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Union Tpke

More delays on projects due to G.O. Incompetance

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30 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

You would have to suspend all GO's on CPW, 6th Avenue and most likely also 4th Avenue in order to provide more (D) service. It's much easier to just schedule GOs on the the (4) and (B)(D) when there's not 50,000 people trying to get to a Yankee game (which is October to March plus every weekend they're out of town).

Then if it's so damn important for people to see a game at a stadium, have the Yankees play in Queens while the work is being done.

All of this focus on one place is bullshit, especially since the bulk of people using the trains up that way don't give a shit about whether or not the Yankees are playing.

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3 minutes ago, Lex said:

Then if it's so damn important for people to see a game at a stadium, have the Yankees play in Queens while the work is being done.

All of this focus on one place is bullshit, especially since the bulk of people using the trains up that way don't give a shit about whether or not the Yankees are playing.

You're entirely missing the point.

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50 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I was just about to edit my comment but I'll add it here as a new one since RR503 quoted me already...

Targeted week/month/however long outages on the (4) to replace track on the el with the (B) and (D) as alternatives is a good idea, and would most likely increase worker productivity. However the best time for this kind of work would be during the baseball off season.

Even then work would have to be restricted on a few days for College Football games (including the Pinstripe Bowl) and some NYC FC soccer games.

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4 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

You're entirely missing the point.

Basically, you really want me to care about the Yankees.

I don't, especially since bending to the Yankees does jack shit to help the regulars, the vast majority of whom are hardly -- if ever -- riding to go to Yankee Stadium. At the very least, a one-time disruption that addresses everything will ultimately benefit both passengers and the MTA, whereas trying not to do so just to placate those who insist on throwing a good chunk of their money away just to watch games at the stadium only serves to prolong the work period and significantly reduce wear uniformity.

TL;DR: The Yankees are not that damn important. Stop focusing on them.

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The argument that you would need to kill a ton of other G.Os to run regular service is tiring... cut the (4) past 149th, end CPW/6th exp G.Os and then run the (B) on the weekends (or have (D) short turns to 2nd). It shouldn’t be difficult to choose fixing infrastructure which affects many on a daily basis over servicing a bunch of people who show up for a few hours for recreational entertainment...

Another thing: Why don’t they install a crossover at Broadway-Lafayette between the southbound local and express to end that annoying and confusing (D)(F) swap G.O?

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Every time I pas through there, I look for a spot they could place it, but it would be difficult, and require the removal of many columns, which then would require massive structural work (the ceiling) to replace the support.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

The argument that you would need to kill a ton of other G.Os to run regular service is tiring... cut the (4) past 149th, end CPW/6th exp G.Os and then run the (B) on the weekends (or have (D) short turns to 2nd). It shouldn’t be difficult to choose fixing infrastructure which affects many on a daily basis over servicing a bunch of people who show up for a few hours for recreational entertainment...

Another thing: Why don’t they install a crossover at Broadway-Lafayette between the southbound local and express to end that annoying and confusing (D)(F) swap G.O?

MTA would likely cut the weekend (4) all together and just extend the weekend (5) to Utica / New Lots Avenue, good for weekend late night (2) / (5) riders, bad for weekend daytime (4) / (5) / (6) riders. 

Edited by GreatOne2k

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8 hours ago, Lex said:

Basically, you really want me to care about the Yankees.

I don't, especially since bending to the Yankees does jack shit to help the regulars, the vast majority of whom are hardly -- if ever -- riding to go to Yankee Stadium. At the very least, a one-time disruption that addresses everything will ultimately benefit both passengers and the MTA, whereas trying not to do so just to placate those who insist on throwing a good chunk of their money away just to watch games at the stadium only serves to prolong the work period and significantly reduce wear uniformity.

TL;DR: The Yankees are not that damn important. Stop focusing on them.

You're still missing the point. Yankee Stadium is only one high profile example that was already being discussed in this thread. 

Important points of interest in the city (Yankee Stadium and Citi Field being two of them) still require full service during events to handle the passenger volume. This isn't some commuter railroad where ridership plummets on weekends, this is the New York City Subway where people are actually trying to get to places and events on weekends. You can't just turn over the railroad to MoW entirely and say "have fun" without giving some thought for where large numbers of rider are trying to go because that's how they switch to Uber or Lyft and never come back (which is already starting to happen but I digress).

Besides I already said that week/month long outages during the offseason were a good idea and everyone else agreed so I don't see why you're continuing this tangent.

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Adding on to the above, let's again go back to the productivity question: there are so many ways we could be getting more done with less track access. Assuming we need outages throughout the year to simply maintain a state of good repair without questioning the efficiency calculations that underpin that statement is again unwise, given just how much unnecessary cost is incurred in NYCT's MoW program. 

Also, I do really want to push back on this idea that we can gradate users. NYCT is supposed to provide a holistic transportation system to the city, which means it does indeed have to function for special events. Balancing that function with the good of regular riders over some given stretch of track is of course an important question, but we posit it can be done if we're simply more creative with our GO protocols. 

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Honestly, no service is better than poor service. At least with no service, there's some expectation that normal (relatively good) service will return. An eternal state of poor service just forces people onto the rideshares permanently.

Also, a 4-track line with 15 tph has 25% the capacity of a normal line. That's almost as bad as the weekend (L) (3 tph = 20% of normal 15 tph service) and everyone is calling for that to be shut down.

As for outer lines such as QBL, LIRR + MNR have a lot of capacity and riders should be allowed to ride on them at much more discounted rates.

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Let’s see how the off season thing would work. Yankees/ Mets play from April to September ( October with any luck) , right? Both stadiums are located on elevated lines. Let’s say from October to March is conflict free. Most elevated structure work is done during daylight hours . Correct me if I’m wrong but we are talking about NYC weather spanning the Fall to early Spring. Exactly how much time are we gonna shut down said  line(s) ? Seems like everyone is arguing the pros and cons but ignoring the two most important factors, IMO, Mother Nature and the residents of the affected area. Carry on.

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1 hour ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but we are talking about NYC weather spanning the Fall to early Spring.

I completely forgot about that issue. Thanks for the reminder.

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