Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Via Garibaldi 8]

.....Then you're not gonna get any additional ridership on the BxM4 out of Woodlawn itself, it's that simple.

The neighborhood of Woodlawn isn't that large....

 

Furthermore, I'm not understanding how you can tell QJT that the BxM4 doesn't compete w/ the MNRR, but ask if riders possibly switched to the MNRR....

 

I'm getting the impression that you think the BxM4 used to be this heavily utilized route out of Woodlawn...

If you are, it wasn't...... Would've been more 4b service over 4a service if that was the case back then.....

Not at all... The only reason I brought up the MNRR was because you said you've been seeing an increasing amount of riders taking MetroNorth and to go from 182,000 riders a year down to 118,000 riders annually those riders had to have gone somewhere.  The question is where?  If they switched to MetroNorth that doesn't automatically mean that it's the most convenient way for them.  I mean I actually tried a different mode to work today just to see what it was like that involved four freaking transfers and some walking and I wouldn't call that "competing with the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18"... I got in around the same time I always do only the transfers were practically seamless, but extremely cranky after having to switch from the local bus (yes first time trying it in Riverdale) to the  train, to another train and then to another train.

 

Having now used all of the available options to me in the neighborhood, I would still choose the express bus over having to take the Hudson Rail Link to the train, or making three transfers when I can just take one bus and walk to my office.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[NYCtrainfan01]

You aint kidding !

 

 

Not so much long in route length, but regarding the avg. trip time per rider... It lags due to the stint b/w riverdale/231st & the alone, let alone b/w riverdale/231st & tracey towers..... And the high volume of pax utilizing pretty much every stop (embarkers/disembarkers) along GC b/w like 161st & BPB only reinforces the point.... I say let riders take that 1 stop on the (4)/(5) from 125th to 138th for the Bx1 & be done w/ it (which is what's currently done in noticable enough numbers anyway)... I would not extend that route to Manhattan either, fam....

 

Exactly! The Bx1 and Bx2 does get heavy usage... Also lags in lots of sections...

 

That's what folks are doing... I've seen folks take the or to catch the Bx1 at 138th...

[qjtransitmaster]

Not at all... The only reason I brought up the MNRR was because you said you've been seeing an increasing amount of riders taking MetroNorth and to go from 182,000 riders a year down to 118,000 riders annually those riders had to have gone somewhere.  The question is where?  If they switched to MetroNorth that doesn't automatically mean that it's the most convenient way for them.  I mean I actually tried a different mode to work today just to see what it was like that involved four freaking transfers and some walking and I wouldn't call that "competing with the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18"... I got in around the same time I always do only the transfers were practically seamless, but extremely cranky after having to switch from the local bus (yes first time trying it in Riverdale) to the  train, to another train and then to another train.

 

Having now used all of the available options to me in the neighborhood, I would still choose the express bus over having to take the Hudson Rail Link to the train, or making three transfers when I can just take one bus and walk to my office.

wanna know why ridership dropped ppl got tired of the line and switched to a faster mode give up already some lines are just useless and better served by commuter rail than express bus get it through your head. This line makes BM4 look crowded and well utilized outside rush. There are several higher ridership lines that full-time service would be better spent on. Instead of wasting em on lines folks don't even use put them to lines with higher ridership that can squeeze out better ridership. Heck I think X30 with full time would be cheaper to operate than this BXM4 yet even at rush only it still has more ridership than the BXM4. Even X12/14. Dare I say it BM5 would be a better use of those buses or 24/7 or 3 am service for BXM7. This line is a dead horse let it go already. They will never come back to this line as long as MNRR serves that area frequently all day.

 

Not at all... The only reason I brought up the MNRR was because you said you've been seeing an increasing amount of riders taking MetroNorth and to go from 182,000 riders a year down to 118,000 riders annually those riders had to have gone somewhere.  The question is where?  If they switched to MetroNorth that doesn't automatically mean that it's the most convenient way for them.  I mean I actually tried a different mode to work today just to see what it was like that involved four freaking transfers and some walking and I wouldn't call that "competing with the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18"... I got in around the same time I always do only the transfers were practically seamless, but extremely cranky after having to switch from the local bus (yes first time trying it in Riverdale) to the  train, to another train and then to another train.

 

Having now used all of the available options to me in the neighborhood, I would still choose the express bus over having to take the Hudson Rail Link to the train, or making three transfers when I can just take one bus and walk to my office.

Dude you can't compare the BXM4 to the BXM1/2/18 unlike BXM4 those lines you live by aren't useless. You used the !! WTF why not Bx7 to marble hill for MNRR? Which is more direct than the hudson rail link and more trains serve marble hill anyway. Bx7 takes a more direct route too. The BXM1 is fast and doesn't compete with EASY to reach MNRR. Unlike the 4. Riverdale can't be compared to woodlawn. That is like comparing BM5 to X28 or QM15 to QM5 you can't do it

[Gorgor]

BxM4 Statistics (2011):

 

Link

 

Weekday ridership: 414

Weekend ridership: 240 (This is COMBINED saturday + sunday)

 

On the weekends, an average BxM4 bus has 3.5 passengers.

 

There are so many rush hour only express buses that have so much more ridership than the BxM4.

 

In terms of average riders per bus, the BxM4 ranks last for both weekdays and weekends.  Besides for Woodlawn, the rest of the route directly above the subway.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

BxM4 Statistics (2011):

 

Link

 

Weekday ridership: 414

Weekend ridership: 240 (This is COMBINED saturday + sunday)

 

On the weekends, an average BxM4 bus has 3.5 passengers.

 

There are so many rush hour only express buses that have so much more ridership than the BxM4.

 

In terms of average riders per bus, the BxM4 ranks last for both weekdays and weekends.  Besides for Woodlawn, the rest of the route directly above the subway.

This is going to be the never ending saga of you and QJ looking for an express bus or a local bus to b*tch and moan about.  Complained about the BM4 and they're cutting service to the bone.  There is almost next to nothing left outside of rush hour and I'm sure you'd want that cut too.  Now if things continue with the BxM4 the way it has been they will start cutting service there too.  You can't just axe the line though without a hearing so they will do what they've doing with lines that they want to cut back on... Start cutting runs each pick... In short, we get it... The route is expensive to run. 

 

Instead of b*tching about the cost all of the time, present a proposal to make service more effective for once.  

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You used the !! WTF why not Bx7 to marble hill for MNRR? Which is more direct than the hudson rail link and more trains serve marble hill anyway. Bx7 takes a more direct route too. The BXM1 is fast and doesn't compete with EASY to reach MNRR. Unlike the 4. Riverdale can't be compared to woodlawn. That is like comparing BM5 to X28 or QM15 to QM5 you can't do it

 

The whole point of me using the was to see what the ride was like... I already know about MNRR... The actual travel time was about what it would be using MNRR or the express bus in the morning, but the transfers were insane, not to mention that I've felt like crap ever since I got into the office today so my experiment was short lived.... I'm taking the express bus home tonight and am staying home tomorrow to rest.  I have no idea how people do that commute every day but it is not for me.

[Metro CSW]

The whole point of me using the was to see what the ride was like... I already know about MNRR... The actual travel time was about what it would be using MNRR or the express bus in the morning, but the transfers were insane, not to mention that I've felt like crap ever since I got into the office today so my experiment was short lived.... I'm taking the express bus home tonight and am staying home tomorrow to rest.  I have no idea how people do that commute every day but it is not for me.

I think Trevor can relate.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Metro CSW

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Tips on deciding the fate of an express bus

Please do not look at the stupid ridership only. Look at the number of runs, and ridership. Divide the stupid ridership with the runs, and done. People only look at the ridership, yet they don't look further. If ridership is lower than 10 passengers on a trip, than bye-bye

[qjtransitmaster]

The whole point of me using the was to see what the ride was like... I already know about MNRR... The actual travel time was about what it would be using MNRR or the express bus in the morning, but the transfers were insane, not to mention that I've felt like crap ever since I got into the office today so my experiment was short lived.... I'm taking the express bus home tonight and am staying home tomorrow to rest.  I have no idea how people do that commute every day but it is not for me.

Ok which commute is faster excluding spyuten duyvil. From riverdale ave to manhattan BXM1 or Bx7 timed with MNRR?

 

Lets say both BXM1 and Bx7 arrive at the same time. Let's also put in a rare what if say MNRR pass includes cost of metrocard. Which trip would be faster during rush hour and off-peak or weekends? Go.

 

I actually have a proposal to make services more efficient and introduce new lines as well to make outerborough travel faster as well while eliminating redundant lines that are barely used. BM4 is good to be left as it now.

 

But it's very unfair to riders of lines with more than 414 riders to have their services only at rush hour while buses like BXM4 get left unscathed. While BM4 deserved it's restructuring to keep bxm4 alive is an insult to riders of more well utilized routes. Why should one make their way to crowded X10s or 17s at off-peak hours and go all the way through downtown to get to midtown while the bus they can use which has way more than 414 weekday riders only runs at rush hr while a bus that is barely even used runs all -day usually empty when those resources can be put to decreasing travel times for people that actually would use the bus cmon man. You aren't even reasonable but you will see soon enough. While forest ave people are subjected to slow ass S48s and the ferry and subway there are useless lines running more than half it's runs empty going subsidized by the city to boot. That is not fair. X30 would be helpful if it ran more but knowing the MTA it's only a matter of time. HEHE I will show you very soon. But lets stop talking about this bus NOW!!!

 

 

ok BX proposal one by one soon.

 

Tips on deciding the fate of an express bus

Please do not look at the stupid ridership only. Look at the number of runs, and ridership. Divide the stupid ridership with the runs, and done. People only look at the ridership, yet they don't look further. If ridership is lower than 10 passengers on a trip, than bye-bye

You get on the BXM4 and you will know the true meaning of useless. At least you have a bus practically to yourself hehe. Enjoy $5.50 limo ride LOL. ask B35 as he knows a bit more about that line.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Ok which commute is faster excluding spyuten duyvil. From riverdale ave to manhattan BXM1 or Bx7 timed with MNRR?

 

Lets say both BXM1 and Bx7 arrive at the same time. Let's also put in a rare what if say MNRR pass includes cost of metrocard. Which trip would be faster during rush hour and off-peak or weekends? Go.

 

I actually have a proposal to make services more efficient and introduce new lines as well to make outerborough travel faster as well while eliminating redundant lines that are barely used. BM4 is good to be left as it now.

 

But it's very unfair to riders of lines with more than 414 riders to have their services only at rush hour while buses like BXM4 get left unscathed. While BM4 deserved it's restructuring to keep bxm4 alive is an insult to riders of more well utilized routes. Why should one make their way to crowded X10s or 17s at off-peak hours and go all the way through downtown to get to midtown while the bus they can use which has way more than 414 weekday riders only runs at rush hr while a bus that is barely even used runs all -day usually empty when those resources can be put to decreasing travel times for people that actually would use the bus cmon man. You aren't even reasonable but you will see soon enough. While forest ave people are subjected to slow ass S48s and the ferry and subway there are useless lines running more than half it's runs empty going subsidized by the city to boot. That is not fair. X30 would be helpful if it ran more but knowing the MTA it's only a matter of time. HEHE I will show you very soon. But lets stop talking about this bus NOW!!!

 

 

ok BX proposal one by one soon.

 

 

You get on the BXM4 and you will know the true meaning of useless. At least you have a bus practically to yourself hehe. Enjoy $5.50 limo ride LOL. ask B35 as he knows a bit more about that line.

Yeah I preferred the X25, another limo, best limo ride ever.

[qjtransitmaster]

Yeah I preferred the X25, another limo, best limo ride ever.

BXM4 is a full-time version with a wee bit more riders LoL

[Culver]

OK, so on the BxM4. How about this route:

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004d4f36b9a665556228&msa=0

So it takes the BxM3's Segwick portion, and the BxM3 (which is already long) sticks to Broadway in The Bronx and Yonkers at all times.

The rest of the route is Woodlawn and East Yonkers to Yonkers Avenue. Any idea if this would attract ridership?

 

I thought of maybe having it go Segwick->Moshulu(for like 300 feet...)->Gun Hill Road->Bainbridge->Jermoe->Rest of Woodlawn/East Yonkers route. I would be open to that modification.

 

EDIT: Of course this is a bottom-of-the-page post that'll get forgotten. FAIL.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Culver

[qjtransitmaster]

OK, so on the BxM4. How about this route:

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004d4f36b9a665556228&msa=0

So it takes the BxM3's Segwick portion, and the BxM3 (which is already long) sticks to Broadway in The Bronx and Yonkers at all times.

The rest of the route is Woodlawn and East Yonkers to Yonkers Avenue. Any idea if this would attract ridership?

 

I thought of maybe having it go Segwick->Moshulu(for like 300 feet...)->Gun Hill Road->Bainbridge->Jermoe->Rest of Woodlawn/East Yonkers route. I would be open to that modification.

 

EDIT: Of course this is a bottom-of-the-page post that'll get forgotten. FAIL.

That was my idea earlier for rush hour only where select BXM3 short turns are extended via woodlawn but open door for people to reach the hospitals along segwick. Off-peak service would be decimated completely as the MNRR is a faster and superior option as proven by the increasing ridership to the point where MTA added service to the point where frequencies are borderline subway or at least similar to SIR headways. It is a good idea but BXM3 off-peak has too much use on broadway so would have to be left alone at those times. BXM4 off peak use doesn't justify it's existence. When it's ridership dropped it never recovered as people got fed up with it being slow. One weakness of this plan is the traffic on I-87 or harlem river would slow the line to a crawl thus people would once again use metro-north. I think we need to stop talking about this line cause to be honest it's presence is a symbol of waste. If all express buses were treated by ridership it would have been axed long time ago. Sorry but this is the best that can be done. Cause it's cheaper than DHs even though I doubt people will tolerate the deegan from woodlawn. Even if it's good it's still slower than MNRR. But it may draw ridership from being open-door semi it will have Bxm3 designation Bxm3W rush hour variant. It's impossible for an express bus to compete with frequent MNRR service unless getting to those stations is time-consuming like in riverdale. The travel path is quicker for bxm1 than hudson rail link. In woodlawn time via that routing is more than the time to MNRR station if timed well forget it the speed alone will leave the other modes in the dust. Other BXM lines have little to no faster alternatives except BXM6 but BXM6 has potential via modification of manhattan route that the 4 doesn't have.

 

Actually: forget open-door.

Edited February 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[qjtransitmaster]

Bx16 to morris heights via I-87 reroute then exit 10 to reach marble hill via broadway linking to the then via james peters medical center towards tremont then university then loops at 176th and montgomery to absorb Bx18's southern part but Bx40 will extend after becoming full time LTD. Woodlawn to or use Bx34 Bx16 will now link to the and become a true crosstown sort of. Northbound via segwick but then makes same loop on montgomery then back. Or you can say F it and can the Bx18 outright via merger and have Bx40 cover undercliff and segwick portion while macombs portion is absorbed into Bx16.  

 

 

Please I beg you no more BXM4 discussion dead horse is a dead horse.

Edited February 5, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[B35 via Church]

Not at all... The only reason I brought up the MNRR was because you said you've been seeing an increasing amount of riders taking MetroNorth and to go from 182,000 riders a year down to 118,000 riders annually those riders had to have gone somewhere.  The question is where?  If they switched to MetroNorth that doesn't automatically mean that it's the most convenient way for them.  I mean I actually tried a different mode to work today just to see what it was like that involved four freaking transfers and some walking and I wouldn't call that "competing with the BxM1, BxM2 or BxM18"... I got in around the same time I always do only the transfers were practically seamless, but extremely cranky after having to switch from the local bus (yes first time trying it in Riverdale) to the  train, to another train and then to another train.

 

Having now used all of the available options to me in the neighborhood, I would still choose the express bus over having to take the Hudson Rail Link to the train, or making three transfers when I can just take one bus and walk to my office.

Yes, I have noticed increased usage at MNRR Woodlawn - But who's to say that the bulk of that increase is comprised of Woodlawn residents themselves though? It's unfair to try to paint the picture that the loss of 71k riders on the BxM4 yearly were mostly woodlawn riders...... I understand your point regarding where those riders went, but you have to consider those numbers are for the entire BxM4, not just a loss for a specific sect of riders along the BxM4.....

 

as for the whole competition thing.... well if you're suggesting that (as many) riders possibly abandoned the BxM4 for the MNRR, you wouldn't say that's competition enough? This is why I don't like to use stats when talking about these things; it's an easy way to pigeonhole yourself.....

 

Exactly! The Bx1 and Bx2 does get heavy usage... Also lags in lots of sections...

 

That's what folks are doing... I've seen folks take the or to catch the Bx1 at 138th...

I have seen crowds over there at 138th/GC waiting for the bus on numerous occasions.... Judging it's locale, you wouldn't think as many ppl. would wait over there.... I have also noticed a line of ppl. in the morning alongside that bldg. that's over there by that Bx1 bus stop (they kinda looked like homeless ppl.).... My first time catching the Bx1 there, I was like holy shit, all these ppl. are waiting for the bus? I'd say there were about 75-100 there....

 

Lol.... that particular day/trip though, myself along w/ about 15-20 ppl. or so boarded....

 

wanna know why ridership dropped ppl got tired of the line and switched to a faster mode give up already some lines are just useless and better served by commuter rail than express bus get it through your head. This line makes BM4 look crowded and well utilized outside rush. There are several higher ridership lines that full-time service would be better spent on. Instead of wasting em on lines folks don't even use put them to lines with higher ridership that can squeeze out better ridership......

 

 

Dude you can't compare the BXM4 to the BXM1/2/18 unlike BXM4 those lines you live by aren't useless. You used the !! WTF why not Bx7 to marble hill for MNRR? Which is more direct than the hudson rail link and more trains serve marble hill anyway. Bx7 takes a more direct route too. The BXM1 is fast and doesn't compete with EASY to reach MNRR. Unlike the 4. Riverdale can't be compared to woodlawn. That is like comparing BM5 to X28 or QM15 to QM5 you can't do it

- I wouldn't be so quick to say that they got tired of the line.... While I don't know exactly how many (and what modes; which includes the personal vehicle) & for what reasons however many woodlawn residents abandoned the BxM4 for... But to suggest that they up & got tired of it & started taking MNRR en masse, is not considering  other options those folks might have considered.....

 

- Yeah, I said the same thing to myself about a comparison of sorts; the Riverdale expresses are heavily used (again, for express bus standards) by Riverdalians, compared to Woodlawn-ers (lol) & the BxM4...

 

- As for him not taking Bx7 to MNRR... He says he's taken the MNRR on this forum a couple times already....

 

Maybe because it wasn't about comparing the Bx7 to Hudson rail link perhaps?

(which is really all you're doing in asking that)....

[B35 via Church]

Instead of b*tching about the cost all of the time, present a proposal to make service more effective for once.  

Agreed.....

 

Tips on deciding the fate of an express bus

Please do not look at the stupid ridership only. Look at the number of runs, and ridership. Divide the stupid ridership with the runs, and done. People only look at the ridership, yet they don't look further. If ridership is lower than 10 passengers on a trip, than bye-bye

Contradictory.

 

You convey that ppl. not look at the "stupid" ridership, but if ridership is lower than 10 pax/trip, then au revoir.... Lol...

The only difference b/w how Gorgor's making the point & how you're making the point is the metric that's being used (daily total usage vs per trip usage)....

 

OK, so on the BxM4. How about this route:

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202807188220210378870.0004d4f36b9a665556228&msa=0

 

So it takes the BxM3's Segwick portion, and the BxM3 (which is already long) sticks to Broadway in The Bronx and Yonkers at all times.

The rest of the route is Woodlawn and East Yonkers to Yonkers Avenue. Any idea if this would attract ridership?

 

I thought of maybe having it go Segwick->Moshulu(for like 300 feet...)->Gun Hill Road->Bainbridge->Jermoe->Rest of Woodlawn/East Yonkers route. I would be open to that modification.

Yep, The Sedgwick thing came to mind too when I was reading the whole MNRR/Express bus debate VG8 & QJT had in here earlier.... I didn't pose that as an actual suggestion because I concluded that if BxM4's were to be diverted off GC onto Sedgwick, that would give the MTA reason to trim service on the BxM3... Saying that another way, the suggestion would boost usage on the BxM4 at the expense of the BxM3..... Would likely set up split service all over again; "a's" to yonkers - getty sq. via riverdale [broadway] & "b's" to yonkers raceway via woodlawn (the neighborhood)...

 

There's not much of a point to ending buses on Yonkers av. itself though (maybe you'll get some riders from around kimball, but that's it.... Can't see anyone coming off BL-7's wanting to take an express bus into Manhattan).... The notion behind sending buses to the raceway/casino is - If you can get as much casino-goers to shell out $5.50 (MTA express bus fare) over $7.50 (bxm4c), and on top of that, a new-found riderbase that'd use the parking lot inside the casino as a park & ride for extended Bxm4's to the raceway/casino, then it would make a little more sense to extend the route there.... Simply stopping buses dead at Yonkers av wouldn't accomplish either of the 2 cases, and your hopes for increased ridership would probably be minimal at best..... JMO/IMO anyway....

 

Bx16 to morris heights via I-87 reroute then exit 10 to reach marble hill via broadway linking to the then via james peters medical center towards tremont then university then loops at 176th and montgomery to absorb Bx18's southern part but Bx40 will extend after becoming full time LTD.

 

Woodlawn to or use Bx34 Bx16 will now link to the and become a true crosstown sort of. Northbound via segwick but then makes same loop on montgomery then back. Or you can say F it and can the Bx18 outright via merger and have Bx40 cover undercliff and segwick portion while macombs portion is absorbed into Bx16. 

This is exactly what I'm talking about with you with the wanting to put local buses on highways.... 

Bx16 on the deegan? You're being ridiculous here with this & not realistic at all...

Who's trying to get to Marble hill, University heights, and Morris heights like that from Eastchester, Edenwald, Wakefield, and Woodlawn ?

 

See, now I know you're solely basing ideas just by going off a map when you sit there & spell out "james peters medical center"... People up there refer to it as the "VA medical center" (just like they do the one in brooklyn) or the "Bronx VA medical center"....

 

What you'd be doing by f***ing up the Bx16 like that is forcing more ppl. in the northern section of the bronx onto the Dyre av line or the White plains road line, pissing them off in the process.... Headways on the Bx34 aren't any better than that on the Bx16 (which aren't all too great itself), so this idea of having those folks xfer to Bx34's towards the concourse line or the jerome av line simply won't fly - because you want to eliminate redundancy b/w the Bx16 & the Bx34 by having Bx16's connect NE bronx to the western part of the bronx....

Edited February 5, 2013 by B35 via Church

[checkmatechamp13]

Bx16 to morris heights via I-87 reroute then exit 10 to reach marble hill via broadway linking to the then via james peters medical center towards tremont then university then loops at 176th and montgomery to absorb Bx18's southern part but Bx40 will extend after becoming full time LTD. Woodlawn to or use Bx34 Bx16 will now link to the and become a true crosstown sort of. Northbound via segwick but then makes same loop on montgomery then back. Or you can say F it and can the Bx18 outright via merger and have Bx40 cover undercliff and segwick portion while macombs portion is absorbed into Bx16.  

 

You do realize that there are a lot of people who take the Bx16 from the NW Bronx (Wakefield, Edenwald, etc) to the train to avoid all the local stops on the , right?

[Guest Charles]

You do realize that there are a lot of people who take the Bx16 from the NW Bronx (Wakefield, Edenwald, etc) to the train to avoid all the local stops on the , right?

He probably doesn't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Ok which commute is faster excluding spyuten duyvil. From riverdale ave to manhattan BXM1 or Bx7 timed with MNRR?

 

Lets say both BXM1 and Bx7 arrive at the same time. Let's also put in a rare what if say MNRR pass includes cost of metrocard. Which trip would be faster during rush hour and off-peak or weekends? Go.

lol... First off I would not use the Bx7 because it is unreliable.  Hudson Rail Link is just a shuttle to and from the MNRR so it is timed to meet the train, where as the Bx7 comes when it wants, but let's say I get the Bx7 at 246th street and Henry Hudson Parkway and the BxM1 Super Express (skipping Spuyten Duyvil).  If the person is going to 57th street and 3rd Avenue, once the trip is 50 minutes tops or even much less with no traffic.  The same person would need about 15 minutes on the Bx7 to MNRR and then 22 minutes roughly on MNRR, PLUS time to get up to 57th street which could be 20 minutes depending on waiting for the next connection and traffic, so unless you are going directly to Grand Central, MNRR is not at all faster... Even going to MNRR it is only faster if you live right by the MNRR stations.  This is why I say that BxM4 is not necessarily faster than MNRR not unless that person doesn't have additional connections and/or works near Grand Central.

[Gorgor]

So you're justifying keeping a route because it's faster than the alternative.  That would be great argument if people actually rode that bus.

 

The X29 and X90, two rush hour only buses that were faster than their alternative subway lines, had better weekday ridership levels than the BxM4 yet they got cut. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

So you're justifying keeping a route because it's faster than the alternative.  That would be great argument if people actually rode that bus.

 

The X29 and X90, two rush hour only buses that were faster than their alternative subway lines, had better weekday ridership levels than the BxM4 yet they got cut. 

Uh no I'm not... The two have nothing to do with each other... I think I've already stated that the route should be restructured and I also would not have cut the X29 or X90.  I don't believe in cutting services and solely looking at stats for ANY service.  Bus routes (local and express) should be studied to see how they can be more marketable and used better.  They should only be cut as a last resort. Same thing with subway lines.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Grand Concourse]

Well with subway lines, there's only so much you can do because you either 'run it or you don't' because there's no where else to send them. for buses, you can alter them. Cuts/mergers are sometimes necessary. Ideally with buses, they should be better than just 40-50% full all times (exception for when it is close the the terminals when then it generally empties out). It isn't fair for the other lines that are crush loaded if they can't get the extra service because a low use line is running practically empty.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well with subway lines, there's only so much you can do because you either 'run it or you don't' because there's no where else to send them. for buses, you can alter them. Cuts/mergers are sometimes necessary. Ideally with buses, they should be better than just 40-50% full all times (exception for when it is close the the terminals when then it generally empties out). It isn't fair for the other lines that are crush loaded if they can't get the extra service because a low use line is running practically empty.

I agree but it also isn't fair not serve areas that need service just because the buses aren't crush loaded.  You have to remember that people are more dependent on public transportation here than in other areas even in the areas where service isn't heavily used.  This is why I don't support just cutting service during times when service isn't heavily used OR when a line starts losing ridership.  Try to tweak the line and make it more usable.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Grand Concourse]

But when I said to 'tweak' the headways to try and get the crowds split up (fewer runs, but get the buses more full), you kept saying it would just alienate the riders. So if people don't want that, then perhaps there's nothing you can do to justify the line.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But when I said to 'tweak' the headways to try and get the crowds split up (fewer runs, but get the buses more full), you kept saying it would just alienate the riders. So if people don't want that, then perhaps there's nothing you can do to justify the line.

In some cases the waits are long enough.  What you don't realize is that the has basically cut most routes to the bone.  There aren't many routes with any real fat to trim and also not too many more routes that you can cut outright.  Bus ridership is DOWN across the city (local and express) and has been for years now so you want to keep cutting and you will just further alienate people from using buses.  Now I'm not saying to have buses running all over the place just because but this notion that there are so many routes just running around is just not true least we forget how many routes have been eliminated already.  And routes that people keep complaining about needing to be cut back the IS cutting back.  You can't just eliminate a service outright so service is  being cut gradually.  Remember the idea isn't to CUT service in the first place.  It's to encourage ridership.  You guys seem to be on this notion of super routes and cut everything else which is ridiculous, which under that notion would mean cutting your B41 variant since it doesn't see that much ridership.

 

These lines and routes that are cut are GONE once they are cut in most cases.  I don't know if that doesn't sink in or what but it means that in many cases people can't get around.  Now I know some a-hole is going to run in here and bring up more nonsense about an express bus like the BxM4 or the BM4 but yet again I will point out that those routes have seen cuts as well and continue to see cuts each pick.  The BM4 lost I believe two more runs for the new schedule.  Outside of rush hour service, there isn't much left to cut on that line and they CANNOT eliminate routes outright without a hearing and that should not be the goal anyway.

 

You have local buses running on 30 minute headways that people NEED... I mean if you're going to cut back more they'll be every hour.  No one is going to wait that long for a local bus. There are some routes that simply won't get tons of riders but that doesn't mean that they should be eliminated.  It's a very selfish way of thinking IMO.  They don't serve the masses so screw the people that do need it.  That's exactly the sort of thinking that the is using too.  Consolidation may look good on paper but it discourages people from using service.  I know first hand from the cuts that have been made across the city. No service... People just avoid certain places if they don't have a car and that is not good for our economy nor the overall good of the city. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8