Brooklyn Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Ex696]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

23 hours ago, Ex696 said:

On the topic of the B2 being eliminated, the B100 is being marketed as it's alternative and it's service isn't being increased at all, and the B100 is already crowded during rush hours as is...it is nice the B100 is rerouted along Avenue R so they don't lose service...but most people at Kings Plaza will likely use the B9 as their Kings Plaza-Brighton Line connection instead of taking a bus then transferring to the B100...after all, the B9 having been extended to Kings Plaza was the whole reason the B2 lost a huge amount of ridership.

Most would resort to taking the B3.

What would make them take the B3 over the B9?

 

[Lex]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

What would make them take the B3 over the B9?

 

A ride on the  would be longer from Avenue U, but the B3 comes with a considerably shorter trip to/from Kings Plaza and a generally higher frequency (on paper, at least, as consistency is another matter entirely). It helps that neither the B2 nor B3 cross Kings Highway, whereas the B9 does.

[Ex696]

18 minutes ago, Lex said:

A ride on the  would be longer from Avenue U, but the B3 comes with a considerably shorter trip to/from Kings Plaza and a generally higher frequency (on paper, at least, as consistency is another matter entirely). It helps that neither the B2 nor B3 cross Kings Highway, whereas the B9 does.

What's the problem with crossing Kings Highway? Traffic?

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Ex696 said:

What would make them take the B3 over the B9?

For starters, people already take the B3 from the Brighton Line to Kings Plaza, moreso than is done with the B9 - and that is with the current existence of the B2..... @Lex already answered as to why.

The question for you is, what makes you think most people at Kings Plaza would end up taking the B9 more?

Edited July 25, 2023 by B35 via Church

[mikecintel]

10 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Most would resort to taking the B3.

IDK who the hell these people are; I'm not on social media.... Does the name "Daniel Christian" ring a bell to any of you? That is the person on that FB group in question that @mikecintel is referencing, that's alluding to the Brooklyn redesign being implemented in 2026...

 I am in the group.  So there is another stating "Brooklyn Bus Redesign would most happen in either late 2024 or in 2025, the latest (depending on how fast the TA moves with the QBNR)."  Now if it is in 2025 that is more likely.  I didn't know there was a transit group in FB either and so I did join them to get more info on the bus redesigns.  This NYC Transit forum which I joined a long time ago before Facebook and it is VERY HELPFUL in this group.

Edited July 25, 2023 by mikecintel

[EastFlatbushLarry]

9 hours ago, Ex696 said:

What's the problem with crossing Kings Highway? Traffic?

there's a severe bottleneck on Flatbush av. northbound from avenue p to the junction basically. to this day, those traffic signals aren't properly synced. ask any bus operator from Flatbush/Jackie Gleason/far rockaway depot(s) or anyone who drives/commutes that way after approx. 7am on a regular basis. so anyone looking to get from the kings plaza/mill basin/bergen beach area to the (or for that matter) would be wise to slide down avenue U via the B3

[Ex696]

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

The question for you is, what makes you think most people at Kings Plaza would end up taking the B9 more?

I thought more people would take the B9 because most riders on the Brighton Line are coming from the north and while the B41 is also at a more northern station, Prospect Park, traffic on Flatbush north of Flatbush Junction tends to slow to a crawl and heading south, the next option would be the B9 at Avenue M.

[Ex696]

2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

there's a severe bottleneck on Flatbush av. northbound from avenue p to the junction basically. to this day, those traffic signals aren't properly synced. ask any bus operator from Flatbush/Jackie Gleason/far rockaway depot(s) or anyone who drives/commutes that way after approx. 7am on a regular basis. so anyone looking to get from the kings plaza/mill basin/bergen beach area to the (or for that matter) would be wise to slide down avenue U via the B3

Does this bottleneck apply for the southbound direction as well?

 

[Nova Fly Guy]

15 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Exactly how many is "a good amount"?  

 If there really is substantial end-to-end (or at least very-long-haul) demand, then maybe the answer is to keep full-length Limiteds and split the local trips into overlapping routes.

 

Limited could really go from 86 to ENY with the Locals going from 25 Av to Rocakway PKWY. You have a pretty even present for most the routes expect south of 86 street, hence the heavy overlap between Bay Parkway & Rocakway Parkway 

 

[Lex]

1 hour ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

there's a severe bottleneck on Flatbush av. northbound from avenue p to the junction basically. to this day, those traffic signals aren't properly synced. ask any bus operator from Flatbush/Jackie Gleason/far rockaway depot(s) or anyone who drives/commutes that way after approx. 7am on a regular basis. so anyone looking to get from the kings plaza/mill basin/bergen beach area to the (or for that matter) would be wise to slide down avenue U via the B3

Don't forget the grid-related oddities and the design of Kings Highway east of Ocean Avenue. Those two things add onto the issues the B9 faces, especially since it's still better off doing what it does now in order to serve people that live in the relevant parts of Brooklyn.

Honestly, even if you were to sync the lights from Avenue P up to Avenue H, the intersection with Nostrand Avenue is still too dicey to properly transition to more typical light cycles, and that's factoring in the change to Hillel Place.

[Ex696]

9 minutes ago, Lex said:

Don't forget the grid-related oddities and the design of Kings Highway east of Ocean Avenue. Those two things add onto the issues the B9 faces, especially since it's still better off doing what it does now in order to serve people that live in the relevant parts of Brooklyn.

Honestly, even if you were to sync the lights from Avenue P up to Avenue H, the intersection with Nostrand Avenue is still too dicey to properly transition to more typical light cycles, and that's factoring in the change to Hillel Place.

I see....What's this change to Hillel Place you are talking about?

 

[Ex696]

11 minutes ago, Lex said:

Don't forget the grid-related oddities and the design of Kings Highway east of Ocean Avenue. Those two things add onto the issues the B9 faces, especially since it's still better off doing what it does now in order to serve people that live in the relevant parts of Brooklyn.

Honestly, even if you were to sync the lights from Avenue P up to Avenue H, the intersection with Nostrand Avenue is still too dicey to properly transition to more typical light cycles, and that's factoring in the change to Hillel Place.

Are you referring the pedestrianization?

 

 

[Q43LTD]

Who's ok with the B60 proposed to be split into 2, but routes like the B6, 43, 47 and 82 aren't 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Q43LTD

[EastFlatbushLarry]

8 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

Who's ok with the B60 proposed to be split into 2, but routes like the B6, 43, 47 and 82 aren't 

i personally think splitting the 60 as opposed to the B47, the 6 or even the 82 (to a lesser degree) is highly hypocritical and a slap in the face to anyone with intimate knowledge of these lines. the 60 should be WAY DOWN on the list of brooklyn lines that need to be broken up. this is yet another prime example of how out of touch transit is, and why people (workforce and customers alike) have no faith in this organization

[Ex696]

52 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i personally think splitting the 60 as opposed to the B47, the 6 or even the 82 (to a lesser degree) is highly hypocritical and a slap in the face to anyone with intimate knowledge of these lines. the 60 should be WAY DOWN on the list of brooklyn lines that need to be broken up. this is yet another prime example of how out of touch transit is, and why people (workforce and customers alike) have no faith in this organization

Didn't the B47 used to be two separate routes and got combined?

 

[Q43LTD]

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Didn't the B47 used to be two separate routes and got combined?

 

Yes. The B40 and 78

[Ex696]

Do most B47 riders south of Sutter Av-Rutland Rd  ride north of there, because I think that would probably be the best point to split it, if it ever got split again, that is...

[B35 via Church]

13 hours ago, mikecintel said:

I am in the group.  So there is another stating "Brooklyn Bus Redesign would most happen in either late 2024 or in 2025, the latest (depending on how fast the TA moves with the QBNR)."  Now if it is in 2025 that is more likely.  I didn't know there was a transit group in FB either and so I did join them to get more info on the bus redesigns.  This NYC Transit forum which I joined a long time ago before Facebook and it is VERY HELPFUL in this group.

I understand you're in the group.... Never said or implicated otherwise.

4 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Who's ok with the B60 proposed to be split into 2, but routes like the B6, 43, 47 and 82 aren't 

I'm more for splitting today's B60 than I am against it in general, but indifferent to this notion that the B60 got split & those other routes you listed weren't.... Although I never wanted today's B82 & B47 to become a thing (largely because there wasn't much of anything wrong with the old B50 & the old B78), I wouldn't split the B6, nor the B43 (the latter of which, I don't see why it should be split at all.... that was one of the route combinations back in '95 I agreed with; the old B47 & B62 didn't perform well at all)...

4 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

i personally think splitting the 60 as opposed to the B47, the 6 or even the 82 (to a lesser degree) is highly hypocritical and a slap in the face to anyone with intimate knowledge of these lines. the 60 should be WAY DOWN on the list of brooklyn lines that need to be broken up. this is yet another prime example of how out of touch transit is, and why people (workforce and customers alike) have no faith in this organization

I used to feel that way about keeping the B60 intact, but ridership habits have changed on the thing..... It appears as if, instead of (more) folks taking B60's from WBP on into Ocean Hill & points south in numbers like they used to back in the day ("distance riding", so to speak), more folks are taking the to Chauncey & are catching the B60 at Broadway (this isn't considering folks that have completely gave up on the route altogether & are taking 's and/or 's)... While it was always a big enough stop, I don't ever remember Broadway/Cooper being that consistently crowded with waiting pax....

1 hour ago, Ex696 said:

Do most B47 riders south of Sutter Av-Rutland Rd  ride north of there, because I think that would probably be the best point to split it, if it ever got split again, that is...

 At times, the B47 has a tendency to tank at Sutter-Rutland .... So, no.

Edited July 26, 2023 by B35 via Church

[mikecintel]

21 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I understand you're in the group.... Never said or implicated otherwise.

OK

[Ex696]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

At times, the B47 has a tendency to tank at Sutter-Rutland .... So, no.

Can you explain more about this, why you think the B47 should be split and where it should be split?

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, Ex696 said:

Can you explain more about this, why you think the B47 should be split and where it should be split?

It should remain as is because it provides an alternative to the B46. The only bad idea about the B40/78 combination was eliminating the east west portion of the B40 which should have been added to the B65. 

[Ex696]

20 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

It should remain as is because it provides an alternative to the B46. The only bad idea about the B40/78 combination was eliminating the east west portion of the B40 which should have been added to the B65. 

What makes you say the B65 over, for example, the B45? The B40 ran on Liberty Avenue to Liberty Avenue ...should whatever route that takes over that portion of the B40 also take over the B12's former route on Liberty Avenue to City Line as well?

[BrooklynBus]

51 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

What makes you say the B65 over, for example, the B45? The B40 ran on Liberty Avenue to Liberty Avenue ...should whatever route that takes over that portion of the B40 also take over the B12's former route on Liberty Avenue to City Line as well?

 

51 minutes ago, Ex696 said:

What makes you say the B65 over, for example, the B45? The B40 ran on Liberty Avenue to Liberty Avenue ...should whatever route that takes over that portion of the B40 also take over the B12's former route on Liberty Avenue to City Line as well?

Because the B45 has or had that loop that it would have to lose if it were extended.

[Ex696]

16 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Because the B45 has or had that loop that it would have to lose if it were extended.

Why would that loop need to be kept?

 

[Ex696]

Any opinions on the B4 changes? Is the detour it takes to Sheepshead Bay station detrimental to it's reliability and service?