Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Q43LTD]

Which is another thing... You would then have two routes running from fordham to riverdale - the only difference is each would serve opposite ends of riverdale....

 

The Bx9 is notorious for bunching, but bringing back the old Bx24 wouldn't help matters any.....

 

And yeah, it was cut due to low usage.... ridership was mainly elderly riders, you're right....

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Random thought... Lol.

- I'm surprised no one (AFAIK) ever brought up a Washington heights-Fordham route....

Interesting. Where in Washington Hts would you start it?

[B35 via Church]

Interesting. Where in Washington Hts would you start it?

Wasn't an actual suggestion; that would make 6 routes over the Washington bridge if that were to happen... Lol.

It would have to be routed to the point where it'd have enough ppl abandoning the whole Bx7 to Bx12 commute.....

I guess it could start over there with the Bx7 (speaking of which).....

 

It's something I have to think more about... I was just wondering out of all these idea threads over the years, I've never seen a route of sorts being suggested.... Quite sure there's demand for a 1 seat ride between the 2 points..... Maybe someone will come up with a bright idea of a possible routing now since I brought it up.....

[cotb16]

Interesting. Name a few big stops on kingsbridge rd. Wouldn't Bx9 be faster if it made fewer stops on fordham rd and southern blvd as those 2 roads have other bus lines that are frequent?

 

I wouldn't think so as the Southern Blvd stops are pretty trafficked (southbound for those heading to the and and northbound for those bound for Fordham, Kingsbridge and Riverdale).

 

For me, it would be better to create a Bx9 short-turn between Fordham Plaza and 225th St/Broadway since that's where most of the Bx9 usage is.

[checkmatechamp13]

Maybe it could somehow be combined with Threxx's Bx25 route, and just take the Washington Bridge-University Avenue-183rd, etc

[Threxx]

I had the Bx25 going across the Washington Bridge before, don't see how it would help anything...

[qjtransitmaster]

Which is another thing... You would then have two routes running from fordham to riverdale - the only difference is each would serve opposite ends of riverdale....

 

The Bx9 is notorious for bunching, but bringing back the old Bx24 wouldn't help matters any.....

 

And yeah, it was cut due to low usage.... ridership was mainly elderly riders, you're right....

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Random thought... Lol.

- I'm surprised no one (AFAIK) ever brought up a Washington heights-Fordham route....

why you think I had it as part of an extension of another route? Alone a route only in that area will FAIL but if it linked to multiple subways and lines it's ridership would be much better.

[B35 via Church]

why you think I had it as part of an extension of another route? Alone a route only in that area will FAIL but if it linked to multiple subways and lines it's ridership would be much better.

That's not a reason to screw with another route....

 

....don't see how it would help anything...

network coverage...

 

Maybe it could somehow be combined with Threxx's Bx25 route, and just take the Washington Bridge-University Avenue-183rd, etc

Well his route runs past (east of) fordham... I was thinking of something having fordham plz. as an endpoint.... In regards to his route, can't see how you could pull it off; although having buses serve river park towers before heading towards washington hgts does sound like a good idea by itself..... Currently, those ppl. just make their way to university & bombard 3's.....

 

^^ Unless we sever the 3 from manhattan & re-visit that whole ogden-university north-south route suggestion again

[cotb16]

Which is another thing... You would then have two routes running from fordham to riverdale - the only difference is each would serve opposite ends of riverdale....

 

The Bx9 is notorious for bunching, but bringing back the old Bx24 wouldn't help matters any.....

 

And yeah, it was cut due to low usage.... ridership was mainly elderly riders, you're right....

-----------------

 

 

Random thought... Lol.

- I'm surprised no one (AFAIK) ever brought up a Washington heights-Fordham route....

Actually, the old Bx24 now would do wonders, especially with Target and the stores now open (unlike back in 1995).

[B35 via Church]

Actually, the old Bx24 now would do wonders, especially with Target and the stores now open (unlike back in 1995).

Not with the current existence of the Bx9 it wouldn't.....

[aemoreira81]

Bx18 reroute proposal...currently the route only exists because of steep elevation differences in University Heights inaccessible to other services. However, this route requires a transfer (and sometimes two) from it to reach any significant business district. What I would propose is as follows, creating a Bx18A and a Bx18B

 

Bx18A - via Macombs Road, turn off onto Cromwell Avenue due south, right onto East 170 Street, left on Grant Highway, continue onto East 167 Street, right at River Avenue, and to the Bx13 terminus at the foot of River Avenue. Return via same route, except using Inwood instead of Cromwell.

 

Bx18B - weekdays only - via Macombs Road, left on Mount Eden Avenue, to Morris Avenue and end (to serve Bronx Lebanon Hospital). Return via same route.

 

I would think that significant new ridership would be garnered by expanding the footprint of services to Gateway Mall in the Bronx that the Bx13 cannot reach east of the Grant Highway (north of 169) and Ogden Avenue (south of 169) because of differences in elevation. There would be connections available from routes like the Bx3, Bx40, and Bx42 to Gateway Mall.

Edited February 26, 2013 by aemoreira81

[B35 via Church]

Bx18 reroute proposal...currently the route only exists because of steep elevation differences in University Heights inaccessible to other services. However, this route requires a transfer (and sometimes two) from it to reach any significant business district. What I would propose is as follows, creating a Bx18A and a Bx18B

 

Bx18A - via Macombs Road, turn off onto Cromwell Avenue due south, right onto East 170 Street, left on Grant Highway, continue onto East 167 Street, right at River Avenue, and to the Bx13 terminus at the foot of River Avenue. Return via same route, except using Inwood instead of Cromwell.

 

Bx18B - weekdays only - via Macombs Road, left on Mount Eden Avenue, to Morris Avenue and end (to serve Bronx Lebanon Hospital). Return via same route.

 

I would think that significant new ridership would be garnered by expanding the footprint of services to Gateway Mall in the Bronx that the Bx13 cannot reach east of the Grant Highway (north of 169) and Ogden Avenue (south of 169) because of differences in elevation. There would be connections available from routes like the Bx3, Bx40, and Bx42 to Gateway Mall.

 

....and no access to the up until you hit yankee stadium ("Bx18a)".

 

Your "Bx18b" wouldn't even serve the ; this is why the current Bx18 doesn't simply swing on over to Mt Eden , instead of dipping down to 170th the way it does.... Not too fond of the idea of extending 18's southward; I mean you wouldn't be serving much of anyone except yankee stadium goers on game days & mall goers (river b/w 167th & YS, not inclusive, is dead) - At the expense of current 18 riders that gotta rely on that route due to the difference in elevation.... The Bx18 is better off as simply being a subway feeder IMO.....

Edited February 26, 2013 by B35 via Church

[Q43LTD]

....and no access to the up until you hit yankee stadium ("Bx18a)".

 

Your "Bx18b" wouldn't even serve the ; this is why the current Bx18 doesn't simply swing on over to Mt Eden , instead of dipping down to 170th the way it does.... Not too fond of the idea of extending 18's southward; I mean you wouldn't be serving much of anyone except yankee stadium goers on game days & mall goers (river b/w 167th & YS, not inclusive, is dead) - At the expense of current 18 riders that gotta rely on that route due to the difference in elevation.... The Bx18 is better off as simply being a subway feeder IMO.....

What about extending it to Longwood to compliment the Bx11?

Edited February 26, 2013 by Q43LTD

[B35 via Church]

What about extending it to Longwood to compliment the Bx11?

The more & more I think about it, the more I wouldn't go about doing that either..... I thought about having addt'l EB Bx11 service start over there where the Bx36 short turns end (over along university), but the problem w/ that is, buses would have to continue down university/E.L. Grant to 170th.....

[cotb16]

Bx18 reroute proposal...currently the route only exists because of steep elevation differences in University Heights inaccessible to other services. However, this route requires a transfer (and sometimes two) from it to reach any significant business district. What I would propose is as follows, creating a Bx18A and a Bx18B

 

Bx18A - via Macombs Road, turn off onto Cromwell Avenue due south, right onto East 170 Street, left on Grant Highway, continue onto East 167 Street, right at River Avenue, and to the Bx13 terminus at the foot of River Avenue. Return via same route, except using Inwood instead of Cromwell.

 

Bx18B - weekdays only - via Macombs Road, left on Mount Eden Avenue, to Morris Avenue and end (to serve Bronx Lebanon Hospital). Return via same route.

 

I would think that significant new ridership would be garnered by expanding the footprint of services to Gateway Mall in the Bronx that the Bx13 cannot reach east of the Grant Highway (north of 169) and Ogden Avenue (south of 169) because of differences in elevation. There would be connections available from routes like the Bx3, Bx40, and Bx42 to Gateway Mall.

 

The only thing I would do to the Bx18 is send it to Gateway, but via Macombs, Jerome and River to provide the connection at 170th St.

 

For those worried about the , most Bx18 riders usually use the bus to reach the since the nearby Bx3 and Bx36 in Morris Heights connect to West Side lines such as the and .

[B35 via Church]

The only thing I would do to the Bx18 is send it to Gateway, but via Macombs, Jerome and River to provide the connection at 170th St.

 

For those worried about the , most Bx18 riders usually use the bus to reach the since the nearby Bx3 and Bx36 in Morris Heights connect to West Side lines such as the and .

...and they can continue taking the to get to gateway if need be.

 

You just can't ignore the connection to a subway line just to have it serve the mall.... Yeah the is utilized more because it's closer coming from the west... However, those waiting for 18's over there @ GC heading back west isn't exactly light either.....

[aemoreira81]

The only thing I would do to the Bx18 is send it to Gateway, but via Macombs, Jerome and River to provide the connection at 170th St.

 

For those worried about the , most Bx18 riders usually use the bus to reach the since the nearby Bx3 and Bx36 in Morris Heights connect to West Side lines such as the and .

 

I was thinking to send it down Jerome straight, but then decided against it in my post. I figured that the connection to the was not that important since that terminus is in a residential neighborhood and so is the entire line as it is today...and extending the Bx18 to Gateway would maintain a connection to the at 161 Street/Yankee Stadium. The thinking in my plan is that the Bx13's footprint is limited because of elevation differences.

 

 

 

 

(B35 via Church's quote) 

 

 

"...and they can continue taking the   to get to gateway if need be.

 

You just can't ignore the connection to a subway line just to have it serve the mall.... Yeah the   is utilized more because it's closer coming from the west... However, those waiting for 18's over there @ GC heading back west isn't exactly light either....."

 

 

The connection to the is maintained at 167 Street directly under my plan, or one could walk over 2 blocks (1 northbound) from 170 Street to get the . Customers who wait at 170 Street on the for the Bx18 could use 161 Street instead.

Edited February 26, 2013 by aemoreira81

[cotb16]

...and they can continue taking the to get to gateway if need be.

 

You just can't ignore the connection to a subway line just to have it serve the mall.... Yeah the is utilized more because it's closer coming from the west... However, those waiting for 18's over there @ GC heading back west isn't exactly light either.....

But it is light compared to the crowd at Jerome Avenue.

[B35 via Church]

The connection to the is maintained at 167 Street directly under my plan, or one could walk over 2 blocks (1 northbound) from 170 Street to get the . Customers who wait at 170 Street on the for the Bx18 could use 161 Street instead.

I understand you're maintaining a connection to the .... That quote wasn't directed at you anyway....

 

As far as those patrons taking the to 161st/yankee stadium to your Bx18a or w/e... Yeah, and that exacerbates their commute in the process....

 

But it is light compared to the crowd at Jerome Avenue.

Not disputing that.... However, that's still not a reason to take away that current access to the at 170th for Morris Hgts, etc. folks...

I mean, this is very similar to what you want to do w/ your Bx27 idea; taking away that current access to the over there around simpson st for Clason pt, soundview, etc. folks.....

 

Back to this 18 idea, I'm questioning any noticable increase in (would-be) ridership enough to justify sending buses down there..... You would have to rely on ppl. coming off other buses; the riderbase would be too limited to bother with this extension (from 170th to 149th isn't a hop, skip, and a jump away).... While it's good you want to provide access to the mall, you have to consider where the route is coming from, how people use that current route as it is, and how many other people can benefit from such an extension along the way, as well....

[aemoreira81]

For the Bx9, given that route's unreliability and frequency of bus bunching---might it be time to consider short-turning some trips? The heaviest ridership segment is in Fordham, Kingsbridge, and parts of Riverdale. As such, I would wonder why it is not proposed to short-turn some Bx9 trips at Fordham Road and Southern Boulevard during the day weekdays and Saturdays and introducing Limited-Stop service on the line on weekdays.

 

Service frequencies along Southern Boulevard and East 180 Street would be 10-12 minutes during the AM rush, every 15 minutes during the midday, and 12-15 minutes during the PM rush and shortly thereafter. From about 6 AM to 9 PM, there would be Bx9 Limited-Stop service operating along the route...as follows from West Farms:

 

All stops to Fordham Road and Crotona Avenue, then:

Fordham Metro-North Station

Kingsbridge Road and East 192 Street/Briggs Avenue, then:

All stops to Kingsbridge Road/University Avenue, then:

West 225 Street and Broadway

Broadway and West 231 Street

Broadway and West 238 Street

Broadway and West 242 Street

All stops to city line

 

During this time, local service would operate between Fordham and Riverdale.

 

On Saturdays, the short turns would occur during the late morning and early afternoon, without corresponding Limited-Stop service.

 

BTW, I had considered Fordham Plaza as a termination point, but I do not believe that it could handle another route, given that the Fordham Plaza loop now handles the Bx15, Bx17, and Bee-Line 60 and 61

 

Savings generated from not running some buses all the way to West Farms could then be used to increase frequencies along the busiest section of the route.

[qjtransitmaster]

For the Bx9, given that route's unreliability and frequency of bus bunching---might it be time to consider short-turning some trips? The heaviest ridership segment is in Fordham, Kingsbridge, and parts of Riverdale. As such, I would wonder why it is not proposed to short-turn some Bx9 trips at Fordham Road and Southern Boulevard during the day weekdays and Saturdays and introducing Limited-Stop service on the line on weekdays.

 

Service frequencies along Southern Boulevard and East 180 Street would be 10-12 minutes during the AM rush, every 15 minutes during the midday, and 12-15 minutes during the PM rush and shortly thereafter. From about 6 AM to 9 PM, there would be Bx9 Limited-Stop service operating along the route...as follows from West Farms:

 

All stops to Fordham Road and Crotona Avenue, then:

Fordham Metro-North Station

Kingsbridge Road and East 192 Street/Briggs Avenue, then:

All stops to Kingsbridge Road/University Avenue, then:

West 225 Street and Broadway

Broadway and West 231 Street

Broadway and West 238 Street

Broadway and West 242 Street

All stops to city line

 

During this time, local service would operate between Fordham and Riverdale.

 

On Saturdays, the short turns would occur during the late morning and early afternoon, without corresponding Limited-Stop service.

 

BTW, I had considered Fordham Plaza as a termination point, but I do not believe that it could handle another route, given that the Fordham Plaza loop now handles the Bx15, Bx17, and Bee-Line 60 and 61

 

Savings generated from not running some buses all the way to West Farms could then be used to increase frequencies along the busiest section of the route.

interesting.

[GreatOne2k]

MTA could just make the Bx9 all LTD on  E 180 St, Southern Blvd, E Fordham Rd, and E Kingsbridge Road and local after Jerome Ave

 

Local stops until

 

E 180 St & Boston Road

E 180 St & Crotona Parkway

Southern Blvd & E Fordham Road

E Fordham Road & 3 Av

E Kingsbridge Road & E 192 St*

E Kingsbridge Road & Grand Concourse

 

Then all local stops

 

 

*LTD stop only if S/B Bx22 (at least the Bedford Park buses) isn't rerouted from Valentine to Kingsbridge.

[B35 via Church]

For me, it would be better to create a Bx9 short-turn between Fordham Plaza and 225th St/Broadway since that's where most of the Bx9 usage is.

Ideally, yes, I agree....

Realistically, I'm not sure where you're gonna line up Bx9's/artics specifically around Fordham plz......

 

For the Bx9, given that route's unreliability and frequency of bus bunching---might it be time to consider short-turning some trips?

The heaviest ridership segment is in Fordham, Kingsbridge, and parts of Riverdale. As such, I would wonder why it is not proposed to short-turn some Bx9 trips at Fordham Road and Southern Boulevard during the day weekdays and Saturdays and introducing Limited-Stop service on the line on weekdays.

 

 

.....Savings generated from not running some buses all the way to West Farms could then be used to increase frequencies along the busiest section of the route.

I can agree w/ short turning some of 'em; not running every trip to W. Farms.... Don't agree w/ running LTD's on the route though....

Don't necessarily need both LTD's & short turns on the Bx9.....

[Threxx]

OK, I only have two proposals for the Bronx. One is obviously the Bx25 above, but I also wanted to reroute the Bx22 via Bronxdale Avenue for extra coverage. How well used is the Bx22 around the Unionport Oval? Maybe a branch system similar to the Bx4/Bx4A could be worked out.

[cotb16]

OK, I only have two proposals for the Bronx. One is obviously the Bx25 above, but I also wanted to reroute the Bx22 via Bronxdale Avenue for extra coverage. How well used is the Bx22 around the Unionport Oval? Maybe a branch system similar to the Bx4/Bx4A could be worked out.

The Bx22 is very well-used along Unionport Road that you could spend about 10 minutes traveling along the route within the Parkchester complex.

[Q43LTD]

How about extending the proposed the Bx46 to 145 St to compliment the Bx19? It will still serve the and also connect to the ?