Metro North to Astoria?

[RhythmNBlues]

Metro North will be making 4 new stops in the Bronx. We all know this, ok?

 

So, if it has to run through Queens via Hell's Gate tracks, why not make a connection in Astoria? Queens can now go directly to the Bronx and Westchester!

 

A win-win for the MTA and its riders!

[bobtehpanda]

Metro North will be making 4 new stops in the Bronx. We all know this, ok?

 

So, if it has to run through Queens via Hell's Gate tracks, why not make a connection in Astoria? Queens can now go directly to the Bronx and Westchester!

 

A win-win for the MTA and its riders!

 

The Hell Gate viaduct is way too high for any such station to be built. The entire point of the PSA project is that it is as cheap as possible, and adding an Astoria station would dunk that right out the window, because you'd need to build access structures, probably eminent domain a few places to make room for a street level entrance, etc.

[Tokkemon]

I could see a station built above 30th Street though there would be significant engineering challenges given how high it is. You'd need a crap-ton of escalators and elevators. But, if it were connected to the subway platform below, from a transit planning perspective, its a great idea.

[46Dover]

The Hell Gate viaduct is way too high for any such station to be built. The entire point of the PSA project is that it is as cheap as possible, and adding an Astoria station would dunk that right out the window, because you'd need to build access structures, probably eminent domain a few places to make room for a street level entrance, etc.

And I bet the one location anyone would target would be right over the Ditmars Blvd

[Via Garibaldi 8]

If there is such a great chance of "high ridership" create an express bus service from Manhattan to the Bronx that could connect with a Metro-North station if need be and then you can add a station later on.  I'm personally not in favor of all of these new Metro-North stations.  We need more service at our current stations.  The trains are too damn crowded as it is for what they are charging, and Metro-North is SHORT on cars.  The other night on the Harlem line the train was so packed coming from Westchester that I could've even get off at Woodlawn.  Ridiculous.  People were packed in the aisles like sardines.

[LIRR 154]

Who exactly is riding to the Bronx and Westchester from Queens. The money that would be needed for this would be huge. Not only that but the MTA is going to waste money on a stop in Astoria when you have 2 M60 bus stops there and they take you to 125st nonstop from Astoria.

[QM1to6Ave]

Who exactly is riding to the Bronx and Westchester from Queens. The money that would be needed for this would be huge. Not only that but the MTA is going to waste money on a stop in Astoria when you have 2 M60 bus stops there and they take you to 125st nonstop from Astoria.

 

I know a good amount of people that commute to the Bronx or Westchester for work from Queens, and vice-versa, and they all drive.

 

Like VG8, I'm in favor of an express bus route between Queens and the Bronx (and between Brooklyn and Queens, but that's a different story). It's a whole lot cheaper than new Metro North stations and would get good ridership if planned out with input from these commuters.   

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I know a good amount of people that commute to the Bronx or Westchester for work from Queens, and vice-versa, and they all drive.

 

Like VG8, I'm in favor of an express bus route between Queens and the Bronx (and between Brooklyn and Queens, but that's a different story). It's a whole lot cheaper than new Metro North stations and would get good ridership if planned out with input from these commuters.   

I wonder if the has given this any thought... I mean I go from Riverdale to Brooklyn via the express bus and basically transfer in Manhattan, and doing that trip is simply not feasible any other way aside from driving.  Too many transfers and too much of a hassle. It's actually much nicer that way too (via the express bus).  I stop off in Manhattan and relax at one of my Euro cafés, grab a macchiato or an espresso and a pastry and then catch the next express bus.

 

When coming from Riverdale and going to Queens I do the same thing... BxM1 or BxM2 to the QM5 or QM6 depending on where I'm going.

[bobtehpanda]

If there is such a great chance of "high ridership" create an express bus service from Manhattan to the Bronx that could connect with a Metro-North station if need be and then you can add a station later on.  I'm personally not in favor of all of these new Metro-North stations.  We need more service at our current stations.  The trains are too damn crowded as it is for what they are charging, and Metro-North is SHORT on cars.  The other night on the Harlem line the train was so packed coming from Westchester that I could've even get off at Woodlawn.  Ridiculous.  People were packed in the aisles like sardines.

 

Another poster somewhere mentioned that Metro-North was planning to buy new diesel-electric dual mode locomotives. If that were to be the case, potentially the new service via Co-op and Queens to Penn would be operated by new through trains from the Danbury or Waterbury branches, rather than detracting from existing services. Also keep in mind that service to these Bronx stations isn't possible until East Side Access is over, so we have at least another decade to buy more cars and prep for the future.

 

Part of the problem with boosting peak services is that you've got three lines basically funneling into one. Opening up another access point will boost service, at least in Westchester and CT initially.

 

I wonder if the has given this any thought... I mean I go from Riverdale to Brooklyn via the express bus and basically transfer in Manhattan, and doing that trip is simply not feasible any other way aside from driving.  Too many transfers and too much of a hassle. It's actually much nicer that way too (via the express bus).  I stop off in Manhattan and relax at one of my Euro cafés, grab a macchiato or an espresso and a pastry and then catch the next express bus.

 

When coming from Riverdale and going to Queens I do the same thing... BxM1 or BxM2 to the QM5 or QM6 depending on where I'm going.

 

The issue is that unlike Manhattan, which has fairly clear dominant business districts with large amounts of moneyed potential riders, ridership generators in the Bronx and Queens are significantly smaller in scale, more spread out, less focused towards peak demand, and significantly less upper class or middle-upper class ridership. This doesn't lend itself easily to the current express bus model (make a lot of stops in the suburbs, skip the middle, make a lot of stops in a business district and charge over twice as much), and limited bus service works a lot better in this regard; the Q44 is currently one of the busiest bus routes in the city, and would be busier if there were things like dedicated lanes or traffic priority along the route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Another poster somewhere mentioned that Metro-North was planning to buy new diesel-electric dual mode locomotives. If that were to be the case, potentially the new service via Co-op and Queens to Penn would be operated by new through trains from the Danbury or Waterbury branches, rather than detracting from existing services. Also keep in mind that service to these Bronx stations isn't possible until East Side Access is over, so we have at least another decade to buy more cars and prep for the future.

 

Part of the problem with boosting peak services is that you've got three lines basically funneling into one. Opening up another access point will boost service, at least in Westchester and CT initially.

 

 

The issue is that unlike Manhattan, which has fairly clear dominant business districts with large amounts of moneyed potential riders, ridership generators in the Bronx and Queens are significantly smaller in scale, more spread out, less focused towards peak demand, and significantly less upper class or middle-upper class ridership. This doesn't lend itself easily to the current express bus model (make a lot of stops in the suburbs, skip the middle, make a lot of stops in a business district and charge over twice as much), and limited bus service works a lot better in this regard; the Q44 is currently one of the busiest bus routes in the city, and would be busier if there were things like dedicated lanes or traffic priority along the route.

Well this we all know... Those people still have to make trips though and if there isn't enough ridership for express bus service which carries 57 passengers per seated load, then I see no point in lobbying for Metro-North in Astoria because that means that there isn't enough demand to charge a premium fare.  The also doesn't advertise express bus service in some areas (which it should), but I was thinking about this the other day oddly enough on the express bus coming home to Riverdale.  I mean Metro-North gets pretty good ridership for its intermediate parts (i.e. Westchester to the Bronx, and vice versa), but the price is an intermediate price, which I believe should be raised slightly.   $3.00 is too low for a premium service.

[LIRR 154]

I know a good amount of people that commute to the Bronx or Westchester for work from Queens, and vice-versa, and they all drive.

 

Like VG8, I'm in favor of an express bus route between Queens and the Bronx (and between Brooklyn and Queens, but that's a different story). It's a whole lot cheaper than new Metro North stations and would get good ridership if planned out with input from these commuters.

 

Good amount doesn't equal demand. Demand is like when pols get involved and have press conferences for service like that station that is being rebuilt in Elmhurst. MTA is all about a continuous stream of revenue. Manhattan supports that, a few people here and there in Astoria to the Bronx or Westchester does not.

[QM1to6Ave]

Good amount doesn't equal demand. Demand is like when pols get involved and have press conferences for service like that station that is being rebuilt in Elmhurst. MTA is all about a continuous stream of revenue. Manhattan supports that, a few people here and there in Astoria to the Bronx or Westchester does not.

 

That is unforunately true. I do truly believe that they could at least get a few full buses at peak hours (or as full as some of the other less popular EXP routes), but there's no organized voice demanding the service. Maybe one day...

[QM1to6Ave]

I wonder if the has given this any thought... I mean I go from Riverdale to Brooklyn via the express bus and basically transfer in Manhattan, and doing that trip is simply not feasible any other way aside from driving.  Too many transfers and too much of a hassle. It's actually much nicer that way too (via the express bus).  I stop off in Manhattan and relax at one of my Euro cafés, grab a macchiato or an espresso and a pastry and then catch the next express bus.

 

When coming from Riverdale and going to Queens I do the same thing... BxM1 or BxM2 to the QM5 or QM6 depending on where I'm going.

 

I've written emails to the MTA with this idea but got no response. As Bobtehpanda said, it is a bit more difficult to figure out where the demand would be, but I think an EXP route that mirrors the Q44 might work pretty well. 

 

I also do the Queens exp-->Manhattan-->Bronx exp thing on rare occasion, but even that way takes so much longer than driving that I usually end up driving. Though I will say that taking the 2 express buses gives me a lot of solid time to get work done

[bobtehpanda]

Well this we all know... Those people still have to make trips though and if there isn't enough ridership for express bus service which carries 57 passengers per seated load, then I see no point in lobbying for Metro-North in Astoria because that means that there isn't enough demand to charge a premium fare.  The also doesn't advertise express bus service in some areas (which it should), but I was thinking about this the other day oddly enough on the express bus coming home to Riverdale.  I mean Metro-North gets pretty good ridership for its intermediate parts (i.e. Westchester to the Bronx, and vice versa), but the price is an intermediate price, which I believe should be raised slightly.   $3.00 is too low for a premium service.

 

It's not, but Penn Access has always been more about reverse-commutes for the Eastern Bronx on the cheap, and an Astoria station would be the exact opposite of cheap, so there's not really a point. It would also probably not be very time competitive against, say, taking the into Lex/59 for Manhattan-bound commuters anyway.

[qjtransitmaster]

I know a good amount of people that commute to the Bronx or Westchester for work from Queens, and vice-versa, and they all drive.

 

Like VG8, I'm in favor of an express bus route between Queens and the Bronx (and between Brooklyn and Queens, but that's a different story). It's a whole lot cheaper than new Metro North stations and would get good ridership if planned out with input from these commuters.

 

 while I do agree that some faster buses between the Bronx & Queens would help that would increase demand for new metro north stations in eastern Bronx as people would want to have connection s to CT via metro north without going to Manhattan. In fact it would pressure the LIRR to improve service in eastern Queen s and modify stopping patterns. No a $6 fare for Bronx to Queen s even if it is express is absurdity. 

Another poster somewhere mentioned that Metro-North was planning to buy new diesel-electric dual mode locomotives. If that were to be the case, potentially the new service via Co-op and Queens to Penn would be operated by new through trains from the Danbury or Waterbury branches, rather than detracting from existing services. Also keep in mind that service to these Bronx stations isn't possible until East Side Access is over, so we have at least another decade to buy more cars and prep for the future.

 

Part of the problem with boosting peak services is that you've got three lines basically funneling into one. Opening up another access point will boost service, at least in Westchester and CT initially.

 

 

 

The issue is that unlike Manhattan, which has fairly clear dominant business districts with large amounts of moneyed potential riders, ridership generators in the Bronx and Queens are significantly smaller in scale, more spread out, less focused towards peak demand, and significantly less upper class or middle-upper class ridership. This doesn't lend itself easily to the current express bus model (make a lot of stops in the suburbs, skip the middle, make a lot of stops in a business district and charge over twice as much), and limited bus service works a lot better in this regard; the Q44 is currently one of the busiest bus routes in the city, and would be busier if there were things like dedicated lanes or traffic priority along the route.

more LTDs would help too Q44 being the only frequent ltd between Bronx & Queen s is absurdity.  

Well this we all know... Those people still have to make trips though and if there isn't enough ridership for express bus service which carries 57 passengers per seated load, then I see no point in lobbying for Metro-North in Astoria because that means that there isn't enough demand to charge a premium fare.  The also doesn't advertise express bus service in some areas (which it should), but I was thinking about this the other day oddly enough on the express bus coming home to Riverdale.  I mean Metro-North gets pretty good ridership for its intermediate parts (i.e. Westchester to the Bronx, and vice versa), but the price is an intermediate price, which I believe should be raised slightly.   $3.00 is too low for a premium service.

dude the riders on metro-north going to Westchester from the Bronx are broke the fare is low for a reason it is a railroad that does not focus on commuters alone more travel during off peak hours and reverse peak they aren't making Manhattan money the metro north ain't price gougers like the LIRR tell the Bronx folk that they will have your head.

[qjtransitmaster]

I've written emails to the MTA with this idea but got no response. As Bobtehpanda said, it is a bit more difficult to figure out where the demand would be, but I think an EXP route that mirrors the Q44 might work pretty well. 

 

I also do the Queens exp-->Manhattan-->Bronx exp thing on rare occasion, but even that way takes so much longer than driving that I usually end up driving. Though I will say that taking the 2 express buses gives me a lot of solid time to get work done

interesting what are your ideas for express service between Bronx & Queens ? I had a few myself one including an extended Q50 To link with more subway lines to indirectly speed up travel between Brooklyn and Queens and the Bronx in a sense especially for people from areas beyond flushing. This would require additional Q50 service & in one instance boosted LIRR service to Queens village and SE Queens stations to prepare for another LTD bus and in your sense "express" to link eastern Bronx with Queens and in a way Brooklyn and even long island indirectly. However based on feedback I do understand that some parts of Queens won't lend well to a one seat ride to Bronx. But in terms of metro-north and ESA it would be a wait and see type of deal before such a service can arise many things need to be done first to make such a bus feasible. Pm me your ideas I am intrigued.

[qjtransitmaster]

That is unforunately true. I do truly believe that they could at least get a few full buses at peak hours (or as full as some of the other less popular EXP routes), but there's no organized voice demanding the service. Maybe one day...

the M60 SBS in a sense provides this service indirectly since it links with the MNRR that goes to the Bronx & Westchester and the M60 SBS links to all subways that go to the Bronx. I started noticing that many SBS lines have a connection to the commuter rail except S79. B44 has LIRR and many subways to a degree, Bx41&12 to mnrr m34 to NJT& LIRR and like bobtehpanda says Q44 can use some help.

[RhythmNBlues]

the M60 SBS in a sense provides this service indirectly since it links with the MNRR that goes to the Bronx & Westchester and the M60 SBS links to all subways that go to the Bronx. I started noticing that many SBS lines have a connection to the commuter rail except S79. B44 has LIRR and many subways to a degree, Bx41&12 to mnrr m34 to NJT& LIRR and like bobtehpanda says Q44 can use some help.

 

All these buses doesn't account for the amount of street traffic involved. Trains in general don't encounter such problems, even during rain and snow. It's much better to have metro north in Queens, and would provide many more options for people to branch out in other areas of Westchester and Connecticut for employment. 

 

A win-win for the MTA and its riders!!

[bobtehpanda]

All these buses doesn't account for the amount of street traffic involved. Trains in general don't encounter such problems, even during rain and snow. It's much better to have metro north in Queens, and would provide many more options for people to branch out in other areas of Westchester and Connecticut for employment. 

 

A win-win for the MTA and its riders!!

 

Costs: $$$$$

Benefits: $

Relevance to the rest of the project: 1 out of 10

[RhythmNBlues]

Costs: $$$$$

Benefits: $

Relevance to the rest of the project: 1 out of 10

 

1 out of 10. 

 

Go ask 1 out of 10 New Yorkers and see how important it is then...

 

Do you really think that people in Astoria wouldn't love to have a metro north, rather than travelling to Grand Central Station.

 

Can't tell me it's because people there don't work in Westchester or Connecticut. Folks don't want to drive that far, but I bet they would sure as hell take the train. If it's not relevant, then it's worth a try, right?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 out of 10. 

 

Go ask 1 out of 10 New Yorkers and see how important it is then...

 

Do you really think that people in Astoria wouldn't love to have a metro north, rather than travelling to Grand Central Station.

 

Can't tell me it's because people there don't work in Westchester or Connecticut. Folks don't want to drive that far, but I bet they would sure as hell take the train. If it's not relevant, then it's worth a try, right?

No, it's not worth a try.

 

If the project is too expensive, it would just be left unfinished for the future. All that money wasted could have gone to something better.

[RhythmNBlues]

Right.

 

As if our hard earned taxes are spent properly already.

 

Some people have some nerve....

 

Astoria needs the train line there. Don't give me the elevation garbage. Just build a new elevator and two-level staircase! All these silly things you call a "problem". Or, maybe you work for the MTA?

[FritzSpitz]

The demand just isn't there. And assuming that the demand would be there if the project is built is naive and the wrong way to do things of this magnitude.

[RhythmNBlues]

The demand just isn't there. And assuming that the demand would be there if the project is built is naive and the wrong way to do things of this magnitude.

 

I take it you don't live in Astoria or Queens for that matter.

 

It's an important need for ALL of the Queens residents. 

 

Needs to happen. Make it happen.

 

Do you know what a worker for Steve Jobs was told when he had a 24 hour deadline to make something impossible happen? This worker needed to make a prototype for 5 items, in preparation for an upcoming presentation. He was able to create 4 of the 5 and told Jobs that this was just physically impossible. Jobs replied, "It's important. Let's get it done." That was the Apple Ipod which changed the world.

[FritzSpitz]

Do you know what a worker for Steve Jobs was told when he had a 24 hour deadline to make something impossible happen? This worker needed to make a prototype for 5 items, in preparation for an upcoming presentation. He was able to create 4 of the 5 and told Jobs that this was just physically impossible. Jobs replied, "It's important. Let's get it done." That was the Apple Ipod which changed the world.

This is a multimillion dollar public service pipe dream funded by the taxpayer. Apples and oranges.