RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Share #1 Posted August 13, 2013 Joe lhota pushes the idea of Park & Ride at Subway terminals. What do you guys think? http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/08/13/from-lhota-park-and-ride-and-transit-wifi-trumps-congestion-pricing/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted August 13, 2013 Share #2 Posted August 13, 2013 It could work,I mean if you look at Chicago all terminals except O'Hare (although Rosemont and Cumberland have parking) on the Blue Line and Harlem-Lake and Cottage Grove on the Green Line have parking at the station.I think at most terminals in NYC could have parking set up near the station and boost ridership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted August 13, 2013 Share #3 Posted August 13, 2013 Hell no. Surface lots and multilevel garages destroy the streetscape and are unpleasant at best, and underground parking is too expensive to build. It would destroy what makes neighborhoods like Flushing and Jamaica pleasant by driving a concrete stake into their commercial hearts. The only place i'm sort of okay with building park'n'rides at is at SIR stations, and that's because they don't run near very much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted August 13, 2013 Share #4 Posted August 13, 2013 I only know of one at Rockaway Pkwy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious2train Posted August 13, 2013 Share #5 Posted August 13, 2013 Flatbush Av used to have one, but it's long gone, replaced by Target and a few other stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #6 Posted August 13, 2013 I'm sorry while I support Lhota, people from the suburbs are NOT going to drive in their nice cars to get on a filthy subway with panhandlers and other low lives. Just not happening. If anything he should push them to ride MetroNorth and the LIRR which makes more sense, but there needs to be an incentive there to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted August 13, 2013 Share #7 Posted August 13, 2013 Flatbush Av used to have one, but it's long gone, replaced by Target and a few other stores. Wasn't that lot for Brooklyn College students? I'm sorry while I support Lhota, people from the suburbs are NOT going to drive in their nice cars to get on a filthy subway with panhandlers and other low lives. Just not happening. If anything he should push them to ride MetroNorth and the LIRR which makes more sense, but there needs to be an incentive there to do so. I would pretty much agree with this statement for people that live in the outer skirts of NYC's subway area. Hell no. Surface lots and multilevel garages destroy the streetscape and are unpleasant at best, and underground parking is too expensive to build. It would destroy what makes neighborhoods like Flushing and Jamaica pleasant by driving a concrete stake into their commercial hearts. The only place i'm sort of okay with building park'n'rides at is at SIR stations, and that's because they don't run near very much at all. Flushing has a lot of underground parking lots in the area already, heck they have a lot of above ground parking complexes also, what part of Flushing are you referring to?! A lot of the parking centers are close to the Flushing station as well but of course not meant to be a Park-n-Ride center and nor is it big enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted August 13, 2013 I think if there going to do some park and rides. maybe in key spots closer to Manhattan Southern Bronx maybe? Ie Yankee Stadium area, Long Island City, Downtown Brooklyn. I agree I can't see people driving to a terminal and enduring a long subway ride. For that Id drive all the way in or Take the LIRR or MN. Ive seen something like this work with PATH with a good amount of people driving to Harrison and taking the PATH into Manhattan. Id love to see some information/data on Commuting patterns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #9 Posted August 13, 2013 I think if there going to do some park and rides. maybe in key spots closer to Manhattan Southern Bronx maybe? Ie Yankee Stadium area, Long Island City, Downtown Brooklyn. I agree I can't see people driving to a terminal and enduring a long subway ride. For that Id drive all the way in or Take the LIRR or MN. Ive seen something like this work with PATH with a good amount of people driving to Harrison and taking the PATH into Manhattan. Id love to see some information/data on Commuting patterns. lol... No way in hell is anyone driving from Westchester and parking down in the South Bronx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 13, 2013 Share #10 Posted August 13, 2013 Wasn't that lot for Brooklyn College students? I would pretty much agree with this statement for people that live in the outer skirts of NYC's subway area. Flushing has a lot of underground parking lots in the area already, heck they have a lot of above ground parking complexes also, what part of Flushing are you referring to?! A lot of the parking centers are close to the Flushing station as well but of course not meant to be a Park-n-Ride center and nor is it big enough. I think the one that Target replaced was a muni parking lot like the one in Flushing. Brooklyn college has a spot on Av H and Nostrand. I honestly don't see an issue about the idea of garages next to the subway terminals as not everyone lives in Nassau or such places. The subways may not be the greatest, but they are probably better than having to take a local bus to the subway. Drive and then take the train directly, keep the extra cars off the streets. The one in Flushing should be rebuilt as a 6 or 7 story complex given the land that is being taken away for development. That area really needs the parking spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #11 Posted August 13, 2013 I think the one that Target replaced was a muni parking lot like the one in Flushing. Brooklyn college has a spot on Av H and Nostrand. I honestly don't see an issue about the idea of garages next to the subway terminals as not everyone lives in Nassau or such places. The subways may not be the greatest, but they are probably better than having to take a local bus to the subway. Drive and then take the train directly, keep the extra cars off the streets. The one in Flushing should be rebuilt as a 6 or 7 story complex given the land that is being taken away for development. That area really needs the parking spaces. It's a terrible idea because you'll have a ton of congestion with people in their cars going to the subway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 13, 2013 Share #12 Posted August 13, 2013 What's the difference? People are probably going to go into Manhattan with their cars. At least if they can get to the first stop on the subway with a chance to get a seat, they might take the subway into Manhattan instead of trying to find a parking space or deal with the traffic on the bridge or tunnels. Obviously there's also the express bus, but some places you need to take a local bus to get to the nearest one. I stand by what I said, there is no problem, if it gets a few more cars off the road (specifically the river crossings) then good. Plus, maybe the surrounding area could use a garage if parking space is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted August 13, 2013 lol... No way in hell is anyone driving from Westchester and parking down in the South Bronx. People do it for Yankee games. But it's a strange thought just in the way the Subway systems been built. Other Cities with newer systems build where the cars are (BART) and where the People are (DC Metro) . Park and ride was a part of the planing for these systems. Here people just filtered out with the lines and built around them. I think park and ride could Work in some areas. Maybe a Marcy Ave ,LIC Downtown Brooklyn area I think more for people working in Lower or Westside Manhattan. Bronx side maybe 242nd or (D)125th street area for Westside access. Also for Park and Ride to fully work there has to be easy Parkway,Expressway access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vistausss Posted August 13, 2013 Share #14 Posted August 13, 2013 I'm sorry while I support Lhota, people from the suburbs are NOT going to drive in their nice cars to get on a filthy subway with panhandlers and other low lives. Just not happening. If anything he should push them to ride MetroNorth and the LIRR which makes more sense, but there needs to be an incentive there to do so. No VG8, stop with your Spuyten Duyvil idea: it'll never get the extra parking space you want so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #15 Posted August 13, 2013 What's the difference? People are probably going to go into Manhattan with their cars. At least if they can get to the first stop on the subway with a chance to get a seat, they might take the subway into Manhattan instead of trying to find a parking space or deal with the traffic on the bridge or tunnels. Obviously there's also the express bus, but some places you need to take a local bus to get to the nearest one. I stand by what I said, there is no problem, if it gets a few more cars off the road (specifically the river crossings) then good. Plus, maybe the surrounding area could use a garage if parking space is limited. What about all of the congestion to get to the subway or did you forget about that? People do it for Yankee games. But it's a strange thought just in the way the Subway systems been built. Other Cities with newer systems build where the cars are (BART) and where the People are (DC Metro) . Park and ride was a part of the planing for these systems. Here people just filtered out with the lines and built around them. I think park and ride could Work in some areas. Maybe a Marcy Ave ,LIC Downtown Brooklyn area I think more for people working in Lower or Westside Manhattan. Bronx side maybe 242nd or (D)125th street area for Westside access. Also for Park and Ride to fully work there has to be easy Parkway,Expressway access. Yeah and look at how backed up the Major Deegan is during the Yankees' games. I've been stuck on that expressway for over an hour in some cases. No VG8, stop with your Spuyten Duyvil idea: it'll never get the extra parking space you want so badly. Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted August 13, 2013 What about all of the congestion to get to the subway or did you forget about that? Yeah and look at how backed up the Major Deegan is during the Yankees' games. I've been stuck on that expressway for over an hour in some cases. Huh?? I wish I had a comeback for the Deegan haha can't argue that one. It's always backed up going to I95. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 13, 2013 Share #17 Posted August 13, 2013 What about all of the congestion to get to the subway or did you forget about that? With the subways, they are all spread out. If you want to get to Manhattan from the outer boroughs, you have to cross thru the bridges or tunnels. If there's going to be congestion, then may as well limit the bottlenecks going over or under the river. Or is it because it is the 'filthy subway' instead of a commuter rail, you don't give a damn about it? (edit, sorry bob, clicked the down by mistake. I'll give your other post an up to balance it out.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #18 Posted August 13, 2013 With the subways, they are all spread out. If you want to get to Manhattan from the outer boroughs, you have to cross thru the bridges or tunnels. If there's going to be congestion, then may as well limit the bottlenecks going over or under the river. And screw over all of the folks in the outer boroughs right? That's a great way on thinking. That's precisely one problem with congestion pricing that would have to be sorted out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo19 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #19 Posted August 13, 2013 I would advise against this, as really this is just moving the congestion caused by mass amount of autos. The whole purpose of the subway is to serve as an inter urban rapid transit system for the four five boroughs of NYC. It does that well, and personally I don't see a need for park and rides, etc. In regard to suburban rail it's slightly different, but even then attempts should be made to keep transit access at a higher priority then parking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #20 Posted August 13, 2013 I would advise against this, as really this is just moving the congestion caused by mass amount of autos. The whole purpose of the subway is to serve as an inter urban rapid transit system for the four five boroughs of NYC. It does that well, and personally I don't see a need for park and rides, etc. In regard to suburban rail it's slightly different, but even then attempts should be made to keep transit access at a higher priority then parking. I agree with 70% of what you said like I said before I think there are afew areas that could support park and ride. there's lapse in suburban rail coverage to the lower half of Manhattan. I dont have the ridership data to support where the commuter flow is. I know theres a good amount of people that take the LIRR,MN and NJT into the city and then subway as well. Harrison on the PATH is used for a park and ride. Now im also taking into account the fact the ESA may help solve some of these issues. But places like Long Island City, Woodside, Harlem Williamsburg just like Harrison and Newark may be able to sustain a park and ride system. I dont think it would work in most places but there are afew I think it could. a few stops out of Manhattan and near a parkway or expressway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRunRob Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share #21 Posted August 13, 2013 Park-and-ride candidates Vernon-Jackson 3mins to GC 7 to TSQ Court Square 7/10mins 23rd street 3/11 Mins Queens(Boro) Plaza 4/13 mins Woodside 15mins Marcy Ave 7/20 Mins Marcy Ave 7/15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 13, 2013 Share #22 Posted August 13, 2013 And screw over all of the folks in the outer boroughs right? That's a great way on thinking. That's precisely one problem with congestion pricing that would have to be sorted out... How does it screw over everyone else? It would move the bottlenecks away from the river crossings. Do they really think they can get all the cars going thru the bridges and tunnels to have an ezpass reader? What if the person isn't from the local area and driving in from way out of the tri state area? You are just against it because it isn't a commuter railroad. If this was about the LIRR or MNCR stops, you'd probably be in support for it, but it's clear you have a bias against the 'filthy subways'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 13, 2013 Share #23 Posted August 13, 2013 How does it screw over everyone else? It would move the bottlenecks away from the river crossings. Do they really think they can get all the cars going thru the bridges and tunnels to have an ezpass reader? What if the person isn't from the local area and driving in from way out of the tri state area? You are just against it because it isn't a commuter railroad. If this was about the LIRR or MNCR stops, you'd probably be in support for it, but it's clear you have a bias against the 'filthy subways'. Um not at all... What I'm arguing is exactly what others who are against congestion pricing argue, which is that you would have a ton of traffic in the areas where these park and rides are, similar to what would happen if a freeze zone was put into place where you would have to pay a fee to enter into Manhattan save below 60th street. Then you'd have all of this traffic above 60th street. The only difference is maybe you won't have so many side streets congested with people trying to park, assuming that the park and rides didn't cost anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peacemak3r Posted August 13, 2013 Share #24 Posted August 13, 2013 It's a terrible idea because you'll have a ton of congestion with people in their cars going to the subway. For Flushing at least, there is ton of congestion without an expansion of floors in their complex parking locations anyway. You have to remember that Flushing as a lot of bus terminals as well and with some of the blocks where you can't make turns as well. It won't matter if they expand the floors there for this reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted August 13, 2013 Share #25 Posted August 13, 2013 Park-and-ride candidates Vernon-Jackson 3mins to GC 7 to TSQ Court Square 7/10mins 23rd street 3/11 Mins Queens(Boro) Plaza 4/13 mins Woodside 15mins Marcy Ave 7/20 Mins Marcy Ave 7/15 What about 74th-Roosevelt-Jackson Heights ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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