news A fair request of NYC to help build MTA

[East New York]

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo with MTA chairman Thomas Prendergast at the Whitehall Street subway station on Sept. 14, 2014. Photo Credit: Charles Eckert

 

New York City is thriving again. New businesses, new construction and new residents have created an economic boom -- and generated billions in unexpected revenue for the city budget.

None of this new development would be possible without the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which runs the subways, buses and commuter trains. And as the MTA tries to fund billions in mass transit investments over the next five years, it's only fair for New York City's government to make a reasonable contribution to enhance and expand the mass transit network.

Read more here

 

[MHV9218]

As long as the state has control of the MTA, it should pay for it. The city should only pay the larger tab if it is given control of the system. 

[East New York]

As long as the state has control of the MTA, it should pay for it. The city should only pay the larger tab if it is given control of the system. 

 

I think the city should have been in charge of the system long ago. Only MNR and LIRR venture a distance outside of the city limits. The question is, if the city did run the MTA, could they match the amount of funds the state provides?

[MHV9218]

I think the city should have been in charge of the system long ago. Only MNR and LIRR venture a distance outside of the city limits. The question is, if the city did run the MTA, could they match the amount of funds the state provides?

 

I agree--and way back when, they were! I think they could come closest if the tolls from the bridges the MTA operates went to the city, but I don't know if the state would ever give those up. Without those tolls and other economic support, it's hard to imagine they could. 

[46Dover]

I agree--and way back when, they were! I think they could come closest if the tolls from the bridges the MTA operates went to the city, but I don't know if the state would ever give those up. Without those tolls and other economic support, it's hard to imagine they could.

Heck, the subways even had their own Transit Police....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The city should not be in charge of the unless they are going to provide adequate funding to do so. I don't think they want to be either since they don't have the funding to do so at the moment.

[bobtehpanda]

I agree--and way back when, they were! I think they could come closest if the tolls from the bridges the MTA operates went to the city, but I don't know if the state would ever give those up. Without those tolls and other economic support, it's hard to imagine they could. 

 

So long as the only way out of Long Island by car is the City, giving up state control of the bridges is not going to be politically possible.

[LTA1992]

As long as the state has control of the MTA, it should pay for it. The city should only pay the larger tab if it is given control of the system. 

But when it comes to the transit system itself, that needs to be in control of the City. This capital program exists to keep it and the railroads in good order. With most of it going to the NYC transit network, the City should definitely be paying more. Especially considering that more than half this city's population relies on it daily.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I think the city should have been in charge of the system long ago. Only MNR and LIRR venture a distance outside of the city limits. The question is, if the city did run the MTA, could they match the amount of funds the state provides?

Umm, do you remember the 70's? That decade where the city gave up on iself? There's gonna be limitations to this action.

 

The city should not be in charge of the unless they are going to provide adequate funding to do so. I don't think they want to be either since they don't have the funding to do so at the moment.

Exactly. Let the state pay the capital program or the federal government.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But when it comes to the transit system itself, that needs to be in control of the City. This capital program exists to keep it and the railroads in good order. With most of it going to the NYC transit network, the City should definitely be paying more. Especially considering that more than half this city's population relies on it daily.

The question is what is considered "good order"?

[LTA1992]

I don't remember the system coming to a near state of collapse in recent years, do you? There have been way worse days with January of 1981 being the final straw. Please think about that. Because you complain about almost everything about transit in this city.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't remember the system coming to a near state of collapse in recent years, do you? There have been way worse days with January of 1981 being the final straw. Please think about that. Because you complain about almost everything about transit in this city.

Heh, I sure as hell do... Unlike you, I don't live in land...

[Fresh Pond]

Heh, I sure as hell do... Unlike you, I don't live in land...

Do enlighten us then. I may not have been alive during the low point in the history, but I'm pretty sure we've came a long way from entire consists of trains completely graffiti'd up, derailments and crashes happening multiple times a week, motors falling out of cars, and people just straight reluctant of taking the subway in general.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Do enlighten us then. I may not have been alive during the low point in the history, but I'm pretty sure we've came a long way from entire consists of trains completely graffiti'd up, derailments and crashes happening multiple times a week, motors falling out of cars, and people just straight reluctant of taking the subway in general.

Hmm... Let's see... Several Metro-North derailments, subway almost completely knocked out by Sandy, deteriorating bus and subway service, with steady declines in ridership on buses overall.  Several fare increases with very little to show for it.  Rising homelessness on the subways, etc., etc. Shall I continue to enlighten you?

[Fresh Pond]

Hmm... Let's see... Several Metro-North derailments, subway almost completely knocked out by Sandy, deteriorating bus and subway service, with steady declines in ridership on buses overall. Several fare increases with very little to show for it. Rising homelessness on the subways, etc., etc. Shall I continue to enlighten you?

How can you blame the for Sandy?

 

Service is a lot better now (the highest its ever been) compared to back then, so for you to say service is bad now is just a load of nonsense.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

How can you blame the for Sandy?

Service is a lot better now (the highest its ever been) compared to back then, so for you to say service is bad now is just a load of nonsense.

Really? Ridership on buses continues to decline due to horrendous service (MIA or late buses), and even the admits that subway service in terms of on-time performance has worsened. I think you need to re-check your facts big time. As for Sandy, yes, I blame the because the subway system is beyond fragile as shown by how many trains were knocked out.

[LTA1992]

Hmm... Let's see... Several Metro-North derailments, subway almost completely knocked out by Sandy, deteriorating bus and subway service, with steady declines in ridership on buses overall.  Several fare increases with very little to show for it.  Rising homelessness on the subways, etc., etc. Shall I continue to enlighten you?

Several over the course of months and years as opposed to like seven a day. Sandy is nature at work and is out of   control. Deteriorating service? I highly doubt that actually otherwise there would be a large outcry from the public and the media. The deteriorating service comes from more people using it. The fares MUST go up. History has already shown that keeping the fares static does not work. It actually led to the conditions in the 1970s and 80s. The homelessness in the subways only occurs because the CITY does not want to do anything about it. Again, out of the control of the .

 

Really? Ridership on buses continues to decline due to horrendous service (MIA or late buses), and even the admits that subway service in terms of on-time performance has worsened. I think you need to re-check your facts big time. As for Sandy, yes, I blame the because the subway system is beyond fragile as shown by how many trains were knocked out.

Horrendous is a strong word coming from someone who relies primarily on the EXPRESS BUS. From posts in the past, you do not use local buses and subways as much as most of us here or the average commuter actually. So for you to say that ANYTHING non-express bus related is just extra. How was the supposed to know that in the year 2012, a hurricane was going to rock the region? That is not their fault anymore than it is the city's fault for not putting up surge barriers at the Narrows.

 

You complain WAY too much. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Several over the course of months and years as opposed to like seven a day. Sandy is nature at work and is out of   control. Deteriorating service? I highly doubt that actually otherwise there would be a large outcry from the public and the media. The deteriorating service comes from more people using it. The fares MUST go up. History has already shown that keeping the fares static does not work. It actually led to the conditions in the 1970s and 80s. The homelessness in the subways only occurs because the CITY does not want to do anything about it. Again, out of the control of the .

 

Horrendous is a strong word coming from someone who relies primarily on the EXPRESS BUS. From posts in the past, you do not use local buses and subways as much as most of us here or the average commuter actually. So for you to say that ANYTHING non-express bus related is just extra. How was the supposed to know that in the year 2012, a hurricane was going to rock the region? That is not their fault anymore than it is the city's fault for not putting up surge barriers at the Narrows.

 

You complain WAY too much. 

Several DEADLY derailments is nothing to gloss over.  As for Sandy, it just showed how unprepared the was and how little had been invested into the subway system.  Last I checked, FEWER people are using the local buses overall, not more, primarily due to poor service.  That's nothing to play up.  Additionally, arguing that raising the fare is good when a large number of those riders (particularly local bus riders) can't afford those fares is another terrible example.

 

Somebody has been in fantasy land far too long.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I agree with the sentiments of both VG8 and those responding to him. However I would say VG8's concerns are more legitimate given the times were in. To say the system is a vast improvement over three decades ago is lip service to the many riders who haven't been alive for three decades. Also as an organization responsible for transporting millions of people every day they should be continuously striving to make sure they are doing so in the most efficient and effective ways possible. So the question should be not whether transit in 2015 is much improved from 1985 but rather has 2015 transit improved any from 2009 lets say? It shows that as long as the system isn't bordering on collapse they aren't willing to change or improve much. That's a big problem in eyes because a city like New York should have one of the best systems in the world instead of one that's merely functional.

[MHV9218]

This Sandy talk is inane. Nothing in New York is hurricane-proof, from the buildings to the power plants. I didn't have power for a week, so I sure noticed the latter part. Maybe that horrible nuclear-proof phone tower in Lower Manhattan is the exception. What we learned from Sandy is how we need to prepare for a modern world where this is the new normal (since our federal government doesn't give a wet shit about global warming--or more specifically, the Republicans don't) and stuff like this will happen.

 

Back to the initial point, the subways are an economic engine for the city and consequently the state. If the state is going to collect all the MTA's toll money, it should be responsible for the portion that is designed to operate at a loss, too.

[bobtehpanda]

Of course the MTA performed like shit during Sandy. So did everyone else. Lower Manhattan had no power for two weeks and was also basically under ten feet of water for the good part of a day, and the subway is underground, so it only makes sense that they were unable to operate service. In fact, if I remember correctly during that time, the MTA managed to clear out the tunnels pretty quickly, but couldn't run service due to the lack of ConEd progress in Lower Manhattan.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Of course the MTA performed like shit during Sandy. So did everyone else. Lower Manhattan had no power for two weeks and was also basically under ten feet of water for the good part of a day, and the subway is underground, so it only makes sense that they were unable to operate service. In fact, if I remember correctly during that time, the MTA managed to clear out the tunnels pretty quickly, but couldn't run service due to the lack of ConEd progress in Lower Manhattan.

That's precisely the point.  Forget about Sandy.  Anytime we've had a serious rain storm, the subway has been suspect.

[LTA1992]

I agree with the sentiments of both VG8 and those responding to him. However I would say VG8's concerns are more legitimate given the times were in. To say the system is a vast improvement over three decades ago is lip service to the many riders who haven't been alive for three decades. Also as an organization responsible for transporting millions of people every day they should be continuously striving to make sure they are doing so in the most efficient and effective ways possible. So the question should be not whether transit in 2015 is much improved from 1985 but rather has 2015 transit improved any from 2009 lets say? It shows that as long as the system isn't bordering on collapse they aren't willing to change or improve much. That's a big problem in eyes because a city like New York should have one of the best systems in the world instead of one that's merely functional.

Yes but with the latest board meeting, I am confident that the improvements needed are coming. From what I've seen, it's exactly the kind of flood protection I thought should be needed. Easy to install when needed and effective. Watch the July board meeting if you want clarification on that. mtainfo on YouTube.

 

And to call it merely functional, of all things, is erroneous. In fact, as compared to other systems in the world, we are actually carrying double the capacity we would if everything was two tracked and isolated. More people have been using it since both those years and the saying "The more you use it, the more likely it is to fail" is exemplified today. The can only do what the money they have will allow them to do. It's not a problem exclusive to this system but is in fact a problem for any large system with a flat rate fare. It's been a problem for this city all throughout its history. Mayors have said it, IRT and BRT presidents have said it. This issue is not new and the People are the ones who need to yell louder. Go down to City Hall personally. Go up to Albany and make their demands known. Gather groups of people headed by those versed in law and economics, people with skills in engineering. Take surveys of what the People want (unbiased hopefully). All I hear is complaining but how many people are actually ready to do the work needed to make their voices known? It's not enough to just complain about what's wrong, people are not going to want to hear that. 

This Sandy talk is inane. Nothing in New York is hurricane-proof, from the buildings to the power plants. I didn't have power for a week, so I sure noticed the latter part. Maybe that horrible nuclear-proof phone tower in Lower Manhattan is the exception. What we learned from Sandy is how we need to prepare for a modern world where this is the new normal (since our federal government doesn't give a wet shit about global warming--or more specifically, the Republicans don't) and stuff like this will happen.

 

Back to the initial point, the subways are an economic engine for the city and consequently the state. If the state is going to collect all the MTA's toll money, it should be responsible for the portion that is designed to operate at a loss, too.

A week, you're lucky. I was in Coney Island and it was hell. Made worse that my building was the last one to get it's lights back on. Two weeks later.

 

That's precisely the point.  Forget about Sandy.  Anytime we've had a serious rain storm, the subway has been suspect.

Anytime? I would like some receipts on that please.

[NewFlyer 230]

Really? Ridership on buses continues to decline due to horrendous service (MIA or late buses), and even the admits that subway service in terms of on-time performance has worsened. I think you need to re-check your facts big time. As for Sandy, yes, I blame the because the subway system is beyond fragile as shown by how many trains were knocked out.

Dude I agree with you on the fact that SOME bus routes are suffering due to buses not showing up on time and stuff but to say that the MTA could have prevented Sandy from crippling parts of the subway system is asinine. Why does on time performance concern you anyway? I thought you don't like taking the subway because it is dirty cramped and filled with so many homeless people. Subway service on the weekdays is fine now as far as the weekend goes the MTA does work on the subway to make sure things don't fail and to continue to provide us with good service. The MTA can't prevent natural disasters from happening.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Dude I agree with you on the fact that SOME bus routes are suffering due to buses not showing up on time and stuff but to say that the MTA could have prevented Sandy from crippling parts of the subway system is asinine. Why does on time performance concern you anyway? I thought you don't like taking the subway because it is dirty cramped and filled with so many homeless people. Subway service on the weekdays is fine now as far as the weekend goes the MTA does work on the subway to make sure things don't fail and to continue to provide us with good service. The MTA can't prevent natural disasters from happening.

I don't like the subway and try to avoid it where possible.  Went to the Bowery yesterday.  Took the BxM1 express bus and used the local bus the rest of the way. Much nicer than using the train down to 2nd Avenue. The point about Sandy isn't asinine because the had other heavy rains that crippled the system, and they apparently didn't learn from those, so my assessment is spot on.  Massive amounts of funding is needed for the system because it is in deplorable shape.  Filthy, crumbling stations.  They focus on a handful of stations while others are in desperate need of repair.  Aside from that, I probably use the subway more than you anyway and I'm an express bus rider, so I'm not sure how you can assess something you barely use?