What is the planned subway service changes for the budget cuts?

[Q101viaSteinway]

My subway service cut proposal

A division

 Late night and weekend service operates between 242 Street and New Lots Avenue. 

 the same

 weekdays only

 Operates only between Woodlawn and Bowling Green on weekends and late nights. 

 All service to Nostrand Junction discontinued. 

 late night service runs only between PBP and 125 Street. 

 the same

 discontinued 

B division

 Local service in Brooklyn and Queens on weekends and late nights when  is not running. No Rockaway Park service. 

 Discontinued 

 Weekdays only.  replaces  in Brooklyn on weekends and late nights.  replaces  along CPW on weekends and late nights. 

 Weekend and late night service runs only to 34th Street-Herald Square and operates local along CPW replacing  service. 

 Queens Boulevard local on late nights and weekends 

 Queens Boulevard local on late night and weekends

 the same

 Jamaica Center - Bay Ridge 95th Street at all times. 

 Weekends and late nights operates between Middle Village and Coney Island via Montague Tunnel and via West End. 

 Local in Manhattan and express in Brooklyn via Tunnel and stopping at DeKalb at all times. 

 the same 

 Discontinued

 Discontinued

[Theli11]

1 hour ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Late night and weekend service operates between 242 Street and New Lots Avenue. 

 the same

 weekdays only

 Operates only between Woodlawn and Bowling Green on weekends and late nights. 

 All service to Nostrand Junction discontinued. 

 late night service runs only between PBP and 125 Street. 

I don't think you should have the ENTIRE 7th-Broadway line on it and you should at least put one Lexington Av line on it, probably the  and leave the at South Ferry. can just be pushed back to 14th St at all times, and extend to New Lots.

 

1 hour ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Local service in Brooklyn and Queens on weekends and late nights when  is not running. No Rockaway Park service. 

 Discontinued 

 Weekdays only.  replaces  in Brooklyn on weekends and late nights.  replaces  along CPW on weekends and late nights. 

 Weekend and late night service runs only to 34th Street-Herald Square and operates local along CPW replacing  service. 

1 hour ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Weekends and late nights operates between Middle Village and Coney Island via Montague Tunnel and via West End. 

Leave the  alone, it's pretty necessary. Replacing it with the would just make the longer and the shorter. Just keep both of them as the same and put the  in Chambers or Essex. 

1 hour ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Local in Manhattan and express in Brooklyn via Tunnel and stopping at DeKalb at all times. 

 the same 

 Discontinued

 Discontinued

should not be discontinued entirely, you can leave it as the late night service. (especially since there's no connection between Bay Ridge and Downtown Brooklyn.

should be local in Brooklyn as a supplement/replacement to the

1 hour ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Queens Boulevard local on late nights and weekends 

 Queens Boulevard local on late night and weekends

Make the express, QBL is a really long line from Jamaica to Queensbridge. the can sustain it because it only runs from WTC to Jamaica. Not a long route at all. 

 

2 hours ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

 Jamaica Center - Bay Ridge 95th Street at all times. 

way too long of a route, and trains (via Nassau) would not be able to take passengers where they want to go. They won't even go above 14 St, and they'll just carry air from 36 St./59 St Brooklyn to Atlantic Av.

[Wallyhorse]

On 9/23/2020 at 3:11 AM, Mtatransit said:

Bare in mind. These cuts are NO WHERE near 40%. Cuts will therefore have to go much deeper than this

The idea here is the old  returns and is combined with the old "Brown "/"bankers special"  to provide Bay Ridge with service as well as the Metropolitan-Myrtle portion.

The  stays to Church mainly because it's an easier place to turn than Smith-9th, which misses a key transfer spot at 4th Avenue.

The is Far Rockaway only in this.  The and  basically are shuttles EXCEPT during rush-hours and only to 34th Street (and the to/from 34th is basically the current peak-hour trains to Rockaway Park under a different letter).

The  becoming essentially a "revived " train is strictly a rush-hour service to supplement the during peak hours.

I keep because it does serve Lenox.  It doesn't have to be frequent, just enough to get people to the  and  

would be as it is now OTHER than stopping northbound at 79th and 86th because the  would be using the northbound express track to terminate (and those looking specifically for the  southbound can transfer anywhere between 135th and 110th).

Again, this is about keeping ALL stations open while cutting service. 

 

[Wallyhorse]

On 9/21/2020 at 7:58 PM, 4 via Mosholu said:

This would be how I would do a draconian cut, making it so all stations are still served by at least one line:

No changes Agreed.

 No changes EXCEPT stops northbound at 79th and 86th Street Keep the 2 as is to the Bush with it's 1999 night local service pattern.

Shuttle between 96th Street and 148th Street-Lenox Terminal (terminates on northbound express track) Have the 3 continue to run to 42 to relay at night; otherwise daytime and evening service runs to the Bush.

runs local in Brooklyn at all times and is extended to New Lots (otherwise no changes to current schedule) It would likely be for the best; also cut out the Burnside and Bedford Park drop outs and Bedford Park put ins.

runs as follows:
Weekdays, 6:00 AM-9:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Atlantic Avenue (express on full route) Utica would be a better turnaround running express via Eastern Parkway while stopping at Franklin Botanic.
Weekends, 8:00 AM-8:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge, local all the way Bowling Green would be better; they just need to figure out how to make the inner South Ferry loop a revenue track, like they did for City Hall.
All other times: Shuttle from Dyre Avenue-East 180th Street I imagine this would be for the evening and night.
Nereid Avenue service eliminated. That would be suspended instead.

 runs as it does now except for rush hour express service in the Bronx eliminated. Only the midday express would face a temporary cut, but keep the East 177 runs anyway.

runs as it does now except for NO  as that is eliminated. The 7 can easily handle the local with eight minute headways daytime and evening and fifteen overnight.

Times Square-Grand Central is eliminated (use  in Manhattan) Keep the 42 Street Shuttle for the foreseeable future.

runs 24/7 as a local between 207th Street and Far Rockaway Mott Avenue runs express daytime and evenings with nights being local; Lefferts Boulevard runs kept local daytime and evenings.

 becomes a 6th Avenue local running rush hours ONLY between 2nd Avenue and 71st-Continental. Have the B run from 168 to 2nd as an express while switching at West Fourth Street weekdays and weekend days.

becomes a shuttle between Lefferts Boulevard and Euclid Avenue except rush hours when it runs as an express between Lefferts Boulevard and 34th Street-8th Avenue I would extend the C to Lefferts from Bedford Park Boulevard during rush hours to keep the D express between Fordham and 145, middays and evenings would begin from 145, nights and weekends would be the Lefferts Shuttle to Euclid, terminating on the express track at Euclid.

 no changes That would only be possible if the C made all stops in the Bronx rush hours to keep the D express.

becomes local on Queens Boulevard at all times Better to keep the E on the express to Parsons Archer; nights continue to be local and evenings and weekends are local east of Continental. Weekdays are express east of Continental from 6AM to 6PM.

 no changes The one thing that can be done is to cut the rush peak F express from Jay Street Borough Hall to Kensington Church Avenue.

 no changes Look into re extending the G to Continental to cover the R, or else keep it as is terminating at Long Island City and NOT cut the R.

officially become such and operates as it does now as between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel with peak direction rush hour <H> service between Rockaway Park and 34th Street-8th Avenue. Externally call it the H running from Broad Channel to Beach 116 Street.

is truncated to Chambers Street at all times Have it be the 95 Street - Fort Hamilton service.

 returns to brown and runs Metropolitan Avenue to 95th Street-Bay Ridge at all times. Let the M be the Met to Chambers Nassau service with nightly runs to Myrtle.

becomes a 4th Avenue and Broadway Local at all times, running via the tunnel between Atlantic-Barclays and Canal Street and on its current route otherwise Run this as an express to 96 Street to keep the express deinterlined. Keep the local via Whitehall overnight.

no changes That's okay.

  and are eliminated

Have the R run from Continental to Whitehall Street with the Fort Hamilton to Court Street section covered by the J and the W can be on a reduced weekday schedule.

The Z needs to be a supplement backbone Nassau service running to Broad Street from Broadway Eastern Parkway while running peak direction express service west of there.

The idea is these are draconian cuts.  That's why I have the  and  as I wrote them.

Reason I have the  to Chambers and  combined with the old "Bankers Special"/"Brown " is that shortens the route and makes it more efficient.

I can easily make to 71-Continental or even to 179 during peak hours.  being local all the way from Queens Plaza does eliminate that need.

The idea is the rush hour  and  would only go to 34th and cover Fulton Street as expresses, supplementing the during those times.  Otherwise, is the sole route as it is in the overnight. 

There would be no or .  That's why the would become a full local on 4th Avenue and Broadway and run via the tunnel with the  in Brooklyn.

[mrsman]

I really envision that service cuts would have to include some form of station closure.  While there may be a cost to install lockable gates, and there may still need to be some level of policing to ensure that people don't sleep in the stations - there could be significant savings in closing the station.  Cleaning and maintenance do not need to be performed as often.  Station agent do not need to service the station, so there is a labor savings.  One less station would also help with the end to end runtime of trains, which also saves costs.

Having said that, neighborhoods still need to be served, so in most cases the end station still needs service of some type.  Stations that close should have an alternate open station within walking distance.  And ADA needs to be taken into account.

[Maxwell179]

6 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

The idea here is the old  returns and is combined with the old "Brown "/"bankers special"  to provide Bay Ridge with service as well as the Metropolitan-Myrtle portion.

The  stays to Church mainly because it's an easier place to turn than Smith-9th, which misses a key transfer spot at 4th Avenue.

The is Far Rockaway only in this.  The and  basically are shuttles EXCEPT during rush-hours and only to 34th Street (and the to/from 34th is basically the current peak-hour trains to Rockaway Park under a different letter).

The  becoming essentially a "revived " train is strictly a rush-hour service to supplement the during peak hours.

I keep because it does serve Lenox.  It doesn't have to be frequent, just enough to get people to the  and  

would be as it is now OTHER than stopping northbound at 79th and 86th because the  would be using the northbound express track to terminate (and those looking specifically for the  southbound can transfer anywhere between 135th and 110th).

Again, this is about keeping ALL stations open while cutting service. 

 

So if you know that’s it’s just the  to Rockaway Park under a different letter , wouldn’t it make sense to just keep it as the  to Rockaway Park.. what sense does it make to add another service if they’re cutting service 

[Deucey]

16 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

Reason I have the  to Chambers and  combined with the old "Bankers Special"/"Brown " is that shortens the route and makes it more efficient.

Problem with that is  carried air downtown and in Brooklyn, while  carries people to Midtown.

 saw no use for the Bankers Specials - which is why the Manny B tracks all connect to northbound tracks now. So bringing a "spiritual successor" that already existed and was cut because it was a waste of money isn't going to save any money since it'll still be a waste of money.

[Wallyhorse]

1 hour ago, Deucey said:

Problem with that is  carried air downtown and in Brooklyn, while  carries people to Midtown.

 saw no use for the Bankers Specials - which is why the Manny B tracks all connect to northbound tracks now. So bringing a "spiritual successor" that already existed and was cut because it was a waste of money isn't going to save any money since it'll still be a waste of money.

I agree but this is a draconian situation.

This is about the best way to keep all stations with at least one line running to it at all times.  This incarnation of the old  and the "Bankers Special"  being combined is having this version of the  REPLACE the  in Brooklyn and lower Manhattanwhich is one of the routes that would be eliminated entirely AT ALL TIMES, with the taking over the local route of the in Queens (with help from a rush-hour only train that now would be a local running what had been the prior to the 2010 changes).  EITHER the or this  would be the train running to Brooklyn at all times.

Other option would be the would go to 95th Street at all times while the current is retained but possibly becoming a 24/7 route to 71st-Continental and extended late nights to Jamaica Center to replace the  during the late night hours (the would be eliminated entirely in the late-night hours with the becoming the sole train that runs via 53rd in the overnight hours (the would still serve 7th Avenue-53rd) and the terminal platform at Chambers-WTC closed during those hours).

[Wallyhorse]

11 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

So if you know that’s it’s just the  to Rockaway Park under a different letter , wouldn’t it make sense to just keep it as the  to Rockaway Park.. what sense does it make to add another service if they’re cutting service 

The rush-hour in my version is in fact what currently are the Rockaway Park trains.  The one significant change is this becomes a full-time route between Euclid and Rockaway Park.

[Lawrence St]

Here's my idea;

Quote

 - No change in route, weekday frequency every 8 minutes, weekend every 12 minutes.

 - No change in route, weekend frequency runs every 12 minutes via 7th Av Local.

 - Eliminated

 - To New Lots Av via Brooklyn Local, all times. Weekend frequency runs every 7 minutes.

 - becomes Dyre Av  all times, runs every 20 minutes.

 - late night service runs between Pelham Bay Park & 125th St.  discontinued.

 - no change. Frequency reduction to every 8 minutes.  discontinued. 

 - Weekday rush hour service to Rockaway Park discontinued, Lefferts Branch service replaced by the .

 - discontinued

 - Extended to Lefferts Blvd all times and truncated to 145th St during middays. Weekdays runs every 12 minutes, weekends every 15 minutes. Late nights runs as shuttle between Euclid Av & Lefferts Blvd.

 - no change, Bronx express service eliminated.

 - discontinued

-  service discontinued. runs local on QBL overnight.

 - service south of Smith 9th Sts discontinued, extended to 179th St via QBL Local during rush hours and weekdays.

- service extended to 95th St. During rush hours, some trips operate between Essex St and 95th St.

- via 8th Av, extended to Jamaica Center via QBL Local. (or keep on 6th Av via 53rd St)

 - via Broadway Local/Lower Manhattan.

 - no change.

- discontinued. 

 - discontinued.

 - discontinued.

42nd St  - discontinued.

Rockaway Park  - frequency change to every hour.

Franklin  - frequency change to every half hour.

 

The service reduction may look bad, but most of these have cost saving practices that also keep somewhat of the same service frequency and connections.

[Maxwell179]

26 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

- via 8th Av, extended to Jamaica Center via QBL Local. (or keep on 6th Av via 53rd St)

 

wouldn’t the  need to be 10 cars to handle the passenger load on QBL ?

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Maxwell179 said:

wouldn’t the  need to be 10 cars to handle the passenger load on QBL ?

Not really, the  will balance the loads out evenly where people can take the  if they want express service into Manhhattan.

[Maxwell179]

12 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Not really, the  will balance the loads out evenly where people can take the  if they want express service into Manhhattan.

Would the  be full length in this scenario ?

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Maxwell179 said:

Would the  be full length in this scenario ?

Yes the would use sets from the discontinued  and  services to become 10 cars. 

The cars from the 42nd St  as well as additional spare R62A's from the  would go to the Dyre Avenue shuttle .

[Wallyhorse]

Decided to do a revised version with some changes

 No changes

 No changes EXCEPT stops northbound at 79th and 86th Street

 Shuttle between 96th Street and 148th Street-Lenox Terminal (terminates on northbound express track)

 runs local in Brooklyn at all times and is extended to New Lots (otherwise no changes to current schedule)

runs as follows: 
Weekdays, 6:00 AM-9:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Atlantic Avenue (express on full route)
Weekends, 8:00 AM-8:00 PM: Runs Dyre Avenue-Brooklyn Bridge, local all the way
All other times: Shuttle from Dyre Avenue-East 180th Street
Neidred Avenue service eliminated.

runs as it does now except for rush hour  express service in the Bronx eliminated. 

  runs as it does now except for NO  as that is eliminated.

Times Square-Grand Central is eliminated (use in Manhattan)  

(ALL of the IRT services are unchanged from the original version)

runs 24/7 as a local between 207th Street and Far Rockaway (no change)

becomes a shuttle between Lefferts Boulevard and Euclid Avenue except for a rush hour  when it runs as an express between Lefferts Boulevard and 34th Street-8th Avenue.

no changes 

 becomes local on Queens Boulevard at all times except nights, when it does not run at all and the terminal platform at Chambers-WTC is closed (changed from the original proposal). 

 no changes

 is extended to 71st-Continental at all times (changed from the original proposal).

 officially become such and operates as it does now as between Rockaway Park and Broad Channel with peak direction rush hour <H> service between Rockaway Park and 34th Street-8th Avenue. 

 is extended at ALL TIMES to 95th Street-Bay Ridge.  Runs to and from the yard end and begin at Broadway Junction (changed from the original proposal).

becomes 24/7 between Metropolitan Avenue and 71-Continental and late nights is extended to Jamaica Center to replace the  during those hours (changed from the original proposal).   

becomes a 4th Avenue and Broadway Local at all times, running via the tunnel between Atlantic-Barclays and Canal Street and on its current route otherwise 

 no changes

 and  are all eliminated (change from the original proposal)

Edited September 26, 2020 by Wallyhorse

[Kamen Rider]

So this went from a legitimate question to “Fantasy thread 4602”...

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

So this went from a legitimate question to “Fantasy thread 4602”...

Not really, they said 40% reduction in service, my idea was to show what that 40% could look like.

[Lex]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Not really, they said 40% reduction in service, my idea was to show what that 40% could look like.

OP was looking for concrete answers (too early for that), not what individuals would do if they had control of the system (we already have a thread for that).

[Cabanamaner]

4 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

So this went from a legitimate question to “Fantasy thread 4602”...

Agreed. Some of these “proposals” are tinkering more on being fantasy reroutes over practical solutions. If the worst of these cuts come to fruition, we’ll probably see reductions in service systemwide with peak-express and rush hour variants eliminated. I don’t think any line will flat out be discontinued or rerouted except for the B, W, or Z.

[Trainmaster5]

8 hours ago, Cabanamaner said:

Agreed. Some of these “proposals” are tinkering more on being fantasy reroutes over practical solutions. If the worst of these cuts come to fruition, we’ll probably see reductions in service systemwide with peak-express and rush hour variants eliminated. I don’t think any line will flat out be discontinued or rerouted except for the B, W, or Z.

You have the right idea, IMO. Most of the posts in this thread are not based on reality but straight up fantasy. The sad thing is that some of these same posters are advocating new services and new construction in the other threads. I think that’s the reason many old time posters have been inactive for the past few years. Just my opinion. Carry on.

[Kamen Rider]

Because some people coughWallycough will take any excuse to discuss their pet ideas on how to make the subway better... even when that involves ether building or demolishing lines and station for no reason other than “because”, regardless of what it does to the system’s operational Fung Shui...

[R10 2952]

2 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

I think that’s the reason many old time posters have been inactive for the past few years. Just my opinion. Carry on.

I think you're absolutely right about that- it's a shame, but not a surprise.  I myself have gotten so sick and tired of all the fantasy nonsense being posted ad nauseum.

[Wallyhorse]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:23 AM, Kamen Rider said:

So this went from a legitimate question to “Fantasy thread 4602”...

The idea was (as I did it anyway) was to do cuts while maintaining AT LEAST one line stopping at ALL stations in the system (the lone exception of any kind being the WTC platform at Chambers in late nights since the would not run during that time ( would become 24/7 and replace the on QB then). 

[Kamen Rider]

... I will say it again... the OP doesn’t care what your ideas are. They wanted to know what the ACTUAL plans were.

[Wallyhorse]

And I was trying to actually provide such an answer, knowing politics et al where all stations (in this case save late nights for the platform at Chambers) are still served by at least one line at all times.  

What I did was probably as realistic as possible given the task in having to make those kind of cuts.