Jump to content


Attention: In order to reply to messages, create topics, have access to other features of the community you must sign up for an account.
Sign in to follow this  
BrooklynBus

Woodhaven Blvd. Q52/53 SBS Discussion

Recommended Posts

Newspaper Articles:

 

http://m.qgazette.com/news/2015-12-02/Features/QPTC_Urges_Queensrail_Not_Woodhaven_Select_Bus_Svc.html#.VmDE8L2vmEt/.

QPTC Urges QueensRail No Woodhaven Select Bus Service

 

http://www.qchron.com/opinion/editorial/terrible-sbs-plan-must-be-shelved/article_5816605f-823e-5e45-ab37-d406d4a5c5b5.html/

Terrible SBS Plan Must Be Shelved

 

http://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/wrba-asks-dot-to-consider-busway/article_1801ae73-2d6f-5fb5-aa8a-a9d119b9db53.html/

WRBA Asks DOT to Consider Busway

 

http://www.qchron.com/editions/central/woodhaven-says-sbs-makes-no-sense/article_258606a4-5b99-53eb-8986-831db89419c9.html/

Woodhaven Says SBS Makes No Sense

 

http://www.qchron.com/editions/south/we-don-t-have-to-wait-to-know-that-sbs/article_078e9b48-2071-584a-865d-c186e8fbfe46.html/

We Don't Have to Wait to Know That SBS Is No Good

 

http://www.qchron.com/opinion/columns/will-we-ever-see-those-select-bus-service-facts/article_83c9390e-e5ac-5fc7-ac28-14dfae3637b6.html/

Will We Ever See Those Select Bus Service Facts

 

http://queenstribune.com/bad-for-the-boulevard-woodhaven-residents-blast-select-bus-service-proposal/

Bad for Woodhaven Boulevard Woodhaven Residents Blast Select Bus Service Proposal

 

http://www.timesnewsweekly.com/news/2015-12-03/Local_News/WOODHAVEN_RESIDENTS_TO_DOT.html/

Woodhaven Residents to DOT: Make Us a Better Boulevard Bus Plan

 

http://theforumnewsgroup.com/2015/11/24/woodhaven-civic-discusses-outside-the-box-select-bus-service-idea//

Woodhaven Civic Discusses Outside the Box Select Bus Service Idea

 

http://qns.com/story/2015/11/24/woodhaven-residents-enjoy-small-victory-in-sbs-battle-as-dot-talks-continue//

Woodhaven Residents Enjoy Small Victory in SBS Battle as DOT Talks Continue

 

 

Woodhaven Residents' Block Association News:

 

http://news.woodhaven-nyc.org/2015/11/wrba-urges-dot-to-consider-busway.html

WRBA Urges DOT to Consider Busway Alternative to SBS

 

http://content.woodhaven-nyc.org/LetterToCommissionerGarcia-11.27.2015.pdf

WRBA 12 page letter to NYCDOT

 

 

Queens Public Transit Committee News:

 

https://bay177.afx.ms/att/GetAttachment.aspx?file=847e5a5c-2feb-4933-b08d-6ab6d0b693f4.pdf&ct=YXBwbGljYXRpb24vcGRm&name=UVBUQyBSZXBvcnQgdG8gVHJhbnNwb3J0YXRpb24gU2VjcmV0YXJ5IEZveHgucGRm&inline=0&rfc=0&empty=False&cid=16b101054c13a9cb&hm__login=alrosen7&hm__domain=msn.com&ip=10.148.2.8&d=d4668&mf=128&hm__ts=Tue%2c%2001%20Dec%202015%2004%3a45%3a33%20GMT&st=%2800073FFF8179D3FB%29&hm__ha=01_9db8acb78bf8656f066fc6d2477cf153790fca78377ccccb35bb40c33ac241fb&oneredir=1

QPTC 30 Page Report to Federal DOT

Edited by BrooklynBus
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never realized that Woodhaven would be so picky with their transportation options I actually taught that was a nice neighborhood once.

It is still a nice neighborhood. They are not being picky. They just decided to become informed, rather than just believing a bunch of lies like some other communities. Did you read that 12 page letter by the block association? In my 40 years of planning, I have never seen such an intelligent and well documented piece of work by any community group.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never realized that Woodhaven would be so picky with their transportation options I actually taught that was a nice neighborhood once.

 

 

It is still a nice neighborhood. They are not being picky. They just decided to become informed, rather than just believing a bunch of lies like some other communities. Did you read that 12 page letter by the block association? In my 40 years of planning, I have never seen such an intelligent and well documented piece of work by any community group.

lol... I tutor in Woodhaven weekly, and it's certainly on the decline. Some "ok" pockets... I always feel safe there, but I get a weird vibe there overall. It's become heavily immigrant over the years (lots of white flight), which has led to the area becoming noticeably DIRTY.  Dog crap all over the place (I always have to look where I'm walking to and from the QM15 express bus) and there's people walking around with big bags of empty bottles and other strange characters here and there.  The house that I tutor in is nice with a nice middle class family which you can still find in Woodhaven, as it remains a heavily family oriented area, but overall the neighborhood has seen better days, given how run down many of the houses look.  By comparison, the neighborhoods just north of Woodhaven (i.e. Middle Village and Glendale) are MUCH nicer and CLEANER and more middle class to even upper middle class in some parts, with Forest Hills and Forest Hills Gardens nearby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol... I tutor in Woodhaven weekly, and it's certainly on the decline. Some "ok" pockets... I always feel safe there, but I get a weird vibe there overall. It's become heavily immigrant over the years (lots of white flight), which has led to the area becoming noticeably DIRTY.  Dog crap all over the place (I always have to look where I'm walking to and from the QM15 express bus) and there's people walking around with big bags of empty bottles and other strange characters here and there.  The house that I tutor in is nice with a nice middle class family which you can still find in Woodhaven, as it remains a heavily family oriented area, but overall the neighborhood has seen better days, given how run down many of the houses look.  By comparison, the neighborhoods just north of Woodhaven (i.e. Middle Village and Glendale) are MUCH nicer and CLEANER and more middle class to even upper middle class in some parts, with Forest Hills and Forest Hills Gardens nearby.

Sometimes I wonder if the changes in housing stock quality has to due with new purchase. Meaning, when the previous owners owned the house they bought it for a much lower price so they had more money for maintenance and possibly the mortgage has been paid off which frees up income. When the neighborhood changes, all the new owners have these more expensive mortgages along with the other cost of living expenses in the NYC metro are so that leaves little left over for maintenance.

 

It is still a nice neighborhood. They are not being picky. They just decided to become informed, rather than just believing a bunch of lies like some other communities. Did you read that 12 page letter by the block association? In my 40 years of planning, I have never seen such an intelligent and well documented piece of work by any community group.

Great letter, I do question using it in case of emergency and using Sandy as an example. I'd imagine that the abundance of trees along the corridor would cause blockages from fallen limbs, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I wonder if the changes in housing stock quality has to due with new purchase. Meaning, when the previous owners owned the house they bought it for a much lower price so they had more money for maintenance and possibly the mortgage has been paid off which frees up income. When the neighborhood changes, all the new owners have these more expensive mortgages along with the other cost of living expenses in the NYC metro are so that leaves little left over for maintenance.

I personally don't think it has to do with higher mortgages because I get the impression that property values in parts of Woodhaven probably haven't gone up that much. There are A LOT of decrepit houses, abandoned houses and people moving in with lower incomes, and that IMO is the real issue.  It's certainly a working class area overall these days.  People with lower incomes naturally have less discretionary income to spend on things like landscaping or new sidewalks or other sorts of beautification and that does take a toll on the overall look of the area and housing prices in terms of their value.  I imagine that a lot of the property owners probably moved away and are just renting to the current dwellers which is another issue since that means that the owners usually focus on maximizing profit and less on maintenance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An unbelievably idiotic collection of stick-in-the-mud NIMBYs whose car-focused refusal to consider any new transportation options will be the downfall of our city in every regard from air quality to pedestrian safety. These people make me embarrassed to be a New Yorker.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol... I tutor in Woodhaven weekly, and it's certainly on the decline. Some "ok" pockets... I always feel safe there, but I get a weird vibe there overall. It's become heavily immigrant over the years (lots of white flight), which has led to the area becoming noticeably DIRTY.  Dog crap all over the place (I always have to look where I'm walking to and from the QM15 express bus) and there's people walking around with big bags of empty bottles and other strange characters here and there.  The house that I tutor in is nice with a nice middle class family which you can still find in Woodhaven, as it remains a heavily family oriented area, but overall the neighborhood has seen better days, given how run down many of the houses look.  By comparison, the neighborhoods just north of Woodhaven (i.e. Middle Village and Glendale) are MUCH nicer and CLEANER and more middle class to even upper middle class in some parts, with Forest Hills and Forest Hills Gardens nearby.

You could say that about a lot of neighborhoods in the city. That's the beauty of reactivating the Rockaway Beach Line. It would revitalize the area and increase property values whereas BRT would do nothing for the neighborhood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An unbelievably idiotic collection of stick-in-the-mud NIMBYs whose car-focused refusal to consider any new transportation options will be the downfall of our city in every regard from air quality to pedestrian safety. These people make me embarrassed to be a New Yorker.

They certainly have considered new transportation options. They even recommended studying puting buses on the Rockaway Beach Line. Doesn't sound like NIMBY's to me. But you never bothered to read the entire letter anyway. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

They rejected the idiotic idea of reducing non-bus vehicular capacity by between 50 and 75 percent on Woodhaven as DOT proposed when cars and trucks including drivers and passengers outnumber bus passengers by 4 or 5 to 1. Anyone who has studied the plan and knows all the details has rejected it. People like yourself are for it because you have no idea of what is being proposed.

 

All you know is that it is a wide street. Cars are bad. we don't want them. Everyone should be riding a bus. We need to give pedestrians and buses more space and cars less space. I don't care what anyone else says because anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot and don't confuse me with facts. It works in Bogota, Colombia so it has to work on Woodhaven Boulevard. Those attitudes are what makes your support of the plan idiotic, not the "NIMBY's."

Edited by BrooklynBus
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could say that about a lot of neighborhoods in the city. That's the beauty of reactivating the Rockaway Beach Line. It would revitalize the area and increase property values whereas BRT would do nothing for the neighborhood.

I honestly don't think so.  Just because that area would get that doesn't change how nasty people are in that neighborhood letting their dogs crap everywhere and not cleaning it up.  In other words, increased property values doesn't mean that people will automatically upkeep their properties any more, and further more, I don't see anything that would revitalize the area.  There aren't many big names in the area, and the box stores are fairly run down.  Heck we could compare Woodhaven to your neighborhood, Manhattan Beach which doesn't have a lot of transit options, and yet it is still a very desirable upper middle class to upper class area.  The streets are clean and property values are high because it's close to the beach, but also because people invest and maintain their property.  

Edited by Via Garibaldi 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They certainly have considered new transportation options. They even recommended studying puting buses on the Rockaway Beach Line. Doesn't sound like NIMBY's to me. But you never bothered to read the entire letter anyway. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

How would that work out, especially since some portions, more to the north, would be more than 2-3 blocks from Woodhaven Blvd, and the fact that it has to merge back to Woodhaven or some other street eventually, since there's track connections on both sides. It's not like CT fastrak, where the Bus and Rail (in this case, the LIRR/ (A)) have enough space for each other. I mean, you could be some sort of elevated busway, at those points, but that brings up costs, and it doesn't serve a good portion of Woodhaven Blvd/Cross Bay residents and stops at that point.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would that work out, especially since some portions, more to the north, would be more than 2-3 blocks from Woodhaven Blvd, and the fact that it has to merge back to Woodhaven or some other street eventually, since there's track connections on both sides. It's not like CT fastrak, where the Bus and Rail (in this case, the LIRR/ (A)) have enough space for each other. I mean, you could be some sort of elevated busway, at those points, but that brings up costs, and it doesn't serve a good portion of Woodhaven Blvd/Cross Bay residents and stops at that point.

Not only that but those neighborhoods are already crappy looking and dirty enough.  I walked down Jamaica Avenue on Saturday in Woodhaven to get over to the QM15 and boy was that depressing.  With the loud (J) train overhead and narrow dirty sidewalks, it was a walk of torture.  That's the last thing those neighborhoods need is overhead anything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not only that but those neighborhoods are already crappy looking and dirty enough. I walked down Jamaica Avenue on Saturday in Woodhaven to get over to the QM15 and boy was that depressing. With the loud (J) train overhead and narrow dirty sidewalks, it was a walk of torture. That's the last thing those neighborhoods need is overhead anything.

The neighborhood is not as bad a you say it is. If your not from Jamaica or frequently go there you are going to say a whole bunch of bad things about it. I don't know why you tend to put down everyone who is less fortunately than you and or lives in a less expensive neighborhood. Honestly what is so special about Riverdale. Okay it's quiet, crime is pretty low and you have good transit options but so what. You even go so far and categorize it separate it from the Bronx like what is all that about? There is no hiding that you live in the cities poorest borough so the last thing we need to hear you do is bash and talk about everyone else's neighborhood. And to say it's dirty, if you haven't noticed NYC is a big place and everything can't be perfectly clean. I live in Flushing and while it may not be as nice looking as Riverdale per say it still not a bad place and so is Woodhaven/Richmond Hills. Trust me there are much worst neighborhoods, a little garbage and a elevated train doesn't make a neighborhood bad.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The neighborhood is not as bad a you say it is. If your not from Jamaica or frequently go there you are going to say a whole bunch of bad things about it. I don't know why you tend to put down everyone who is less fortunately than you and or lives in a less expensive neighborhood. Honestly what is so special about Riverdale. Okay it's quiet, crime is pretty low and you have good transit options but so what. You even go so far and categorize it separate it from the Bronx like what is all that about? There is no hiding that you live in the cities poorest borough so the last thing we need to hear you do is bash and talk about everyone else's neighborhood. And to say it's dirty, if you haven't noticed NYC is a big place and everything can't be perfectly clean. I live in Flushing and while it may not be as nice looking as Riverdale per say it still not a bad place and so is Woodhaven/Richmond Hills. Trust me there are much worst neighborhoods, a little garbage and a elevated train doesn't make a neighborhood bad.

Who was talking about Jamaica, Queens? I was talking about Woodhaven and Jamaica Avenue, and in case you didn't notice, the thread is about Woodhaven, not anywhere else, so that's what we're talking about.  I frequent the area regularly since I tutor there, so I think I have eyes and can see.  I said the neighborhood is dirty and on the decline and it's true.  I never said the area was not safe because I feel safe walking around there, but clean it is not, esp. when I'm constantly dodging dog crap and all sorts of other trash.  You expect Manhattan to be dirty, but most neighborhoods outside of Manhattan tend to be cleaner since they aren't as dense.  That's what took me by surprise with Woodhaven.  It's mainly families with homes, so I would expect them to clean up better.  Jamaica Avenue is commercial and all but still. Doesn't look like there's much pride there and the area has certainly seen better days.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who was talking about Jamaica, Queens? I was talking about Woodhaven and Jamaica Avenue, and in case you didn't notice, the thread is about Woodhaven, not anywhere else, so that's what we're talking about. I frequent the area regularly since I tutor there, so I think I have eyes and can see. I said the neighborhood is dirty and on the decline and it's true. I never said the area was not safe because I feel safe walking around there, but clean it is not, esp. when I'm constantly dodging dog crap and all sorts of other trash. You expect Manhattan to be dirty, but most neighborhoods outside of Manhattan tend to be cleaner since they aren't as dense. That's what took me by surprise with Woodhaven. It's mainly families with homes, so I would expect them to clean up better. Jamaica Avenue is commercial and all but still. Doesn't look like there's much pride there and the area has certainly seen better days.

Yes I worded the beginning part wrong, I meant Jamaica Ave but I was thinking about Jamaica Queens. Your always critizing areas that are not you area or as nice as yours. You are acting like everytime you go over your always stepping over dog poop and garbage. I've been in that area many times and it isn't all that bad. Many New Yorkers in general are dirty. I was on the M103 in Midtown and this guys was eating something from Starbucks and after he was done he just left his trash on the seat.

 

 

Back to Woodhaven I'm glad to see people fighting to prevent SBS because it really doesn't save much time at all. I still remain in the stance that the Q11 and Q53 if giving the appropriate service adjustments they could have been sufficient alone. I feel like SBS is going to be the MTA's way of saying that yes we listened to the complaints here is Select bus service. At the same time I can see the MTA cutting away at local service because hey doesn't blue wrapped buses off board paying and articulated buses look attractive. Some Q11 short turns might disappear leaving uneven gaps in local service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I worded the beginning part wrong, I meant Jamaica Ave but I was thinking about Jamaica Queens. Your always critizing areas that are not you area or as nice as yours. You are acting like everytime you go over your always stepping over dog poop and garbage. I've been in that area many times and it isn't all that bad. Many New Yorkers in general are dirty. I was on the M103 in Midtown and this guys was eating something from Starbucks and after he was done he just left his trash on the seat.

 

 

Back to Woodhaven I'm glad to see people fighting to prevent SBS because it really doesn't save much time at all. I still remain in the stance that the Q11 and Q53 if giving the appropriate service adjustments they could have been sufficient alone. I feel like SBS is going to be the MTA's way of saying that yes we listened to the complaints here is Select bus service. At the same time I can see the MTA cutting away at local service because hey doesn't blue wrapped buses off board paying and articulated buses look attractive. Some Q11 short turns might disappear leaving uneven gaps in local service.

lol... Honestly, every time I go over there I'm dodging dog crap, so yes it's true because if I don't, I'll be stepping in some crap that someone else already stepped in, and there are a few blocks in particular that are just awful.  As for SBS service, it isn't the actual riders fighting it.  It's the people driving that's fighting it.  There is no question that the Q52 and Q53 would benefit from SBS service and artics. Both lines sorely need them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I honestly don't think so.  Just because that area would get that doesn't change how nasty people are in that neighborhood letting their dogs crap everywhere and not cleaning it up.  In other words, increased property values doesn't mean that people will automatically upkeep their properties any more, and further more, I don't see anything that would revitalize the area.  There aren't many big names in the area, and the box stores are fairly run down.  Heck we could compare Woodhaven to your neighborhood, Manhattan Beach which doesn't have a lot of transit options, and yet it is still a very desirable upper middle class to upper class area.  The streets are clean and property values are high because it's close to the beach, but also because people invest and maintain their property.

 

It isn't fair to compare a tiny self-enclosed area on three sides with a large area like Woodhaven. First of all we know that in any area of this city with a commercial area, that is what gets dirtiest the quickest. Manhattan Beach has no commercial area to speak of except A few stores on West End Avenue on the outskirts and a pizza store near the college, whereas Woodhaven has an entire commercial strip to keep clean. Also I would venture to guess the residential areas of Woodhaven are no more dirty than anywhere else in the city, so you are exaggerating how bad te neighborhood is. As in any area, you will find the homeowners care more than the tenants. Except for a few apartment houses, most of Manhattan Beach is all homeowners. The perecentage of renters in Woodhaven, is much higher. And you should be blaming the city as much as the residents for all the garbage. Now that winter is almost here, the Department of Sanitation removed virtually all the litter baskets from the area. My neighbor was walking his dog and after carrying the crap for a few blocks, noticed the litter receptacles he expected to see all disappeared so he left the bag near the curb and said to me "Does the city expect me to put it in my pocket?" and that's te good neighborhood you cite.

 

How would that work out, especially since some portions, more to the north, would be more than 2-3 blocks from Woodhaven Blvd, and the fact that it has to merge back to Woodhaven or some other street eventually, since there's track connections on both sides. It's not like CT fastrak, where the Bus and Rail (in this case, the LIRR/ (A)) have enough space for each other. I mean, you could be some sort of elevated busway, at those points, but that brings up costs, and it doesn't serve a good portion of Woodhaven Blvd/Cross Bay residents and stops at that point.

You make it seem like Woodhaven Blvd is this major commercial strip with high rise residential like Queens Blvd and there is an overwhelming need for the major transit to be on Woodhaven and moving that a few blocks to the east would cause a major inconvenience. The truth is there is very little commercial all along Woodaven and except for a few blocks near Forest Park, it is all low rise residential, so yes some would have to walk further, but this probably would be balanced out by those with a shorter walking distance.

 

As forthe logistics of putting buses at the ROW, that is what needs to be studied, and rail and bus are not the only two options. One has to look at people movers, etc. The QPTC report lists most of the other options and state money is available to study those options. All the MTA does is double talk. They say they have no position on the rail line because it is city owned. That is totally irrelevant since every subway line is also city owned as is Woodaven Boulevard and they certainly have a position on SBS there.

 

The MTA also as a history of contradicting themselves and of being wrong. After many years they ave finally agreed to order a few subway cars with open gangways after long insisting the tunnel curves were too short. Anyone old enough to remember will know the MTA also opposed air conditioning the subways, air conditioning the IRT, low floor buses, alternate fuel buses, articulated buses, three door articulated buses, replacing the token turnstiles because itwoud cost too much and much more. Now all of that has been done due to pressure from transit groups and politicians. It is very difficult to believe with a straight face virtually anything the MTA tells us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It isn't fair to compare a tiny self-enclosed area on three sides with a large area like Woodhaven. First of all we know that in any area of this city with a commercial area, that is what gets dirtiest the quickest. Manhattan Beach has no commercial area to speak of except A few stores on West End Avenue on the outskirts and a pizza store near the college, whereas Woodhaven has an entire commercial strip to keep clean. Also I would venture to guess the residential areas of Woodhaven are no more dirty than anywhere else in the city, so you are exaggerating how bad te neighborhood is. As in any area, you will find the homeowners care more than the tenants. Except for a few apartment houses, most of Manhattan Beach is all homeowners. The perecentage of renters in Woodhaven, is much higher. And you should be blaming the city as much as the residents for all the garbage. Now that winter is almost here, the Department of Sanitation removed virtually all the litter baskets from the area. My neighbor was walking his dog and after carrying the crap for a few blocks, noticed the litter receptacles he expected to see all disappeared so he left the bag near the curb and said to me "Does the city expect me to put it in my pocket?" and that's te good neighborhood you cite.

 

lol... For what it's worth I had never walked down Jamaica Avenue until last week, so my experiences of Woodhaven have mainly been along the residential streets where there are only houses and no apartment buildings.  Mainly leaves, dog crap and all sorts of other trash that was just dumped about and never cleaned up  I said to myself do these people ever sweep their sidewalks? The block that I tutor on I've seen people sweep including at the house that I tutor at, but aside from that, those streets are incredibly dirty considering that it's all houses.  Woodhaven Blvd is an issue in and of itself.  I've walked so many blocks without seeing a garbage can that sometimes I just give up and throw it in someone's residential garbage can even if they just had them emptied.  

 

I think Woodhaven is just going through a cultural influx where many of the people moving in are simply not Americanized, and so they let the dogs crap anywhere and simply leave it there.  That by far seems to be the biggest issue throughout the blocks that I walk on. You can see a similar issue in immigrant areas throughout the city.  The fact that you think that putting in a BRT would "revitalize" the neighborhood is just laughable. Just look at the two neighborhoods to the north of Woodhaven (Glendale and Middle Village), who are certainly very Americanized neighborhoods (mainly Irish, Italian, and German).  Those two neighborhoods have basically similar amenities, and they are much NICER areas.  Better kept, the houses look charming even though they're old, but they're kept up nicely, streets are much cleaner and sidewalks repaved and such, and they're just nice and charming neighborhoods.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They certainly have considered new transportation options. They even recommended studying puting buses on the Rockaway Beach Line. Doesn't sound like NIMBY's to me. But you never bothered to read the entire letter anyway. Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

BM5 has a point; if you look at a map, there's no easy way to link a road to the rail line in the north, and in the south it's basically impossible because the ROW runs right up to the (A). Plus you end up having to do more work than if you just have to reactivate the rail line. (The reactivation also isn't happening unless the state or city stump up money for it, since the MTA remembers what happened in the '70s and '80s when all the funding for the expansion projects was pulled out from under its feet.)

 

Not only that but those neighborhoods are already crappy looking and dirty enough.  I walked down Jamaica Avenue on Saturday in Woodhaven to get over to the QM15 and boy was that depressing.  With the loud (J) train overhead and narrow dirty sidewalks, it was a walk of torture.  That's the last thing those neighborhoods need is overhead anything. 

 

It's still possible for rail to revitalize. (I'm not going to suggest SBS is going to revitalize anything because that's a bit of a stretch.) After all, Greenpoint, Crown Heights, and the South Bronx were all pretty dingy twenty years ago, but now they're all in various stages of gentrification because the yuppies want to live next to the subway.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BM5 has a point; if you look at a map, there's no easy way to link a road to the rail line in the north, and in the south it's basically impossible because the ROW runs right up to the (A). Plus you end up having to do more work than if you just have to reactivate the rail line. (The reactivation also isn't happening unless the state or city stump up money for it, since the MTA remembers what happened in the '70s and '80s when all the funding for the expansion projects was pulled out from under its feet.)

 

 

It's still possible for rail to revitalize. (I'm not going to suggest SBS is going to revitalize anything because that's a bit of a stretch.) After all, Greenpoint, Crown Heights, and the South Bronx were all pretty dingy twenty years ago, but now they're all in various stages of gentrification because the yuppies want to live next to the subway.

You hit the nail on the head... You had/have MONEY pouring into these area.  Greenpoint back in the day was just an ordinary neighborhood and now it's become rather swank in some parts.  The other thing about Woodhaven that's odd is there aren't many banks there.  That's usually a good sign of how much money a neighborhood has.  In my neighborhood, we have a plethora of national and local banks within a 5-10 minute walking radius (Bank of America, Capital One, Wells Fargo, Chase, Apple Bank, etc.).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol... For what it's worth I had never walked down Jamaica Avenue until last week, so my experiences of Woodhaven have mainly been along the residential streets where there are only houses and no apartment buildings.  Mainly leaves, dog crap and all sorts of other trash that was just dumped about and never cleaned up  I said to myself do these people ever sweep their sidewalks? The block that I tutor on I've seen people sweep including at the house that I tutor at, but aside from that, those streets are incredibly dirty considering that it's all houses.  Woodhaven Blvd is an issue in and of itself.  I've walked so many blocks without seeing a garbage can that sometimes I just give up and throw it in someone's residential garbage can even if they just had them emptied.  

 

I think Woodhaven is just going through a cultural influx where many of the people moving in are simply not Americanized, and so they let the dogs crap anywhere and simply leave it there.  That by far seems to be the biggest issue throughout the blocks that I walk on. You can see a similar issue in immigrant areas throughout the city.  The fact that you think that putting in a BRT would "revitalize" the neighborhood is just laughable. Just look at the two neighborhoods to the north of Woodhaven (Glendale and Middle Village), who are certainly very Americanized neighborhoods (mainly Irish, Italian, and German).  Those two neighborhoods have basically similar amenities, and they are much NICER areas.  Better kept, the houses look charming even though they're old, but they're kept up nicely, streets are much cleaner and sidewalks repaved and such, and they're just nice and charming neighborhoods.

 

Hey, I never said that BRT would revitalize the neighborhood. In fact I said the exact opposite. That BRT will do nothing for the neighborhood. What I said was that reactivating the RBL with rail would raise property values and revitalize the neighborhood. We agree on the avk of litter baskets. Hey what are the dog owners supposed to do with the dog crap without litter baskets? Put it in their pocket? Maybe that us why they let their dogs crap all over .

 

Do you remember which was the worst neighborhood in the City for dog crap in the 1960s? Of course not. You are not old enough. Well it was the fashionable upper east side. I know because i went to colege there and walked those streets every day. I was wiping dog crap off my shoes on the average of three times a day. Some days it was as high as six. That is what pronted Mayor Koch who represented that distict to do something about it and it worked. Would you call that a deprived neighborhood?

 

LOL that you even consider leaves dirt. All it takes is Sanitation to miss one street sweeping and the Manhattan Beach streets are also loaded with leaves this time of year. Someties when the sweeper is not cleaned, leaves are erely teanfered from one street to another or even worse a street that is previously clean is left full of leaves. This has been going on ever since the first street sweeper was delivered.

 

When I lived in East Flatbush, I remember Utica Avenue did not have a single tree south of Eastern Parkway. After the street sweeper passed, te street was loaded with leaves. Are the residents to blame or the city? Yet you are so quick to blame the immigrant residents in Woodhaven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BM5 has a point; if you look at a map, there's no easy way to link a road to the rail line in the north, and in the south it's basically impossible because the ROW runs right up to the (A). Plus you end up having to do more work than if you just have to reactivate the rail line. (The reactivation also isn't happening unless the state or city stump up money for it, since the MTA remembers what happened in the '70s and '80s when all the funding for the expansion projects was pulled out from under its feet.)

 

It's still possible for rail to revitalize. (I'm not going to suggest SBS is going to revitalize anything because that's a bit of a stretch.) After all, Greenpoint, Crown Heights, and the South Bronx were all pretty dingy twenty years ago, but now they're all in various stages of gentrification because the yuppies want to live next to the subway.

If buses on the RBL is not feasible, a study will rule it out in five minutes. As for finding the $1 billion, isn't it funny that goverment always manages to find the money when it wants something while it is always an excuse when they don't want to do something. I don't recall Cuomo saying anything about money being a problem when he proposed the ill conceived LGA plan that doesn't even save anyone any time, yet it is going forward. There is state money available for a study and the MTA refuses to apply for it. And I just heard something about Amtrak spending $14 billion. So if the politicians want the RBL it would happen just like that, but all the political deals have already been made for BRT. That is why all except one city council member, Daneek Miller, a former bus driver, is against BRT. Maybe he knows that it wouldn't work.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, I never said that BRT would revitalize the neighborhood. In fact I said the exact opposite. That BRT will do nothing for the neighborhood. What I said was that reactivating the RBL with rail would raise property values and revitalize the neighborhood. We agree on the avk of litter baskets. Hey what are the dog owners supposed to do with the dog crap without litter baskets? Put it in their pocket? Maybe that us why they let their dogs crap all over .

 

Do you remember which was the worst neighborhood in the City for dog crap in the 1960s? Of course not. You are not old enough. Well it was the fashionable upper east side. I know because i went to colege there and walked those streets every day. I was wiping dog crap off my shoes on the average of three times a day. Some days it was as high as six. That is what pronted Mayor Koch who represented that distict to do something about it and it worked. Would you call that a deprived neighborhood?

 

LOL that you even consider leaves dirt. All it takes is Sanitation to miss one street sweeping and the Manhattan Beach streets are also loaded with leaves this time of year. Someties when the sweeper is not cleaned, leaves are erely teanfered from one street to another or even worse a street that is previously clean is left full of leaves. This has been going on ever since the first street sweeper was delivered.

 

When I lived in East Flatbush, I remember Utica Avenue did not have a single tree south of Eastern Parkway. After the street sweeper passed, te street was loaded with leaves. Are the residents to blame or the city? Yet you are so quick to blame the immigrant residents in Woodhaven.

Well if you have dogs crap on your property, would you leave it there for the next person to step in, or would you clean it up?  We have dog crap on my street also, but the homeowners, and supers clean it up and they clean the streets to keep them nice.  I live in Central Riverdale, so I'm close to the commercial strips, so sanitation comes around and sweeps those streets regularly.  I'm also active in my neighborhood.  We had a garbage problem because the cans fill up so fast.  I wrote to my elected officials and the issue was addressed immediately.  Within a week after I wrote in, I saw the area in question cleaned up, hosed down and it's been much better since then.  Those people in Woodhaven are indeed the problem.  They don't speak up so nothing gets done, in addition to having nasty people there.  You have to take pride in where you live because if you don't, no one else will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If buses on the RBL is not feasible, a study will rule it out in five minutes. As for finding the $1 billion, isn't it funny that goverment always manages to find the money when it wants something while it is always an excuse when they don't want to do something. I don't recall Cuomo saying anything about money being a problem when he proposed the ill conceived LGA plan that doesn't even save anyone any time, yet it is going forward. There is state money available for a study and the MTA refuses to apply for it. And I just heard something about Amtrak spending $14 billion. So if the politicians want the RBL it would happen just like that, but all the political deals have already been made for BRT. That is why all except one city council member, Daneek Miller, a former bus driver, is against BRT. Maybe he knows that it wouldn't work.

 

I mean, the politicians not willing to actually commit to some rational funding plan that doesn't consist of "Downstate gets $8B, so Upstate deserves $8B too!" is a problem way bigger than the MTA. This isn't the UK, where every project gets subjected to a rigorous cost-benefits analysis down to the line items courtesy of Margaret Thatcher.

 

Amtrak, the feds, NY, and NJ are dropping $20B on another pair of Hudson River Tunnels, but that's a nationally important project that is well deserving of investment (and most of that cost comes from having to condemn a block of Manhattan for a train station, so it's not too ridiculous)

Edited by bobtehpanda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.