Bx6 SBS?

[Cait Sith]

lol... Very true.  However, the lone Board Member from Staten Island (Allen Cappelli) definitely acknowledged years ago that it was a problem and work was done behind the scenes for a little while to combat the problem, but I wonder if that has been maintained?  I'm led to believe that isn't the case but I don't know.  The times that I do go back to Staten Island, it is usually via the express bus, and I would say that just about all of the farebeating that I've witnessed has been on local buses, all on the North Shore of course.

From my experiences with the S79, I tend to see the farebeating between Eltingville Blvd and somewhere around Midland Avenue. Sometimes a little further where it connects with the S53, but it's pretty rare from what I seen. I think the wraps themselves are some kind of deterrent, considering that the riding public has some kind of view of what the majority of SBS is.

 

Back before Staten Island got those new hybrids, I used to see it happen every now and then on the S79. It wasn't as bad as how the S40, S44, S46 & S48(I've seen it more on the 40 and 44 really), but it's happened, just not as often.

 

 

I think SBS actually makes it harder to farebeat, since there's more of a risk of being caught by the Eagle Team. (Also, the Bx41 definitely has its share of farebeaters and SBS works out just fine over there. On my trips up there pre-SBS, it was definitely higher than anything on Staten Island).

 

In any case, the (relative) infrequency of the S79 makes it better if there's no POP. Remember that one of the big complaints about SBS is missing the bus while trying to get a ticket, and the S79 is generally less frequent than the other SBS routes.

I haven't seen much farebeating on the S79 Select, but I think the general public has some kind of idea as to how SBS works. I kinda think there's a pre-determined idea that they'll eventually get caught by said eagle team(which don't exist on the S79).

 

The Bx41's eagle team tends to be out pretty often. I've encountered them at Fordham and at both terminals. I've once seen them catch 10-12 people down at the hub for farebeating...all teens...it was amazing lol.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I didn't get that from that particular statement from Via Garibaldi 8 at all.....

 

He flat out says "That would just make the Bx46 unreliable as well."

(an extension of the Bx46 would make it unreliable as he deems the Bx6 being)

 

If his issue was with the 30 minute headways, there would be no point implicating that the Bx46 as is, is reliable....

Well I was implying two things... #1 the route only has 30 minute headways, so IMO it would still remain a second thought as you said.  People may use it if it's there, but they would still flock to the Bx6, especially since most of those people need the Bx6 for points further west than Yankees Stadium.  I'm one of the few that actually rides the Bx6 for a short distance.  I can get on by say Boricua College and ride it to the stop by River Avenue for Metro-North.  The other people that get on with me and points west of that usually need the Bx6 west of that (River Avenue) and those that get off before that have been riding it further east.

 

In short, the Bx46 would need to be more frequent for it be any real help to the Bx6.

[B35 via Church]

Well I was implying two things... #1 the route only has 30 minute headways, so IMO it would still remain a second thought as you said.  People may use it if it's there, but they would still flock to the Bx6, especially since most of those people need the Bx6 for points further west than Yankees Stadium.  I'm one of the few that actually rides the Bx6 for a short distance.  I can get on by say Boricua College and ride it to the stop by River Avenue for Metro-North.  The other people that get on with me and points west of that usually need the Bx6 west of that (River Avenue) and those that get off before that have been riding it further east.

 

In short, the Bx46 would need to be more frequent for it be any real help to the Bx6.

Between YS & Prospect, it would be "just another bus"..... Past that point (163rd/Prospect), making the Bx46 more frequent would drastically over-serve industrial Hunts Point.... That's the problem with that.... And now that I think about it a little more, if they were to boost service on this route to help the Bx6, then from what other WF route would they take away service from (if it's the Bx6, that would be 100% counter-productive)??? And would it be worth it......

 

I professed in another post that I'm done with trying to find ways to make this sad sack of a route useful.... To me, it's the worst of the dinky routes the MTA has come out with, thus far.....

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

I would support a Bx46 extension to Yankee Stadium. Run it at 20 minute headways during the rush, that way the stretch between River and Prospect Avs gets 3 extra buses per hour during peak hours and you don't have too much service along the current Bx46 routing. 

[checkmatechamp13]

Between YS & Prospect, it would be "just another bus"..... Past that point (163rd/Prospect), making the Bx46 more frequent would drastically over-serve industrial Hunts Point.... That's the problem with that.... And now that I think about it a little more, if they were to boost service on this route to help the Bx6, then from what other WF route would they take away service from (if it's the Bx6, that would be 100% counter-productive)??? And would it be worth it......

 

I professed in another post that I'm done with trying to find ways to make this sad sack of a route useful.... To me, it's the worst of the dinky routes the MTA has come out with, thus far.....

 

By that logic, couldn't you make that argument about the Bx6 in industrial Hunts Point? I know there's a reasonable amount of demand all the way out to the markets, but at the same time, if you cut say, half the Hunts Point buses short at Spofford, the buses going out to the markets wouldn't be overcrowded, would they? (And yes, I know that a lot of buses short-turn at Southern Blvd from both directions). I'm not  suggesting that they do this (especially since it would probably be confusing to people going to Hunts Point, since Spofford is already in Hunts Point). 

 

Come to think about it couldn't you run the Bx46 as a branch of the Bx6 south of Spofford (the only issue is that you cut service from Longview, which I think could actually use a bus)?

 

What's the turnover like at Southern Blvd? Heading westbound, what percentage of riders stay on the bus, compared to getting off for the train or Bx5/Bx19. (I'm trying to gauge how much ridership on the Bx46 would improve, if it were extended further west). 

 

I would support a Bx46 extension to Yankee Stadium. Run it at 20 minute headways during the rush, that way the stretch between River and Prospect Avs gets 3 extra buses per hour during peak hours and you don't have too much service along the current Bx46 routing. 

 

Is traffic near Yankee Stadium an issue just during rush hour or also off-peak? Because I'm inclined to just boost service to every 20 minutes all day, just so Longwood/Hunts Point riders don't have to deal with unreliable service on top of infrequent service.

 

I think the extension would boost demand to the point where 20 minute service would be warranted anyway. Longwood itself is a fairly dense area, and the fact that you're connecting it to all the north-south routes in that part of The Bronx would likely boost ridership, on top of having it serve some major destinations directly (courthouses, etc). Ridership would still drop off after Southern Blvd, but I don't think it would be quite as anemic as it is today, especially since you'd be able to take a portion of Hunts Point riders off the Bx6 itself, by providing them a quicker route (or an alternate route in general) to areas west of Prospect Avenue. Not to mention the frequency itself would attract a few extra riders.

[B35 via Church]

By that logic, couldn't you make that argument about the Bx6 in industrial Hunts Point? I know there's a reasonable amount of demand all the way out to the markets, but at the same time, if you cut say, half the Hunts Point buses short at Spofford, the buses going out to the markets wouldn't be overcrowded, would they? (And yes, I know that a lot of buses short-turn at Southern Blvd from both directions). I'm not  suggesting that they do this (especially since it would probably be confusing to people going to Hunts Point, since Spofford is already in Hunts Point). 

 

Come to think about it couldn't you run the Bx46 as a branch of the Bx6 south of Spofford (the only issue is that you cut service from Longview, which I think could actually use a bus)?

 

What's the turnover like at Southern Blvd? Heading westbound, what percentage of riders stay on the bus, compared to getting off for the train or Bx5/Bx19. (I'm trying to gauge how much ridership on the Bx46 would improve, if it were extended further west).

If I were to suggest increasing service on the Bx6 from end-to-end, sure by logic I could make that argument..... But I'm not suggesting that at all... If service were to increase on the Bx6 (instead of extending Bx46 to YS or w/e), I would actually end service at Southern (instead of Spofford).....

(BTW, from Manhattan, there aren't any trips that end at Southern - they all run the full route (save for hawk trips)).....

 

Anyway, from Manhattan, if you cut 1/2 the Bx6's short of the food markets (at Spofford), I doubt the ones running the full route would be overcrowded..... Buses would be overcrowded if 1/2 the Bx6's were to end at Southern, though....

 

The question in the 2nd paragraph.... I can't answer that, as it's uncertain what routing the Bx46 in that scenario would take....

 

Turnover at Southern Blvd from the Food Markets isn't all that high (I'd say 20/80, or even 15/85)... Vast majority of those boarding w/i Industrial Hunts pt. on the Bx6 ride well past Southern.... Those short turns that run from Industrial Hunts pt. to the exist for residential Hunts point more than anything....

[checkmatechamp13]

Buses would take Hunts Point-Spofford-Tiffany-Viele, and then turn around like normal. (Or alternatively, just end the buses at Barretto Point Park). 

 

Alright, that makes sense, and it definitely seems like the Bx46 would be significantly more utilized along Viele/Tiffany if it were to travel further west in The Bronx. I mean, if less than 1 out of every 5 industrial workers is actually headed to the subway, then theoretically, an extension further west could mean that buses get 5 times the ridership along Viele/Tiffany itself.

[BronxBombers]

Buses would take Hunts Point-Spofford-Tiffany-Viele, and then turn around like normal. (Or alternatively, just end the buses at Barretto Point Park). 

 

Alright, that makes sense, and it definitely seems like the Bx46 would be significantly more utilized along Viele/Tiffany if it were to travel further west in The Bronx. I mean, if less than 1 out of every 5 industrial workers is actually headed to the subway, then theoretically, an extension further west could mean that buses get 5 times the ridership along Viele/Tiffany itself.

 

If the Bx46 were to be extended, I would suggest taking it off Longwood and just run north up Tiffany St, turn to Lafayette (or Garrison), turn to Hunts Point Av and than follow the Bx6 to Yankee Stadium. I don't think that Longwood Av needs bus service and if they need to get to points west of Prospect on the Bx6 they would just walk a few blocks to 163rd St. Also you won't have to increase service on the Bx6 if the Bx46 was extended with this routing. If the 46 was extended with its current routing, service would have to be increased on the 6 since it would still be crowded from Prospect to Hunts Point.

[Q19Astoria21St]

To be honest it doesn't make any sense to have any crosstown sbs

[bobtehpanda]

To be honest it doesn't make any sense to have any crosstown sbs

 

Isn't the Bx12 already "crosstown"?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

To be honest it doesn't make any sense to have any crosstown sbs

Is that a serious statement?

 

Isn't the Bx12 already "crosstown"?

Technically it is and it's definitely needed.  There is really no easy way to go "crosstown" in the Bronx, mainly due to the hilly topography and how isolated some areas are.  When I have to tutor in different parts of the Bronx, I just take the express bus into the city and transfer to another Bronx express bus back to the Bronx. For example going from North Bronx to South Bronx, I'm better off taking the BxM10 into Manhattan and the BxM4 back to the Bronx.  It's actually easier that way.  Oddly enough I have two sessions in the Northern Bronx resuming in January, and there is no real "crosstown" local bus, so I'm better off just walking 15 - 20 minutes as opposed to backtracking for a local bus.  I get the feeling that a lot of people in the Bronx do backtracking to get to other parts of the Bronx despite all of the local buses, many of which I don't even know of and have never used.  Outside of Bx6 and Bx41, I really haven't used any Bronx local buses.  There is no real alternative to the Bx6 aside from walking and the Bx41 I only use when I can't get a Metro-North train since they run so poorly in the poor areas of the South Bronx (as little as every two hours at some stops).  The Bx7, Bx10 and Bx20 I've only used within Riverdale or from Riverdale down to Kingsbridge in the Bronx or Inwood in Manhattan.

[BronxBombers]

To be honest it doesn't make any sense to have any crosstown sbs

 

I don't think you understand how hard it is to travel crosstown in the Bronx. Not everyone is traveling north-south. If you have to travel from West Bronx to East Bronx you have to sit through a 30+ minute bus ride, take the to 149th or 125th and take the , or go through a three-legged transfer with an unlimited metrocard. If there is another SBS crosstown bus in the Bronx, (depending on the routing) it could make traveling crosstown a bit easier and faster.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't think you understand how hard it is to travel crosstown in the Bronx. Not everyone is traveling north-south. If you have to travel from West Bronx to East Bronx you have to sit through a 30+ minute bus ride, take the to 149th or 125th and take the , or go through a three-legged transfer with an unlimited metrocard. If there is another SBS crosstown bus in the Bronx, (depending on the routing) it could make traveling crosstown a bit easier and faster.

But where would another SBS route go aside from the Bx6?  I don't know much about the Bronx since I have only used a few of the local buses and haven't been to many neighborhoods aside from the ones I've tutored in, but looking at the map are those buses viewed as "crosstown" buses?

[MysteriousBtrain]

But where would another SBS route go aside from the Bx6? I don't know much about the Bronx since I have only used a few of the local buses and haven't been to many neighborhoods aside from the ones I've tutored in, but looking at the map are those buses viewed as "crosstown" buses?

Another good candidate for SBS is the Bx36. It already uses artics occasionally and has the LTD service for it, so I say why not?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Another good candidate for SBS is the Bx36. It already uses artics occasionally and has the LTD service for it, so I say why not?

I've actually seen that bus when I use the BxM8 for tutoring.  I checked the schedule for it and it seems to not run on time because there is supposed to be a bus due when I would get off of the BxM8 that was usually always late.  I would just walk since I realized it wasn't that far, but I'm assuming that bus must get caught up somewhere.  When does it use artics? I've only seen it on weekends and it always had 40 footers.

[MysteriousBtrain]

I've actually seen that bus when I use the BxM8 for tutoring. I checked the schedule for it and it seems to not run on time because there is supposed to be a bus due when I would get off of the BxM8 that was usually always late. I would just walk since I realized it wasn't that far, but I'm assuming that bus must get caught up somewhere. When does it use artics? I've only seen it on weekends and it always had 40 footers.

It mainly uses them during the rush hour period. The bus would have about 2-5 artics at the time, and boy, there should be more on the Bx36. Hopefully when the CNG artics arrive, the Bx36 can have the same fate as the Bx15 and Bx19.

[BronxBombers]

But where would another SBS route go aside from the Bx6?  I don't know much about the Bronx since I have only used a few of the local buses and haven't been to many neighborhoods aside from the ones I've tutored in, but looking at the map are those buses viewed as "crosstown" buses?

 

I would say maybe a more heavily used crosstown bus that connects West Bronx and East Bronx, like the Bx36, Bx40/42. All three of those routes are unreliable and takes more than 40 minutes just to travel crosstown. However I think that the streets it travels are too narrow to be considered for SBS, since people don't want to lose parking space.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It mainly uses them during the rush hour period. The bus would have about 2-5 artics at the time, and boy, there should be more on the Bx36. Hopefully when the CNG artics arrive, the Bx36 can have the same fate as the Bx15 and Bx19.

Interesting... What causes them to run so bunched?  When I see them on weekends they seem to travel in packs at times.

 

I would say maybe a more heavily used crosstown bus that connects West Bronx and East Bronx, like the Bx36, Bx40/42. All three of those routes are unreliable and takes more than 40 minutes just to travel crosstown. However I think that the streets it travels are too narrow to be considered for SBS, since people don't want to lose parking space.

Well the only bus that seems somewhat like a crosstown in the Bronx is the Bx12.  The others seem to have to meander a bit to get "crosstown" because of the street layouts in the Bronx.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Interesting... What causes them to run so bunched? When I see them on weekends they seem to travel in packs at times.

Well the main points of view that get the Bx36 crowded from my experience are the GWB terminal area, West Farms, and Parkchester. Whenever I take the to castle hill to go to my dance classes, I see a crowd of people waiting at the Bx36 stop. Same for West Farms whenever I reach that area. GWB I don't visit much, but when I do, the Bx36 desides to spend a few minutes in one stop.

Well the only bus that seems somewhat like a crosstown in the Bronx is the Bx12. The others seem to have to meander a bit to get "crosstown" because of the street layouts in the Bronx.

All it takes for a bus to be a "crosstown" in Manhattan and the Bronx is that a bus route mainly travels east to west and vice versa, nothing else special.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Well the main points of view that get the Bx36 crowded from my experience are the GWB terminal area, West Farms, and Parkchester. Whenever I take the to castle hill to go to my dance classes, I see a crowd of people waiting at the Bx36 stop. Same for West Farms whenever I reach that area. GWB I don't visit much, but when I do, the Bx36 desides to spend a few minutes in one stop.

All it takes for a bus to be a "crosstown" in Manhattan and the Bronx is that a bus route mainly travels east to west and vice versa, nothing else special.

But that's my point.  A lot of the Bronx doesn't seem to have ways of traveling directly from east to west and vice versa.  Most of Manhattan is laid out on a grid.  The Bronx has parts that are like a grid but not to same degree.  From what I see when walking from the BxM8 towards Shorehaven, just about all of the Bx36 stops going North have large crowds.  It's that or nothing to the subway unless they walk to one of the other routes (Bx5 or Bx39?) IIRC.

[MysteriousBtrain]

But that's my point. A lot of the Bronx doesn't seem to have ways of traveling directly from east to west and vice versa. Most of Manhattan is laid out on a grid. The Bronx has parts that are like a grid but not to same degree. From what I see when walking from the BxM8 towards Shorehaven, just about all of the Bx36 stops going North have large crowds. It's that or nothing to the subway unless they walk to one of the other routes (Bx5 or Bx39?) IIRC.

It's not that hard to really figure out. There are a few routes that are both a crosstown and a north-south route, like the Bx9, Bx10 and Bx19, but otherwise it is one or the other. But 3 routes east of the Bronx river is a sight different story. The Bx23, Bx24, and Bx29 don't really have a "main way" due to their ingenious paths. The other routes have one, another, or both.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It's not that hard to really figure out. There are a few routes that are both a crosstown and a north-south route, like the Bx9, Bx10 and Bx19, but otherwise it is one or the other. But 3 routes east of the Bronx river is a sight different story. The Bx23, Bx24, and Bx29 don't really have a "main way" due to their ingenious paths. The other routes have one, another, or both.

It's not about being hard to figure out.  It's about the layout of the land and how some routes have to "meander" to be a crosstown route like the Bx10.  It doesn't have much of a choice but to be a north-south AND east-west route because of the areas it goes through.