Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Grand Concourse]

The bergen beach B41s in the morning are packed. As for other times it's a decent handful. Weekends, namely Sundays, it's practically non existent. So They adjust the line accordingly.* On saturday, I saw 2 consecutive B9s turning back on av L and FB (not sure if this was a typical thing although I do know they do turn back B9s there).

 

*It's there to serve as a way to divide the B41 to KP as even KP doesn't need that much service. To me I have to walk to FB anyway.

 

And yes, it does sound selfish, but at some point you can't keep running a service that continues to serve under 40% on a consistent basis (of course there are exceptions like rush hour bumps, so it depends). People either ride it or they don't.

But I guess given the way people treat the lf buses as if they were a '30ft' bus, I guess those lines should be running only that type of bus and they keep the hf buses for routes that needs buses for higher demand lines.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Grand Concourse

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The bergen beach B41s in the morning are packed. As for other times it's a decent handful. Weekends, namely Sundays, it's practically non existent. So They adjust the line accordingly.* On saturday, I saw 2 consecutive B9s turning back on av L and FB (not sure if this was a typical thing although I do know they do turn back B9s there).

 

*It's there to serve as a way to divide the B41 to KP as even KP doesn't need that much service. To me I have to walk to FB anyway.

 

And yes, it does sound selfish, but at some point you can't keep running a service that continues to serve under 40% on a consistent basis (of course there are exceptions like rush hour bumps, so it depends). People either ride it or they don't.

But I guess given the way people treat the lf buses as if they were a '30ft' bus, I guess those lines should be running only that type of bus and they keep the hf buses for routes that needs buses for higher demand lines.

Yeah well a decent handful certainly isn't packed so maybe they should cut those runs since they aren't that packed... Would you prefer that?  I'm asking because like I said there isn't too much to cut. There's only a few lines left (and I do mean a few) where service could be cut otherwise you start slashing into the meat of the service.  I do follow the schedules and I can confirm for you that they are squeezing the most out of most the service they are providing.

 

The B41s aren't getting tons of service either... Maybe they could short turn more of them from Kings Plaza, but that's about it.  

Edited February 6, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

There's always going to be plenty of buses running around that are far from "packed", even on the heaviest routes in the city. If being "packed" were to be the sole criteria for determining whether a bus should run or not, we'd have to make some major cuts. I've seen plenty of buses throughout the city that just have a handful of passengers, and plenty more that had a seated load, which is definitely far from "packed". And this applies to all lines, including ones like the B46, B35, M15, etc.

 

We'd basically have to double the headways on each line, and probably eliminate a bunch of lines on the weekends, off-peak, etc. The cuts would've been much worse in 2010, if the MTA used that criteria.

[GreatOne2k]

So you're justifying keeping a route because it's faster than the alternative.  That would be great argument if people actually rode that bus.

 

The X29 and X90, two rush hour only buses that were faster than their alternative subway lines, had better weekday ridership levels than the BxM4 yet they got cut. 

 

X90 was more costly to the MTA to run than the BxM4. MTA Bus gets 100% reimbursement for any losses.

[qjtransitmaster]

X90 was more costly to the MTA to run than the BxM4. MTA Bus gets 100% reimbursement for any losses.

which is a waste of city money it isn't fair to higher ridership routes that need the service. Heck it isn't fair that LIRR and MNRR users have to still pay $100 extra to use the subway and city bus on their monthlies. Why can't they get free transfers to lesser systems like the bus and subway like they do in other cities. Most other cities except DC and a few cross honor commuter rail passes on their bus networks at no extra charge I don't see why NYC can't do the same heck I would go as far to say that is a better use of city money than MTA bus reimbursement especially for some lines that people don't even use. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[Culver]

which is a waste of city money it isn't fair to higher ridership routes that need the service. Heck it isn't fair that LIRR and MNRR users have to still pay $100 extra to use the subway and city bus on their monthlies. Why can't they get free transfers to lesser systems like the bus and subway like they do in other cities. Most other cities except DC and a few cross honor commuter rail passes on their bus networks at no extra charge I don't see why NYC can't do the same heck I would go as far to say that is a better use of city money than MTA bus reimbursement especially for some lines that people don't even use. 

How about the city keep its money on city-specific services? NYC ends up subsidizing the LIRR and MNRR for suburbanites enough as it is, and they're brazen about demanding that we subsidize them even more (see: demanding only NYC pay MTA payroll tax). With all due respect, you present an awful idea that would benefit shameless, greedy, entitled people.

[Grand Concourse]

I'd be all in favor of the MTA being split into separate divisions. Let the city manage the subway and buses; Nassau and Suffolk the LIRR with the city overseeing the city portion; MNCR for Westchester and further upstate. Why let Albany decide what we should get?

[Culver]

I'd be all in favor of the MTA being split into separate divisions. Let the city manage the subway and buses; Nassau and Suffolk the LIRR with the city overseeing the city portion; MNCR for Westchester and further upstate. Why let Albany decide what we should get?

As bad as LIRR can be, Nassau County would run it into the ground completely.

[Grand Concourse]

Ok, leave the LiRR to the state then.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How about the city keep its money on city-specific services? NYC ends up subsidizing the LIRR and MNRR for suburbanites enough as it is, and they're brazen about demanding that we subsidize them even more (see: demanding only NYC pay MTA payroll tax). With all due respect, you present an awful idea that would benefit shameless, greedy, entitled people.

And this is exactly why I don't support extending city buses into Westchester.... The more we give them, the more they'll take on our dime....

Edited February 6, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[qjtransitmaster]

And this is exactly why I don't support extending city buses into Westchester.... The more we give them, the more they'll take on our dime....

cause one they have the bee-line anyway

[Via Garibaldi 8]

cause one they have the bee-line anyway

Which they don't want to fund apparently...

[qjtransitmaster]

How about the city keep its money on city-specific services? NYC ends up subsidizing the LIRR and MNRR for suburbanites enough as it is, and they're brazen about demanding that we subsidize them even more (see: demanding only NYC pay MTA payroll tax). With all due respect, you present an awful idea that would benefit shameless, greedy, entitled people.

you have a point sort of but still other cities cross-honor commuter rail passes on their buses and subways(if they have them) So why should NYC not follow suit?

 

Which they don't want to fund apparently...

err use those buses buddy they are well used. Just not in the north as service like you would say is shit and (shit service= low ridership). So no surprise there BL19 even duplicates MNRR for a portion but does so with awful service that is outright laughable.

[checkmatechamp13]

Which they don't want to fund apparently...

 

Who said that? This isn't Nassau County. Bee Line actually funds their system pretty well.

 

And this is exactly why I don't support extending city buses into Westchester.... The more we give them, the more they'll take on our dime....

 

You do realize the BL-60/61/62 all run into The Bronx and have open-door service, right? That allows the MTA to run less service on the Bx30.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

 

You do realize the BL-60/61/62 all run into The Bronx and have open-door service, right? That allows the MTA to run less service on the Bx30.

Which is outright wrong Bx30 should be way more frequent I don't know why beeline is allowed to get away with that shit it steals money from the MTA. It MTA did something similar in westchester they'd be pissed.

[B35 via Church]

Which is outright wrong Bx30 should be way more frequent I don't know why beeline is allowed to get away with that shit it steals money from the MTA.

If MTA did something similar in westchester they'd be pissed.

Agreed.... Which is why (if push came to shove, that is) I can see bee line extending BL-8's to 231st subway before I can see Bx7's or Bx10's getting extended to Ludlow or Getty Sq....

 

Who said that? This isn't Nassau County. Bee Line actually funds their system pretty well..

Yeah, I'm not sure where/why he's getting the inkling that's the case either....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Yeah, I'm not sure where/why he's getting the inkling that's the case either....

 Well explain to me how they can cut the BxM4C when it supposedly performs well... They only have one measley express bus route and they can't even service it without dumping their responsibility onto the city.  Seems pretty cheap to me. In short I say they can keep their damn service in Westchester and service their routes and we'll service our routes.  And if I sound like I'm annoyed I am because the LIRR and MNRR are subsidized esp. with city dollars when it isn't used by us nearly as much as Westchester residents and Long Islanders.

 

Our service should run to the city border and no further so that we can improve our service here in the city.  The only exception I would make would perhaps be with the BxM4 only because it is performing so poorly.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Culver]

 Well explain to me how they can cut the BxM4C when it supposedly performs well... They only have one measley express bus route and they can't even service it without dumping their responsibility onto the city.  Seems pretty cheap to me. In short I say they can keep their damn service in Westchester and service their routes and we'll service our routes.  And if I sound like I'm annoyed I am because the LIRR and MNRR are subsidized esp. with city dollars when it isn't used by us nearly as much as Westchester residents and Long Islanders.

 

Our service should run to the city border and no further so that we can improve our service here in the city.  The only exception I would make would perhaps be with the BxM4 only because it is performing so poorly.

I'm actually not against the MTA doing services like the BxM3 or the alternate BxM4 routing proposed here where it goes to Yonkers Raceway because of the BL buses that go down Boston Road with open-door service. It more or less cancels out considering the service levels. I'd love for MTA Bus to take on the BxM4C route (and rename it BxM5 for less confusion) because of it being profitable. That p-word is the key; though since it's a Westchester DOT route, Westchester would also have to pay MTA Bus NYCDOT-style to run it.

 

Having two or three part-time buses run a bit into Westchester is not the same as outright subsidizing Metro-North or LIRR, so I approve of it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm actually not against the MTA doing services like the BxM3 or the alternate BxM4 routing proposed here where it goes to Yonkers Raceway because of the BL buses that go down Boston Road with open-door service. It more or less cancels out considering the service levels. I'd love for MTA Bus to take on the BxM4C route (and rename it BxM5 for less confusion) because of it being profitable. That p-word is the key; though since it's a Westchester DOT route, Westchester would also have to pay MTA Bus NYCDOT-style to run it.

 

Having two or three part-time buses run a bit into Westchester is not the same as outright subsidizing Metro-North or LIRR, so I approve of it.

Well yes I would agree with that and only if Westchester ponied up their fair share of the dough.  However, it would still be pick up only going from Manhattan and drop-off only in the Bronx to Yonkers Raceway and vice versa returning to the city, otherwise the route becomes unattractive and isn't fast for what would be charged.  Premium fares is supposed to mean premium service, otherwise it would just be a local limited stop bus. 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Culver]

Well yes I would agree with that and only if Westchester ponied up their fair share of the dough.  However, it would still be pick up only going from Manhattan and drop-off only in the Bronx to Yonkers Raceway and vice versa returning to the city, otherwise the route becomes unattractive and isn't fast for what would be charged.  Premium fares is supposed to mean premium service, otherwise it would just be a local limited stop bus. 

That we can definitely agree on.

[B35 via Church]

 Well explain to me how they can cut the BxM4C when it supposedly performs well... They only have one measley express bus route and they can't even service it without dumping their responsibility onto the city.  Seems pretty cheap to me. In short I say they can keep their damn service in Westchester and service their routes and we'll service our routes.  And if I sound like I'm annoyed I am because the LIRR and MNRR are subsidized esp. with city dollars when it isn't used by us nearly as much as Westchester residents and Long Islanders.

 

Our service should run to the city border and no further so that we can improve our service here in the city.  The only exception I would make would perhaps be with the BxM4 only because it is performing so poorly.

 

Performs well to who, is the question (regarding the Bxm4c).... Regardless, Westchester county aren't these cheap asses that don't want to pay for service & basically turn a blind-eye to public transportation, system-wide.... At least, I don't see it.... To me, that's what's being suggested when you say westchester apparently doesn't want to fund bee line....

 

As far as the Westchester/Bee-Line bashing, I'm not interested & won't indulge in any of that b/c I don't think it's warranted...

I think they do pretty good with what they have, for the # of ppl. that even use buses out there.....

 

As far as our bus services only running to city borders (of the ones that are near them) & not crossing county lines, I'm not advocating otherwise.... I'm not the one approving/siding with [sending the Bx7 or the Bx10 to Ludlow (or getty sq)] or [Q12's to LIRR Great neck].... I mean you have your exceptions here & there of actual MTA services/routes that do cross county lines or w/e, but for the most part, being kept "in-house" is done w/ our routes anyway.....

Edited February 7, 2013 by B35 via Church

[qjtransitmaster]

 Well explain to me how they can cut the BxM4C when it supposedly performs well... They only have one measley express bus route and they can't even service it without dumping their responsibility onto the city.  Seems pretty cheap to me. In short I say they can keep their damn service in Westchester and service their routes and we'll service our routes.  And if I sound like I'm annoyed I am because the LIRR and MNRR are subsidized esp. with city dollars when it isn't used by us nearly as much as Westchester residents and Long Islanders.

 

Our service should run to the city border and no further so that we can improve our service here in the city.  The only exception I would make would perhaps be with the BxM4 only because it is performing so poorly.

Err you do realize that city residents actually use MNRR to reverse commute? more than those coming to the city thus rendering your argument null and void. They pay state taxes to fund it especially CT residents and unlike some MTA bus lines they use their services extensively and frequently. In addition they pay way more taxes than we do to the MTA and in general.

Edited February 7, 2013 by qjtransitmaster

[GreatOne2k]

Which is outright wrong Bx30 should be way more frequent I don't know why beeline is allowed to get away with that shit it steals money from the MTA. It MTA did something similar in westchester they'd be pissed.

 Not really, according to this Bee Line liked a Bx34 extension to Mt Vernon, they would have been able to get rid of the W54.

 

http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?bustalk=47532

 

Also Bx30 doesn't go to Fordham, W60, W61, and W62 offer a one seat ride to Fordham

[checkmatechamp13]

Which is outright wrong Bx30 should be way more frequent I don't know why beeline is allowed to get away with that shit it steals money from the MTA. It MTA did something similar in westchester they'd be pissed.

 

If the MTA felt it was "stealing money" from them, they'd run their own route along that corridor. 

[qjtransitmaster]

 Not really, according to this Bee Line liked a Bx34 extension to Mt Vernon, they would have been able to get rid of the W54.

 

http://talk.nycsubway.org/perl/read?bustalk=47532

 

Also Bx30 doesn't go to Fordham, W60, W61, and W62 offer a one seat ride to Fordham

to be honest If the  W4 went crosstown on nereid ave then it can continue to pelham via sandford and E 3rd to 5th ave it would link to the which folks hate for manhattan trips but it would allow the bee-line to axe the W54 and W53. Sadly I think too many people use it to the for that to work. Bx34 extension could eat up the 53 instead as it would be more unique.

Edited February 7, 2013 by qjtransitmaster