdale. It runs every 8 minutes and, especially on weekends, it carries far more Riverdale residents into Manhattan than the express buses.

 

 

I have no idea where you're getting your numbers from, but they're completely wrong. None of the New York City express buses come close to breaking even.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdFpZajNOUnNmRkpTSGl2UjRjS2x4eEE&hl=en#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aha-LfXMlWNBdHd4QkhLRF92cURWNWdSbzNfSjJwWWc&hl=en#gid=1

If it makes a financial gain overall per week, then it will stay running. That will take some calculation.

[AndrewJC]

If it makes a financial gain overall per week, then it will stay running. That will take some calculation.

 

Most of the transit system runs at a loss. That's why the MTA depends on dedicated tax revenues, toll revenues, etc. to stay afloat.

 

The express buses are particularly heavily subsidized.

[CenSin]

1. Pardon? Buses are absolutely vital - for providing "crosstown" transportation that the subway can't provide, for supplementing the subway for shorter trips, and for connecting people who aren't in walking distance of the subway to nearby stations. But duplicating the functionality of the subway for long trips is a serious drain on resources. I have nothing against buses, but sometimes there's a better tool for the job. And it's especially difficult to apply the word "vital" to a service that only carries a few people per hour and runs parallel to a subway line which carries thousands per hour.

His definition of "vital" seems far-removed from the norm.

 

This is why I must repeat:

 

Everyone wants something. Everyone thinks they know what they need. But a line has to be drawn somewhere. If the demands made sense, they would get it.

…and your answer is the answer to his response to my post:

 

Excuse me, this isn't a want but a NEED. Let's not confuse the two.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. Pardon? Buses are absolutely vital - for providing "crosstown" transportation that the subway can't provide, for supplementing the subway for shorter trips, and for connecting people who aren't in walking distance of the subway to nearby stations. But duplicating the functionality of the subway for long trips is a serious drain on resources. I have nothing against buses, but sometimes there's a better tool for the job. And it's especially difficult to apply the word "vital" to a service that only carries a few people per hour and runs parallel to a subway line which carries thousands per hour.

 

2. Nobody was "stranded in their homes" by the service cuts. You're overdramatizing.

 

3. The round trip Verrazano toll for Staten Island residents is barely higher than the one way toll for Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens, and Bronx residents at the Verrazano, Battery Tunnel, Midtown Tunnel, Triboro Bridge, Whitestone Bridge, and Throgs Neck Bridge. Of course the politicians are "fighting" to lower the toll even more - they're masters at pandering.

 

4. Yes, but when you missed the BM3, you took the X17 instead, even though the X17 doesn't go anywhere near Sheepshead Bay. Obviously, if you detest the subway so greatly that you prefer to waste time and make multiple transfers in order to reach your destination by bus, you're welcome to do so - but it hardly makes the case that express buses are in any way vital.

 

5. I'm comparing the various major transit options for reaching the Manhattan CBD from Riverdale: the three express bus lines, the two Metro-North stations, and the three local bus lines to the subway. I have family in Riverdale and I've made many trips there (by all three modes). I am not surprised that the people you associate with all prefer the express bus and Metro-North, but you have many neighbors who are not exactly like you, many of whom prefer the subway option - either because of the lower fare, or because of the better frequency, or because it drops them off closer to work, or because it usually takes less time and is far less prone to delays. If you don't like the subway, that's fine, but many of your neighbors ride it every day.

 

6. Did I ever suggest otherwise?

 

7. The 1 train, which (with the help of the Bx7 and Bx10, or even a walk down the hill) serves Riverdale. It runs every 8 minutes and, especially on weekends, it carries far more Riverdale residents into Manhattan than the express buses.

 

1. You're excused... I was on a local bus that only had a few people tonight.  That doesn't mean that the bus isn't vital.  Your way of thinking is downright foolish.  There were people that thought there was no bus and either walked or took a taxi to get home.  This is exactly why bus service in the city continues to decline because there are fewer buses and they generally aren't on time.  You sit there on focus on how many people are riding and not WHY.  That's the key.  

 

2.  Really? How do you know that?  There are some people that were indeed stranded by the service cuts as they live in isolated areas that only had one bus so yes they were stranded unless they could afford to get a taxi.  

 

3. Well if that's the case then all of the businesses leaving Staten Island because of the high tolls are just exaggerating.  Everyone is just pandering and exaggerating.... The fact of the matter is the high tolls are killing business and jobs on Staten Island and any politician serving Staten Island with half a brain knows this.  

 

4. Um yeah what? For the thousandth time I said when I missed the BM3 I changed plans and went elsewhere.  What part of that don't you get???

 

5.  The only people that take the subway are those that can't afford the express bus or MetroNorth because the express bus or MetroNorth are far quicker.  I've actually tried the whole local bus to the subway set up and it's ridiculous.  The sheer amount of transfers involved alone make the trip beyond tolerable.  The express bus beats that set up by a mile, especially during late nights.  You can get home on the express bus easily in 30 - 40 minutes, vs over an hour with the local bus to the subway because the Bx7 doesn't run after a certain time and the Bx10 only runs once an hour.  Hell even during the day the express bus is far quicker due to the transfers and waiting involved, plus the is local from 96th street on.  

 

6.  Oh now you're not sure... 

 

7.  Yeah and?? Big deal.  The local buses run like garbage in Riverdale, so what good is having the run every 8 minutes if you can't get a damn bus to the subway station??

[Fresh Pond]

5. The only people that take the subway are those that can't afford the express bus or MetroNorth because the express bus or MetroNorth are far quicker. I've actually tried the whole local bus to the subway set up and it's ridiculous. The sheer amount of transfers involved alone make the trip beyond tolerable. The express bus beats that set up by a mile, especially during late nights. You can get home on the express bus easily in 30 - 40 minutes, vs over an hour with the local bus to the subway because the Bx7 doesn't run after a certain time and the Bx10 only runs once an hour. Hell even during the day the express bus is far quicker due to the transfers and waiting involved, plus the is local from 96th street on.

That's a damn lie right there...

 

Perfect example, about 2 years ago while I was still working at Gristedes over in Waterside, I decided to take the express bus to work since they all stopped down the block on 23 St & 1 Av.

 

...for starters, just to get to the closest express bus stop from my house (the BM2 stop on 105 St & Flatlands) took 20 minutes alone since I had to walk down there. (could've took the B60, but that line is a joke within its own)

 

It took about an hour and a half by the time I actually got off the bus at 23 St & 1 Av, compared to the usual 40-45 minutes to get to that same location by taking the to the M15.

 

People take the train because its convenient for them. The express buses don't serve a bunch of areas, and there are cheaper, faster alternatives

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That's a damn lie right there...

 

Perfect example, about 2 years ago while I was still working at Gristedes over in Waterside, I decided to take the express bus to work since they all stopped down the block on 23 St & 1 Av.

 

...for starters, just to get to the closest express bus stop from my house (the BM2 stop on 105 St & Flatlands) took 20 minutes alone since I had to walk down there. (could've took the B60, but that line is a joke within its own)

 

It took about an hour and a half by the time I actually got off the bus at 23 St & 1 Av, compared to the usual 40-45 minutes to get to that same location by taking the to the M15.

 

People take the train because its convenient for them. The express buses don't serve a bunch of areas, and there are cheaper, faster alternatives

I'm talking about in Riverdale not in general.  Your trip has nothing to do with a trip from Riverdale.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

[quote name="Via Garibaldi 8" post="690677"

5. The only people that take the subway are those that can't afford the express bus or MetroNorth because the express bus or MetroNorth are far quicker. I've actually tried the whole local bus to the subway set up and it's ridiculous. The sheer amount of transfers involved alone make the trip beyond tolerable. The express bus beats that set up by a mile, especially during late nights. You can get home on the express bus easily in 30 - 40 minutes, vs over an hour with the local bus to the subway because the Bx7 doesn't run after a certain time and the Bx10 only runs once an hour. Hell even during the day the express bus is far quicker due to the transfers and waiting involved, plus the is local from 96th street on.

 

The first sentence is true to an extent, but is not true as well.

 

That's a damn lie right there...

 

Perfect example, about 2 years ago while I was still working at Gristedes over in Waterside, I decided to take the express bus to work since they all stopped down the block on 23 St & 1 Av.

 

...for starters, just to get to the closest express bus stop from my house (the BM2 stop on 105 St & Flatlands) took 20 minutes alone since I had to walk down there. (could've took the B60, but that line is a joke within its own)

 

It took about an hour and a half by the time I actually got off the bus at 23 St & 1 Av, compared to the usual 40-45 minutes to get to that same location by taking the to the M15.

 

People take the train because its convenient for them. The express buses don't serve a bunch of areas, and there are cheaper, faster alternatives

But see that walking time and waiting time is about the same time you can get to te subway.Its convenient to those that live directly or close to it that don't have direct bus service to the train without a mild walk.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Most of the transit system runs at a loss. That's why the MTA depends on dedicated tax revenues, toll revenues, etc. to stay afloat.

 

The express buses are particularly heavily subsidized.

Then lets eliminate every single service that costs above $2.50 (Local) and $6.00 (Express) per rider to operate. That will surely save the agency money.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then lets eliminate every single service that costs above $2.50 (Local and Express) per rider to operate. That will surely save the agency money.

That seems to be what he's saying...

 

The first sentence is true to an extent, but is not true as well.

How so?  Even if you have a short bus ride to the train station, if your bus if often delayed, that right there can cost you a lot of time, even with a train running on 8 minute headways.  It is no secret that the local buses in Riverdale run very poorly in comparison to the express bus.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

That seems to be what he's saying...

 

 

How so?  Even if you have a short bus ride to the train station, if your bus if often delayed, that right there can cost you a lot of time, even with a train running on 8 minute headways.  It is no secret that the local buses in Riverdale run very poorly in comparison to the express bus.

Look, I know that people that cant regularly afford the express bus take it at times. Yes express buses are faster and whatever else. People however dont take the express bus (of those that dont), because most of the time, their home express doesnt leave them close enough to where they want to go.

 

For example, let's say I have a job on 8th and 50th. From my house, before the QM24 change, I would be able to take the QM24 along 8th Avenue (that was the original routing anyways). Now, I would need to take the express and then walk two blocks. Two Long blocks. Also, time counts a lot, and what else. If someone from Beechurst needed to go to work on lets say, 86th and 5th, they are just gonna take the Q15, then the , then the . 

 

Lets say they leave at 5:40 to go to work

 

They could catch the 15 at 5:53, or the express at 5:55 AM. 

 

The 15 arrives flushing at 6:15 AM, to catch the 6:21 Express, arriving Grand Central at 6:45, then the at 6:55 AM arrive 86th at 7:01 AM, and having a 6  minute walk getting there at 7:07. At that time there still isnt many delays

 

The QM2 arrives at 6:45 at the last stop (3 Avenue service in the area doesnt start until 6:30 AM), and then would have a 5 minute walk to 59th and Lexington, getting on the same at around 6:58, then walk to work and arrive at around the same time, but the subway has a lower fare, so why waste extra money on a similar length but pay more. Sure there will be crowding, but those problems will allieviate (at least until you get on the .

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Look, I know that people that cant regularly afford the express bus take it at times. Yes express buses are faster and whatever else. People however dont take the express bus (of those that dont), because most of the time, their home express doesnt leave them close enough to where they want to go.

 

For example, let's say I have a job on 8th and 50th. From my house, before the QM24 change, I would be able to take the QM24 along 8th Avenue (that was the original routing anyways). Now, I would need to take the express and then walk two blocks. Two Long blocks. Also, time counts a lot, and what else. If someone from Beechurst needed to go to work on lets say, 86th and 5th, they are just gonna take the Q15, then the , then the . 

 

Lets say they leave at 5:40 to go to work

 

They could catch the 15 at 5:53, or the express at 5:55 AM. 

 

The 15 arrives flushing at 6:15 AM, to catch the 6:21 Express, arriving Grand Central at 6:45, then the at 6:55 AM arrive 86th at 7:01 AM, and having a 6  minute walk getting there at 7:07. At that time there still isnt many delays

 

The QM2 arrives at 6:45 at the last stop (3 Avenue service in the area doesnt start until 6:30 AM), and then would have a 5 minute walk to 59th and Lexington, getting on the same at around 6:58, then walk to work and arrive at around the same time, but the subway has a lower fare, so why waste extra money on a similar length but pay more. Sure there will be crowding, but those problems will allieviate (at least until you get on the .

Why are you telling me about Queens for? I am talking about Riverdale, NOT other neighborhoods and I thought that was pretty clear before.  There is no need to tell me about other neighborhoods because I'm not talking about those neighborhoods, but strictly MY neighborhood and what is fastest here.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Why are you telling me about Queens for? I am talking about Riverdale, NOT other neighborhoods and I thought that was pretty clear before.  There is no need to tell me about other neighborhoods because I'm not talking about those neighborhoods, but strictly MY neighborhood and what is fastest here.  

Okay, but no one is gonna take an express bus from riverdale, if they are going to say, norwood. Thats my point. The express doesnt always go where you want to go. If a riverdalian worked in lets say, wall street, or brooklyn (again, not true, but suppose), they;re going to opt for the mode of transport closest to where they want to go, which sadly, is usually the subway (because most express buses dont start reverse peak service until 8:00 AM.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay, but no one is gonna take an express bus from riverdale, if they are going to say, norwood. Thats my point. The express doesnt always go where you want to go. If a riverdalian worked in lets say, wall street, or brooklyn (again, not true, but suppose), they;re going to opt for the mode of transport closest to where they want to go, which sadly, is usually the subway (because most express buses dont start reverse peak service until 8:00 AM.

Yeah, but I'm not talking about anything but COMMUTER traveling, which would be going from Riverdale to Manhattan as in the business area.  That's why I talked abut MetroNorth, the express bus and the local bus to the subway.  Someone who works on the far East Side of Midtown would have a ridiculous commute without the express bus or MetroNorth.

[Grand Concourse]

Are you trying to say everyone else's points dont matter because they dont live where you are? If you're trying to make the point the express bus is superior than the local bus to subway in general, then that doesn't work at all as everyone has different commutes. The only plus about the express bus is you probably have a higher chance of getting a guaranteed seat and not have to make as many transfers, but if the walking to/from the nearest express bus stop is more of a hassle, then i don't see the time/hassle savings.

For me i'd probably have to take the local bus to the junction for the bm2, but even the 2 from lower manhattan to brooklyn just barely beat out the express bus, so for the money, i don't see the advantage if i can just take the subway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Are you trying to say everyone else's points dont matter because they dont live where you are? If you're trying to make the point the express bus is superior than the local bus to subway in general, then that doesn't work at all as everyone has different commutes. The only plus about the express bus is you probably have a higher chance of getting a guaranteed seat and not have to make as many transfers, but if the walking to/from the nearest express bus stop is more of a hassle, then i don't see the time/hassle savings.

For me i'd probably have to take the local bus to the junction for the bm2, but even the 2 from lower manhattan to brooklyn just barely beat out the express bus, so for the money, i don't see the advantage if i can just take the subway.

I'm saying that everyone else's situation is different, so what is convenient for one person may not be for another.  We don't have a subway here and the express buses pretty much run down the same corridors as the local buses so the walking is the same. For my commute, I would have to take one local bus and three trains to get to my destination, so the express bus works very well in my case due to the one seat ride and it's also much faster.  Having lived on Staten Island for years and having dealt with taking the bus to the ferry to one or two subways, I can assure you that unless the subway is close by and doesn't require a ton of transfers if you have another option that is more convenient (whatever that may be) more than likely you would take that option unless you couldn't afford it.  I mean no one would put themselves through that torture unnecessarily.

 

I dealt with the whole bus to the ferry to the subway nonsense because I didn't know about the express buses at first and after a while the commute became exhausting, not only due to the multitude of transfers but also the amount of time wasted waiting for one thing or another.  The more time you have to spend transferring, the more likely you are to have a longer commute and more of a chance of something going wrong.  I don't know why you're trying to make it sound as if transferring is not a big deal because it is, especially when the transfers are not always across the platform or involve a bus to the subway, etc.  One transfer I can see, but when you have to make two or three transfers, that is indeed not so easy.

 

Okay, but no one is gonna take an express bus from riverdale, if they are going to say, norwood. Thats my point. The express doesnt always go where you want to go. If a riverdalian worked in lets say, wall street, or brooklyn (again, not true, but suppose), they;re going to opt for the mode of transport closest to where they want to go, which sadly, is usually the subway (because most express buses dont start reverse peak service until 8:00 AM.

Express buses are supposed to serve central areas.  They're not meant to go everywhere.  The point I was making was that if you live in an area that isn't close to a subway or where there is NO subway and you're commuting to or from a central area in Manhattan, unless you like making a ton of transfers, you will usually use the option that is most convenient, and it doesn't have to be an express bus.  

[Grand Concourse]

Ok, fair enough ^

I do agree that if I had to make a lot of transfers then yes, the convenience of an express bus is worth the cost. But for me the most transferring I'd need would be the 5 to 6 or 2-4-6. Since the lexington ave trains are so frequent, it's not a big deal for me about waiting for the transfer. Now for your case in SI, of course I'd rather take the express bus all the way and bypass the local bus, sirt, ferry and then a subway/bus ride in Manhattan. I fully understand SI needs their express buses. Otoh, for the other 4 boroughs it depends on where the person lives in proximity to a subway or express bus stop. So it isn't black and white about why a person would rather take the train over an express bus even if they could afford the express bus fare.

[realizm]

The Daily News reports that city officials announced on July 30th that the Seastreak Rockaway-Manhattan ferry would have a stop @ 58th St in Brooklyn Army Terminal, from Aug. 5 through Labor Day, in the midst of the MTA's announcement of the  split effective 11:30PM on Friday Aug 2nd. However, the service will only be extended beyond that date if demands justifies it and funding becomes available. (It is cited in the article that a large portion of the services will be funded by FEMA grants.)

In response, Justin Brannan, who is a spokeperson for Councilman Vincent Gentile (D-Bay Ridge) states:

"We don't feel that a month is enough time to gauge whether this is a viable alternative..... You have to give people time to know that it’s there before falling in love with the ferry”
 


Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/ferry-service-expands-bay-ridge-sunset-park-train-outage-article-1.1412743#ixzz2ajN8ut6T

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The Daily News reports that city officials announced on July 30th that the Seastreak Rockaway-Manhattan ferry would have a stop @ 58th St in Brooklyn Army Terminal, from Aug. 5 through Labor Day, in the midst of the MTA's announcement of the  split effective 11:30PM on Friday Aug 2nd. However, the service will only be extended beyond that date if demands justifies it and funding becomes available. (It is cited in the article that a large portion of the services will be funded by FEMA grants.)

 

In response, Justin Brannan, who is a spokeperson for Councilman Vincent Gentile (D-Bay Ridge) states:

 

"We don't feel that a month is enough time to gauge whether this is a viable alternative..... You have to give people time to know that it’s there before falling in love with the ferry”

 

 

 

Link: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/ferry-service-expands-bay-ridge-sunset-park-train-outage-article-1.1412743#ixzz2ajN8ut6T

Once again Mr. Gentile finds a way to get things done.  I do agree that a month isn't enough time, but it's a start.

[Guest Lance]

I wonder how many people will use this option.

[realizm]

Once again Mr. Gentile finds a way to get things done.  I do agree that a month isn't enough time, but it's a start.

 

I wonder how many people will use this option.

 

That's what I'm asking, but this is why I am wondering:

 

The walk to the terminal from say 86th Street or Bay Ridge Ave and 95th Street is immense by average standards, but I can't think of any other piers that are closer to the residential areas of Bay Ridge, which is the main problem with ferry option concerning the Montague tubes closure hence the split. However the service combined with increased express bus service with reduced fares can work. *If* the ferry service can be made effective for the 14 month duration of the emergency long term repair of the BMT tunnel to Downtown Manhattan.

 

This is a natural disaster issue, so why can't the federal government and Albany muster up the political will to appropriate funds for this to work? Via FEMA ? Can't that be worked out? It's not too hard.

 

Albany lawmakers however played political games as it is with the MTA stealing millions of dollars from the public benefits corporation resulting in numerous problems. Seems like it's not getting any better. Local representatives need to develop a strategy to sidestep the cockblock by the prominent politicians, but nevertheless its good to see that they are indeed putting up a hard fight, going blow for blow with the senior officials of the state government.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

They are handing out "Fix & Fortify" brochures about the "service change", saw guys at Whitehall and Court and I'd imagine they're elsewhere too.

[Culver]

I wonder how many people will use this option.

By George, an entire dozen might use it! An option that's on the shore and will end up being not really faster than + transfer.

Waste of f**king money. Could've just added X27 service.

[RtrainBlues]

It's nice the B37 will come back via 3rd Avenue in June 2014, but that seems a long time to wait.  And unfortunately they are planning on shutting it down around 11pm each night instead of running it on extended headways from 11pm-5am.  The late night B37 would often save me up to an hour in commuting time, instead of waiting 20-30 minutes for an N at Jay St, then another 20-30 minutes for an R shuttle at 36th St.  I could simply take the A from Manhattan to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, and the B37 would whisk me to Bay Ridge in under 30 minutes at midnight.

[AndrewJC]

It's nice the B37 will come back via 3rd Avenue in June 2014, but that seems a long time to wait.  And unfortunately they are planning on shutting it down around 11pm each night instead of running it on extended headways from 11pm-5am.  The late night B37 would often save me up to an hour in commuting time, instead of waiting 20-30 minutes for an N at Jay St, then another 20-30 minutes for an R shuttle at 36th St.  I could simply take the A from Manhattan to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, and the B37 would whisk me to Bay Ridge in under 30 minutes at midnight.

 

Late night headways are 20 minutes, not 20-30 minutes. Of course, with flagging all over the place, trains are often late, but I don't see that happening much to the R shuttle.

 

Also - a friendly reminder that the late night N will be running over the bridge, so it won't be stopping at Jay Street. Catch it (or the D) in Manhattan instead, or (if you have an unlimited) take the A to Hoyt and walk to DeKalb for the D/N. (Come to think of it, that may be your best bet in general, so that you're not relying solely on the N.)

[Guest Lance]

An update to the new Bay Ridge/Lower Manhattan ferry (posted here as it pertains to the Montague closure and there's no section on ferries here):

 

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/36/32/br_newferryride_2013_08_09_bk.html

 

While you can argue that only 120 people used that ferry on the first day because it was new, I think I can safely say it wasn't the numbers they were looking for. And I don't like how the EDC is hiding how many riders it needs to run this service without being heavily subsidized.