Staten Island Division: 2010 and beyond

[checkmatechamp13]

There is one problem that I just can't seemto figure out-how can the S55 and S56 be made more cost-effective? They already go to the SI Mall, and there are no major attractions that they could be extended to that would significantly increase ridership.

 

The only destinations are:

SeaView Hospital (while this would provide a direct connection between New Springville and the SeaView Hospital, I can't picture the S55/S56 becoming much more cost-efficient because of it)

 

The College of Staten Island (all that would do is steal a little bit of ridership from the S44/S59 south of Victory Blvd, as the ridership is unlikely to increase very much-people are aware that there is fairly frequent service on Richmond Avenue, and if they wanted to take a bus to the SI Mall, they would've done so)

 

One idea is to extend the S55 and S56 up to Port Richmond and eliminate the S59. You have the problem of the S89 "technically" having a local version (which isn't a big deal, as the route is sufficiently different), and the problem of what pattern to run on the weekends (ridership isn't going to go to the point where Annadale and Hugenot are going to warrant weekend service)

 

Another idea is to combine these routes with the S61/S91. The problem is that there is nothing really of interest on the S61/S91 route. The St. George Ferry can be accessed from the South Shore via the S74, S78, or SIR, and the only other points of interest are Clove Lakes Park and the back entrance to CSI. I guess if there are really no extra costs involved, as you are just tying loose ends of routes together, it can't hurt. I don't think the S61/S91 are too delay-prone anyway.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

There is one problem that I just can't seemto figure out-how can the S55 and S56 be made more cost-effective? They already go to the SI Mall, and there are no major attractions that they could be extended to that would significantly increase ridership.

 

The only destinations are:

SeaView Hospital (while this would provide a direct connection between New Springville and the SeaView Hospital, I can't picture the S55/S56 becoming much more cost-efficient because of it)

 

The College of Staten Island (all that would do is steal a little bit of ridership from the S44/S59 south of Victory Blvd, as the ridership is unlikely to increase very much-people are aware that there is fairly frequent service on Richmond Avenue, and if they wanted to take a bus to the SI Mall, they would've done so)

 

One idea is to extend the S55 and S56 up to Port Richmond and eliminate the S59. You have the problem of the S89 "technically" having a local version (which isn't a big deal, as the route is sufficiently different), and the problem of what pattern to run on the weekends (ridership isn't going to go to the point where Annadale and Hugenot are going to warrant weekend service)

 

Another idea is to combine these routes with the S61/S91. The problem is that there is nothing really of interest on the S61/S91 route. The St. George Ferry can be accessed from the South Shore via the S74, S78, or SIR, and the only other points of interest are Clove Lakes Park and the back entrance to CSI. I guess if there are really no extra costs involved, as you are just tying loose ends of routes together, it can't hurt. I don't think the S61/S91 are too delay-prone anyway.

 

Somewhat related to this subject & these topics is the former landfill site. Have you taken the Parks Dept Landfill Tour? It's very interesting. It gives you a new perspective on the Island. They leave from/to the Eltingville Transit Center on Saturdays,every other Saturday I believe. Trips have to be appointmented ahead of time. But it's FREE:cool:

[checkmatechamp13]

Somewhat related to this subject & these topics is the former landfill site. Have you taken the Parks Dept Landfill Tour? It's very interesting. It gives you a new perspective on the Island. They leave from/to the Eltingville Transit Center on Saturdays,every other Saturday I believe. Trips have to be appointmented ahead of time. But it's FREE:cool:

 

I've heard about those trips, but I never had the time to go. I would assume they would tell you which parts of the landfill would be used for which purposes (walking/biking paths, nature paths, etc), correct?

[Santa Fe via Willow]

I've heard about those trips, but I never had the time to go. I would assume they would tell you which parts of the landfill would be used for which purposes (walking/biking paths, nature paths, etc), correct?

 

Basically.

 

The trip provides unique visual views of SI. Interesting scenery.

[checkmatechamp13]

That's :cool:

 

By the way, I noticed that the S52 makes a loop in South Beach around McClean Avenue, Norway Avenue, and Olympia Blvd. I have an idea to straighten it out.

 

Reroute the S52 to run Hylan Blvd-Sand Lane-Father Capodanno Blvd-Seaview Avenue (and terminate at Richmond Road)

 

A new route would be created to run from the South Beach Park-and-Ride to the Eltingville SIR station via Sand Lane-McClean Avenue-Reid Avenue-Quintard Street-Mason Avenue*-Midland Avenue/Lincoln Avenue-Richmond Road-Amboy Road. (If there was ever any big hub built near the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge, such as the commuter rail line I proposed, that route would be able to feed into that hub)

 

I was debating on whether it would be better to create a new route or to reroute the S78 to run Hylan Blvd-McClean Avenue-Reid Avenue-Quintard Street-Mason Avenue*-Midland Avenue-Hylan Blvd. It would definitely be cheaper to reroute the S78, but I don't know if the S78 and S79 should be split up like that (especially if the S79 receives +SBS+ service).

 

*Mason Avenue would be turned into a through-street. It is currently split into 4 sections: Quintard Street-Benton Avenue, Delaware Avenue-Seaver Avenue, Rowan Avenue-Adams Avenue, and Hamden Avenue-Lincoln Avenue. Each of those section is separated by 1-2 blocks of trees, so it should be relatively easy to connect the sections. (Unless there is opposition to connecting the streets, as they might've been built that way to purposely prevent through-traffic)

[Santa Fe via Willow]

That's :cool:

 

By the way, I noticed that the S52 makes a loop in South Beach around McClean Avenue, Norway Avenue, and Olympia Blvd. I have an idea to straighten it out.

 

Reroute the S52 to run Hylan Blvd-Sand Lane-Father Capodanno Blvd-Seaview Avenue (and terminate at Richmond Road)

 

A new route would be created to run from the South Beach Park-and-Ride to the Eltingville SIR station via Sand Lane-McClean Avenue-Reid Avenue-Quintard Street-Mason Avenue*-Midland Avenue/Lincoln Avenue-Richmond Road-Amboy Road. (If there was ever any big hub built near the Verrazanno-Narrows Bridge, such as the commuter rail line I proposed, that route would be able to feed into that hub)

 

I was debating on whether it would be better to create a new route or to reroute the S78 to run Hylan Blvd-McClean Avenue-Reid Avenue-Quintard Street-Mason Avenue*-Midland Avenue-Hylan Blvd. It would definitely be cheaper to reroute the S78, but I don't know if the S78 and S79 should be split up like that (especially if the S79 receives +SBS+ service).

 

*Mason Avenue would be turned into a through-street. It is currently split into 4 sections: Quintard Street-Benton Avenue, Delaware Avenue-Seaver Avenue, Rowan Avenue-Adams Avenue, and Hamden Avenue-Lincoln Avenue. Each of those section is separated by 1-2 blocks of trees, so it should be relatively easy to connect the sections. (Unless there is opposition to connecting the streets, as they might've been built that way to purposely prevent through-traffic)

 

Your South Beach Park'n'Ride/Eltingville SIR bus route could turn right at the Eltingville SIR, swing up behind the funeral home, left onto Wilson Ave, then left back onto Richmond Ave, when heading back to South Beach.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

Amboy Road bus services ideas:

 

I thought up a bus called the s77, which would cover ALL of Amboy Road & run 24/7/365. Its "isotopes" would be the (s87) LTD & (s97) SHTL.

 

4 possible destinations after the end/start of Amboy Road in New Dorp for the 77 are:

 

* Ramp B in St. George.

 

* Port Richmond Terminal.

 

* Fort Hamilton VA Hospital.

 

* Bayonne E. 22nd St Station.

 

I'll have to disambiguate & explain routing & other things.

 

More to come...

[checkmatechamp13]

Under the current situation of the SIR being free, I can't see a whole lot of people riding it. If the SIR had a fare instituted (either a proof-of-payment or just an increase in demand caused by a connection to the rest of the city), then it might be a different story, with demand being generated from the retail in the Eltingville area.

 

That being said, I think it is best if it doesn't parallel the SIR, which rules out St. George as a possible terminal.

 

As far as service to Brooklyn goes, the 2 Brooklyn-SI routes (the S53/S93 and S79) both have high ridership, with those being the only routes on SI with over 10,000 riders daily. Sending the line to Brooklyn would definitely give the line some ridership, but I feel that priority for new SI-Brooklyn should be given to areas that have no service whatsoever to Brooklyn (the S77 has the S79 a few blocks away on Hylan Blvd, and customers can also take the SIR to Grasmere for the S53).

 

It would be interesting to see if there is demand for service through the Greenbelt. I rode an S57 at about 3PM last week and most of the seats were filled from Victory Blvd to the New Dorp SIR station. Not a whole lot of people got on in the Westerleigh area. The fact that the bus had a decent number of non-student riders told me that there might be demand for increased service, in which case the S77 could run with the S57 into Port Richmond, and the increased frequency might attract some new riders.

 

Overall, I think that it would get the most ridership (per route-mile)if it went to Brooklyn, but it would attract more riders (from cars) by going through the Greenbelt.

 

The problem with any route is frequency. You need to get an idea of what the ridership will be and low ridership causes a lower frequency-causing travelers to use other, more frequent modes of transportation. You have to find the right frequency to make it attractive to riders, but not too expensive to operate.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

I came up with 4 possible destinations for Amboy Road bus services.

 

The route would operate between the Conference House & one of the 4 destinations to be described below. The main thing is ALL of Amboy Rd would be covered & served 24/7/365.

 

The 4 possible desinations:

 

Ramp B in St.George

Via Richmond Rd, Railroad Ave, Midland Ave, Fr Cap Blvd, Bay Street. Tottenville bound serves ALL of Lincoln Ave.

 

Port Richmond Terminal

Via Rockland Ave, Manor Rd, Ocean Terrace, Martling & College Aves, Willowbrook Rd, Port Richmond Ave

 

Fort Hamilton VA Hospital

Same as St.George route basically, except going over the VNB to the VA Hospital via 7th & Cropsey Aves

 

E. 22nd St HBLR Station

Via Rockland Ave, Forest Hill Rd, Woolley Ave, Deppe Place, Willows Rd, Bayonne Bridge, Route 169 to HBLR Station- NJ terminal would be Bayonne Hospital

 

^ Of course, each portion of the route after the end/start of Amboy Rd in New Dorp could be a route in & of itself.

 

 

More to come...

[LRG]

I came up with 4 possible destinations for Amboy Road bus services.

 

The route would operate between the Conference House & one of the 4 destinations to be described below. The main thing is ALL of Amboy Rd would be covered & served 24/7/365.

 

The 4 possible desinations:

 

Ramp B in St.George

Via Richmond Rd, Railroad Ave, Midland Ave, Fr Cap Blvd, Bay Street. Tottenville bound serves ALL of Lincoln Ave.

 

Port Richmond Terminal

Via Rockland Ave, Manor Rd, Ocean Terrace, Martling & College Aves, Willowbrook Rd, Port Richmond Ave

 

Fort Hamilton VA Hospital

Same as St.George route basically, except going over the VNB to the VA Hospital via 7th & Cropsey Aves

 

E. 22nd St HBLR Station

Via Rockland Ave, Forest Hill Rd, Woolley Ave, Deppe Place, Willows Rd, Bayonne Bridge, Route 169 to HBLR Station- NJ terminal would be Bayonne Hospital

 

^ Of course, each portion of the route after the end/start of Amboy Rd in New Dorp could be a route in & of itself.

 

 

More to come...

 

I like the Brooklyn route out of the others Honestly, if the route were to go to St. George it would be another route Tottenville residents would have that serves St. George, which I find redundant. In addition, because this route mirrors the Staten Island railway then I couldn't see this route running at night, and on weekends frequency wouldn't be no less than 20 minutes. but I like it nonetheless. How about we call it the 'S58'??? :tup:

[Santa Fe via Willow]

Under the current situation of the SIR being free, I can't see a whole lot of people riding it. If the SIR had a fare instituted (either a proof-of-payment or just an increase in demand caused by a connection to the rest of the city), then it might be a different story, with demand being generated from the retail in the Eltingville area.

 

That being said, I think it is best if it doesn't parallel the SIR, which rules out St. George as a possible terminal.

 

As far as service to Brooklyn goes, the 2 Brooklyn-SI routes (the S53/S93 and S79) both have high ridership, with those being the only routes on SI with over 10,000 riders daily. Sending the line to Brooklyn would definitely give the line some ridership, but I feel that priority for new SI-Brooklyn should be given to areas that have no service whatsoever to Brooklyn (the S77 has the S79 a few blocks away on Hylan Blvd, and customers can also take the SIR to Grasmere for the S53).

 

It would be interesting to see if there is demand for service through the Greenbelt. I rode an S57 at about 3PM last week and most of the seats were filled from Victory Blvd to the New Dorp SIR station. Not a whole lot of people got on in the Westerleigh area. The fact that the bus had a decent number of non-student riders told me that there might be demand for increased service, in which case the S77 could run with the S57 into Port Richmond, and the increased frequency might attract some new riders.

 

Overall, I think that it would get the most ridership (per route-mile)if it went to Brooklyn, but it would attract more riders (from cars) by going through the Greenbelt.

 

The problem with any route is frequency. You need to get an idea of what the ridership will be and low ridership causes a lower frequency-causing travelers to use other, more frequent modes of transportation. You have to find the right frequency to make it attractive to riders, but not too expensive to operate.

 

I'll be posting my notes on this in this thread soon. Good points about ridership & terminals:tup:

 

I like the Brooklyn route out of the others Honestly, if the route were to go to St. George it would be another route Tottenville residents would have that serves St. George, which I find redundant. In addition, because this route mirrors the Staten Island railway then I couldn't see this route running at night, and on weekends frequency wouldn't be no less than 20 minutes. but I like it nonetheless. How about we call it the 'S58'??? :tup:

 

s58 works:cool:

 

If a Fort Hamilton route, maybe it could serve the 95th St R somehow?

[Santa Fe via Willow]

Would it be a good idea or a bad idea or neutral idea to extend the (S61)/((S91)) to the Eltingville Transit Center?

 

Or just leave well enough alone?

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm not sure. There are already 4 routes that run from the SI Mall to the ETC (S55/S56/S59/S79), so it is a fairly easy transfer.

 

The thing with any extension is that we don't have the access to data that the MTA has as far as new riders that would be generated from the extension.

 

For now, I would say to leave the S61/S91 as is. The only additional route that it would connect with would be the S74 (the express routes don't count, as riders already have the X31, and the X17 for off-peak trips), so unless we find out that there is a high demand for that connection, I would say to leave it as is.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

I'm not sure. There are already 4 routes that run from the SI Mall to the ETC (S55/S56/S59/S79), so it is a fairly easy transfer.

 

The thing with any extension is that we don't have the access to data that the MTA has as far as new riders that would be generated from the extension.

 

For now, I would say to leave the S61/S91 as is. The only additional route that it would connect with would be the S74 (the express routes don't count, as riders already have the X31, and the X17 for off-peak trips), so unless we find out that there is a high demand for that connection, I would say to leave it as is.

 

Yeah! Probably best to leave well enough alone. If something's not broken don't fix it.

 

Maybe weekday mornings some 61s &/or (91)s could start from Marsh Ave, behind where TGI Fridays is. From the first 61/(91) stop on Marsh.

[Santa Fe via Willow]

Notes & thoughts regarding Amboy Rd bus services:

 

Somewhat random. I copied & pasted them here.

 

Re: s77 & its "isotopes"-

They could start/end from the (59)/78 terminal at Amboy & Main next to St. Paul's. They could go down Main, then right on Hylan, then right on Craig, then right on Amboy heading to ?. Tottenville bound 77s/(87)s/(97)s would turn left at Main, ending on the side of the church.

 

My original routing of the 77/(87)/(97) starting/ending from the Conference House is probably better.

 

Main & Amboy's better than my original idea for the 77 & "isotope". I then called it the s50, with (s80) SHTL "isotope", no LTD. My original s50. I had the 50 end/start from Page & Hylan. That routing involved going down Hylan, then right on Craig Ave to Amboy Rd to St. George. Reverse for Tottenville bound.

 

Re: s77 & "isotopes"-

Someone could {cynically perhaps?} (mis)interpret the 77/(87)/(97) as having just extended the 51/(81) out to/from Tottenville. It's true the final 77 is essentially the 51 between Grant City & St. George, but it's misleading. The 77 began originally as the s50/(s80), which went to/from the Ferry via Amboy Rd (ALL of it), Richmond Rd, & roads after Richmond Rd in the same trajectory to/from the Ferry.

 

Rethinking the 77/(87) route(s) in between the end/start of Amboy Rd in New Dorp & St.George. Hmmm...cover 54/57 territories & unserved/neverserved roads to/from the Ferry after the end/start of Amboy Rd(?). As well as service roads & the SIE(?).

 

Thinking of & exploring ALL possible, probable(?) 77/(87) &/or also even (97) routing, & destinations/terminals, after the end/start of Amboy Rd in New Dorp.

 

Re: (s97) SHTL-

 

AM: After NELSON AVE jets to St. George.

 

PM: NELSON AVE is the first stop after leaving the ferry.

 

Re:S77/(87)LTD/(97)SHTL-

Originally I called the 77 & its "isotope(s)" the s50 local & (s80) SHTL. The 50/(80) began at a Page/Hylan turnaround terminal, went down Hylan then right on Craig to Amboy,then went to the ferry. IIRC my thinking on this, which is going back a decade+ now, the 50 followed a direct, or as direct as possible, path along Amboy, & then Richmond Rd, & the roads after that, to/from the ferry terminal.

 

I changed the 50 to a cross island route.

 

Some (s77)s & (87)s would end/start from the Great Kills train station. Others from New Dorp Lane.

 

Arguments against the s77 & its "isotopes":

 

* Amboy Road is UNIQUE in having NO bus routes covering its entire length.

 

* The SIR adequately covers Amboy Road.

 

* Amboy Road is too narrow & tight in spots for a bus like the 77.

 

* Most Amboy Road residents have cars, are drivers.

 

* Nay

 

* There's no need.

 

* Increase express bus & ferry routes/operations.

 

* In this economic/financial climate? NO WAY!

 

//Re:77

On second thought maybe some (s77)s & (87)s should start/end from the King Kullen shopping center in Eltingville instead of the Great Kills train station. Coming from/going to one of the 4 suggested destinations. Why not going towards Tottenville too?

 

//Concerning SI's Richmond Ave "cliche":

 

Some of (77)s & (87)s would end/start from King Kullen in Eltingville. Going BOTH ways. Beats the Richmond Ave cliche, which wouldn't work with the 77 & (87) anyway.

 

//(77) & Rush Hour Jr.

 

The s77, schools & Rush Hour Jr.:

 

AM- There would be (77)s that would run from the Conference House to Tottenville H.S. There would also be (77)s that would START at Clarke Ave & end at Tottenville H.S.

 

Some AM (77)s coming from the Ferry or Brooklyn would end at Clarke Avenue.

 

Other (77)s would run from South Beach{the beach itself/SB's parking lot} to New Dorp H.S. And other (77)s between the Amboy Road King Kullen in Eltingville & New Dorp H.S.

 

PM(Rush Hour Jr)- The reverse of AM for the most part, if not entirely, I would think.

 

//Re:77

Some AM Conference House bound (77)s would START from the beginning/end of Amboy Road in New Dorp.

 

Routing that may work:

After the beginning/end of Amboy Rd in New Dorp, the bus could go left on Richmond Rd to Rockland Ave to Brielle Ave in/out of Seaview, then 57 route to Willowbrook Rd, down Willowbrook, left on Woolley Ave to Forest Hill Rd, then right into CSI, through the campus, then after CSI, go to either Bayonne or Bay Ridge.

 

School trips:

Like other routes, this route would have versions serving various schools & high schools that lie along, &/or near, its routing.

 

More to come...

[BJC]

I've heard about those trips, but I never had the time to go. I would assume they would tell you which parts of the landfill would be used for which purposes (walking/biking paths, nature paths, etc), correct?

 

I hope no one wont be getting sick walking around there.

[LRG]

I hope no one wont be getting sick walking around there.

 

You do know the World Trade Center was build atop of landfill right?

[checkmatechamp13]

@Santa Fe:

 

I definitely don't think that an Amboy Road bus route should be the top priority, for the simple reason that the SIR is a much faster alternative, and there doesn't seem to be much demand at the moment. As you can see, routes that go on the South Shore tend to be really expensive to operate. (The S55/S56 got only 1,800 passengers combined on an average weekday, and cost an average of $6.58 per passenger to operate, prior to June. The Staten Island average on weekdays was $2.53 per passenger. This might change a little bit because of the elimination of school bus service for 7th and 8th graders, but they are still basically low ridership routes)

 

In any case, if there was a demand for service along Amboy Road, there should be 2 conditions that should be met:

 

a) The route doesn't have to go the full length of Amboy Road-2 routes serving different portions of Amboy Road should serve ridership needs better than one along the full length of Amboy Road. The reason goes back to one of the arguments that you listed against it-paralleling the SIR.

 

The route doesn't have to run on Amboy Road-for example, a route along Drumgoogle Road would serve the same general area as Amboy Road, while not entirely duplicating the SIR.

 

That being said, I think a good idea for the short term might be the following:

 

-Extend any S74s that currently start/finish at the Eltingville Transit Center down to Tottenville via Drumgoogle Road-Bloomingdale Road-Amboy Road. (covering the western portion of Amboy Road). Alternatively, you can make that route a seperate route and have it run from Tottenville to the SI Mall.

 

-Extend alternate S51s down Richmond Road and Amboy Road to Tottenville High School.

 

I think that those routes, while not ideal, would get more ridership than an Amboy Road through-route. You would probably only be able to afford to run these routes with the S55/S56's operating hours-6AM-7PM weekdays, but at least they would provide better access to bus service on the South Shore, to more popular places, at a cheaper cost than an Amboy Road through-route.

[B35 via Church]

You do know the World Trade Center was build atop of landfill right?

 

just like all of battery park city...

 

I never forget one time when I took the M20 over there some time ago on a sunday morning (when that area is absolutely dead)... as I was walking, a sudden breeze hit me, and OMG... that stench was not pleasant...

 

it didn't smell like sewage, didn't smell like "the sea" (exactly)...

iono how to describe it....

[BJC]

You do know the World Trade Center was build atop of landfill right?

 

what do you mean?I know back in the 80's,sanitation use that land to dump toxic waste.

[NX Express]

what do you mean?I know back in the 80's,sanitation use that land to dump toxic waste.

 

All of Lower Manhattan is built on landfill from the 1700s.

[EE Broadway Local]

What is the S42 (S42) bus like on Saint Mark's Place and Jersey Street? Is this an interesting area of Staten Island?

[S78 via Hylan]

What is the S42 (S42) bus like on Saint Mark's Place and Jersey Street? Is this an interesting area of Staten Island?

 

Not very busy. The (S52) has become slightly more popular ever since it was rerouted from Richmond Terrace. As for the area, there isn't much to do....

[SIR North Shore]

Since NJT & HBLR are opening the 8th Street station in a couple of weeks, the MTA should take a look at changing the way the (S89) (and a few other routes) runs. It's not effective as a limited for the (S59), because the limited stops are too spread out IMO and it skips the SI Mall entirely.

 

-(S44) becomes the limited on Richmond Avenue to the SI Mall. (S44) would be local from Richmond/Forest to the Ferry. (S94) would be limited the entire route.

 

-(S59) runs every 20 minutes from Port Richmond to Tottenville.

 

-(S89) Limited renumbered as the S58 Local. S58 runs every 20 minutes from Eltingville to HBLR 8th Street.

 

-S58 and (S59) should run alternatively, so that there is local service on Richmond Ave every 10 minutes. While (S44) Limited service to St. George is every 12-15 minutes.

 

-(S44) stops shouldn't be as spread out as the current (S89) stops but it's because of Richmond Avenue why the ferry-bound (S44) is never on-time and bunch up frequently even on 15-20 minute headways. (at the other end of the (s44), an extension of the (S54) would help)

 

 

If you live on the western side of Staten Island, it's actually quicker to hop a ride on the S89 when it's running, take the HBLR to Jersey City & take the PATH than traveling all the way over to the ferry. But the more frequently used routes are the S79 to Brooklyn and the S44 to the ferry so those should receive limiteds while the S89 which has only around 1,000 daily riders becomes the Richmond Ave local.

[checkmatechamp13]

I disagree. I think the current setup is working fine. There is a local and a limited-stop route along the full length of Richmond Avenue with the current setup.

 

Also part of the reason why the S89 only has 1,000 riders is because it runs rush hours only. If it ran more frequently reverse-peak and had off-peak service, you would see a big shift in ridership from the S59 to the S89.

 

Also, unless the S58 ran rush hours only, this would result in an increase in operating costs.