Bus Lane Improvements Finally Coming to 5th Avenue

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The DOT recently implemented two bus lanes on Madison Avenue that are in affect 24/7.  The two bus lanes for 5th Avenue will run from 61st to 34th street and will also be in affect 24/7.  There has been one bus lane along most of 5th Avenue, but these improvements should help improve bus speeds through a stretch of streets that almost become parking lots in recent years.  Per the DOT's own figures:

IMPORTANCE TO BUS NETWORK:

• 39 different bus routes coming from all 5 boros use this portion of 5th Av.

• 9 Brooklyn Routes

• 9 Bronx Routes

• 6 Manhattan Routes

• 4 Queens Routes

• 11 Staten Island Routes

• 50-130 buses per hour throughout the day

• ~75,000 daily bus passengers

• Bus delays on midtown 5th Av can impact reliability city-wide

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/5th-ave-61-34th-sept2017.pdf

[checkmatechamp13]

Awesome to hear that buses are being allocated their fair share of space. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Seriously. The abysmal bus lane as it is is not enough. However, I hope that they are enforced. On top of one bus lane not being enough, there's also the issue with cars, taxis, and trucks all somehow weaving into the lane for whatever reason. Anyone there during the day on weekdays (and even on weekends) knows how bad traffic can get, especially nearing 34 Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Seriously. The abysmal bus lane as it is is not enough. However, I hope that they are enforced. On top of one bus lane not being enough, there's also the issue with cars, taxis, and trucks all somehow weaving into the lane for whatever reason. Anyone there during the day on weekdays (and even on weekends) knows how bad traffic can get, especially nearing 34 Street.

That's why I'm glad this will be 24/7 because on the weekends especially 5th has become HORRIBLE. I take the express bus from meetings and I'm like where is all of this congestion coming from. Cabs and cars all over the damn place, and the express buses are like 20-30 minutes behind schedule. On Madison Avenue it's been great. Some cars weave in and out but most adhere to the lanes because the cops do random blitzes. I'm sure they must have cameras installed and may review them to see who is doing what.

[checkmatechamp13]

21 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Seriously. The abysmal bus lane as it is is not enough. However, I hope that they are enforced. On top of one bus lane not being enough, there's also the issue with cars, taxis, and trucks all somehow weaving into the lane for whatever reason. Anyone there during the day on weekdays (and even on weekends) knows how bad traffic can get, especially nearing 34 Street.

To be fair, you're legally allowed to use those lanes for right turns. But I do agree they need enforcement to keep it moving smoothly. 

[Deucey]

Not to knock a good idea - since the problem with NYC congestion outside of midtown, bus lanes and HOV lane efficiency is the lack of passing lanes, but why do 39 buses need to run down one avenue? Seems another way to fix this would be rationalizing routings to use 5th Av less.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

39 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Not to knock a good idea - since the problem with NYC congestion outside of midtown, bus lanes and HOV lane efficiency is the lack of passing lanes, but why do 39 buses need to run down one avenue? Seems another way to fix this would be rationalizing routings to use 5th Av less.

And use what exactly? Forget using 7th Avenue and Park Avenue. You really want buses to deal with Times Square?

5th/Madison Avenues are generally close to the center of Manhattan, so commuters going to work in East or West Midtown are a similar distance away from 5th Avenue. Changing that would make it harder for commuters to get to the bus. The only other option would be to make 5th Avenue a two-way busway in Midtown (which would likely not fly by).

Not all the bus routes are using 5th Avenue at one time. The time period where most of the service runs down on 5th at any given moment is in the PM between 44 and 42 Street. The initial bus routes on 5th Avenue at the proposed intersection are the M1, M2, M3, and M4, and the Bronx Expresses (13). The Q32 doesn't turn onto 5th Avenue until 60 Street (14), and the M5 turns onto 5th one block later (15). Then the Brooklyn Expresses, the QV Expresses and most of the Staten Island Expresses all join in at 57 Street (35). You then have the X1/7/9 joining in at 50 Street (38). The M55 joins at 42 Street (39), and then the SI expresses to Manhattan turn at 42 Street (37). The M4 and Q32 turn off at 37 Street (35). ALSO, the X10, X12, X27, and X28 do not run on 5th Avenue when the X10B, X42, X37, and X38 operate (respectively), the X63/64/68 only operate in the AM, the X17 starts at 40 Street when the X17J runs.

Let's also not forget the private operators as well who use 5th Avenue (Academy, Monsey Trails, Coach USA, etc.). You can't force them to change routes. This change is sorely needed, and should be implemented on other avenues (like 6th Avenue). 

[B35 via Church]

43 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

Let's also not forget the private operators as well who use 5th Avenue (Academy, Monsey Trails, Coach USA, etc.). You can't force them to change routes....

This is exactly what I was going to point out after having read the OP - that it's not including all the private services that also utilize 5th, so it's even more BPH & more riders being transported......

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Not to knock a good idea - since the problem with NYC congestion outside of midtown, bus lanes and HOV lane efficiency is the lack of passing lanes, but why do 39 buses need to run down one avenue? Seems another way to fix this would be rationalizing routings to use 5th Av less.

- 5th & 6th are as centralized as you're going to get in Manhattan.... That explains the myriad of MTA express bus routes & other commuter services.... You can only have so many variants of routes directly serving the east side or the west side.....

- As far as the Manhattan local buses on 5th, it's for the good of the (local) grid network....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Not to knock a good idea - since the problem with NYC congestion outside of midtown, bus lanes and HOV lane efficiency is the lack of passing lanes, but why do 39 buses need to run down one avenue? Seems another way to fix this would be rationalizing routings to use 5th Av less.

As B35 said, 5th Avenue allows you to serve riders that work in East Midtown and West Midtown since it is the divider for East and West in Manhattan. Additionally, you'll notice that 5th Avenue has no subway directly on the corridor (the rich folks on 5th vehemently opposed subways and asked for bus service instead going back many years ago, and that arrangement exists today since 5th has always been the crème de la crème) so the buses are needed, otherwise you have to backtrack TO the subway then backtrack back to 5th again, which I have done plenty of times. Having the buses there saves at least 10-20 minutes when you eliminate all of that walking.

[bobtehpanda]

On 10/12/2017 at 4:06 PM, Deucey said:

Not to knock a good idea - since the problem with NYC congestion outside of midtown, bus lanes and HOV lane efficiency is the lack of passing lanes, but why do 39 buses need to run down one avenue? Seems another way to fix this would be rationalizing routings to use 5th Av less.

It's essentially a bus trunk line in replacement of a subway.

In any case, the other routing options are either less of a destination, more of a traffic nightmare, or would be caught dead over having buses on the street (lookin at you, Park Av). Routing people an extra avenue block away would be quite inconvenient.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It's essentially a bus trunk line in replacement of a subway.

In any case, the other routing options are either less of a destination, more of a traffic nightmare, or would be caught dead over having buses on the street (lookin at you, Park Av). Routing people an extra avenue block away would be quite inconvenient.

Yes, 5th and Park Avenue, along with Madison is some of the most expensive real estate in the country, and money talks.

[Deucey]

6 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yes, 5th and Park Avenue, along with Madison is some of the most expensive real estate in the country, and money talks.

Given this and other answers, along with the weakness of painted lines, wouldn't it make more sense to convert two lanes on 5th and Madison Avs (to a busway with a physical separation from regular traffic - plastic barriers like the Hudson River tunnel approaches or a movable barrier like the old Tappan Zee middle lane - so all the bus traffic moves faster by avoiding mixed traffic?

[checkmatechamp13]

34 minutes ago, Deucey said:

Given this and other answers, along with the weakness of painted lines, wouldn't it make more sense to convert two lanes on 5th and Madison Avs (to a busway with a physical separation from regular traffic - plastic barriers like the Hudson River tunnel approaches or a movable barrier like the old Tappan Zee middle lane - so all the bus traffic moves faster by avoiding mixed traffic?

Right turns are still permitted from the bus lane, so you can't physically separate them from the rest of the street (also, if cars tried to turn right in front of the bus, that would pose its own safety issues, especially with all the pedestrian traffic in Manhattan). 

[Deucey]

10 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Right turns are still permitted from the bus lane, so you can't physically separate them from the rest of the street (also, if cars tried to turn right in front of the bus, that would pose its own safety issues, especially with all the pedestrian traffic in Manhattan). 

I'm trying to remember the intersections, but there are a few in the city where two roadways going the same direction have phased signalling where one roadway turns while the other is stopped. Flushing Av on the BQE comes to mind.

So doing the same thing on 5 Av, but with a shorter signal duration for the bus lanes, or having a signaled right turn lane to make protected turns, is possible.

[MTA Bus]

Can 3rd Avenue get this kind of treatment? I should not have to pass 3 M101s, 2 M102s, and a M103 ON A CITIBIKE.

[Cait Sith]

30 minutes ago, MTA Bus said:

Can 3rd Avenue get this kind of treatment? I should not have to pass 3 M101s, 2 M102s, and a M103 ON A CITIBIKE.

3rd Avenue could have if it wasn't for that stop on 3rd & 57th.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, Deucey said:

Given this and other answers, along with the weakness of painted lines, wouldn't it make more sense to convert two lanes on 5th and Madison Avs (to a busway with a physical separation from regular traffic - plastic barriers like the Hudson River tunnel approaches or a movable barrier like the old Tappan Zee middle lane - so all the bus traffic moves faster by avoiding mixed traffic?

Physical barriers would be a bad idea because sometimes cars still park in one of the two bus lanes to pick up or let out passengers or even wait for them for a few minutes, in addition to the back-ups that occur on the side streets, forcing ALL traffic into the car lanes to get around. Since right turns are also permitted, it's better to keep it as is.