Daniel The Cool Posted January 30, 2015 Share #26 Posted January 30, 2015 Oh lord. I didn't want to give my two cents on here but screw it. Honestly like Lance and a few people have said on here, The full transit shutdown was a smart move because the way the storm was coming, it looked so bad. The 2010 Blizzard showed how much disaster and stuff went down when they didn't shut down the open cuts and looked what happened. People got stuck, you had T/Os who's been stuck on the train as long as two days and they have family to you know. Yes I was out of town but I had relatives and friends who got stuck in that whole mess but not the point. When that blizzard happened, there was lawsuits because of it. Now when they actually shutdown transit to avoid a repeat of 2010, you guys and people in general are still complaining like no one can even do the stuff to save people from a past incident without complaining. Honestly I bet most of the people who complained about the full transit shutdown was pissed off because they couldn't fan nor get any rare stuff at all. Yes some of you guys need to look at the bigger picture of these before going crazy about how they shouldn't do stuff. With that said that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #27 Posted January 30, 2015 Oh lord. I didn't want to give my two cents on here but screw it. Honestly like Lance and a few people have said on here, The full transit shutdown was a smart move because the way the storm was coming, it looked so bad. The 2010 Blizzard showed how much disaster and stuff went down when they didn't shut down the open cuts and looked what happened. People got stuck, you had T/Os who's been stuck on the train as long as two days and they have family to you know. Yes I was out of town but I had relatives and friends who got stuck in that whole mess but not the point. When that blizzard happened, there was lawsuits because of it. Now when they actually shutdown transit to avoid a repeat of 2010, you guys and people in general are still complaining like no one can even do the stuff to save people from a past incident without complaining. Honestly I bet most of the people who complained about the full transit shutdown was pissed off because they couldn't fan nor get any rare stuff at all. Yes some of you guys need to look at the bigger picture of these before going crazy about how they shouldn't do stuff. With that said that is all. While Cuomo was right in shutting down the system for Irene and Sandy in 2011 and '12 respectively, this time Cuomo was proven wrong. 2010 was an abnormality caused by a slew of factors that were mostly directly related to the Christmas Holiday falling right before that storm and in many cases, a combination of family/religious commitments people could not get so easily out of then without being lambasted by family/religious leaders (but would be able to now) and lack in some cases of easily available media until late Christmas night due to the holiday (since adjusted to avoid a repeat of that) played into what happened and being ill-prepared. There were several sections, including the Open Cuts and other sections that SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED DOWN MUCH EARLIER that were not (but that I would have ordered closed) where the lawsuits came out of. We actually had ANOTHER major snowstorm a month after the Christmas fiasco in early 2011 and the system operated just fine then. The created a "Plan V" specifically to handle these conditions, which they would have just fine without interference. The underground portions were specifically built to handle this type of storm and keep people moving even in the worst weather conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted January 30, 2015 Share #28 Posted January 30, 2015 That is specifically why I used "if" as it based on past history and a familiarity with politics as a whole. I never said it actually happened, but if you string the timelines together it shows a likely series of events and the TIMING of such events suggest that (which many people do in fact realize even if it looks like it's as fact). That's why I also said "it would not surprise me" if we found out Cuomo got scolded behind closed doors based on past history as we likely won't find out, but I wouldn't put it past someone leaking such out if it happened. If someone who was stranded had died or was hospitalized and it was proven to be because they could not get off work until after the subways were shut down, could not get a place to stay closeby and had to walk home a considerable distance in this (possibly freezing to death), you would have had lawsuits the other way and the Cuomo might have been even sued personally over this. The publicity from THAT, never mind PO'ing Wall Street would have been just as bad as if someone suing for being stuck on a train or whatever else happened. I'll just ask everyone to read and re-read that last paragraph. Let it sink in. The warning was given in what I consider sufficient time for those who could to make it home or to find shelter. As RailRunRob pointed out in another post there were people like RNs, emergency service people, and law enforcement folk, who typically remain in place during emergencies.. Believe it or not railroad and subway employees remain on the job, too. Perhaps you could enlighten me and a few others whom these other people are/were that could possibly be stranded that night. Common sense says shelter in place. That holds for NY or NC. I was out in Suffolk County, Long Island from the first forecast 'til right now. Except for the 2 police officers in the family, both postal workers, a bus operator, and 2 DOE employees were able to make it home that day by subway and LIRR. Everyone made it safely because they heeded the warnings when they were given. I'm still trying to find out who would be stranded and why they would be stranded if they heeded the warnings. It's my contention that if someone was stranded somewhere even if underground service was NOT shut down and they were hospitalized or died because they froze to death while trying to walk in a storm shame on them. I'm still out here in Suffolk county and no one is trying to walk from the LIRR station the one mile to my neighborhood. That last bus left 3 hours ago. That's what people with common sense and 22 inches of snow on the ground normally do. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2015 Share #29 Posted January 30, 2015 It would be extremely bad PR for his boss. Cuomo has the final say on not only the transit system, but who is actually running it. I don't know about you, but to most people "job security" is usually a good enough reason to avoid publicly going against the person who pays you. Well the point is Prendergast didn't have to recommend anything given that Cuomo has the last say. Cuomo is taking all of the heat anyway, so I don't see what point you're making about it being "bad PR for his boss". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #30 Posted January 30, 2015 I'll just ask everyone to read and re-read that last paragraph. Let it sink in. The warning was given in what I consider sufficient time for those who could to make it home or to find shelter. As RailRunRob pointed out in another post there were people like RNs, emergency service people, and law enforcement folk, who typically remain in place during emergencies.. Believe it or not railroad and subway employees remain on the job, too. Perhaps you could enlighten me and a few others whom these other people are/were that could possibly be stranded that night. Common sense says shelter in place. That holds for NY or NC. I was out in Suffolk County, Long Island from the first forecast 'til right now. Except for the 2 police officers in the family, both postal workers, a bus operator, and 2 DOE employees were able to make it home that day by subway and LIRR. Everyone made it safely because they heeded the warnings when they were given. I'm still trying to find out who would be stranded and why they would be stranded if they heeded the warnings. It's my contention that if someone was stranded somewhere even if underground service was NOT shut down and they were hospitalized or died because they froze to death while trying to walk in a storm shame on them. I'm still out here in Suffolk county and no one is trying to walk from the LIRR station the one mile to my neighborhood. That last bus left 3 hours ago. That's what people with common sense and 22 inches of snow on the ground normally do. Carry onI actually agree wot I actually agree with you on this. While people SHOULD heed warnings and stay-in-place, not everyone is in a position to do that, however. There were quite a few accounts in various places of people who had gone to work for 4:00 PM-Midnight shifts that were already at work and by the time the announcement came could not get up an leave until their shifts ended, and some could not stay at work overnight or find a place closeby to stay. In some cases, there were people who had to get into work who had to walk 30+ blocks or more in a blizzard to get to work because they were EXPECTED to be there and a subway shutdown was considered no excuse not to be. Those were among the many who were PO'ed over this. And that doesn't even take Wall Street into account. As said upthread, given how Wall Street got so PO'ed over this and all the heat the has been getting (as well as Cuomo), it may take where the is forced to keep the underground part of the subways open through a snowstorm (an Irene or Sandy situation proved right to shut down in because flooding is a real threat to the system itself) with it made clear they are doing so appease Wall Street and putting the onerous on Wall Street if anything goes wrong and a catastrophe happens before views on this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrivera Posted January 30, 2015 Share #31 Posted January 30, 2015 My only gripe is the technicality that the shut down wasn't a total shut down. I live close enough to an elevated line while having SubwayTime on my computer, and I did indeed hear the rumble of the trains whenever "0min" was displayed. You either shut it down or you didn't. They didn't technically shut down, what they did was more like closing the system off to the public. That's why the trains were able to "come back online" so quickly. No one except essential public service employees should have been outside knowing a travel ban was to be in place and that we were risking a 2+ foot snowstorm that ended up missing NYC. Although that travel ban should have been rescinded a little earlier in the city, that's just the way that government works now, they protect people from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted January 30, 2015 Share #32 Posted January 30, 2015 Well the point is Prendergast didn't have to recommend anything given that Cuomo has the last say. Cuomo is taking all of the heat anyway, so I don't see what point you're making about it being "bad PR for his boss". Prendergast said, publicly, that he recommended it, but lying to a public press corps isn't a punishable crime, and if his boss is being questioned in a negative way, it's not impossible for him to try and cover for his boss by lying about whether or not he recommended it, because the two options other than :Yes, I recommended it" can be twisted to negatively impact Cuomo. Saying "No" looks downright awful, and saying "I didn't recommend anything" implies that Cuomo didn't even bother asking the person who runs the system on a day-to-day basis, which wouldn't be very surprising given the surprise the MTA and PANYNJ showed when questioned about the LGA AirTrain proposal, and the fact that de Blasio wasn't notified of it til a few minutes before everyone else got to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2015 Share #33 Posted January 30, 2015 Prendergast said, publicly, that he recommended it, but lying to a public press corps isn't a punishable crime, and if his boss is being questioned in a negative way, it's not impossible for him to try and cover for his boss by lying about whether or not he recommended it, because the two options other than :Yes, I recommended it" can be twisted to negatively impact Cuomo. Saying "No" looks downright awful, and saying "I didn't recommend anything" implies that Cuomo didn't even bother asking the person who runs the system on a day-to-day basis, which wouldn't be very surprising given the surprise the MTA and PANYNJ showed when questioned about the LGA AirTrain proposal, and the fact that de Blasio wasn't notified of it til a few minutes before everyone else got to know. Yes, try, but there's no proof that he didn't recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share #34 Posted January 30, 2015 Yes, try, but there's no proof that he didn't recommend it. And Prendegast may very well HAVE recommended to Cuomo shutting down the system, but all earlier indications were Cuomo ordering it and we saw on CNBC what David Faber did Tuesday morning. Given it wasn't until late Wednesday in many cases we were hearing that it was actually Prendegast who recommended it and was taking the heat suggests (fair or not) that all the blowback Cuomo was getting may have even gotten to the point where Democratic Party officials might have privately scolded Cuomo over this because they (if so, privately) are very concerned the fallout could affect them in 2016. Politics should NEVER play into this, but sadly, I suspect this shutdown may have inadvertantly exposed how deep politics are now and how cutthroat they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2015 Share #35 Posted January 30, 2015 And Prendegast may very well HAVE recommended to Cuomo shutting down the system, but all earlier indications were Cuomo ordering it and we saw on CNBC what David Faber did Tuesday morning. Given it wasn't until late Wednesday in many cases we were hearing that it was actually Prendegast who recommended it and was taking the heat suggests (fair or not) that all the blowback Cuomo was getting may have even gotten to the point where Democratic Party officials might have privately scolded Cuomo over this because they (if so, privately) are very concerned the fallout could affect them in 2016. Politics should NEVER play into this, but sadly, I suspect this shutdown may have inadvertantly exposed how deep politics are now and how cutthroat they really are. LOL... You really are a trip you know... You started a whole thread about this, the thread was closed, and you just keep making the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over.... I got your point the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeesPwnMets Posted January 31, 2015 Share #36 Posted January 31, 2015 LOL... You really are a trip you know... You started a whole thread about this, the thread was closed, and you just keep making the same argument over and over and over and over and over and over.... I got your point the first time. ...And Wally wonders why he has no credibility on this forum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel The Cool Posted January 31, 2015 Share #37 Posted January 31, 2015 My only gripe is the technicality that the shut down wasn't a total shut down. I live close enough to an elevated line while having SubwayTime on my computer, and I did indeed hear the rumble of the trains whenever "0min" was displayed. You either shut it down or you didn't. They didn't technically shut down, what they did was more like closing the system off to the public. That's why the trains were able to "come back online" so quickly. No one except essential public service employees should have been outside knowing a travel ban was to be in place and that we were risking a 2+ foot snowstorm that ended up missing NYC. Although that travel ban should have been rescinded a little earlier in the city, that's just the way that government works now, they protect people from themselves. SubwayTime doesn't mean crap. I had friends who worked down there that night. The only people who rode it when it was shutdown was workers trying to get to their assign locations and some of the homeless people. It was shutdown really. I don't know why you guys insist SubwayTime says otherwise but forget to realize that app has errors as well. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 31, 2015 Share #38 Posted January 31, 2015 Yes, try, but there's no proof that he didn't recommend it. Prendergast did not want to shut the system down. He said this publicly the same day. Cuomo overrode everybody and dropped it on the mayor's office and the MTA 15 minutes before it was announced. It was terrible policy-maker and a generally bad decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 31, 2015 Share #39 Posted January 31, 2015 Prendergast did not want to shut the system down. He said this publicly the same day. Cuomo overrode everybody and dropped it on the mayor's office and the MTA 15 minutes before it was announced. It was terrible policy-maker and a generally bad decision. Well no one wanted to shut it down quite frankly. It's not as if it was shut down just because. It was shut down out of safety concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted January 31, 2015 Share #40 Posted January 31, 2015 Well no one wanted to shut it down quite frankly. It's not as if it was shut down just because. It was shut down out of safety concerns. Which were ignorant and held only by Cuomo and nobody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share #41 Posted January 31, 2015 Which were ignorant and held only by Cuomo and nobody else. And if so, in my opinion led to Cuomo getting a verbal scolding by Democratic Party leaders because it sure seems the tunes changed after if that did happen and if so why Prendegast was saying it was his decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javier Posted January 31, 2015 Share #42 Posted January 31, 2015 And if so, in my opinion led to Cuomo getting a verbal scolding by Democratic Party leaders because it sure seems the tunes changed after if that did happen and if so why Prendegast was saying it was his decision. Oh lord here we go again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #43 Posted February 1, 2015 Which were ignorant and held only by Cuomo and nobody else. So you're saying his decision to protect thousands of lives was ignorant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 1, 2015 Share #44 Posted February 1, 2015 So you're saying his decision to protect thousands of lives was ignorant? When the hell have "thousands of lives" been in danger due to subways running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #45 Posted February 1, 2015 When the hell have "thousands of lives" been in danger due to subways running? How about just a few years ago when people were stranded on the subways for HOURS due to that big snow storm.... I guess we have amnesia now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted February 1, 2015 Share #46 Posted February 1, 2015 Quoting Ben from SecondAvenueSagas.com: The MTA didn’t see this coming. After all, the city had never in 110 years closed the subways due to snow, and in fact, early on Monday, Tom Prendergast basically said that a shutdown was unnecessary. As he noted, most of the subway network is underground, and it doesn’t snow underground. A great irony in the governor’s move is that the subway itself arose from the paralysis of the Blizzard of 1888. New Yorkers needed a way to get around in a snow storm, and the subways were the perfect antidote to surface congestion. Now, after two hurricanes during which it made sense to stop subway service due to serious flooding concerns, the governor has decided that favorable headlines trump urban life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 1, 2015 Share #47 Posted February 1, 2015 How about just a few years ago when people were stranded on the subways for HOURS due to that big snow storm.... I guess we have amnesia now... There's a difference between "a few thousand" and a train that only had a few hundred people on it. To put this in context, that many people die in car crashes every week in the United States. All this scaremongering helps no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallyhorse Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share #48 Posted February 1, 2015 How about just a few years ago when people were stranded on the subways for HOURS due to that big snow storm.... I guess we have amnesia now... Those were sections that should NOT have been open in the first place. I would have ordered those sections closed well before anything like that happened. The Christmas 2010 Blizzard was an abnormality caused by a myriad of factors that would be very unlikely to happen now due to changes implemented on numerous parts since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 1, 2015 Share #49 Posted February 1, 2015 There's a difference between "a few thousand" and a train that only had a few hundred people on it. To put this in context, that many people die in car crashes every week in the United States. All this scaremongering helps no one. lol... Scaremongering... Ok so tell me how in the hell people were supposed to be getting home then with a travel ban and buses being pulled if they lived in areas with outside subways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted February 1, 2015 Share #50 Posted February 1, 2015 lol... Scaremongering... Ok so tell me how in the hell people were supposed to be getting home then with a travel ban and buses being pulled if they lived in areas with outside subways? They weren't? The emergency service plan specifically calls for running service on sections not affected by snows, which is still a good portion of the subway - all four boroughs with subway service have at least one totally underground subway line. People would've still been stranded, but less people would've been stranded (and if you think places like Manhattan were going to get buried and paralyzed by 22 hypothetical feet of snow without anyone trying to clear it as quickly as possible, I have a bridge to sell you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.