Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

No... The city stepped in and decided to get rid of all of the private companies and put them all under Bus with the thinking being that we'd have better service.  It's funny that you ask that question because this morning's commute was a disaster, and several passengers talked about how things were so much better when Liberty Lines ran the service.  A BxM1 broke down at Henry Hudson Parkway and West 239th street.  We had to wait another 20+ minutes for another express bus, and my commute going to work has been a mess this entire week...  Commute times well over an hour and 30 minutes one way.

They wished. 

 

Tell that to the people who rely on the BM's (me included).

[bobtehpanda]

They wished. 

 

Tell that to the people who rely on the BM's (me included).

 

Maybe it was better for express bus riders, but many of the routes the private companies ran were local bus routes, which definitely did not maintain the same kind of standard that MTA did.

[qjtransitmaster]

Maybe it was better for express bus riders, but many of the routes the private companies ran were local bus routes, which definitely did not maintain the same kind of standard that MTA did.

At least the local buses got better. 

[Culver]

Maybe it was better for express bus riders, but many of the routes the private companies ran were local bus routes, which definitely did not maintain the same kind of standard that MTA did.

You mean GBL and Command's 300-year-old shitboxes were not enjoyed by the people using them?

 

I do agree though that the express bus service by Bus does seem to be headed for a constant chopping block with the cuts, which sucks.

[Q43LTD]

You mean GBL and Command's 300-year-old shitboxes were not enjoyed by the people using them?

 

I do agree though that the express bus service by Bus does seem to be headed for a constant chopping block with the cuts, which sucks.

It wasn't just Green and Command, it was pretty much all 7 of them that had "300 year old shitboxes"...

[Brooklyn]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, although I will assume it probably has.

 

I really think the B65 should be extended eastward to at least East New York Avenue/Eastern Parkway.

 

I've always thought Buffalo av was a strange terminal.

 

Best case scenario, I think it should continue to either Broadway Junction or further east to Pennsylvania av.

 

There is a gap of east/west bus service in that area.

 

Thoughts?

[B35 via Church]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, although I will assume it probably has.

 

I really think the B65 should be extended eastward to at least East New York Avenue/Eastern Parkway.

 

I've always thought Buffalo av was a strange terminal.

 

Best case scenario, I think it should continue to either Broadway Junction or further east to Pennsylvania av.

 

There is a gap of east/west bus service in that area.

 

Thoughts?

Yeah, the long time consensus is to extend either (or both) the 45 & 65 to Broadway Junction....

 

I happen to agree that it should be the 65, and not the 45 that gets an eastward extension.... although I would stop it short @ Alabama, to end it w/ the B12 (which would instantly take stress off the B12, since so many riders ride it b/w Alabama av & Saratoga).... Currently, the B12 simply gets swamped @ Alabama, so extending the (45 or 65) has a dual benefit.....

[Brooklyn]

Yeah, the long time consensus is to extend either (or both) the 45 & 65 to Broadway Junction....

 

I happen to agree that it should be the 65, and not the 45 that gets an eastward extension.... although I would stop it short @ Alabama, to end it w/ the B12 (which would instantly take stress off the B12, since so many riders ride it b/w Alabama av & Saratoga).... Currently, the B12 simply gets swamped @ Alabama, so extending the (45 or 65) has a dual benefit.....

 

I figured as much.

 

There is a big east/west service gap in that area--didn't occur to me until I traveled there. Buffalo Av doesn't make sense as a terminal.

 

I would have the 65 go to Broadway Junction.

 

As for the 45, I was thinking of three possible eastward terminals:

 

1. East NY Avenue/Strauss st (simple and easy turnaround--just 3 more long blocks east and you get transfers to the B12 and B7)

3. Pitkin Av/Strauss st (Just 3.5 blocks away from current terminal. Meets up the 12, 14 and 7 routes and gives residents shopping access)

3. Broadway Junction

 

Your thoughts?

[B35 via Church]

I figured as much.

 

There is a big east/west service gap in that area--didn't occur to me until I traveled there. Buffalo Av doesn't make sense as a terminal.

 

I would have the 65 go to Broadway Junction.

 

As for the 45, I was thinking of three possible eastward terminals:

 

1. East NY Avenue/Strauss st (simple and easy turnaround--just 3 more long blocks east and you get transfers to the B12 and B7)

3. Pitkin Av/Strauss st (Just 3.5 blocks away from current terminal. Meets up the 12, 14 and 7 routes and gives residents shopping access)

3. Broadway Junction

 

Your thoughts?

My thoughts regarding the B45 were previously stated:

 

I happen to agree that it should be the 65, and not the 45 that gets an eastward extension....

So to sum it up, I'd leave the 45 where it is.....

The 65 could benefit more from the increased ridership, so I would send that route eastward....

----------------------

 

 

Anyway, someone else on here brought up what you're mentioning about having buses end either at ENY av or Pitkin av.... Not necessarily a bad idea, but AFAIC, it boils down to personal preference as to which (or both) of those routes should get extended.....

 

The one thing I will say is, I don't think I've ever heard one person yet argue that both routes should remain terminating @ St. Johns/Ralph...... There is an obvious void of service out in Ocean Hill that needs to be addressed....

[Brooklyn]

I really think Ocean Hill and East New York need better designed routes.

 

Some of the service patterns make little sense to me.

 

That service gap in really without excuse. And you'd have to go there to see--it's actually quite a distance.

 

But I agree, the prime candidate for extension is the B65.

[Brooklyn]

It's funny--I was just looking at an old bus map:

 

There used to be a B40 that ran on Ralph av and turned on St. Johns Place  and continued along East NY Avenue then onto Liberty av.

 

It terminated on Pennsylvania av.

 

So there used to be a service along this route.

[Trainmaster5]

It's funny--I was just looking at an old bus map:

 

There used to be a B40 that ran on Ralph av and turned on St. Johns Place  and continued along East NY Avenue then onto Liberty av.

 

It terminated on Pennsylvania av.

 

So there used to be a service along this route.

Years before the B40 went that way the B65/ Bergen St route used that same routing and continued all the way to City Line where the B12 used to terminate before the recent cuts in service. One would think that that there is more potential ridership today than there was back then due to population growth but I'm not a planner so I'll leave that to the "experts" at the . Carry on.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Changing the topic a bit:

 

 

I would remove the 11:35 AM, 12:35 PM,and 8:00 PM trips to Brooklyn.

I would remove the 11:00 AM, 12:10 PM, and 1:20 PM to Manhattan.

[B35 via Church]

Changing the topic a bit:

 

 

I would remove the 11:35 AM, 12:35 PM,and 8:00 PM trips to Brooklyn.

I would remove the 11:00 AM, 12:10 PM, and 1:20 PM to Manhattan.

...of what?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

...of what?

Oops...

 

I was tazlking about the BM4.

[B35 via Church]

Oops...

 

I was tazlking about the BM4.

Just to let you know something... that current 8pm trip on the BM4 is a combination of the old 7:45 & 8:45 trip...

 

Basically, no one rode that 8:45, and the 7:45 had its fair share of riders; about 10-15 ppl. after having left manhattan (I used to catch that last BM4 trip when I got out late back when I worked in manhattan).... All it is really, is that they got rid of the 8:45, and made that 7:45 trip start running back towards brooklyn 15 mins later....

 

The result, less ridership (on the current 8pm trip on the BM4)....

Why, because the BM1 much more often than not comes before it (even though there was always an 8pm trip on the BM1)... With more riders on it too..... Something tells me that that last BM4 trip unofficially leaves minutes after that BM1 trip, but w/e......

 

What you're asking for, as far as that particular trip on the BM4 is concerned, I believe will eventually happen anyway.... That 8pm trip from what I've noticed (after heading out to pizza suprema coming from off the LIRR, I walk over to 5th/30th... Most days, the 1 comes before the 4, but when the 4 does come first, there's less than 5 ppl by time I get on, and maybe 2-3 ppl board in all of the lower manhattan segment.... This is how I know the (current) situation w/ the BM1 & BM4 around that time)....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Just to let you know something... that current 8pm trip on the BM4 is a combination of the old 7:45 & 8:45 trip...

 

Basically, no one rode that 8:45, and the 7:45 had its fair share of riders; about 10-15 ppl. after having left manhattan (I used to catch that last BM4 trip when I got out late back when I worked in manhattan).... All it is really, is that they got rid of the 8:45, and made that 7:45 trip start running back towards brooklyn 15 mins later....

 

The result, less ridership (on the current 8pm trip on the BM4)....

Why, because the BM1 much more often than not comes before it (even though there was always an 8pm trip on the BM1)... With more riders on it too..... Something tells me that that last BM4 trip unofficially leaves minutes after that BM1 trip, but w/e......

 

What you're asking for, as far as that particular trip on the BM4 is concerned, I believe will eventually happen anyway.... That 8pm trip from what I've noticed (after heading out to pizza suprema coming from off the LIRR, I walk over to 5th/30th... Most days, the 1 comes before the 4, but when the 4 does come first, there's less than 5 ppl by time I get on, and maybe 2-3 ppl board in all of the lower manhattan segment.... This is how I know the (current) situation w/ the BM1 & BM4 around that time)....

Well, it could happen, given how the past 6 years, they changed the BM service spans at a rate of every 2 years (in the fall, if the chain continues, something could happen in the fall).

 

Also, with the exception of the part in Kensington, the BM1 covers the entire portion of the BM4 north of Avenue K/ Nodtrand, the remaining portion could be finished with a transfer to the B44 or the BM3 to the B31. The BM3 leaves at 7:50 PM (similar to the time of the old 7:45 PM trip) and at 8:20 PM (so it's more frequent for that specific time interval).

 

 

 

Also, another thought.

 

The BM1,2,3,4 all pass near Brooklyn College (does the 2 stop at the junction anymore?)

They should advertise for students (who go into the city) that the BM1/2/3/4 is a faster ride into the city than the subway, although for a higher fare. 

Edited June 28, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I think one of the BM's should at least run on Sundays. I know how crappy they made the buses run, but maybe it could bring in ridership and encourage more people to use it in the week. I'm still astounded on how Command ran a myriad of buses on weekdays and saturdays, yet none of them had sunday service.

[B35 via Church]

Well, it could happen, given how the past 6 years, they changed the BM service spans at a rate of every 2 years (in the fall, if the chain continues, something could happen in the fall).

 

Also, with the exception of the part in Kensington, the BM1 covers the entire portion of the BM4 north of Avenue K/ Nodtrand, the remaining portion could be finished with a transfer to the B44 or the BM3 to the B31. The BM3 leaves at 7:50 PM (similar to the time of the old 7:45 PM trip) and at 8:20 PM (so it's more frequent for that specific time interval).

 

 

 

Also, another thought.

 

The BM1,2,3,4 all pass near Brooklyn College (does the 2 stop at the junction anymore?)

They should advertise for students (who go into the city) that the BM1/2/3/4 is a faster ride into the city than the subway, although for a higher fare. 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone come off a BM1 to take a SB B44.... My guess is b/c these would be people opting for the BM3, than doing whatever they do to get eastward (walk, ride hitch, etc)..... Saying that another way, folks would rather take the BM3 further south & pan back east, than get off the BM1 @ Nostrant for the SB B44.....

 

Anyway, Of the times I've gotten off at Nostrand on the BM1 (where others have gotten off as well), riders were walking NB, or back west.... As for anyone talking the Bm3 to the B31, I actually think there are some people that do that (not in any noticeable number of course)..... I didn't take the BM3 that far south coming home (if I caught it, I'd either get off at ocean pkwy stop or the East 18th stop), so I can't say w/ any real certainty as to what riders (that would normally take BM4's) do.....

 

As for the BM2.... Nope, that stop at the junction is gone.... Makes sense too, since you don't have exp. buses dropping pax off (usually) b/w an already situated B103 & or B41..... after the foster stop, the next stop is over there on H & NY av (which is a rather popular stop on the PM trips; the mansfield gardens folks)..... Only ppl. that would really get off there (the junction stop, I mean) were people that had/wanted to do w/e shopping, before eventually heading home....

 

I think one of the BM's should at least run on Sundays. I know how crappy they made the buses run, but maybe it could bring in ridership and encourage more people to use it in the week. I'm still astounded on how Command ran a myriad of buses on weekdays and saturdays, yet none of them had sunday service.

I suppose.... Maybe the BM1.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone come off a BM1 to take a SB B44.... My guess is b/c these would be people opting for the BM3, than doing whatever they do to get eastward (walk, ride hitch, etc)..... Saying that another way, folks would rather take the BM3 further south & pan back east, than get off the BM1 @ Nostrant for the SB B44.....

 

Anyway, Of the times I've gotten off at Nostrand on the BM1 (where others have gotten off as well), riders were walking NB, or back west.... As for anyone talking the Bm3 to the B31, I actually think there are some people that do that (not in any noticeable number of course)..... I didn't take the BM3 that far south coming home (if I caught it, I'd either get off at ocean pkwy stop or the East 18th stop), so I can't say w/ any real certainty as to what riders (that would normally take BM4's) do.....

 

As for the BM2.... Nope, that stop at the junction is gone.... Makes sense too, since you don't have exp. buses dropping pax off (usually) b/w an already situated B103 & or B41..... after the foster stop, the next stop is over there on H & NY av (which is a rather popular stop on the PM trips; the mansfield gardens folks)..... Only ppl. that would really get off there (the junction stop, I mean) were people that had/wanted to do w/e shopping, before eventually heading home....

 

I suppose.... Maybe the BM1.

Yep, I think it should be the BM1 too.

 

As for running times to Manhattan, I would run it from 7:30 AM to 2:30 pm 

 

To Brooklyn: 11:59 AM to 8:00 PM

 

I would start it off like that, and see ridership patterns from there. 

 

I would want to grasp ridership from 40% of the Saturday BM1 base (68 riders), 25% from the Saturday BM3 base (38.5 riders), 10% from the Saturday BM4 base (6.7 riders), and 5% from the Saturday BM2 base (8.35 riders).

 

Combined together, would give you 121.55 riders (let's round it up to 122).

That would appromiximate about 7 riders per run (a bit higher).

Edited July 2, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[NYSubwayBuff]

IMO if you want that many riders from the BM3/BM4 base you would have to run the bus via Church because about 4 ppl would get onto my BM3/4 (if im fanning) on those church ave stops

[aemoreira81]

B70 and B37 - southern ends of both routes

 

The B70 currently runs along 7 and 8 Avenues, and along Fort Hamilton Parkway between 82 and 92 Streets. The B37 is a straight shot along 3 Avenue. However, both routes miss the big shopping district between Fort Hamilton Parkway and 4 Avenue on 86 Street directly, and the B37 has no direct subway connections other than at its northern end (although it is parallel to the for its entire route). The B70 also has no subway connection between the VA Hospital and the 8 Avenue station at 62 Street.

 

I would thus propose that a swap of the B37 and B70's southern ends be swapped. No new stops would be created, but both routes would now serve the 86 Street station directly as well as the 86 Street business district. I would think that increased ridership on the B37 would come from the route being more useful on its southern end, offsetting increased running times on both routes. The B37 would now run to the VA Hospital, while the B70 would now run to Shore Road and 3 Avenue.

 

B37 - Sunset Park

 

The B37 is a straight shot on 3 Avenue. There are two major destinations one block away in either direction---the R train stations to the east and Lutheran Medical Center to the west. However, there are also changes in elevation that would make it impractical for lesser-ambulatory customers to use without a transfer. As such, I would propose two route diversions:

 

1. N/B from 66 to 52 Street and S/B from 55 to 60 Street - the B37 would use 2 Avenue instead of 3 Avenue. This would bring direct service to both Lutheran and the Brooklyn Army Terminal. Existing B11 stops would be used where possible. There would be new stops at 2 Avenue and 58 Street, far side, and 60 Street and 2 Avenue, after the turn, northbound, and at 2 Avenue at 63, 60, and 58 Streets (the only street between 65 and 56 Streets that crosses 3 Avenue is 60 Street, requiring such a diversion, as a failure to divert after 65 Street would leave a long distance between stops).

2. N/B from 39 to 36 Street and S/B from 37 to 39 Street - the B37 would divert to 4 Avenue to serve the 36 Street station, to provide an additional subway connection.

 

In addition, 36 Street would be established as a short-turn north terminus during peak periods to provide additional service on the residential portions of the B37 without additional service.

Edited July 3, 2014 by aemoreira81

[Via Garibaldi 8]

B70 and B37 - southern ends of both routes

 

The B70 currently runs along 7 and 8 Avenues, and along Fort Hamilton Parkway between 82 and 92 Streets. The B37 is a straight shot along 3 Avenue. However, both routes miss the big shopping district between Fort Hamilton Parkway and 4 Avenue on 86 Street directly, and the B37 has no direct subway connections other than at its northern end (although it is parallel to the for its entire route). The B70 also has no subway connection between the VA Hospital and the 8 Avenue station at 62 Street.

 

I would thus propose that a swap of the B37 and B70's southern ends be swapped. No new stops would be created, but both routes would now serve the 86 Street station directly as well as the 86 Street business district. I would think that increased ridership on the B37 would come from the route being more useful on its southern end, offsetting increased running times on both routes. The B37 would now run to the VA Hospital, while the B70 would now run to Shore Road and 3 Avenue.

 

B37 - Sunset Park

 

The B37 is a straight shot on 3 Avenue. There are two major destinations one block away in either direction---the R train stations to the east and Lutheran Medical Center to the west. However, there are also changes in elevation that would make it impractical for lesser-ambulatory customers to use without a transfer. As such, I would propose two route diversions:

 

1. N/B from 66 to 52 Street and S/B from 55 to 60 Street - the B37 would use 2 Avenue instead of 3 Avenue. This would bring direct service to both Lutheran and the Brooklyn Army Terminal. Existing B11 stops would be used where possible. There would be new stops at 2 Avenue and 58 Street, far side, and 60 Street and 2 Avenue, after the turn, northbound, and at 2 Avenue at 63, 60, and 58 Streets (the only street between 65 and 56 Streets that crosses 3 Avenue is 60 Street, requiring such a diversion, as a failure to divert after 65 Street would leave a long distance between stops).

2. N/B from 39 to 36 Street and S/B from 37 to 39 Street - the B37 would divert to 4 Avenue to serve the 36 Street station, to provide an additional subway connection.

 

In addition, 36 Street would be established as a short-turn north terminus during peak periods to provide additional service on the residential portions of the B37 without additional service.

Umm.... Yeah... No... The B37 is wanted on 3rd Avenue and 3rd Avenue only in Bay Ridge.  Do you even read up on what the communities want before you come up with these proposals?  Bay Ridge has been fighting to get the B37 back for almost 4 years.  They just want the route the way that it was.  Nothing more nothing less. I am happy to have taken part in helping to get that bus line restored, and the goal is to get it restored fully back to Court St. where it belongs.  The B37 is wanted on 3rd Avenue for the shopping and especially for the seniors that need it in Bay Ridge and with Barclay's now open, there is even more of a desire for people from Bay Ridge and Sunset Park to have the bus along 3rd Avenue, as well as access to Downtown Brooklyn.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. B70 and B37 - southern ends of both routes

 

 The B70 currently runs along 7 and 8 Avenues, and along Fort Hamilton Parkway between 82 and 92 Streets. The B37 is a straight shot along 3 Avenue. However, both routes miss the big shopping district between Fort Hamilton Parkway and 4 Avenue on 86 Street directly, and the B37 has no direct subway connections other than at its northern end (although it is parallel to the for its entire route). The B70 also has no subway connection between the VA Hospital and the 8 Avenue station at 62 Street.

 

I would thus propose that a swap of the B37 and B70's southern ends be swapped. No new stops would be created, but both routes would now serve the 86 Street station directly as well as the 86 Street business district. I would think that increased ridership on the B37 would come from the route being more useful on its southern end, offsetting increased running times on both routes. The B37 would now run to the VA Hospital, while the B70 would now run to Shore Road and 3 Avenue.

 

2. B37 - Sunset Park

 

The B37 is a straight shot on 3 Avenue. There are two major destinations one block away in either direction---the R train stations to the east and Lutheran Medical Center to the west. However, there are also changes in elevation that would make it impractical for lesser-ambulatory customers to use without a transfer. As such, I would propose two route diversions:

 

1. N/B from 66 to 52 Street and S/B from 55 to 60 Street - the B37 would use 2 Avenue instead of 3 Avenue. This would bring direct service to both Lutheran and the Brooklyn Army Terminal. Existing B11 stops would be used where possible. There would be new stops at 2 Avenue and 58 Street, far side, and 60 Street and 2 Avenue, after the turn, northbound, and at 2 Avenue at 63, 60, and 58 Streets (the only street between 65 and 56 Streets that crosses 3 Avenue is 60 Street, requiring such a diversion, as a failure to divert after 65 Street would leave a long distance between stops).

2. N/B from 39 to 36 Street and S/B from 37 to 39 Street - the B37 would divert to 4 Avenue to serve the 36 Street station, to provide an additional subway connection.

 

3. In addition, 36 Street would be established as a short-turn north terminus during peak periods to provide additional service on the residential portions of the B37 without additional service.

1.You would attract far more riders on the B70 as it is, serving only 8th Avenue rather than 86 street , from south of 86 street, main reason being, the is express in Brooklyn and gets to the city quicker than the .

 

What you also don't seem to realize is, 3rd Avenue is a commercial district of it's own, and people do utilize the route within the neighborhood. These specific groups either walk to the subway or take the B37 to the , now that the option is available. I mean, why do you think service is set up that way. The routes are very close to each other. If you're going to the shopping district, look for the bus route that goes there. The B37 does well as it is in Bay Ridge. Sending it to the would do nothing but duplicate what the B16 and B37 already do. VA Hospital customers would not want to take the to the B37, I think they would want to take the B70 to the as it is and vice versa.

 

 

2. But see, this is why you have a transfer. You still wouldn't serve the hospital directly, and the B11 offers a transfer at 52 or 55 (depending on the direction). You make 37 serve the hospital, and you would actually detract the amount of riders who would take only along 3rd Avenue. Good chance the B11 would be cut from the hospital as well. My Question is, which serves a greater service area, the B11 or the B37? Because we want the majority covered.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but the B70 serves the exact same purpose you're trying to describe. The ridership on 3rd Avenue doesn't want 4th Avenue, they want Downtown. The B70 serves the perfectly. 

 

 

Imma just go a bit off topic for a moment.

 

I rode the B37 on Monday, trying to see ridership patterns. There were two main ridership patterns, one which mainly was residents using the bus within Bay Ridge, and riders from the 50's along 3rd Avenue getting off at Atlantic and 3rd. If this is the common pattern of riders along the B37 starting from now, it would prove what I've said. If people wanted the , they would walk one over.

 

There's rhyme and reason for (almost) every route pattern in the system right now. Why do you think the B35 doesn't serve the like the B70 does? If the B35 were to do the current B70 pattern west of 8th Avenue, good chance of making the B70 terminate at the 9th Avenue , or 5th Avenue.

Edited July 3, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[GojiMet86]

How do you guys know so much about ridership and stuff?