Express Bus Advocacy Group

[AJ023]

I don’t get the appeal with the express bus.  Long Island Railroad is a faster ride into Manhattan.  The only convenience to me would be I would be able to get picked up right by where I live.  On the way back, the drop off location is in a different location another block away.  There are also other Express bus routes that have weekend and longer weekly hours which are also a block away for pickup and drop off.  

The Express bus makes sense for a one seat ride in Staten Island so you can bypass the Staten Island ferry and it also makes sense in transit deserts which are far from the Long Island Railroad.  But it doesn’t seem to compete favorably in areas like mine.  

The new Prevost X3-45 arriving at the depot of College Point where the bus are dispatched from in my area are very nice buses.  The seating looks to be the basic standard configuration from photos I have seen but I give MTA credit for using the screens for map and location information.  Greyhound’s X3-45 came standard with the monitors but they were unused but they did change the seats.  But considering there is no time savings for me compared to LIRR, they don’t seem to make sense.  A better usage would be to use Prevost’s on transit desert routes and Staten Island and other high density usage routes and phase down the older equipment.  In areas like mine, a better solution is to have commuter buses connect to the LIRR station rather than multiple express bus routes stopping in the area.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by AJ023

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

45 minutes ago, AJ023 said:

I don’t get the appeal with the express bus.  Long Island Railroad is a faster ride into Manhattan.  The only convenience to me would be I would be able to get picked up right by where I live.  On the way back, the drop off location is in a different location another block away.  There are also other Express bus routes that have weekend and longer weekly hours which are also a block away for pickup and drop off.  

The Express bus makes sense for a one seat ride in Staten Island so you can bypass the Staten Island ferry and it also makes sense in transit deserts which are far from the Long Island Railroad.  But it doesn’t seem to compete favorably in areas like mine.  

The new Prevost X3-45 arriving at the depot of College Point where the bus are dispatched from in my area are very nice buses.  The seating looks to be the basic standard configuration from photos I have seen but I give MTA credit for using the screens for map and location information.  Greyhound’s X3-45 came standard with the monitors but they were unused but they did change the seats.  But considering there is no time savings for me compared to LIRR, they don’t seem to make sense.  A better usage would be to use Prevost’s on transit desert routes and Staten Island and other high density usage routes and phase down the older equipment.  In areas like mine, a better solution is to have commuter buses connect to the LIRR station rather than multiple express bus routes stopping in the area.  

You're only considering time savings getting into Manhattan from when you get on the respective mode (LIRR vs. express bus). This doesn't take into account that the LIRR is not convenient or economical for everyone. The amount of coverage that the LIRR provides in eastern Queens (towards Penn Station) isn't plentiful. Getting someone in Beechhurst to the Port Washington Branch or someone living in Fresh Meadows to either Jamaica LIRR or a Port Washington station would take quite a while by bus. In that timeframe, the express buses would likely be somewhere on their express segment anyways.  Additionally, the LIRR doesn't help those going to East Midtown or to certain areas north of 34th Street in Midtown. The express bus would more likely provide a one-seat ride for riders. 

You could transfer to the subway or bus, sure, but the LIRR doesn't provide a transfer to the subway, so that means you have to pay more. The same thing applies when you're going to/from the LIRR station in Queens. Here's a breakdown of what that means:

From Eastern Queens to Manhattan:

Single Fare (Off-Peak):

• $10.50 via LIRR + Subway/Bus Combo ($7.75 +$2.75)
• $6.75 via express bus 

Monthly: 

• $234 via LIRR only, with no transfer to subway/buses
• $248 via express bus, with transfer options possible

You could walk to save up, but then that would negate the LIRR being a faster option. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[checkmatechamp13]

@BM5 via Woodhaven There's also UniTicket for $41 per month. So it's more expensive, but may be faster depending on the exact circumstances.

It would be nice if there was a combined commuter rail/express bus pass available. The commuter fares really shouldn't be as high as they are and with as little flexibility as they currently offer.

[AJ023]

In my area the LIRR is faster even after taking into consideration walking to the LIRR station which is nearby.  LIRR is actually off peak now at 6.50 from ticket machines (Zone 1 to 1) so it actually is cheaper till they resume regular peak fares.  Also City ticket is also available on weekends for 4.50.  
 

In other zones, I agree with you and Eastern Queens has a lot of transit deserts as well as higher fares as it would be zone 1 to 3 so express bus is definitely more worthwhile there.  The reality is the MTA heavily subsidizes express bus routes.  

The Prevost’s are nice buses for long trips and a short hop from NYC to NYC seem like overkill as some of the express bus routes seem to be shorter runs.  I realize the bus picks up passengers earlier than my stop but they don’t seem to go that far in terms of distance.

Subway is also available by me directly which is even cheaper and could be faster than Express bus once CBTC signals are operational but its generally more crowded with less available seating and other issues.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by AJ023

[Via Garibaldi 8]

30 minutes ago, AJ023 said:

In my area the LIRR is faster even after taking into consideration walking to the LIRR station which is nearby.  LIRR is actually off peak now at 6.50 from ticket machines (Zone 1 to 1) so it actually is cheaper till they resume regular peak fares.  Also City ticket is also available on weekends for 4.50.  
 

In other zones, I agree with you and Eastern Queens has a lot of transit deserts as well as higher fares as it would be zone 1 to 3 so express bus is definitely more worthwhile there.  The reality is the MTA heavily subsidizes express bus routes.  

The Prevost’s are nice buses for long trips and a short hop from NYC to NYC seem like overkill as some of the express bus routes seem to be shorter runs.  I realize the bus picks up passengers earlier than my stop but they don’t seem to go that far in terms of distance.

Subway is also available by me directly which is even cheaper and could be faster than Express bus once CBTC signals are operational but its generally more crowded with less available seating and other issues.  

The reality is the MTA heavily subsides the LIRR, just as it does the MNRR. They are all commuter services, so they will naturally have a higher cost structure. The LIRR is faster for people going to Penn Station. The express buses serve different areas, often times away from the LIRR, so no real comparison. 

[QM1to6Ave]

Express buses also tend to have more stops in a smaller pick-up area than LIRR, which is useful if you don't have a car to drive to the LIRR. For me, for example, the nearest LIRR stations have no to little parking, so I need to take a bus or cab to the LIRR to catch it to Atlantic Terminal, where I go for work every so often.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Express buses also tend to have more stops in a smaller pick-up area than LIRR, which is useful if you don't have a car to drive to the LIRR. For me, for example, the nearest LIRR stations have no to little parking, so I need to take a bus or cab to the LIRR to catch it to Atlantic Terminal, where I go for work every so often.

As someone who has three express buses and MNRR access, I take the express bus more because it goes to more places that I travel to versus MNRR, and quite frankly is more convenient overall. The only time it's useful for me to take MNRR is if I'm going to Grand Central, and by the time I get to the station, then wait for the train, it can often times be the same amount of time as taking the express bus, not to mention more expensive. Sometimes I go by car to the station. Other times I just walk. It's about a 15 minute walk from my place. Add the time of the train and the time waiting (I give myself a 5-10 minute cushion, as they sometimes come early), and it's the same as the express bus. The only time it really pays for me to take it is if traffic is bad. Otherwise, no real difference.

[QM1to6Ave]

45 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

As someone who has three express buses and MNRR access, I take the express bus more because it goes to more places that I travel to versus MNRR, and quite frankly is more convenient overall. The only time it's useful for me to take MNRR is if I'm going to Grand Central, and by the time I get to the station, then wait for the train, it can often times be the same amount of time as taking the express bus, not to mention more expensive. Sometimes I go by car to the station. Other times I just walk. It's about a 15 minute walk from my place. Add the time of the train and the time waiting (I give myself a 5-10 minute cushion, as they sometimes come early), and it's the same as the express bus. The only time it really pays for me to take it is if traffic is bad. Otherwise, no real difference.

And, the WiFi on the express bus is a nice little bonus. Who knows if they’ll get rid of it though, I remember seeing that as a potential savings to counteract COVID losses 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

And, the WiFi on the express bus is a nice little bonus. Who knows if they’ll get rid of it though, I remember seeing that as a potential savings to counteract COVID losses 

I doubt it. Most of the time they get wireless as a deal. Definitely the case with the subways. Not sure about the express buses.

[AJ023]

Express bus are known to get the highest subsidy in the MTA system.  The NYC ferry isn’t part of the MTA system but is also heavily subsidized by NYC.

Each  transit option competes against each other but the express bus does integrate with the Metrocard system and one can get an unlimited 7 day express bus, bus and subway pass.  Some areas inside city limits have access to bus, express bus, subway, and LIRR including multiple express bus stops clustered in a single area for different lines.  The routes do go further away in the boroughs but to me it seems like one can merge some of the stops together especially if some express bus are going underutilized.  
 

I do admit the Prevost X3-45 are the nicest bus in the MTA system and I presume the most expensive as well by cost per bus.  They compete against the finest luxury coach bus models.  

Edited May 17, 2021 by AJ023

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 minutes ago, AJ023 said:

Express bus are known to get the highest subsidy in the MTA system.  The NYC ferry isn’t part of the MTA system but is also heavily subsidized by NYC.

Each  transit option competes against each other but the express bus does integrate with the Metrocard system and one can get an unlimited 7 day express bus, bus and subway pass.  Some areas inside city limits have access to bus, express bus, subway, and LIRR including multiple express bus stops clustered in a single area for different lines.  The routes do go further away in the boroughs but to me it seems like one can merge some of the stops together especially if some express bus are going underutilized.  
 

I do admit the Prevost X3-45 are the nicest bus in the MTA system and I presume the most expensive as well by cost per bus.  They compete against the finest luxury coach bus models.  

We heard you the first time. You have options. Some people just have an express bus and that's it. Be thankful you're in Forest Hills or someplace where you can hop on the subway, LIRR or bus. I had my express bus service cut years ago in my old neighborhood, and that led to an hour extra in my commute round trip each day, so I know what it's like to have limited, unreliable options. The other alternative (local bus to the ferry to the subway) was super unreliable (esp. the local bus), which was why I switched to the express bus to begin with. 

Now I have MNRR or three express buses, and the express buses are the easiest to reach, and each serves its own purpose.

[AJ023]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

We heard you the first time. You have options. Some people just have an express bus and that's it. Be thankful you're in Forest Hills or someplace where you can hop on the subway, LIRR or bus. I had my express bus service cut years ago in my old neighborhood, and that led to an hour extra in my commute round trip each day, so I know what it's like to have limited, unreliable options. The other alternative (local bus to the ferry to the subway) was super unreliable (esp. the local bus), which was why I switched to the express bus to begin with. 

Now I have MNRR or three express buses, and the express buses are the easiest to reach, and each serves its own purpose.

Express bus should have been located in the area you needed it and less on the redundant routes.  Also the bus should be run more efficiently so each bus capacity is utilized as much as possible.  

New express bus cost roughly 600-700k each per bus even before bus driver, diesel fuel and servicing costs long term, and a ride costs 6.75.  For comparison sake, a new 2021 Mercedes S580 is approx 120k each.  Even though a bus costs more to buy outright, people still see express bus as inferior to a more expensive private ride on ridesharing or other options.  

[paulrivera]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:31 PM, QM1to6Ave said:

And, the WiFi on the express bus is a nice little bonus. Who knows if they’ll get rid of it though, I remember seeing that as a potential savings to counteract COVID losses 

As long as Cuomo is in office, the MTA will have Wifi on the buses.

I remember one time the MTA tried to cut the Wifi and once Albany caught wind of it, they made the MTA backtrack real quick.

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

I wonder when the MTA is planning on getting rid of the "FARE REQUIRED" scroll on the express buses.  I think we get the point by now.  It's so annoying to have to stare at a bus for 10 seconds just to figure out if it's the one you want, especially because unless you have 20/20 vision, you only get a few seconds to flag down the drivers.

[QM1to6Ave]

4 hours ago, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

I wonder when the MTA is planning on getting rid of the "FARE REQUIRED" scroll on the express buses.  I think we get the point by now.  It's so annoying to have to stare at a bus for 10 seconds just to figure out if it's the one you want, especially because unless you have 20/20 vision, you only get a few seconds to flag down the drivers.

Especially since the fare was always required on Express buses!

[ViaWaterViaChurch]

19 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Especially since the fare was always required on Express buses!

Yeah I understood it back in the beginning of the pandemic when they stopped charging to get on the local buses, but c'mon now.  They've been charging fares since last August.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

6 hours ago, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

I wonder when the MTA is planning on getting rid of the "FARE REQUIRED" scroll on the express buses.  I think we get the point by now.  It's so annoying to have to stare at a bus for 10 seconds just to figure out if it's the one you want, especially because unless you have 20/20 vision, you only get a few seconds to flag down the drivers.

 

1 hour ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Especially since the fare was always required on Express buses!

It always seemed as if it stayed on the "FARE REQUIRED" sign longer than the others. Also, "MASKS REQUIRED" required followed that, which is annoying when the bus is coming.

[GreatOne2k]

4 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Especially since the fare was always required on Express buses!

Express buses were free overnight last year (except Staten Island).

Edited May 19, 2021 by GreatOne2k

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 hours ago, ViaWaterViaChurch said:

I wonder when the MTA is planning on getting rid of the "FARE REQUIRED" scroll on the express buses.  I think we get the point by now.  It's so annoying to have to stare at a bus for 10 seconds just to figure out if it's the one you want, especially because unless you have 20/20 vision, you only get a few seconds to flag down the drivers.

Don't expect it to change anytime soon. There was talk of perhaps having the signs flash for a shorter period of time, but that would require making changes to hundreds of express buses. I agree about it being annoying, which is why the conversation came up. 

I will however check on this. I had a conversation with someone about it a while ago and haven't heard anything.

Edited May 20, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

3 hours ago, GreatOne2k said:

Express buses were free overnight last year (except Staten Island).

I was waiting for someone to bring this up lol...I was referring to the standard scheduled service, which always required payment. Considering most of the overnight extra express service barely ran, I don't even consider that real service lol

[AJ023]

17 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I was waiting for someone to bring this up lol...I was referring to the standard scheduled service, which always required payment. Considering most of the overnight extra express service barely ran, I don't even consider that real service lol

I didn’t even know overnight express bus existed.  Most lines by me I believe are M to F and limited hours.  Doesn’t seem to be anything new regarding Express bus services.  Even the schedules have not been changed in awhile.  

[QM1to6Ave]

1 hour ago, AJ023 said:

I didn’t even know overnight express bus existed.  Most lines by me I believe are M to F and limited hours.  Doesn’t seem to be anything new regarding Express bus services.  Even the schedules have not been changed in awhile.  

On SI, there are some 24 hour express lines. For the other boros, during the height of covid, they (poorly) ran overnight service for healthcare workers and other essential folks. The service barely ran, and buses were initially overrun by homeless people. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

On SI, there are some 24 hour express lines. For the other boros, during the height of covid, they (poorly) ran overnight service for healthcare workers and other essential folks. The service barely ran, and buses were initially overrun by homeless people. 

Currently, there is only one official express bus line with 24/7 service, and that's the SIM1C. I definitely can remember running out of bars on Saturday nights with friends, half drunk and hopping into cabs and telling the guy to haul @ss down to the last stop for the last X1 back to Staten Island before the line became 24/7. lol Fun times... 

There are a few lines that come close to 24/7 service like the BxM7 and the BxM9, but they stop running shortly after 1am and then both resume at 4:45am (during the week anyway). What I would like to push for is to keep the BxM7 overnight service, which makes all BxM8 stops along Bruckner Blvd as well, which would then give areas like Country Club, parts of Throggs Neck and Co-op City an option, since all of those areas are transit starved, with no subway.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Some updates on things we are working on:

-A SIM23 commuter reached out to us about their stop being filthy and overrun with garbage and weeds... We got it cleaned up in less than a week. Thanks to Councilman Borrelli and the volunteers for making this happen.

Before...

After...

-We have received requests for earlier QM2 and QM20 service from Bay Terrace. The goal is for a 5:20am QM20 bus and a 5:30am QM2 trip from Bay Terrace during the week. We believe that a cost neutral move could allow for such service, and mitigate traffic issues as many riders continue to drive into Manhattan, creating unnecessary congestion.

[QM1to6Ave]

On 5/21/2021 at 9:36 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Some updates on things we are working on:

-A SIM23 commuter reached out to us about their stop being filthy and overrun with garbage and weeds... We got it cleaned up in less than a week. Thanks to Councilman Borrelli and the volunteers for making this happen.

Before...

After...

-We have received requests for earlier QM2 and QM20 service from Bay Terrace. The goal is for a 5:20am QM20 bus and a 5:30am QM2 trip from Bay Terrace during the week. We believe that a cost neutral move could allow for such service, and mitigate traffic issues as many riders continue to drive into Manhattan, creating unnecessary congestion.

Thank you as usual! Crazy that the bus stop was allowed to get that bad...I expect that from NJT bus stops, not MTA

Re: QM2/20, yeah, sounds like they could do the same adjustments they made to the QM5 to start it earlier but keep it cost-neutral. Those early morning rides QM5 continue to be pretty full when I take them, with everyone still trying to avoid rush hour crowds