Shortage of drivers forces MTA to trim NYC bus service

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

It's been public knowledge for almost two months...

https://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/in-the-news/michael-gianaris/new-york-daily-news-cuomo-pushes-145m-raid-funds-dedicated

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/02/19/mta-leadership-declines-to-fight-gov-cuomos-145m-transit-raid/

 

 

Old news. He hasn't taken anything and won't...

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-raids-state-budget-20210315-jc4pbqn475b73bh5ipobp5mzqi-story.html?outputType=amp#click=https://t.co/YRWt48vKF6

[Via Garibaldi 8]

36 minutes ago, dman1455 said:

Last I heard he backed off this.

That's correct.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Old news. He hasn't taken anything and won't...

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/ny-mta-raids-state-budget-20210315-jc4pbqn475b73bh5ipobp5mzqi-story.html?outputType=amp#click=https://t.co/YRWt48vKF6

 

He still plans to. Pataki set the precedent and Cuomo still wants to take full advantage of it.

(In fact, Pataki once announced that Federal aid constituted a gift from him because "I could have taken that money, but I didn't.")

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

He still plans to. Pataki set the precedent and Cuomo still wants to take full advantage of it.

(In fact, Pataki once announced that Federal aid constituted a gift from him because "I could have taken that money, but I didn't.")

He's got plenty of eyes on him now. Pataki was in office years ago, when social media wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

[bobtehpanda]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:25 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

He's got plenty of eyes on him now. Pataki was in office years ago, when social media wasn't as prevalent as it is today.

At the same time, NYS has very little in terms of constitutional protection against a governor going rogue.

Like, no one can make him resign or recall him, and even if a lot of actions can be overturned by legislature or the courts that leaves quite a bit of room and time to do a lot of damage.

[JAzumah]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:09 PM, dman1455 said:

Last I heard he backed off this.

He was blocked by the Legislature...

[JAzumah]

On 4/14/2021 at 11:52 PM, MHV9218 said:

Why is so hard for people to conceive that the MTA NEEDED the money it received? Farebox revenue was zilch. Nada. Not only did ridership collapse, bus ridership was FREE. So yes, two things can be true at once: they received a ton of money, and they still have to be cautious about expenses, because that's how singularly terrible this pandemic was. By the way, somebody page me when we're at even close to 70-80% of 2019's farebox numbers and then we can talk about how to spend...

Publish a schedule that you can run.

If you cannot run the schedule currently published, REDUCE IT until you can run that schedule.

In addition, they need to learn the name of a particular agency: FEMA. If they can run vax buses (which largely run empty), they can run bridge buses for bicycles under the same emergency budget so cyclists can get across the bigger bridges.

I am having to rewrite schedules even after publishing them to deal with shifts in demand and customer perception. That also means changing them in the booking engine. It can be annoying, but the heavy auto traffic indicates that demand is returning. The region's mass transit has to adjust or people aren't going to come back. They are going to change their schedules to drive in less traffic.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

7 hours ago, JAzumah said:

Publish a schedule that you can run.

If you cannot run the schedule currently published, REDUCE IT until you can run that schedule.

In addition, they need to learn the name of a particular agency: FEMA. If they can run vax buses (which largely run empty), they can run bridge buses for bicycles under the same emergency budget so cyclists can get across the bigger bridges.

I am having to rewrite schedules even after publishing them to deal with shifts in demand and customer perception. That also means changing them in the booking engine. It can be annoying, but the heavy auto traffic indicates that demand is returning. The region's mass transit has to adjust or people aren't going to come back. They are going to change their schedules to drive in less traffic.

Uh no... You HIRE more drivers to meet your schedules. No one wants to wait around for over an hour for a bus. That's why people are DRIVING in the first place. You and the  don't get it. People don't have to take public transportation. Many do it because driving is not feasible for everyone. We need to run a reasonable amount of service to get people out of their cars. If they can't run ONE bus an hour in each direction, then there's a serious problem. They can't make rush hour service. They can't make off-peak service. It's a joke. Funny how NJ Transit isn't seeing all of these missing trips. Riders are coming back and they're providing RELIABLE BUS SERVICE.

The  is poorly run and mismanaged, period.

Edited April 19, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JAzumah]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Uh no... You HIRE more drivers to meet your schedules. No one wants to wait around for over an hour for a bus. That's why people are DRIVING in the first place. You and the  don't get it. People don't have to take public transportation. Many do it because driving is not feasible for everyone. We need to run a reasonable amount of service to get people out of their cars. If they can't run ONE bus an hour in each direction, then there's a serious problem. They can't make rush hour service. They can't make off-peak service. It's a joke. Funny how NJ Transit isn't seeing all of these missing trips. Riders are coming back and they're providing RELIABLE BUS SERVICE.

The  is poorly run and mismanaged, period.

The MTA can go right over to the driver store and pluck a few off of the shelf, right?

People are driving because they don't want to be near other people. You can survive on hourly bus service if it is reliable. A lot of NJT turf consists of hourly bus service. If the MTA is dropping overnight runs, that is a big problem. The overnight people are the first to do something different if they can. 

As driving becomes more painful, people will return to mass transit, but the schedule cannot be aspirational. I am sure that the MTA has some ramping up to do with regards to doing training and other things in this environment. It can easily take 8-12 weeks to get going with new drivers. It is not an overnight thing.

[Q101viaSteinway]

4 hours ago, JAzumah said:

The MTA can go right over to the driver store and pluck a few off of the shelf, right?

People are driving because they don't want to be near other people. You can survive on hourly bus service if it is reliable. A lot of NJT turf consists of hourly bus service. If the MTA is dropping overnight runs, that is a big problem. The overnight people are the first to do something different if they can. 

As driving becomes more painful, people will return to mass transit, but the schedule cannot be aspirational. I am sure that the MTA has some ramping up to do with regards to doing training and other things in this environment. It can easily take 8-12 weeks to get going with new drivers. It is not an overnight thing.

MTA has very long lists of people who want to be drivers. There are people desperate for jobs right now. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 hours ago, JAzumah said:

The MTA can go right over to the driver store and pluck a few off of the shelf, right?

People are driving because they don't want to be near other people. You can survive on hourly bus service if it is reliable. A lot of NJT turf consists of hourly bus service. If the MTA is dropping overnight runs, that is a big problem. The overnight people are the first to do something different if they can. 

As driving becomes more painful, people will return to mass transit, but the schedule cannot be aspirational. I am sure that the MTA has some ramping up to do with regards to doing training and other things in this environment. It can easily take 8-12 weeks to get going with new drivers. It is not an overnight thing.

Spare me with that. They've had a hiring freeze in place for quite some time now, even before the pandemic when the economy was booming. They have lists with people they can train, but refuse to hire. The practice even before COVID was if no one wants to cover the trip, the trip gets left unfilled. Having spoke with union reps. and a number of bus operators about this in numerous conversations, they have been asking when are we getting more drivers since before the pandemic. 

People are also driving because service is unreliable. I know because we are the riders and I've been doing it myself. I would much rather take public transit into Manhattan than have to go by car. You speak as someone who operates service. You don't use the system though. Big difference. A number of riders in my group have been driving for months now. They cite, poor unreliable service as one of the main reasons.

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Spare me with that. They've had a hiring freeze in place for quite some time now, even before the pandemic when the economy was booming. They have lists with people they can train, but refuse to hire. The practice even before COVID was if no one wants to cover the trip, the trip gets left unfilled. Having spoke with union reps. and a number of bus operators about this in numerous conversations, they have been asking when are we getting more drivers since before the pandemic. 

People are also driving because service is unreliable. I know because we are the riders and I've been doing it myself. I would much rather take public transit into Manhattan than have to go by car. You speak as someone who operates service. You don't use the system though. Big difference. A number of riders in my group have been driving for months now. They cite, poor unreliable service as one of the main reasons.

Njt is short on driver's in certain garages...But like you pointed out they still finding ways to keep service on most lines reliable...Example is my daughter mother been a bus operator for njt for 12 years out of fairview Garage......The last few months she been doing overtime out of greenville garage on the 87...

Edited April 20, 2021 by biGC323232

[JAzumah]

3 hours ago, Q101viaSteinway said:

MTA has very long lists of people who want to be drivers. There are people desperate for jobs right now. 

Are the trainers available? Is social distancing possible in the training facilities? Have the trainers been asked to do other things (like cover open runs)?

What is the size of the new MTA bus network going to be? Are we going to spend X to train a whole bunch of drivers that we may not need in the future? (That discussion is likely non-public for obvious reasons).

[JAzumah]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

People are also driving because service is unreliable. I know because we are the riders and I've been doing it myself. I would much rather take public transit into Manhattan than have to go by car. You speak as someone who operates service. You don't use the system though. Big difference. A number of riders in my group have been driving for months now. They cite, poor unreliable service as one of the main reasons.

*Cue the Rogaine commercial*

In addition to operating service, I also use the MTA's products. When was the last time you were on a subway or local bus? Never mind, just plead the fifth.

Unreliability is a function of covering up the fact that you can't meet the current schedule. The easiest way to fix that is to CHANGE THE SCHEDULE while you hire new drivers. It is not to pretend that there isn't a problem. Frequency is less of an issue than uncertainty. I would agree that it is just easier for the MTA to operate the schedule that they publish. It is obvious that they can't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, biGC323232 said:

Njt is short on driver's in certain garages...But like you pointed out they still finding ways to keep service on most lines reliable...Example is my daughter mother been a bus operator for njt for 12 years out of fairview Garage......The last few months she been doing overtime out of greenville garage on the 87...

There may be, but I haven't had any issues getting any NJ Transit bus I've waited for, and I'm talking about lines that generally run once an hour. Bus service when I have used it there from the Port Authority or from Jersey has been just fine, though a little too crowded for my tastes, so I go by car now when I do go there now.

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

Are the trainers available? Is social distancing possible in the training facilities? Have the trainers been asked to do other things (like cover open runs)?

What is the size of the new MTA bus network going to be? Are we going to spend X to train a whole bunch of drivers that we may not need in the future? (That discussion is likely non-public for obvious reasons).

What was there excuse before the pandemic? You do nothing but call for service cuts. No wonder none of the lines you operate work out. No sort of customer service...

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

*Cue the Rogaine commercial*

In addition to operating service, I also use the MTA's products. When was the last time you were on a subway or local bus? Never mind, just plead the fifth.

Unreliability is a function of covering up the fact that you can't meet the current schedule. The easiest way to fix that is to CHANGE THE SCHEDULE while you hire new drivers. It is not to pretend that there isn't a problem. Frequency is less of an issue than uncertainty. I would agree that it is just easier for the MTA to operate the schedule that they publish. It is obvious that they can't.

Yeah right. Somehow, I never hear any complaints from you about long waits for any bus or train. I don't buy it. I have rode the subway and the local bus since the pandemic, and would not ride either with any regularity because too many people don't wear masks and there's no enforcement, so yeah it's been several months for me without riding either, and it'll stay that way. I commute these days primarily by car and that won't change either. I take the express bus usually at off hours to avoid crowding where possible, but that's only a few times a week tops.

It's obvious they can't because they are terrible at managing and LAZY, period. That's all it comes down to. The less service they have to provide, the better, especially bus service, both local and express. They don't have to pay drivers, they deter ridership, which then allows them to run less service and save more on operating costs. Perfect scenario for them.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JAzumah]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Somehow, I never hear any complaints from you about long waits for any bus or train. I don't buy it

I have an expectation of how things run before I travel. If I am short on time, I will use an Uber if the price makes sense. Otherwise, I leave early and dress appropriately for the weather. The only bus that has long wait times near here is the B65 and I am mentally prepared for that. Subways never have long wait times. Where else will you get a train at least every 15-20 minutes 22 hours per day?

[JAzumah]

5 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What was there excuse before the pandemic? You do nothing but call for service cuts. No wonder none of the lines you operate work out. No sort of customer service...

Buses have to carry people. The MTA exists to move people. I know that is a radical concept, but that is why it exists. That means that service may have to be shifted around every so often if the demand grows or drops on a route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, JAzumah said:

I have an expectation of how things run before I travel. If I am short on time, I will use an Uber if the price makes sense. Otherwise, I leave early and dress appropriately for the weather. The only bus that has long wait times near here is the B65 and I am mentally prepared for that. Subways never have long wait times. Where else will you get a train at least every 15-20 minutes 22 hours per day?

Oh so you have no concept of what it's like then to wait for a bus that only runs once an hour. That explains it. I just think you're rather out of touch in not understanding that everyone is not in your situation, including in parts of Brooklyn. The parts of Brooklyn I grew up in always had poor bus service, and I'm not talking about the express buses either. You could easily wait 45 minutes for a local bus and that was 15+ years ago. Very little has changed. 

59 minutes ago, JAzumah said:

Buses have to carry people. The MTA exists to move people. I know that is a radical concept, but that is why it exists. That means that service may have to be shifted around every so often if the demand grows or drops on a route.

Buses can't carry anyone if they don't run. There are lines that have 80% of the scheduled service unfilled, and this is not "every so often". It's a regular occurrence. You really have no idea what service is like outside of the areas you frequent. That's really the problem and it shows.

I don't care where people live. Every neighborhood in NYC has some form of transportation, and the service should be provided consistently. That's it. Plain and simple. Unfortunately, bus service Citywide has been horrendous for the last 10+ years, and has really become progressively worse since 2015.

[Q43 Floral Park]

On 4/20/2021 at 8:52 PM, JAzumah said:

Buses have to carry people. The MTA exists to move people. I know that is a radical concept, but that is why it exists. That means that service may have to be shifted around every so often if the demand grows or drops on a route.

The first sunday this month, I thought all of the tracking apps (MTA and 3rd party) were glitching because Ia route that should have been every 20 minutes until 1A was saying check back later at 8:50P. Waited 15 minute before leaving, then 10 minutes at the stop and just opted to walk along the route instead of taking one of the 2 seat alternates. It was nice out and I wanted to see if there were crowds (there were) or if something would come because broken tracker/new bus (nope). About 30 minutes later, a lone bus, passed me packed to the brim in the opposite direction.

I finally reached out only to be told it wasn't a GPS glitch but that they ran out of operators 3 hours early. The bus I had just seen was on its last run because it vanished as soon as it hit the terminal. To me, it seems like its based less off of demand (this route was in the top 50 for weekend ridership pre-COVID, and there was an article out last summer saying it was the most crowded 40 ft route) and more so taking advantage of chronic issues (route unreliability is nothing new and they made zero announcements about it).

 

[JAzumah]

As we speak, I am at the UMA Motorcoach Expo. Hiring back drivers is a major issue across the country. A lot of folks went to drive trucks and the trucking industry needs them badly. Why should people go back to driving buses if they are doing ok in trucking? There is still a high demand for skilled commercial vehicle drivers and companies are finally beginning to pay drivers properly.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

12 hours ago, JAzumah said:

As we speak, I am at the UMA Motorcoach Expo. Hiring back drivers is a major issue across the country. A lot of folks went to drive trucks and the trucking industry needs them badly. Why should people go back to driving buses if they are doing ok in trucking? There is still a high demand for skilled commercial vehicle drivers and companies are finally beginning to pay drivers properly.

Yeah, but in the  's case, they haven't been hiring, so it's a moot point. 

[SoSpectacular]

A lot of drivers with the time and age are taking their pensions and running. You'd be surprised at how many guys there still are that have been with Transit for over 25 years.

Aside from some of the busier routes, ridership hasn't gotten back to previous levels at all since the cases have dwindled (or last summer when rides were free). But even with the busy routes aside, ridership drops off dramatically towards the end of rush hour (after 6PM I've noticed this large decrease). Buses really start carrying air then and some buses will start running early or have to drag out a trip by going even slower/waiting their time out at bus stops.

Really not much point in hiring more operators now until the numbers get better. There is a class currently in training still at my depot, they'll be thrown on the list once they're finished with the line training so that should help things. I'm currently on the B63 for the spring pick and it's actually not too bad traffic/ridership wise. Things do get extremely light towards the end of my runs, though.

 

[Lawrence St]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:26 PM, JAzumah said:

Are the trainers available? Is social distancing possible in the training facilities? Have the trainers been asked to do other things (like cover open runs)?

What is the size of the new MTA bus network going to be? Are we going to spend X to train a whole bunch of drivers that we may not need in the future? (That discussion is likely non-public for obvious reasons).

It's not just that, keeps delaying current lists and waiting around for people to respond when they should just move on to the next list. Not to mention going through HR at  is also a nightmare, and even when THEY mess up, you get the consequence and have to wait for the next exam and list. It's unbelievable! 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

A lot of drivers with the time and age are taking their pensions and running. You'd be surprised at how many guys there still are that have been with Transit for over 25 years.

Aside from some of the busier routes, ridership hasn't gotten back to previous levels at all since the cases have dwindled (or last summer when rides were free). But even with the busy routes aside, ridership drops off dramatically towards the end of rush hour (after 6PM I've noticed this large decrease). Buses really start carrying air then and some buses will start running early or have to drag out a trip by going even slower/waiting their time out at bus stops.

Really not much point in hiring more operators now until the numbers get better. There is a class currently in training still at my depot, they'll be thrown on the list once they're finished with the line training so that should help things. I'm currently on the B63 for the spring pick and it's actually not too bad traffic/ridership wise. Things do get extremely light towards the end of my runs, though.

 

Uh tell that to the people that are dependent upon the service. They got BILLIONS to keep the service running, not to not hire drivers. They are hiring more subway operators and train ridership is still down roughly 70%. Bus ridership is almost back at 50%. You have the Mayor telling people to come back to their offices, and we have the  that can't run the damn service that people NEED. The City CANNOT re-open without reliable transportation. No ifs ands or buts. Doesn't matter how many people are using it now. It's public transportation and they should be running the service, just as they promised. I've had seniors that have had to cancel doctors' appointments because they don't have enough drivers to meet service, not to mention the people that are trying to get to work. There are people that are still working during this period and need the service, and little by little, people are trickling back, even if it's just a few days a week.

Ridership is not going to bounce back overnight, but you start cutting service by not hiring drivers, and you run the risk of having people not come back to use the system at all, with it taking longer for ridership to rebound. Drivers are going to retire either way.  In this economic environment, there are plenty of people that are looking for work.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

On 4/19/2021 at 7:29 AM, JAzumah said:

Publish a schedule that you can run.

If you cannot run the schedule currently published, REDUCE IT until you can run that schedule.

In addition, they need to learn the name of a particular agency: FEMA. If they can run vax buses (which largely run empty), they can run bridge buses for bicycles under the same emergency budget so cyclists can get across the bigger bridges.

I am having to rewrite schedules even after publishing them to deal with shifts in demand and customer perception. That also means changing them in the booking engine. It can be annoying, but the heavy auto traffic indicates that demand is returning. The region's mass transit has to adjust or people aren't going to come back. They are going to change their schedules to drive in less traffic.

There wouldn't be a need for resorting to temporary service cuts (or reduced scheduling, as you put it) - which can VERY easily resort to permanent ones with this agency, if they hired more op's to make service....

They don't want to make service.... That's all this shit is.

On 4/20/2021 at 5:58 AM, JAzumah said:

The MTA can go right over to the driver store and pluck a few off of the shelf, right?

Absolutely they could.... They blatantly refuse to.

On 4/20/2021 at 1:51 PM, JAzumah said:

Unreliability is a function of covering up the fact that you can't meet the current schedule. The easiest way to fix that is to CHANGE THE SCHEDULE while you hire new drivers. It is not to pretend that there isn't a problem. Frequency is less of an issue than uncertainty. I would agree that it is just easier for the MTA to operate the schedule that they publish. It is obvious that they can't.

You're continuing with this red herring fallacy regarding scheduling, while poor 73 year old Raymond Simmons just wants adequate service on his B20... Hire the god damn drivers already.

On 4/20/2021 at 8:52 PM, JAzumah said:

Buses have to carry people. The MTA exists to move people. I know that is a radical concept, but that is why it exists. That means that service may have to be shifted around every so often if the demand grows or drops on a route.

The irony here is that the MTA can't get out of its own way....