R211 Discussion Thread

[texassubwayfan555]

12 hours ago, rbrome said:

We're only at about 2/3 the ridership compared to pre-pandemic

Did WFH put a permanent dent in ridership?

[RandomRider0101]

8 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is why the state needs to audit the MTA.  I know people who either worked for the MTA or are still working with the MTA and they tell me that the top people of the MTA are not managing the budget correctly.

 

 

8 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is why this bill needs to be approved, so that people can ride the bus for free. 

There are some farebeaters that are crooks. However, there are so many people right now that are underemployed or living paycheck to paycheck struggling to make ends meet because things are too expensive and are farebeating because they can't afford to pay $127 a month.

I agree with all of this. I just wish things could get better; but I know it's not that simple. In order to have a proper working system, things must be done properly; something that the MTA clearly struggles to do.

[RandomRider0101]

5 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Did WFH put a permanent dent in ridership?

Possibly; many have said that they want work-from-home to be a permanent option at their jobs. Many of us don't have that luxury as most basic jobs are physical and require the person to actually be there. So good for them I guess; not good for the MTA though 🤷‍♂️

[rbrome]

7 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Did WFH put a permanent dent in ridership?

Definitely. It's the same across most of the world. 

[R32 3838]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:56 AM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This came out today:

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/12/15/states-senator-gianaris-on-new-legislation-aiming-to-improve-mta-while-balancing-budget

I hope this bill gets passed. This bill needs to also include auditing the MTA to ensure that they are managing their budget efficiently.

There is no doubt that one of the biggest issues with the MTA is that they don't know how to manage the budget. They got billions of dollars from the Federal government and yet service is getting worse. They got the nerve to find lame excuses (like "ridership is low", which is not true) to raise fares and cut service.

Also, they are taking their sweet time to buy new subway cars. The r262's and whatever is replacing the r68's should have been included in this current Capital program.

Notice how service on trains that use r46's have gotten worse. The r46's are breaking down like flies. If delays on the r211 persists, we are going to face a subway car shortage that will cripple the system.

 

They delayed Lexington CBTC so It's smart to just focus on the R68 replacements first imo. The R62/R62As don't have the less door issue like the 75 footers have and the R62s are stand sized IRT cars. Their only issue is the they have standard sized doors instead of the wider doors on the R142/142A fleet plus the R62/R62A are very reliable cars.

R46s are terrible because they have a spare shortage and they run on the and 24/7. Before, The R46s were fairly reliable.

Once the R211s go into service, No R46 that's currently running should be placed OOS until there are 200 R211s in passenger service. State want congestion pricing to start by late 2023 if they get their way (subject to change), They will need every subway car they currently have.

Also buying new subway cars is a process and the pandemic really screwed things up with the supply shortages. This is the main reason why the R211s aren't in service yet. You can't just produce new subway cars out of thin air. It takes a lot of time and planning to do so. 

 

19 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

This is why this bill needs to be approved, so that people can ride the bus for free. 

There are some farebeaters that are crooks. However, there are so many people right now that are underemployed or living paycheck to paycheck struggling to make ends meet because things are too expensive and are farebeating because they can't afford to pay $127 a month.

That's all bullshit, Sometimes you have to make sacrifices or get your money up. Most of these broke people buy expensive stuff and walk on the bus without a single care in the world. screw free fares, Lets focus on making sure Rent doesn't keep increasing, That needs to be signed into law.  We worrying about the wrong things while not focusing on the most important things. The right can be bad but the left as just as bad with the "everything must be free" attitude while doing nothing about rent increases in neighborhoods that are primarily People of color .

Edited December 17, 2022 by R32 3838

[subwaycommuter1983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

 

They delayed Lexington CBTC so It's smart to just focus on the R68 replacements first imo. The R62/R62As don't have the less door issue like the 75 footers have and the R62s are stand sized IRT cars. Their only issue is the they have standard sized doors instead of the wider doors on the R142/142A fleet plus the R62/R62A are very reliable cars.

R46s are terrible because they have a spare shortage and they run on the and 24/7. Before, The R46s were fairly reliable.

Once the R211s go into service, No R46 that's currently running should be placed OOS until there are 200 R211s in passenger service. State want congestion pricing to start by late 2023 if they get their way (subject to change), They will need every subway car they currently have.

Also buying new subway cars is a process and the pandemic really screwed things up with the supply shortages. This is the main reason why the R211s aren't in service yet. You can't just produce new subway cars out of thin air. It takes a lot of time and planning to do so. 

 

That's all bullshit, Sometimes you have to make sacrifices or get your money up. Most of these broke people buy expensive stuff and walk on the bus without a single care in the world. screw free fares, Lets focus on making sure Rent doesn't keep increasing, That needs to be signed into law.  We worrying about the wrong things while not focusing on the most important things. The right can be bad but the left as just as bad with the "everything must be free" attitude while doing nothing about rent increases in neighborhoods that are primarily People of color .

Yes, rent and food increases need to stop. Section 8 vouchers should be available to all low income people. Also, minimum wage needs to go up $18 an hour and the state needs to mandate all employers to give $1/hr raise every year. Prices are too high, but salaries are stagnant.

[RandomRider0101]

14 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

They delayed Lexington CBTC so It's smart to just focus on the R68 replacements first imo. The R62/R62As don't have the less door issue like the 75 footers have and the R62s are stand sized IRT cars. Their only issue is the they have standard sized doors instead of the wider doors on the R142/142A fleet plus the R62/R62A are very reliable cars.

R46s are terrible because they have a spare shortage and they run on the and 24/7. Before, The R46s were fairly reliable.

Once the R211s go into service, No R46 that's currently running should be placed OOS until there are 200 R211s in passenger service. State want congestion pricing to start by late 2023 if they get their way (subject to change), They will need every subway car they currently have.

Also buying new subway cars is a process and the pandemic really screwed things up with the supply shortages. This is the main reason why the R211s aren't in service yet. You can't just produce new subway cars out of thin air. It takes a lot of time and planning to do so. 

 

That's all bullshit, Sometimes you have to make sacrifices or get your money up. Most of these broke people buy expensive stuff and walk on the bus without a single care in the world. screw free fares, Lets focus on making sure Rent doesn't keep increasing, That needs to be signed into law.  We worrying about the wrong things while not focusing on the most important things. The right can be bad but the left as just as bad with the "everything must be free" attitude while doing nothing about rent increases in neighborhoods that are primarily People of color .

I agree with a lot of your points. But what I will say about the last point is that there are ppl who work multiple jobs and STILL struggle to make ends meet. I'm not saying that should be an excuse to farebeat, but in those specific scenarios I understand.

When you work minimum wage and can barely pay rent, it's pretty tough. I absolutely agree that rent should stop increasing; this city is already not affordable to live in, and they continue to make it even less affordable over time. Pushing poor ppl/ of color out of their homes & neighborhoods in favor of ppl with more money who come in and gentrify everything. They know exactly what they're doing; they want this city to be a place where only rich & white ppl can live. That's why no one else can live here comfortably.

[RandomRider0101]

Video From Dj Hammers.

R211T testing on sharpest curves in B-division / system.

 

[RandomRider0101]

Shout-out to @Dj Hammers & the videographers who captured the footage (meant to put this in the original post).

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The R211T seems like it handled those ENY curves good. And I like how they signed it up as an , even though R211-series trains will likely not operate on the  or the other ENY Yard-based lines for anytime soon. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by T to Dyre Avenue

[texassubwayfan555]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

R211-series trains will likely not operate on the

Will they even get set up for CBTC anytime soon?

[darkstar8983]

9 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Will they even get set up for CBTC anytime soon?

The R211s will come with CBTC installed I think, which is why I think all the cars that are coming in should do test runs on Queens Blvd before getting shipped out to their assigned lines. The 30-day test should be done on the  or , then when the particular set passes, shift to the planned assigned line.

Edited December 26, 2022 by darkstar8983

[T to Dyre Avenue]

14 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

The R211s will come with CBTC installed I think, which is why I think all the cars that are coming in should do test runs on Queens Blvd before getting shipped out to their assigned lines. The 30-day test should be done on the  or , then when the particular set passes, shift to the planned assigned line.

Definitely they should test the pilot R211T train on the  and . But since the R211A is planned to be assigned to the  and  lines, the 30-day test should be done there. The closed gangways on the R211A cars will mean those cars will get to crush loads faster than the R160s because all R211s will have wider doors and fewer seats versus the older cars. The R211T’s will have less of an issue with that thanks to their open gangways, so QBL is a fine place to test them.

Edited December 26, 2022 by T to Dyre Avenue

[darkstar8983]

51 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Definitely they should test the pilot R211T train on the  and . But since the R211A is planned to be assigned to the  and  lines, the 30-day test should be done there. The closed gangways on the R211A cars will mean those cars will get to crush loads faster than the R160s because all R211s will have wider doors and fewer seats versus the older cars. The R211T’s will have less of an issue with that thanks to their open gangways, so QBL is a fine place to test them.

I see why you’d want to have the 30-day test on the , since that’s where the base order is 99.99% likely to go, but the advantage of testing the 30-day run on Queens is because it can test the switching between CBTC and manual operation mid-route from the get go, and then run in bypass on the  once the train passes. And it’s not unheard of for cars to do the 30-day test on one like then be moved to another line for official assignment. Remember that the R160s did that (both trains tested on the  for their 30-day test (R160A train did its test on the  from the start but the R160B test train ran its 30’day test on the  after it had failed its first try at the 30-day test on day 2 on the ) and then were transferred to Coney Island to run on the .)

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 12/25/2022 at 4:38 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The R211T seems like it handled those ENY curves good. And I like how they signed it up as an , even though R211-series trains will likely not operate on the  or the other ENY Yard-based lines for anytime soon. 

The 2nd option order will include 8 car trains, but it is still unclear if those 8 car trains will be r211As or r211T's. If those 8 car trains will consist of r211Ts, then it would make sense to put them either on the G, L or M due to ridership and CBTC, while the JZ can keep all the 8 car r179's.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

18 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The 2nd option order will include 8 car trains, but it is still unclear if those 8 car trains will be r211As or r211T's. If those 8 car trains will consist of r211Ts, then it would make sense to put them either on the G, L or M due to ridership and CBTC, while the JZ can keep all the 8 car r179's.

I’d honestly like to see them try 9-car trains on the . If I’m not mistaken, the BMT ran 8-car trains of Standards (67’-6” long apiece), which were 540’ long, same as a 9-car train of 60 footers, so it should be possible with R211s (or even R160s).

[Lawrence St]

34 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I’d honestly like to see them try 9-car trains on the . If I’m not mistaken, the BMT ran 8-car trains of Standards (67’-6” long apiece), which were 540’ long, same as a 9-car train of 60 footers, so it should be possible with R211s (or even R160s).

The newer (IIRC) CBTC equipped R160’s/R179’s arent compatible with the Canarsie CBTC.

So it’s not even worth it for them to try, even though they should consider extending the platforms or making the CBTC system compatible with QBL CBTC.

[darkstar8983]

3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I’d honestly like to see them try 9-car trains on the . If I’m not mistaken, the BMT ran 8-car trains of Standards (67’-6” long apiece), which were 540’ long, same as a 9-car train of 60 footers, so it should be possible with R211s (or even R160s).

Not possible due to 8 Av and Canarsie terminals barely able to fit 8-car trains as is. The trains would be sitting on the switches and cannot turn around

[U-BahnNYC]

On 12/26/2022 at 5:47 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The 2nd option order will include 8 car trains, but it is still unclear if those 8 car trains will be r211As or r211T's. If those 8 car trains will consist of r211Ts, then it would make sense to put them either on the G, L or M due to ridership and CBTC, while the JZ can keep all the 8 car r179's.

Can someone explain to me why on earth we need more 8 car trains? With the 8-car R179s coming off the once R211s arrive, the Eastern Division will have a ridiculously high spare factor. And truthfully, it already has a high spare factor...

[R32 3838]

15 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Can someone explain to me why on earth we need more 8 car trains? With the 8-car R179s coming off the once R211s arrive, the Eastern Division will have a ridiculously high spare factor. And truthfully, it already has a high spare factor...

 

Extra capacity for the line is the main reason why.

[subwaycommuter1983]

31 minutes ago, U-BahnNYC said:

Can someone explain to me why on earth we need more 8 car trains? With the 8-car R179s coming off the once R211s arrive, the Eastern Division will have a ridiculously high spare factor. And truthfully, it already has a high spare factor...

The G will need some of the 8 car r160's. If ENY still has high spare factor after the G becomes full length, then it would be a great idea to extend the Z to 4th Avenue to make the Z a more useful line and provide more local service on 4th Avenue.

[subwaycommuter1983]

22 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

Extra capacity for the line is the main reason why.

Does the L really need that extra capacity?

The G needs to go full length once the r179's get displaced from the C.

IMO I think the 8 car r211's should go to the G or M, the JZ gets all the 8 car r179's, the L gets all the r143's plus some r160's.

[darkstar8983]

If the math is done correctly, the  would use all R179s, the  could use the new R211s along with R143s, and all R160s can be split between the  and

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Does the L really need that extra capacity?

The G needs to go full length once the r179's get displaced from the C.

IMO I think the 8 car r211's should go to the G or M, the JZ gets all the 8 car r179's, the L gets all the r143's plus some r160's.

 

The is a high ridership line and should get the small amount of R211s which would be shared with the / if that group of R211s have the CBTC to run on the like the R143s and 64 R160s

If the were to get the 8 car R160s, The would have to use the R179s which are currently in the process of receiving CBTC kits.

 

And with the ridership patterns that keep changing, We don't even know if the will ether get 8 car trains. It all depends since things are always changing on the fly.

 

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The G will need some of the 8 car r160's. If ENY still has high spare factor after the G becomes full length, then it would be a great idea to extend the Z to 4th Avenue to make the Z a more useful line and provide more local service on 4th Avenue.

NO, The needs to stay the way it is now. I'm sick and tired of people thinking the is useless when they don't even take the line. Skip - Stop works on the / and its very useful when you want another way to get to Jamaica if the has issues. Have every other to to 9th ave instead during the rush hours. Having every other go to Brooklyn would not be bad and would not interfere with the skip stop pattern since the other trains will end at broad st. Or just have both / go down to 9th ave by adding a few more trains during the peak hours.

Edited January 2, 2023 by R32 3838

[U-BahnNYC]

18 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The G will need some of the 8 car r160's. If ENY still has high spare factor after the G becomes full length, then it would be a great idea to extend the Z to 4th Avenue to make the Z a more useful line and provide more local service on 4th Avenue.

Why not give the full 10-car sets like the rest of the IND? Leave all the 8 car trains on the Eastern Division and stop making the same mistake of providing inadequate service on the IND.