INDman Posted August 8, 2009 Share #26 Posted August 8, 2009 If my memory serves me right, the bulkhead rollsign on the R17's which used to run on the 42nd Street shuttle, read "Shuttle" instead of 70(SS). . Not many IRT trains had the multi color route signs including the 70(SS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 8, 2009 Share #27 Posted August 8, 2009 Not many IRT trains had the multi color route signs including the 70(SS). Yeah, I thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted August 8, 2009 Share #28 Posted August 8, 2009 The problem with the double letters were, single letters were locals also, A was only express in Manhattan and Rush Hours thru Brooklyn, E and F only were express in Queens, N before the terminal swap was local in Queens. B also wasnt always express. What you had was, double letters were always local, single letters might be express somewhere but local elsewhere and at off hours might be local. Add to that inconsistent rollsigns and the system was really confusing back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 8, 2009 Share #29 Posted August 8, 2009 The problem with the double letters were, single letters were locals also, A was only express in Manhattan and Rush Hours thru Brooklyn, E and F only were express in Queens, N before the terminal swap was local in Queens. B also wasnt always express. Nope. Express and Local trains are based by trunk line. The is the 8th Avenue express, and the old 70(EE) was the Broadway Local, since it had double letters. The line is the Broadway Express. The Locals and Expresses lines are based by trunk lines in Manhattan, not the outer boroughs. The double letters originally indicated local service, while the express lines had single letters. Even though the old 70(QB) line was the Broadway Express, it had two letters. This meant that the 70(QB) route went over the Manhattan Bridge. The "B" in the the 70(QB) route meant "via Bridge". There used to be a (BB) route from 1940 to 1967, and it ran local & it also had double letters. The (BB) was an 6th Avenue Local, and I think it used to run rush hours only. As for the old 70(F), I don't know why it didn't had double letters, even though it was the 6th Avenue Local (like now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandoftheLost Posted August 8, 2009 Share #30 Posted August 8, 2009 How can consider 8th Avenue Express. when line run local ( 8th Avenue LocaL in late nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 8, 2009 Share #31 Posted August 8, 2009 How can consider 8th Avenue Express. when line runlocal ( 8th Avenue LocaL in late nights. That's during the late night hours, not the regular weekday daytime hours. The is the 8th Avenue Exp. The only reason why the runs local during the late nights, is because the does not run in those hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 8, 2009 Share #32 Posted August 8, 2009 Can someone explain why the 70(EE) went down Broadway while the 70(E) went (and still goes) down 8th Avenue? Even though they have the same letters. I mean the 70(A) and the 70(AA) both went down 8th, so why didn't these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRG Posted August 8, 2009 Share #33 Posted August 8, 2009 Can someone explain why the 70(EE) went down Broadway while the 70(E) went (and still goes) down 8th Avenue? Even though they have the same letters. I mean the 70(A) and the 70(AA) both went down 8th, so why didn't these? The 70(N) went Express in Manhattan and local in Queens. The 70(EE) went local in both Manhattan and Queens. Why the 70(EE) went via Broadway I really don't know. But in 1979 the 70(EE) was eliminated when trains were color-coded according to their trunk lines and the was formed as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 9, 2009 Share #34 Posted August 9, 2009 But in 1979 the 70(EE) was eliminated Actually, the 70(EE) train got eliminated in August 27, 1976, and the 70(N) got extended to 71st/Continental Avenue-Forest Hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 9, 2009 Share #35 Posted August 9, 2009 The was a new Broadway route created by Chrystie Street on November 27, 1967. Maybe EE was picked because the route was planned to serve Queens Boulevard as a local. When the was cancelled on August 27, 1976, the was extended to 71st Avenue-Continental Avenue. This is what we had on Broadway: Broadwy Local Weekdays Normal Hours Broadway Local Broadway Express Broadway Express Weekdays Rush Hours During its' nearly nine years of service, the ran along with the and the . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 9, 2009 Share #36 Posted August 9, 2009 Can someone explain why the 70(EE) went down Broadway while the 70(E) went (and still goes) down 8th Avenue? Even though they have the same letters. I mean the 70(A) and the 70(AA) both went down 8th, so why didn't these? Actually, the 70(EE) did ran on the 8th Avenue line, but from September 1932 to December of 1940, when the IND 6th Avenue Subway opened. It ran from Continental Avenue-Forest Hills to Chambers Street-Hudson Terminal during off-peak hours when the 70(GG) did not run on the Queens Blvd line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 9, 2009 Share #37 Posted August 9, 2009 The was a new Broadway route created by Chrystie Street on November 27, 1967. Maybe EE was picked because the route was planned to serve Queens Boulevard as a local. When the was cancelled on August 27, 1976, the was extended to 71st Avenue-Continental Avenue. This is what we had on Broadway: Broadwy Local Weekdays Normal Hours Broadway Local Broadway Express Broadway Express Weekdays Rush Hours During its' nearly nine years of service, the ran along with the and the . Thank you. That is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 9, 2009 Share #38 Posted August 9, 2009 The was a new Broadway route created by Chrystie Street on November 27, 1967. Maybe EE was picked because the route was planned to serve Queens Boulevard as a local. When the was cancelled on August 27, 1976, the was extended to 71st Avenue-Continental Avenue. This is what we had on Broadway: Broadwy Local Weekdays Normal Hours Broadway Local Broadway Express Broadway Express Weekdays Rush Hours During its' nearly nine years of service, the ran along with the and the . Ahhh, I see. BTW put a 70 in front of the double letters and you'll see the bullet: 70(EE) Don't even have to click more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt91 Posted August 9, 2009 Share #39 Posted August 9, 2009 As for the old 70(F), I don't know why it didn't had double letters, even though it was the 6th Avenue Local (like now). Because IMO if it was (FF) people would think it was QBlvd LCL, so they probably just stuck with 70(F) Ahhh, I see. BTW put a 70 in front of the double letters and you'll see the bullet: 70(EE) Don't even have to click more. Anymore hidden bullets besides the 70 ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 9, 2009 Share #40 Posted August 9, 2009 Anymore hidden bullets besides the 70 ones? Check your PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCTNostalgia Posted August 9, 2009 Share #41 Posted August 9, 2009 It was to stop confusion with local routes. EXAMPLE-The Would be the but would the train be the 11 train! Or the be the 77 train! So I guess it was just obvious to take away the double letters and make them single letters. 70(AA)-(There was already an route) 70(CC)- 70(GG)- 70(LL)- 70(QB)- 70(RR)- (The 70(SS) was made in 1979!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted August 9, 2009 Share #42 Posted August 9, 2009 Beginning with the Chrystie changes, they basically broke away from the old principles of the double letters (which in other cases were impossible to maintain consistently, with all the joining of routes). The 70(EE) was originally proposed as the new "QB" (as the 70(QB) that did run was not planned at that stage). Later on, it was "QM". By the time the changes went into effect, they just made it a local branch of the 70(E), perhaps because "EE" was on the R1-9 signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted August 9, 2009 Share #43 Posted August 9, 2009 Nope. Express and Local trains are based by trunk line. The is the 8th Avenue express, and the old 70(EE) was the Broadway Local, since it had double letters. The line is the Broadway Express. The Locals and Expresses lines are based by trunk lines in Manhattan, not the outer boroughs. The double letters originally indicated local service, while the express lines had single letters. Even though the old 70(QB) line was the Broadway Express, it had two letters. This meant that the 70(QB) route went over the Manhattan Bridge. The "B" in the the 70(QB) route meant "via Bridge". There used to be a (BB) route from 1940 to 1967, and it ran local & it also had double letters. The (BB) was an 6th Avenue Local, and I think it used to run rush hours only. As for the old 70(F), I don't know why it didn't had double letters, even though it was the 6th Avenue Local (like now). What about 70(E) ? Thats always been the 8 Ave local with AA and CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 9, 2009 Share #44 Posted August 9, 2009 The 70(E) and 70(F) were single letters primarily for being expresses on Queens Boulevard just like the 70(D) for being express on Concourse (Pre Chrystie Street 70(D) ). In the 1970's, the 70(E) did run express in Manhattan, as shown by the 1972 subway map. Manhattan 70(E) express service was rush hours. The 70(QB) was unique - the letters stood for Q via Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilbluefoxie Posted August 9, 2009 Share #45 Posted August 9, 2009 That mustve been the time when it used the lower level of 42 St Station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 10, 2009 Share #46 Posted August 10, 2009 What about 70(E) ? Thats always been the 8 Ave local with AA and CC Yeah, I know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrene18 Posted August 10, 2009 Share #47 Posted August 10, 2009 The 70(E) and 70(F) were single letters primarily for being expresses on Queens Boulevard just like the 70(D) for being express on Concourse (Pre Chrystie Street 70(D) ). In the 1970's, the 70(E) did run express in Manhattan, as shown by the 1972 subway map. Manhattan 70(E) express service was rush hours. The 70(QB) was unique - the letters stood for Q via Bridge. The Locals and Expresses lines are based by trunk lines in Manhattan, not the outer boroughs. I already knew that the 70(QB) was the Q via Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EE Broadway Local Posted August 11, 2009 Share #48 Posted August 11, 2009 Sorry, no, not on the Independent. Sixth Avenue didn't have express service until after Chrystie Street opened on Sunday November 26, 1967. Based on a Manhattan trunk line, Sixth Avenue would've been (BB) (DD) and (FF). But because the ran Concourse and CPW express and the ran Queens Boulevard express, they were given single letters and is why Sixth Avenue was the (BB) and . When the express tracks between 34th Street and West Fourth Street opened, the new and the were routed via these and the kept on the local tracks. The (BB) ran 168th Street-Washington Heights to 34th Street-Herald Square and made local stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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