Bronx Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[Q43 Floral Park]

1.  This is my last comment on this... For someone who proudly boasts about traveling and living in the Bronx, it seems as if you feign ignorance when it suits you.  I don't even go to that area and I know that it's dangerous, and now suddenly you're shocked about the amount of high crime in the area, which has existed for decades? It's almost comical.

 

2. Yeah and?  The and are two of the worst routes around in terms of delays.  I don't think anyone needs to provide stats to support that when even the at one point a few years admitted that it was faster to take the than go express on the or .

 

3.  I've been a Riverdale resident for over 3 years now, and I have certainly heard from my fellow Riverdalians about how poor service has been since the take over.  As for Woodlawn, I have inside knowledge from Yonkers Depot,as I am a daily express bus rider, and know several folks out of the depot, and I was told that by several sources that Woodlawn residents complained about service.  Additionally, a decision was made to increase the service span from 22:45 to 00:15 heading back to Woodlawn to attract more ridership.  You keep talking about how service existed until 23:15, but it was cut back to 22:45, which by the way is the same time it stops running to Woodlawn on Saturdays.  Ultimately, the hope is that ridership will pick up because if it doesn't, severe cuts may be coming to the line in the future.

 

4. Oh please?  Running one express bus per hour is okay for coverage purposes, but running THREE buses per hour on a Saturday when ridership is light is a WASTE. There is nothing wrong with 30 minute headways when ridership is light for Co-Op City. In Riverdale we have 30 minute headways most of the day on Saturday with the BxM1 and BxM2, and we survive.  Imagine that.

 

5. Extending the BxM10 is a terrible idea.  The bulk of the ridership is from Pelham Gardens and Morris Park. The further north you go, the more the ridership drops off, as the folks up in Baychester and points north cannot afford the express bus like that, and the few that can are too busy trying to show off in their cars to be bothered with an express bus.

 

6.  If you're asking for one, why complain about it to me then?

 

1. I don't recall "boasting" about my travels throughout the Bronx and I most certainly don't deny that statistically some areas of NYC generally have higher crimes rates than others. I just said there are neighborhoods people often deem safe that are actually more dangerous than the neighborhoods with deplorable reputations. Thus, I don't fear the concept of walking through any neighborhood in this city...

 

You are correct in your assessment that I am and will always be a proud Bronxite regardless of where I reside. Correspondingly I will always find it highly disrespectful to hear non-natives speak badly about some neighborhoods while playing up others.  Every neighborhood has its charms and there are also members of this forum who reside in these communities...

 

2. MTA was most certainly referring to Lex Service in Manhattan as it'd be highly implausible to connect Bx16 riders with the .... if you bothered to look at the link you would see it discussed terminal delays which would be a Bronx issue and that affects the Bx16 a great deal as every station it connects to is a terminal.... That being said Second worst is better than the worst so once again why shaft Bx16 riders and force them to have Dyre or a 2 seat ride at Nereid only? Also the last thing Norwood needs (doubt they'd even allow it) is another route on Gun Hill making that turn on/off of Bainbridge.

 

3. If that article you linked is your evidence of Woodlawn asking for more service then it took them a decade which means they are piss poor at advocating for themselves. I'm not sure if you noticed...hell you clearly didn't otherwise you wouldn't have said:

 

"You keep talking about how service existed until 23:15, but it was cut back to 22:45, which by the way is the same time it stops running to Woodlawn on Saturdays."...

 

My remark was: "The 11:15 was the last run to Woodlawn for decades and they didn't say a thing. They got the 11:45 run when the Bxm4 was made because MTA chose to run it on the old BxM4A headways after the 745 run. Then they cut the 745 run so the hourly service began after the 715 run. If they put the last bus back at 11:15, it would have been a service cut. "

 

You can use a 12-hour or 24-hour format and it still won't change the fact that you misread my post. I never mentioned anything about a service cut back to a 10:45 run and my argument is still valid. Your "by the way" is completely unnecessary as I linked you the schedules going back 6 years meaning I'm aware of the service hours all week. If they asked for that run, I want physical proof not "inside knowledge". 

 

As for ridership picking up... doubt it. Its not really worth the 6 bucks for Concourse riders (Norwood maybe) and Woodlawn can't support a standalone service without them. 

 

4. Bad comparison, technically Riverdale has 15 minute headways to Manhattan so that's 4 buses an hour... There's nothing wrong with 30 minute headways but you still can't tell me what times so... round and round we go

 

5. If residents in Baychester and points north couldn't afford the express bus, the Bxm11 wouldn't be carrying as well as it does so try again.    that latter remark is simply disrespectful and a stereotype to boot....

 

6. I apologize for this one... I should have denoted that I was asking everyone more or less about the flexibility of express segment detours.

 

In general I don't feel like MTA does a decent job at promoting Express bus service/making it attractive. A roundtrip MN/LIRR CityTicket on the weekend is 4 bucks cheaper than the express bus round trip....

Edited March 6, 2015 by Q43 Floral Park

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. I don't recall "boasting" about my travels throughout the Bronx and I most certainly don't deny that statistically some areas of NYC generally have higher crimes rates than others. I just said there are neighborhoods people often deem safe that are actually more dangerous than the neighborhoods with deplorable reputations. Thus, I don't fear the concept of walking through any neighborhood in this city...

 

You are correct in your assessment that I am and will always be a proud Bronxite regardless of where I reside. Correspondingly I will always find it highly disrespectful to hear non-natives speak badly about some neighborhoods while playing up others.  Every neighborhood has its charms and there are also members of this forum who reside in these communities...

 

2. MTA was most certainly referring to Lex Service in Manhattan as it'd be highly implausible to connect Bx16 riders with the .... if you bothered to look at the link you would see it discussed terminal delays which would be a Bronx issue and that affects the Bx16 a great deal as every station it connects to is a terminal.... That being said Second worst is better than the worst so once again why shaft Bx16 riders and force them to have Dyre or a 2 seat ride at Nereid only? Also the last thing Norwood needs (doubt they'd even allow it) is another route on Gun Hill making that turn on/off of Bainbridge.

 

3. If that article you linked is your evidence of Woodlawn asking for more service then it took them a decade which means they are piss poor at advocating for themselves. I'm not sure if you noticed...hell you clearly didn't otherwise you wouldn't have said:

 

"You keep talking about how service existed until 23:15, but it was cut back to 22:45, which by the way is the same time it stops running to Woodlawn on Saturdays."...

 

My remark was: "The 11:15 was the last run to Woodlawn for decades and they didn't say a thing. They got the 11:45 run when the Bxm4 was made because MTA chose to run it on the old BxM4A headways after the 745 run. Then they cut the 745 run so the hourly service began after the 715 run. If they put the last bus back at 11:15, it would have been a service cut. "

 

You can use a 12-hour or 24-hour format and it still won't change the fact that you misread my post. I never mentioned anything about a service cut back to a 10:45 run and my argument is still valid. Your "by the way" is completely unnecessary as I linked you the schedules going back 6 years meaning I'm aware of the service hours all week. If they asked for that run, I want physical proof not "inside knowledge". 

 

As for ridership picking up... doubt it. Its not really worth the 6 bucks for Concourse riders (Norwood maybe) and Woodlawn can't support a standalone service without them. 

 

4. Bad comparison, technically Riverdale has 15 minute headways to Manhattan so that's 4 buses an hour... There's nothing wrong with 30 minute headways but you still can't tell me what times so... round and round we go

 

5. If residents in Baychester and points north couldn't afford the express bus, the Bxm11 wouldn't be carrying as well as it does so try again.    that latter remark is simply disrespectful and a stereotype to boot....

 

6. I apologize for this one... I should have denoted that I was asking everyone more or less about the flexibility of express segment detours.

 

In general I don't feel like MTA does a decent job at promoting Express bus service/making it attractive. A roundtrip MN/LIRR CityTicket on the weekend is 4 bucks cheaper than the express bus round trip....

1.  Could've fooled me... Whatever you would like to call it... You asked for facts and linked you to a news article that points to several crimes and a spike in crime along with it, and now you go back to what peoples opinions are... The facts show that it's a high crime area, whether you want to admit it or not. Next! lol  

 

2. All communities don't have access to multiple subway lines, and some have none, so as long as they have one that is what matters.  Norwood was fine with having Montefiore as a neighbor and already has the Bx16 running through the neighborhood so whether the Bx16 comes off of Gun Hill Rd or down Bainbridge shouldn't matter.  The re-route could help Bx16 riders have a faster ride to the train.

 

3.  Woodlawn residents asked for better service.  No community asks for a "specific run". Don't be ridiculous.  They were angry about losing service overall. The has responded by lengthening the service span to make the service more attractive.  You won't get physical proof.  I'm the neighborhood regularly, and speak with folks about service out of Yonkers, and that's the deal, so you either accept it or you don't.  For someone who has been a Yonkers Depot express bus rider for so long, that's something you should already know.

 

4. We have an East Midtown (BxM1) and a West Midtown bus (BxM2) and each line has 30 minute to an hour gap in service on Saturdays. Given the distance between the routes and the stops that they make, it isn't so easy to just switch off.  One needs to endure a long walk or make an additional connection, thus voiding any real "advantage". I was very clear about when BxM7 service should be cut back... On Saturdays during periods where ridership is light.  After 12:00, I would make service every 30 minutes.

 

5. Please... The BxM11's ridership comes primarily from Pelham Parkway, mainly Pelham Parkway residents and Bronx Zoo goers, and don't tell me otherwise because I've used the BxM11 enough to know exactly where the ridership comes from.  Ridership north of say Burke Avenue and White Plains Rd declines considerably, though you can have people up by the Yonkers border that will come down and use it, but that isn't consistent.    The BxM10 is practically empty once it drops off at Mace Avenue, so there is no need to extend it further, and if residents north of Baychester really wanted the service, and planned on using it, they would've lobbied for it a LONG time ago.

 

6.  I don't know what sort of "official detour" you want the to make for the BxM3, as it only has but so many options.  It uses Sedgwick for most of its route. Our Riverdale express buses are also limited with detours because it's either the Deegan, the Harlem River Drive or local streets to the city, and March is known to be a TERRIBLE month in terms of traffic.  Last night I got the BxM18 at the first stop Downtown. The bus was about 15 minutes late, and it took almost two hours to get to Riverdale because both the Deegan and the Harlem River Drive were slammed, not to mention traffic in the city.

 

The does just fine marketing express bus service.  They know the areas that can afford the service and look to boost ridership on those routes accordingly.  The BxM2 would be an example.  They have re-routed the route on a number of occasions to increase ridership.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

In general I don't feel like MTA does a decent job at promoting Express bus service/making it attractive. A roundtrip MN/LIRR CityTicket on the weekend is 4 bucks cheaper than the express bus round trip....

 

I'd say that the very presence of the bus is "promotion" enough — a 45-foot bus is kind of hard to miss!

[Q43 Floral Park]

1.  Could've fooled me... Whatever you would like to call it... You asked for facts and linked you to a news article that points to several crimes and a spike in crime along with it, and now you go back to what peoples opinions are... The facts show that it's a high crime area, whether you want to admit it or not. Next! lol  

 

2. All communities don't have access to multiple subway lines, and some have none, so as long as they have one that is what matters.  Norwood was fine with having Montefiore as a neighbor and already has the Bx16 running through the neighborhood so whether the Bx16 comes off of Gun Hill Rd or down Bainbridge shouldn't matter.  The re-route could help Bx16 riders have a faster ride to the train.

 

3.  Woodlawn residents asked for better service.  No community asks for a "specific run". Don't be ridiculous.  They were angry about losing service overall. The has responded by lengthening the service span to make the service more attractive.  You won't get physical proof.  I'm the neighborhood regularly, and speak with folks about service out of Yonkers, and that's the deal, so you either accept it or you don't.  For someone who has been a Yonkers Depot express bus rider for so long, that's something you should already know.

 

4. We have an East Midtown (BxM1) and a West Midtown bus (BxM2) and each line has 30 minute to an hour gap in service on Saturdays. Given the distance between the routes and the stops that they make, it isn't so easy to just switch off.  One needs to endure a long walk or make an additional connection, thus voiding any real "advantage". I was very clear about when BxM7 service should be cut back... On Saturdays during periods where ridership is light.  After 12:00, I would make service every 30 minutes.

 

5. Please... The BxM11's ridership comes primarily from Pelham Parkway, mainly Pelham Parkway residents and Bronx Zoo goers, and don't tell me otherwise because I've used the BxM11 enough to know exactly where the ridership comes from.  Ridership north of say Burke Avenue and White Plains Rd declines considerably, though you can have people up by the Yonkers border that will come down and use it, but that isn't consistent.    The BxM10 is practically empty once it drops off at Mace Avenue, so there is no need to extend it further, and if residents north of Baychester really wanted the service, and planned on using it, they would've lobbied for it a LONG time ago.

 

6.  I don't know what sort of "official detour" you want the to make for the BxM3, as it only has but so many options.  It uses Sedgwick for most of its route. Our Riverdale express buses are also limited with detours because it's either the Deegan, the Harlem River Drive or local streets to the city, and March is known to be a TERRIBLE month in terms of traffic.  Last night I got the BxM18 at the first stop Downtown. The bus was about 15 minutes late, and it took almost two hours to get to Riverdale because both the Deegan and the Harlem River Drive were slammed, not to mention traffic in the city.

 

The does just fine marketing express bus service.  They know the areas that can afford the service and look to boost ridership on those routes accordingly.  The BxM2 would be an example.  They have re-routed the route on a number of occasions to increase ridership.

 

 

2.  The intersection at GH/Bainbridge is one of the most dangerous in the borough (http://www.norwoodnews.org/id=2777&story=assessing-the-bronxs-most-dangerous-road/) and has nothing to do with Montefiore. Norwood isn't going to go for another route clogging the intersection turning.  Cutting off the Bx16 from the 4, marring connectivity and putting it in traffic for the sake of "keeping Woodlawn safe"... Yikes.

 

3.  Save your sass for a friend, which I'm not and just admit you misinterpreted what I said regarding the Bxm4. The times they lost service were in the Peak not late evenings. What is ridiculous about a community having input on when a run needs to be added if they are requesting the service?  There should be article denoting this request similar to the ones you provide for Riverdale... 

 

4. Still technically a bus to/from Manhattan every 15 mins so its more service than Co-op has... Also flexibility with regards to the 1/2 really depends on a riders age and ultimate destination (especially with them on the UES both way n/o 79) . I think 7am is too early for 20 min  Bxm7 headways but 12 is too late to start considering it switches to 30 mins after 2pm.... 10am would be a solid middle ground...

 

5.  Let me be clear I'm discussing the weekday Bxm11 but I knew you were going to say this...You have stop by stop ridership to back that up? You say that they would have asked for a Bxm10 extension.... how do you know they didn't and there isn't "any physical proof" as you claimed for Woodlawn?

 

6. Perhaps I wasn't clear... I was saying the B/O used Sedgwick the entire way (as in 138-Exterior-Sedgwick).. The biggest lifesaver in days of yore was via 7av-155-HRD... haven't seen that used in a while.

 

General remarks:

As for affording the express bus, I think that logic will doom routes (Bxm3/4/6, BM1-5, QM21 etc).  I'll reiterate that I don't think it should be more than 200% base fare...  

 

The Bxm2 routing in Manhattan never really made much sense (you could leave the UWS from N/o of 79 but you couldn't get there without a crosstown) and the only thing worse than it following that routing was the fact that some Bxm18 runs used to go that way N/B (you had to x-fer at 99/Madison)....

 

 

I'd say that the very presence of the bus is "promotion" enough — a 45-foot bus is kind of hard to miss!

True but people still confuse it for the local somehow. I don't think I've ever seen an MTA poster that said take the Bxm1/2 to Wave Hill, the 3 to the Golf Course, 4 to Yankee Games, the 11 to the Zoo, QM5 to the Farm etc....

Edited March 7, 2015 by Q43 Floral Park

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2.  The intersection at GH/Bainbridge is one of the most dangerous in the borough (http://www.norwoodnews.org/id=2777&story=assessing-the-bronxs-most-dangerous-road/) and has nothing to do with Montefiore. Norwood isn't going to go for another route clogging the intersection turning.  Cutting off the Bx16 from the 4, marring connectivity and putting it in traffic for the sake of "keeping Woodlawn safe"... Yikes.

 

3.  Save your sass for a friend, which I'm not and just admit you misinterpreted what I said regarding the Bxm4. The times they lost service were in the Peak not late evenings. What is ridiculous about a community having input on when a run needs to be added if they are requesting the service?  There should be article denoting this request similar to the ones you provide for Riverdale... 

 

4. Still technically a bus to/from Manhattan every 15 mins so its more service than Co-op has... Also flexibility with regards to the 1/2 really depends on a riders age and ultimate destination (especially with them on the UES both way n/o 79) . I think 7am is too early for 20 min  Bxm7 headways but 12 is too late to start considering it switches to 30 mins after 2pm.... 10am would be a solid middle ground...

 

5.  Let me be clear I'm discussing the weekday Bxm11 but I knew you were going to say this...You have stop by stop ridership to back that up? You say that they would have asked for a Bxm10 extension.... how do you know they didn't and there isn't "any physical proof" as you claimed for Woodlawn?

 

6. Perhaps I wasn't clear... I was saying the B/O used Sedgwick the entire way (as in 138-Exterior-Sedgwick).. The biggest lifesaver in days of yore was via 7av-155-HRD... haven't seen that used in a while.

 

General remarks:

As for affording the express bus, I think that logic will doom routes (Bxm3/4/6, BM1-5, QM21 etc).  I'll reiterate that I don't think it should be more than 200% base fare...  

 

The Bxm2 routing in Manhattan never really made much sense (you could leave the UWS from N/o of 79 but you couldn't get there without a crosstown) and the only thing worse than it following that routing was the fact that some Bxm18 runs used to go that way N/B (you had to x-fer at 99/Madison)....

 

 

True but people still confuse it for the local somehow. I don't think I've ever seen an MTA poster that said take the Bxm1/2 to Wave Hill, the 3 to the Golf Course, 4 to Yankee Games, the 11 to the Zoo, QM5 to the Farm etc....

2.  Please. It would speed up the rides of Bx16 commuters, and if it isn't serving Woodlawn, no point in having it run through there.  233rd ia clogged enough as it is and the Bx16 already runs through Gun Hill Rd via Bainbridge.

 

3. All I know is the service span was shortened at some point to 22:45 during the week.  Now it has been expanded to 00:15.

 

4. Actually I don't think 07:00 is too early for Co-Op City because that's a working class neighborhood.  Those people need to work on the weekends, so I understand the 20 minute headways early.  Contrast that with Riverdale, an upper middle to upper class neighborhood where folks are going to Manhattan primarily to shop with the occasional worker here and there, most of whom are in the medical field anyway, so working on weekends for them is understandable and normal... Totally different priorities....

 

5. I have eyes.  I've used the BxM11 enough to know what I'm talking about, and have been an express bus rider for almost 10 years.  It isn't rocket science. And since you think the BxM10 should be extended, let's see the proof of it.  As I said before, the is marketing to Morris Park because that's where the money is, and it isn't so much Morris Park residents that they're targeting, but rather Albert Einstein campus students and doctors and researchers coming from Manhattan.  Those are the folks that can afford the express bus and who will fill those buses up during off-peak and weekend hours.  They already know the Morris Park folks know about the BxM10 bus and use it, especially given how poorly the train runs.

 

6. Yeah, I've had Riverdale buses do that as well (i.e. the BxM18).  Perhaps the Deegan was really backed up...

 

7. Well some areas have changing demographics, which means fewer folks that hate the subway and prefer the express bus due to safety reason, cleanliness, etc.  Those folks fleed from the Concourse (en masse ) years ago.  Similar situation in Parkchester, most of the BxM3 route, etc.

 

8. The BxM2 routing doesn't make sense to you because you're not a Riverdalian. lol Riverdalians like to do shopping on the Upper East and Upper West Sides, go for dinner, see shows at Lincoln Center, and have family events in Central Park.  You also have many Riverdalians who work or spend time in West Midtown. I've met plenty of current Riverdalians who moved from Manhattan (primarily Upper East Side or Upper West Side) and now go to and from via the BxM1 or BxM2.  I'll list the stops below on the BxM2 and how they serve us:

 

5th & 98th/Madison & 99th - Serves Mount Sinai doctors and other managers and staff, and patients.  They primarily get off of there during weekdays, but I see some workers on weekends as well. I've also seen elderly folks get off there heading for appointments. I ride the BxM2 reguarly so you get a feel for these things after a while, plus I speak with some of the passengers too.  Also serves as a BxM1 backup to get over to points east of Central Park, though one has to walk a bit.  I've seen BxM1 riders use the BxM2 when they're in a pinch, as I do it as well.

 

5th & 94th/Madison & 84th - Connects to Upper East Side, Central Park.

 

5th & 81st/Madison & 80th - Serves MET workers (there are a few riders that get off there and work there, as they use the employee entrance), museum goes; Connects to Upper East Side - Madison Av shopping, restaurants, etc.)

 

Central Park West & 81st - Connects to trains (the is banking on this stop growing ridership over the years, and I have seen a spike in usage, as I get off there myself for shopping or to use the subway, etc.), Museums, shopping for stroller moms on Upper West Side (I see a lot of stroller mom types with their kids getting off here for shopping). 

Columbus & 72nd/Broadway & 72nd - Shopping along Broadway, Columbus Avenue, restaurants, Trader Joe's and Fairway - See quite a few people with Trader Joe bags and regular Fairway riders as well. Connects to subway lines.

 

63rd & Broadway - BIG stop - Lincoln Center goes, Whole Foods shoppers, restaurant goers, Broadway shoppers, college students.

 

57th & 7th/Central Park South & 59th - Shopping, West Midtown workers.

 

50th & 7th/6th & 53rd - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, shopping, etc.

 

40th & 6th/7th & 42nd - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, Times Square, shopping, etc.

 

 

35th & 6th/7th & 34th - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, a lot of folks shopping, restaurants, MSG, bars, etc.

 

The BxM2 gets a lot of ridership on weekends because it's an play bus more than a work bus.  The BxM1 serves more of the worker types than the BxM2 does.

 

The re-routing that it currently has makes sense, given how little ridership it received when it cut over to 99th using the Trasverse above 81st street.  It gives us who frequent the Upper East Side a lot an option when the BxM1 has issues or we are closer to 5th & Madison.

 

9.  Express buses are usually marketed by realtors, and local businesses.  Additionally as Gotham said, it's not so easy to miss a big commuter bus.

[B35 via Church]

I agree, Bx16 riders won't approve of it being on Webster the whole way and the last time I used it, it hit every light on 233. I can't see what the problem would be running it VCE/McLean closed door when technically it does stop in Mt Vernon. I definitely think MTA was trying to replace the 34 with 16 because we all know Woodlawn has no need for 3 routes. I'm still not completely convinced it would be the worst thing in the world....

To clarify, I wasn't referring to the ridiculousness of running along Webster the whole way though in that part of the last post.... Running buses along that stretch just to get to Gun Hill rd. simply makes no sense, since for one, it's not the with the Bx16 the NE Bronx riders are clamoring to get to, anymore than the ... And even if, you'd still be better off running Bx16's clear down Bainbridge, as opposed to Webster > Gun Hill > Bainbridge for that purpose....

 

Anyway, someone else on here suggested having Bx41's run up that stretch as well, and I had the same sentiments for that as well..... Nothing should be running along that dead part of Webster b/w 233rd & Gun Hill....

 

That, and you could get away with running non stop on Van Cortlandt - whereas Webster, not so much, due to how isolated it feels & it being more residential over there, with the apt's & what not (which is why I'd run the Bx31 back up there... coverage reasons)....

With this, I was just referring to the current part of Webster that the Bx16 takes here, in comparison with running non-stop on Van Cortlandt... In other words, there would be the same complaints with running buses nonstop along 233rd, as there would be with doing so along Webster b/w Nereid & 233rd (the current 16)....

Edited March 8, 2015 by B35 via Church

[Q43 Floral Park]

2.  Please. It would speed up the rides of Bx16 commuters, and if it isn't serving Woodlawn, no point in having it run through there.  233rd ia clogged enough as it is and the Bx16 already runs through Gun Hill Rd via Bainbridge.

 

3. All I know is the service span was shortened at some point to 22:45 during the week.  Now it has been expanded to 00:15.

 

4. Actually I don't think 07:00 is too early for Co-Op City because that's a working class neighborhood.  Those people need to work on the weekends, so I understand the 20 minute headways early.  Contrast that with Riverdale, an upper middle to upper class neighborhood where folks are going to Manhattan primarily to shop with the occasional worker here and there, most of whom are in the medical field anyway, so working on weekends for them is understandable and normal... Totally different priorities....

 

5. I have eyes.  I've used the BxM11 enough to know what I'm talking about, and have been an express bus rider for almost 10 years.  It isn't rocket science. And since you think the BxM10 should be extended, let's see the proof of it.  As I said before, the is marketing to Morris Park because that's where the money is, and it isn't so much Morris Park residents that they're targeting, but rather Albert Einstein campus students and doctors and researchers coming from Manhattan.  Those are the folks that can afford the express bus and who will fill those buses up during off-peak and weekend hours.  They already know the Morris Park folks know about the BxM10 bus and use it, especially given how poorly the train runs.

 

6. Yeah, I've had Riverdale buses do that as well (i.e. the BxM18).  Perhaps the Deegan was really backed up...

 

7. Well some areas have changing demographics, which means fewer folks that hate the subway and prefer the express bus due to safety reason, cleanliness, etc.  Those folks fleed from the Concourse (en masse ) years ago.  Similar situation in Parkchester, most of the BxM3 route, etc.

 

8. The BxM2 routing doesn't make sense to you because you're not a Riverdalian. lol Riverdalians like to do shopping on the Upper East and Upper West Sides, go for dinner, see shows at Lincoln Center, and have family events in Central Park.  You also have many Riverdalians who work or spend time in West Midtown. I've met plenty of current Riverdalians who moved from Manhattan (primarily Upper East Side or Upper West Side) and now go to and from via the BxM1 or BxM2.  I'll list the stops below on the BxM2 and how they serve us:

 

5th & 98th/Madison & 99th - Serves Mount Sinai doctors and other managers and staff, and patients.  They primarily get off of there during weekdays, but I see some workers on weekends as well. I've also seen elderly folks get off there heading for appointments. I ride the BxM2 reguarly so you get a feel for these things after a while, plus I speak with some of the passengers too.  Also serves as a BxM1 backup to get over to points east of Central Park, though one has to walk a bit.  I've seen BxM1 riders use the BxM2 when they're in a pinch, as I do it as well.

 

5th & 94th/Madison & 84th - Connects to Upper East Side, Central Park.

 

5th & 81st/Madison & 80th - Serves MET workers (there are a few riders that get off there and work there, as they use the employee entrance), museum goes; Connects to Upper East Side - Madison Av shopping, restaurants, etc.)

 

Central Park West & 81st - Connects to trains (the is banking on this stop growing ridership over the years, and I have seen a spike in usage, as I get off there myself for shopping or to use the subway, etc.), Museums, shopping for stroller moms on Upper West Side (I see a lot of stroller mom types with their kids getting off here for shopping). 

Columbus & 72nd/Broadway & 72nd - Shopping along Broadway, Columbus Avenue, restaurants, Trader Joe's and Fairway - See quite a few people with Trader Joe bags and regular Fairway riders as well. Connects to subway lines.

 

63rd & Broadway - BIG stop - Lincoln Center goes, Whole Foods shoppers, restaurant goers, Broadway shoppers, college students.

 

57th & 7th/Central Park South & 59th - Shopping, West Midtown workers.

 

50th & 7th/6th & 53rd - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, shopping, etc.

 

40th & 6th/7th & 42nd - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, Times Square, shopping, etc.

 

 

35th & 6th/7th & 34th - Another BIG stop - West Midtown workers, a lot of folks shopping, restaurants, MSG, bars, etc.

 

The BxM2 gets a lot of ridership on weekends because it's an play bus more than a work bus.  The BxM1 serves more of the worker types than the BxM2 does.

 

The re-routing that it currently has makes sense, given how little ridership it received when it cut over to 99th using the Trasverse above 81st street.  It gives us who frequent the Upper East Side a lot an option when the BxM1 has issues or we are closer to 5th & Madison.

 

9.  Express buses are usually marketed by realtors, and local businesses.  Additionally as Gotham said, it's not so easy to miss a big commuter bus.

 

2. Theres a difference between running the Bx16 THROUGH Gun Hill Rd on Bainbridge and running the Bx16 ON Gun Hill. Way to just disregard the article, the safety of Norwood pedestrians and the fact that they want the at Woodlawn... again for some false sense of safety...

 

3. Please post a schedule that shows the weekday last run to Woodlawn at 10:45PM at any point in the past.

 

4. Sorry Misread the original post, Then that's only a cut of 2 runs.... is it worth it?

 

5. I'd trust Stevie Wonder's eyesight on Bxm11 ridership over yours when you're afraid to go into the neighborhoods it terminates in.... Tell me one instance of you riding it to 241 and describe what you saw... the poor service is all the more reason to make sure that Northern Dyre Av riders are covered by the Bxm10.

 

6. & 7. Not sure what you're saying/point is but people are starting to move back to these areas...

 

8.  just like you aren't a Bronxite right? Spare me the BS. This "stop by stop analysis" is trash when I said the old routing didn't make sense not the current one (did you know the Bxm18s used to go that way also?). The only way the old routing would have been successful was if the S/B Bxm2 crossed to the west side at 96 St as well. All of this continues to tell me you don't read my posts thoroughly or have the ability to admit when you're wrong...

 

For everyone: I'm not talking about realtors or businesses... When has MTA actively promoted the usage of the express buses to get to venues/events?

 

 

To clarify, I wasn't referring to the ridiculousness of running along Webster the whole way though in that part of the last post.... Running buses along that stretch just to get to Gun Hill rd. simply makes no sense, since for one, it's not the with the Bx16 the NE Bronx riders are clamoring to get to, anymore than the ... And even if, you'd still be better off running Bx16's clear down Bainbridge, as opposed to Webster > Gun Hill > Bainbridge for that purpose....

 

Anyway, someone else on here suggested having Bx41's run up that stretch as well, and I had the same sentiments for that as well..... Nothing should be running along that dead part of Webster b/w 233rd & Gun Hill....

 

With this, I was just referring to the current part of Webster that the Bx16 takes here, in comparison with running non-stop on Van Cortlandt... In other words, there would be the same complaints with running buses nonstop along 233rd, as there would be with doing so along Webster b/w Nereid & 233rd (the current 16)....

 

I know you've been ignoring the nonsensical suggestions regarding the Bx16 and your insights are spot on... On an aside do you have any other suggestions for that area of the NE Bronx?

 

Not that I'm entertaining it but where did they suggested sending the 41 after going up that way? I hope not to 241 still....

 

Like I said out of sight, out of mind. I'm not that familiar with VCP East but based on you originally stating it should skip straight to the I assume theres no need for bus stops on that road?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Q43 Floral Park

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

5. I'd trust Stevie Wonder's eyesight on Bxm11 ridership over yours when you're afraid to go into the neighborhoods it terminates in.... Tell me one instance of you riding it to 241 and describe what you saw... the poor service is all the more reason to make sure that Northern Dyre Av riders are covered by the Bxm10.

 

6. & 7. Not sure what you're saying/point is but people are starting to move back to these areas...

 

8.  just like you aren't a Bronxite right? Spare me the BS. This "stop by stop analysis" is trash when I said the old routing didn't make sense not the current one (did you know the Bxm18s used to go that way also?). The only way the old routing would have been successful was if the S/B Bxm2 crossed to the west side at 96 St as well. All of this continues to tell me you don't read my posts thoroughly or have the ability to admit when you're wrong...

 

8a. For everyone: I'm not talking about realtors or businesses... When has MTA actively promoted the usage of the express buses to get to venues/events?

 

5. Highly doubt the ridership is concentrated along Pelham Parkway (P.S; Hasn't this specific topic been discussed before?)

 

6&7. Me neither, I didn't understand either.

 

8a. NEVER!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5. Highly doubt the ridership is concentrated along Pelham Parkway (P.S; Hasn't this specific topic been discussed before?)

 

You don't huh? Funny because the bus empties out nicely in the Pelham Parkway neighborhood.

 

2. Theres a difference between running the Bx16 THROUGH Gun Hill Rd on Bainbridge and running the Bx16 ON Gun Hill. Way to just disregard the article, the safety of Norwood pedestrians and the fact that they want the at Woodlawn... again for some false sense of safety...

 

3. Please post a schedule that shows the weekday last run to Woodlawn at 10:45PM at any point in the past.

 

4. Sorry Misread the original post, Then that's only a cut of 2 runs.... is it worth it?

 

5. I'd trust Stevie Wonder's eyesight on Bxm11 ridership over yours when you're afraid to go into the neighborhoods it terminates in.... Tell me one instance of you riding it to 241 and describe what you saw... the poor service is all the more reason to make sure that Northern Dyre Av riders are covered by the Bxm10.

 

6. & 7. Not sure what you're saying/point is but people are starting to move back to these areas...

 

8.  just like you aren't a Bronxite right? Spare me the BS. This "stop by stop analysis" is trash when I said the old routing didn't make sense not the current one (did you know the Bxm18s used to go that way also?). The only way the old routing would have been successful was if the S/B Bxm2 crossed to the west side at 96 St as well. All of this continues to tell me you don't read my posts thoroughly or have the ability to admit when you're wrong...

 

For everyone: I'm not talking about realtors or businesses... When has MTA actively promoted the usage of the express buses to get to venues/events?

 

 

 

I know you've been ignoring the nonsensical suggestions regarding the Bx16 and your insights are spot on... On an aside do you have any other suggestions for that area of the NE Bronx?

 

Not that I'm entertaining it but where did they suggested sending the 41 after going up that way? I hope not to 241 still....

 

Like I said out of sight, out of mind. I'm not that familiar with VCP East but based on you originally stating it should skip straight to the I assume theres no need for bus stops on that road?

2. Well that's my proposal.  You don't have to agree with it, and besides it's not like it's happening anyway, so might as well relax.

 

 

3. If you have access to old ones you can post it.  I don't, but I do recall the last bus leaving Northbound at 22:45 during the week.  This new schedule with the last run being at 00:15 has only been around since 2014 or so, thus meaning that the service is fairly new. 

 

4.  Of course.  We lost a BxM1 run on Sunday nights and it saves at least a million dollars or more.  In exchange, the BxM2 runs until 00:30 back to Riverdale.  I wasn't thrilled about it because it means a loss of service to the East Side, but if money is tight, we have to make due with less.  

 

5. I don't have a need to go to 241st nor would I, but I've boarded plenty of times at near Burke Avenue, and I was the only one on it until we reached the last pick-up stop in Pelham Parkway.  That's where the bus would fill up... That stop and the Bronx Zoo stop. Going Northbound, by Burke the bus would be practically empty.

 

6. You asked about express buses running different ways other than the Deegan, and I stated that my BxM18 run via Inwood and the Harlem River Drive to avoid the Deegan.

 

7. Just because people are moving back to those areas doesn't mean that they're using the express bus, as shown by the drop in ridership on those lines.  They're fleeing from more expensive areas and moving to the Bronx for a reason. lol

 

8. I'm a proud Brooklynite and a current Riverdalian.  As for your comment about the BxM2, perhaps you should be clearer about what you're trying to say because it sounded like you meant the current and former routing:

 

 

 

The Bxm2 routing in Manhattan never really made much sense (you could leave the UWS from N/o of 79 but you couldn't get there without a crosstown) and the only thing worse than it following that routing was the fact that some Bxm18 runs used to go that way N/B (you had to x-fer at 99/Madison)....

 

9.  The markets express buses differently.  Always have and always will.

[B35 via Church]

For everyone: I'm not talking about realtors or businesses...

 

When has MTA actively promoted the usage of the express buses to get to venues/events?

8a. NEVER!

Hate to be technical (because I do get your point), but it was done with the x80/x81(when that existed)....

Randall's Island, when they have those sporting events/concerts down at Icahn (stadium).

 

I know you've been ignoring the nonsensical suggestions regarding the Bx16 and your insights are spot on...

On an aside do you have any other suggestions for that area of the NE Bronx?

 

Not that I'm entertaining it but where did they suggested sending the 41 after going up that way? I hope not to 241 still....

 

Like I said out of sight, out of mind. I'm not that familiar with VCP East but based on you originally stating it should skip straight to the I assume theres no need for bus stops on that road?

- I do, but it's Bee-Line involved....

 

- My short term memory isn't the greatest, but I found the post of the person who suggested it - which answers your question btw

(My reply to it, is here)

 

- I honestly don't see Woodlawn patrons making their way to VCP, when they got the Bx34 centrally located along Katonah..... However, they would use it (the 16) if it ran along Katonah, b/c then it would be "just another bus" - since they would have the exact same routing to the & what not..... And I don't get the sense that Woodlawn patrons are seeking service towards the NE Bronx anyway, so IMO, the thing may as well run nonstop along VCP....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Van Cortlandt Park East is a very isolated part of Woodlawn and certainly isn't a corridor that folks will want a local bus running down. With the park right across the street, it creates a very quiet environment, and is the more well-to-do part of Woodlawn when one considers that Woodlawn as a whole is mainly a solid middle class neighborhood, not thought of as being "affluent".

[BxM4Woodlawn]

the Bx16 should just stay the way it is via 233rd St/Webster Ave. and the BxM4 has never been the favorite of the MTA ever since they took over. Liberty Lines did a much better job with all the routes overall. As for detours, any express bus route should be able to detour if necessary. The best ways to go are via 7th Ave/155th St/Harlem River Drive for the BxM1/2/18. 138th St/Exterior/Sedgwick for the BxM3.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

...and the BxM4 has never been the favorite of the MTA ever since they took over. Liberty Lines did a much better job with all the routes overall.

There is a lot of talk that major cuts could be coming for the BxM4.  I use it at least 2 - 4 times a week, once or twice during the week, during the rush and off-peak, and also on weekends, and several B/Os I have spoken to fear that cuts will be coming... Just a matter of when... A few of them have suggested that the hasn't done enough to promote the line so that it could its potential could be maximized.  For example, it passes right by Yankee Stadium, yet the doesn't encourage Yankee fans to use it.  Another B/O thinks it should run into Yonkers instead just to the Woodlawn/Yonkers border, similar to what has been proposed here.  I personally believe that if it can hold on, gentrification in the South Bronx may help to keep it afloat, but gentrification along the Concourse is happening at a slow rate.  Outside of the South Bronx, it will need more ridership from Bedford Park (an area that seems to get a decent amount of ridership but not as much as it should). Montefiore Medical Center in Norwood also could be a better draw, but unfortunately the frequencies turned off some of the faculty from using it.  Woodlawn is too small to support it any more than it does and too many residents flock to Metro-North.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

There is a lot of talk that major cuts could be coming for the BxM4.  I use it at least 2 - 4 times a week, once or twice during the week, during the rush and off-peak, and also on weekends, and several B/Os I have spoken to fear that cuts will be coming... Just a matter of when... A few of them have suggested that the hasn't done enough to promote the line so that it could its potential could be maximized.  For example, it passes right by Yankee Stadium, yet the doesn't encourage Yankee fans to use it.  Another B/O thinks it should run into Yonkers instead just to the Woodlawn/Yonkers border, similar to what has been proposed here.  I personally believe that if it can hold on, gentrification in the South Bronx may help to keep it afloat, but gentrification along the Concourse is happening at a slow rate.  Outside of the South Bronx, it will need more ridership from Bedford Park (an area that seems to get a decent amount of ridership but not as much as it should). Montefiore Medical Center in Norwood also could be a better draw, but unfortunately the frequencies turned off some of the faculty from using it.  Woodlawn is too small to support it any more than it does and too many residents flock to Metro-North.

Liberty Lines did a much better job at running the YON Routes than MTA did.  MTA should bting back all those services that the BxM4 got back then.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Liberty Lines did a much better job at running the YON Routes than MTA did.  MTA should bting back all those services that the BxM4 got back then.

I don't consider Woodlawn getting 2 hour headways on weekends and no evening service to Manhattan (last bus was around 6:50) on weekends an improvement over the current BxM4. Weekday service was cut down, that I'll agree, but LLE overserved the route, especially middays, and the AM periods when they had the SX trips. That called for uneven headways too, because you'd have a 90 minute gap in Woodlawn in the hear of rush hour. I find that the MTA better managed resources on the BxM4. They did start cutting BxM4 trips, but we'll have to see how that manages to pan out. 

[BxM4Woodlawn]

I don't consider Woodlawn getting 2 hour headways on weekends and no evening service to Manhattan (last bus was around 6:50) on weekends an improvement over the current BxM4. Weekday service was cut down, that I'll agree, but LLE overserved the route, especially middays, and the AM periods when they had the SX trips. That called for uneven headways too, because you'd have a 90 minute gap in Woodlawn in the hear of rush hour. I find that the MTA better managed resources on the BxM4. They did start cutting BxM4 trips, but we'll have to see how that manages to pan out. 

with the SX trips from Woodlawn, LLE also ran a BxM4B that started at the Woodlawn station. But overall LLE did a better job than MTA

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't consider Woodlawn getting 2 hour headways on weekends and no evening service to Manhattan (last bus was around 6:50) on weekends an improvement over the current BxM4. Weekday service was cut down, that I'll agree, but LLE overserved the route, especially middays, and the AM periods when they had the SX trips. That called for uneven headways too, because you'd have a 90 minute gap in Woodlawn in the hear of rush hour. I find that the MTA better managed resources on the BxM4. They did start cutting BxM4 trips, but we'll have to see how that manages to pan out. 

Cutting what? They added two trips recently Northbound... The only thing they cut was the 22:00 Southound trip on Sundays, but the 21:00 trip does fine.

with the SX trips from Woodlawn, LLE also ran a BxM4B that started at the Woodlawn station. But overall LLE did a better job than MTA

How could they run SX trips only from Woodlawn?  Woodlawn is just too small for SX trips... You can reach 234th and Katonah from 242nd in no time, and then you only have 2 or so stops along 233rd, with only one of them having folks waiting.  Those trips should've been extended into Yonkers to attract more ridership.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Cutting what? They added two trips recently Northbound... The only thing they cut was the 22:00 Southound trip on Sundays, but the 21:00 trip does fine.

I'm talking about the BxM4A (in it's entirety) and the more recent sunday trips on the BxM4 post budget cuts. That (4A) was a pure waste of resources, all that was needed there was the old BxM4B running up and down the Concourse. 

 

with the SX trips from Woodlawn, LLE also ran a BxM4B that started at the Woodlawn station. But overall LLE did a better job than MTA

Yes, but because of those SX trips also gave woodlawn uneven headways. I would not deal with such route that has 90 minute headways, 40-45 minute headways, and 20 minute headways all combined in one rush hour period. It took the MTA 1-2 years to implement an even headway (after LLE takeover). If you're talking about it from an overall service standpoint you have to understand if buses don't carry a significant amount of riders, then it will be cut, especially if there are alternatives or the corresponding DH for another trip will be significantly less (less runs). I don't think those SX trips were really a need. Those SX trips served a very tiny portion of the current route. MAYBE, if it was still around, if the BxM4 SX served Norwood, and Gun Hill Road, maybe you could've seen extra riders on those SX trips. The ridership is not there for such trips, unfortunately. Now, if you're talking about on time percentge, I can probably give you that.

Edited March 16, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

I don't consider Woodlawn getting 2 hour headways on weekends and no evening service to Manhattan (last bus was around 6:50) on weekends an improvement over the current BxM4. Weekday service was cut down, that I'll agree, but LLE overserved the route, especially middays, and the AM periods when they had the SX trips. That called for uneven headways too, because you'd have a 90 minute gap in Woodlawn in the hear of rush hour. I find that the MTA better managed resources on the BxM4. They did start cutting BxM4 trips, but we'll have to see how that manages to pan out. 

LLE cared about the riders, the MTA cares (more) about resources.... That's the difference.

 

.....I don't think those SX trips were really a need. Those SX trips served a very tiny portion of the current route. MAYBE, if it was still around, if the BxM4 SX served Norwood, and Gun Hill Road, maybe you could've seen extra riders on those SX trips. The ridership is not there for such trips, unfortunately. Now, if you're talking about on time percentge, I can probably give you that.

How would that have been possible though; Feasibly, anyway?

The BxM4 Sx trips went along the Deegan straight to the 233rd exit.... The exit before that is the Van Cortlandt exit in Kingsbridge Heights (the same one the BxM3 Sx uses).... Meandering through Kingsbridge Hgts. just to get back to Gun Hill is just plain crazy... Woodlawn riders wouldn't put up with that, and I wouldn't blame them one bit.....

 

For what you're saying with this, those buses would have had to use the Concourse....

Edited March 17, 2015 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LLE cared about the riders, the MTA cares (more) about resources.... That's the difference.

 

How would that have been possible though; Feasibly, anyway?

The BxM4 Sx trips went along the Deegan straight to the 233rd exit.... The exit before that is the Van Cortlandt exit in Kingsbridge Heights (the same one the BxM3 Sx uses).... Meandering through Kingsbridge Hgts. just to get back to Gun Hill is just plain crazy... Woodlawn riders wouldn't put up with that, and I wouldn't blame them one bit.....

 

For what you're saying with this, those buses would have had to use the Concourse....

Agreed.... Doing all of that wouldn't save any time either.  Those Super Express trips were a very good idea.  I've done them (unofficially) when we've only had folks going to Woodlawn or Yonkers and they save a TON of time.  I have to think that ridership on the BxM4 was never that great though to have those SX trips really full.  If anything I could see the Concourse having more ridership before many areas went down hill.  I'm willing to bet that it was a combination of factors though... Poorer neighborhoods, but also the time the BxM4 spends wandering along the Concourse.  I think the trip is only tolerable because I can get a nap and have a chair I can recline in but the alternative (the  train) is terrible as well.  I can certainly see why folks in Woodlawn prefer Metro-North overall, even if the trains are packed.   I have to say I wouldn't want my worst enemy to deal with the .  It just takes forever, especially the last three stops.  Those three alone can eat up 15 - 20 minutes of waiting, and then you have to take a bus afterwards if you aren't picked up which was my case.  The BxM4 clocks in around 45 - 50 minutes for me from Woodlawn to my destination, which the bus to the train couldn't beat, but take out the Concourse and the 20 - 30 minutes of meandering and jump on the Deegan, and you could be in Manhattan in 10 minutes once you go through Woodlawn, which is 5 minutes tops. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Q43 Floral Park]

LLE cared about the riders, the MTA cares (more) about resources.... That's the difference.

 

How would that have been possible though; Feasibly, anyway?

The BxM4 Sx trips went along the Deegan straight to the 233rd exit.... The exit before that is the Van Cortlandt exit in Kingsbridge Heights (the same one the BxM3 Sx uses).... Meandering through Kingsbridge Hgts. just to get back to Gun Hill is just plain crazy... Woodlawn riders wouldn't put up with that, and I wouldn't blame them one bit.....

 

For what you're saying with this, those buses would have had to use the Concourse....

 

I always wondered why they didn't find a way of running the BxM4 on the main road...

[Gotham Bus Co.]

LLE cared about the riders, the MTA cares (more) about resources.... That's the difference.

 

LLE and the other private carriers cared about maximizing their REIMBURSEMENTS.  They all had a "cost-plus" arrangement with NYCDOT, meaning that they could spend as much as they wanted (say, by having a dozen or so buses in Manhattan on stand-by) and get paid back for all of it PLUS a 6% guaranteed profit.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I always wondered why they didn't find a way of running the BxM4 on the main road...

What main road??

 

LLE and the other private carriers cared about maximizing their REIMBURSEMENTS.  They all had a "cost-plus" arrangement with NYCDOT, meaning that they could spend as much as they wanted (say, by having a dozen or so buses in Manhattan on stand-by) and get paid back for all of it PLUS a 6% guaranteed profit.

Oh please.  That is a lie.  If that were the case you would've had far more service.

[BxM4Woodlawn]

I say extend the BxM4 up to Cross County Shopping Center in Yonkers via Kimball Ave. That would bring in some more riders to the route.

[Q43 Floral Park]

What main road??

 

Oh please.  That is a lie.  If that were the case you would've had far more service.

 

It runs on the "service road" currently so I wondered if a set up like the B7 on Kings Highway would work. It doesn't run frequently enough to mar traffic, the islands are already there and less lights...

 

I don't know about the arrangement LLE had with DOT but it was rare to see less than 3 buses at 26 St. It was also rare to see a run drop... The PM Bxm3 headways were ~10mins and the Bxm4A/Bs ~15 min and now they are 20 and 30 mins respectively.