Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Javier]

True, I would propose this:

Send the and down the Manhattan Bridge all time, becomes skip-stop like during Rush Hours other times ends at 86 Street - GraveSand.

 

gets extended down to the Mountage Tubes while runs via the old line in Manhattan and becomes a all-time subway line and runs skip-stop in Brooklyn. ends at Bay Ridge and ends at 36 Street but also ends at Bay Ridge during lay nights

 

OR

 

goes via its regular route rush hours, gets the As a Skip Stop partner then runs via the to 86 Street.

 

What do you think?

[MysteriousBtrain]

True, I would propose this:

Send the and down the Manhattan Bridge all time, becomes skip-stop like during Rush Hours other times ends at 86 Street - GraveSand.

 

gets extended down to the Mountage Tubes while runs via the old line in Manhattan and becomes a all-time subway line and runs skip-stop in Brooklyn. ends at Bay Ridge and ends at 36 Street but also ends at Bay Ridge during lay nights

 

OR

 

goes via its regular route rush hours, gets the As a Skip Stop partner then runs via the to 86 Street.

 

What do you think?

Proposal 1: How can you reroute the on the and have 3 lines on the Manhattan Bridge?

Proposal 2: Why have skip stop service when you have express service? And does Sea Beach need that much service?

[RollOver]

True, I would propose this:

Send the and down the Manhattan Bridge all time, becomes skip-stop like during Rush Hours other times ends at 86 Street - GraveSand.

 

gets extended down to the Mountage Tubes while runs via the old line in Manhattan and becomes a all-time subway line and runs skip-stop in Brooklyn. ends at Bay Ridge and ends at 36 Street but also ends at Bay Ridge during lay nights

 

OR

 

goes via its regular route rush hours, gets the As a Skip Stop partner then runs via the to 86 Street.

 

What do you think?

 

The is not officially a real line by the , the only difference between the and are the stations they skip during rush hours in the peak direction. Otherwise, damn near everyone would just simply say or / . Point blank.

 

Get it now?

 

And anyway, your whole proposal really makes no sense at all. Sorry, but it just doesn't.

Edited January 18, 2015 by RollOver

[Javier]

That's exactly why I said to give the it's own line.

 

And about having 3 lines on the Manhattan bridge, then just cut the back to 57 Street.

[RollOver]

Why does it matter that the isn't a real line though? And cutting the back to 57 St-7 Av? The would like to have a word with you when it gets rerouted to SAS 24/7.

[Armandito]

True, I would propose this:

Send the and down the Manhattan Bridge all time, becomes skip-stop like during Rush Hours other times ends at 86 Street - GraveSand.

 

gets extended down to the Mountage Tubes while runs via the old line in Manhattan and becomes a all-time subway line and runs skip-stop in Brooklyn. ends at Bay Ridge and ends at 36 Street but also ends at Bay Ridge during lay nights

 

OR

 

goes via its regular route rush hours, gets the As a Skip Stop partner then runs via the to 86 Street.

 

What do you think?

I'd rather go back to extending the SAS through that tunnel...

[Javier]

That's exactly my point, how did they send the down the in the 1900's?

[RollOver]

That's exactly my point, how did they send the down the in the 1900's?

 

There used to be a connection between the Nassau Street Line at Chambers Street and the Manhattan Bridge south tracks, but was then removed, in part, due to vastly low ridership.

[CenSin]

These are some of the dumbest ideas I've seen yet with the Montague Street tunnel. Connecting the to the Nassau Street line and sending it to Brooklyn via the tunnel is an idea that's leaps and bounds better. KISS!

[T to Dyre Avenue]

The Montague Street Tunnel used to handle up to three services when the north tracks of the Manhattan Bridge were closed, and they were the , , and (in 2003, the and ran through the tunnel on weekends when the did not run to Astoria). But nowadays, much of its available capacity is unused. How can we make the tunnel's available capacity more useful? (I once proposed connecting SAS to the tunnel via the unused connection south of the Broad Street station but scrapped this idea based on feedback.)

Montague is indeed underutilized. And a major reason for that is the major shift to Midtown Manhattan as the primary commuter destination in New York. Only one of the two lines that connect to that tunnel from Lower Manhattan also goes to Midtown - the Broadway Local . Any service using the other line - the Nassau St Subway - cannot directly serve Midtown. Lower Manhattan just doesn't seem to have the same need for service from southern Brooklyn that it once did. All Midtown service via the Montague Tunnel currently has to run via the Broadway Line, so one option is to run additional R service. But you can't really do that now due to the merging with the N at Prince St and the Q at 34th. Another option is to run the W in service via the West End Line in peak direction. Since those W trains will be coming out of Coney Island Yard early in the morning anyway, they might as well run in service. That would also help address the problems with both D and R service brought up in recent threads (so much for the D being "the most reliable line," yes?). But there aren't enough cars to accommodate this kind of service until the R179s are in service. Even then, there might still not be enough.

 

Connecting SAS to the Nassau St Line has its own issues as well and it would be decades away from happening (if ever). So that's not really an option.

 

True, I would propose this:

Send the and down the Manhattan Bridge all time, becomes skip-stop like during Rush Hours other times ends at 86 Street - GraveSand.

gets extended down to the Mountage Tubes while runs via the old line in Manhattan and becomes a all-time subway line and runs skip-stop in Brooklyn. ends at Bay Ridge and ends at 36 Street but also ends at Bay Ridge during lay nights

OR

goes via its regular route rush hours, gets the As a Skip Stop partner then runs via the to 86 Street.

What do you think?

But not this. Having skip-stop service where half the trains are going onto two different trunk lines in Manhattan effectively reduces them to "half-services". You can't serve the Broadway and Queens Blvd locals with only "half an R service." Edited January 18, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Javier]

With the SAS idea that would require modiyfying the original plan and then the wont bbe able to go to Hanover Sq AND it would require a lot of tunnling work under existing tunnels.

[CenSin]

With the SAS idea that would require modiyfying the original plan and then the wont bbe able to go to Hanover Sq AND it would require a lot of tunnling work under existing tunnels.

Still, it wouldn't result in a convoluted service pattern.

[trainfanrod]

would yall split the T line in 2 one going to brooklyn and one destination to hanover sq?

[CenSin]

would yall split the T line in 2 one going to brooklyn and one destination to hanover sq?

Then it would be two lines. One of them wouldn't be a .

[trainfanrod]

it can

[Wallyhorse]

With the SAS idea that would require modiyfying the original plan and then the wont bbe able to go to Hanover Sq AND it would require a lot of tunnling work under existing tunnels.

And that seems to be better because of the way DeKalb is currently at capacity.  There are too many other lines that use DeKalb to accommodate an SAS via Nassau as of now.

 

That's why if you are going to extend the to Brooklyn, I do it via a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that connects it to what currently is the Transit Museum at Court Street (I know that is unpopular, but I would think with 30-40 YEARS notice they would be able to find a new location for it) and then come in on the as-present unused local track/platform at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, becoming the Fulton Street local to Euclid Avenue (extended late nights to Lefferts) while the and both go express in Brooklyn.  That would eliminate the having to move from the express to the local track east/south of Hoyt and allow for more trains overall on the Fulton line, one that very likely will be one of the next candidates to be built up over the next 30-40 years. 

[Javier]

If you are going to return the Court Street station into subway station again, then the museum and people who like the museum are going to want to have a word with you because that would require removing EVERYTHING from the station including the store and also, how many other stations do you know have the same exact layout as Court Street as a terminal station?

[CenSin]

If you are going to return the Court Street station into subway station again, then the museum and people who like the museum are going to want to have a word with you because that would require removing EVERYTHING from the station including the store and also, how many other stations do you know have the same exact layout as Court Street as a terminal station?

Why does the layout have to be the same? I've had people bitch about me changing addresses before. Is that a huge reason why I shouldn't move?

[Javier]

You cant have a Transit Museam at 91 Street or 18 Street (Pointing out examples) because it would just not work. This is the reason why it has  to be at a terminal station.

[Armandito]

And that seems to be better because of the way DeKalb is currently at capacity. There are too many other lines that use DeKalb to accommodate an SAS via Nassau as of now.

 

That's why if you are going to extend the to Brooklyn, I do it via a new Schermerhorn Street tunnel that connects it to what currently is the Transit Museum at Court Street (I know that is unpopular, but I would think with 30-40 YEARS notice they would be able to find a new location for it) and then come in on the as-present unused local track/platform at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, becoming the Fulton Street local to Euclid Avenue (extended late nights to Lefferts) while the and both go express in Brooklyn. That would eliminate the having to move from the express to the local track east/south of Hoyt and allow for more trains overall on the Fulton line, one that very likely will be one of the next candidates to be built up over the next 30-40 years.

But there's only one line, the , that uses the tunnel to go to DeKalb Avenue (though the replaces the there late at night).

[CenSin]

You cant have a Transit Museam at 91 Street or 18 Street (Pointing out examples) because it would just not work. This is the reason why it has  to be at a terminal station.

Would you mind listing your criteria for a transit museum?

 

How would any of these stations be unsuitable?

• Canal Street on the Nassau Street line has an abandoned platform with the possibility to install a track exclusively for museum trains.
• Bowery on the Nassau Street line has an abandoned platform with the possibility to install a track exclusively for museum trains.
• 9 Avenue on the West End line has a lower level with two platforms and three tracks. Some tracks are used for non-revenue equipment, but I doubt all three tracks are needed. One or two tracks could be used for museum trains.
• Atlantic Avenue on the Canarsie line has two abandoned platforms with room for four tracks. The easternmost platform and trackways would require lengthening since it was partly demolished a decade ago, even without that, only two tracks have to be installed with storage facilities moved over to make room for a full Transit Museum replacement.

[MTA Dude]

Would you mind listing your criteria for a transit museum?

 

How would any of these stations be unsuitable?

 

• Canal Street on the Nassau Street line has an abandoned platform with the possibility to install a track exclusively for museum trains.
• Bowery on the Nassau Street line has an abandoned platform with the possibility to install a track exclusively for museum trains.
• 9 Avenue on the West End line has a lower level with two platforms and three tracks. Some tracks are used for non-revenue equipment, but I doubt all three tracks are needed. One or two tracks could be used for museum trains.
• Atlantic Avenue on the Canarsie line has two abandoned platforms with room for four tracks. The easternmost platform and trackways would require lengthening since it was partly demolished a decade ago, even without that, only two tracks have to be installed with storage facilities moved over to make room for a full Transit Museum replacement.

You cant have a Transit Museam at 91 Street or 18 Street (Pointing out examples) because it would just not work. This is the reason why it has  to be at a terminal station.

There you go, Javier.

 

Plus, there is a low possibility, but they could build a new museum at Essex St at the trolley terminal. Bad proposal, eh?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

would yall split the T line in 2 one going to brooklyn and one destination to hanover sq?

No, just run two 2nd Ave services. The from 125th St to Hanover Sq as planned, and a second V service from the 63rd St Tunnel and Queens. Run said V service into Brooklyn via Nassau St/Montague Tunnel, Rutgers St Tunnel, or its own tunnel leading into the Court St (Transit Museum) station.

[RollOver]

I definitely like both of CenSin and Wallyhorse's proposals about the , and transit museum. 

[Armandito]

No, just run two 2nd Ave services. The from 125th St to Hanover Sq as planned, and a second V service from the 63rd St Tunnel and Queens. Run said V service into Brooklyn via Nassau St/Montague Tunnel, Rutgers St Tunnel, or its own tunnel leading into the Court St (Transit Museum) station.

I'd go for this proposal:

 

Add express tracks to the entire SAS line and have a second SAS service run between Manhattanville and Lefferts Boulevard via 125th Street, Second Avenue, and Fulton Street. The new service would be designated as the (X), running local along 125th Street and Fulton Street and express along the entire route. The stops are as follows:

 

Manhattan:

Manhattanville-12th Avenue

Saint Nicholas Avenue

Lenox Avenue

125th Street

72nd Street

55th Street

42nd Street

14th Street

Houston Street

Grand Street

Hanover Square

Whitehall Street-South Ferry

 

Brooklyn:

Court Street

Hoyt-Schermerhorn Streets

Lafayette Avenue

Clinton-Washington Avenues

Franklin Avenue

Nostrand Avenue

Kingston-Throop Avenues

Utica Avenue

Ralph Avenue

Rockaway Avenue

Broadway Junction

Liberty Avenue

Van Siclen Avenue

Shepherd Avenue

Euclid Avenue

Grant Avenue*

 

Queens:

80th Street*

88th Street*

Rockaway Boulevard*

104th Street*

111th Street*

Ozone Park-Lefferts Boulevard*

 

*Late nights only

 

In this plan, the is extended to Lefferts Boulevard and runs express in Brooklyn at all times except late nights when the (X) replaces it in Brooklyn and Queens. All other times, (X) trains terminate at Euclid Avenue. Also, the will not run late nights; the (X) makes all stops during those times. Lastly, trains will no longer serve Lefferts Boulevard, since the and (X) will serve it during the day and late at night, respectively.

Edited January 18, 2015 by lara8710