The B4

[NX Express]

There are short-turns on weekdays running from Kingsborough to Sheepshead Bay station only; what you're describing is likely a bus deadheading from the station back to the college.

 

Run-ons and run-offs would be on Emmons Avenue.

 

But why would it be there? That is not near the route needed to go to the college to Sheepshead Bay Station or vice versa!:cool:

[aemoreira81]

Actually, I would probably truncate the B4 to SB station full-time (buses would lay over on East 17 between Jerome and Z)...and branch out the B36 instead into two branches, as follows:

 

B36, regular route as it is now.

B34 (new route, variant of the B36), branches off at Ocean Avenue and follows the current B4 Emmons Avenue segment, using the B44 terminus at Knapp.

 

Branching would be done all times except nights, when all buses would go to Avenue U only. Every third bus would run to Knapp.

 

Under a separate plan, I had the B36 going all the way to Brooklyn College, with the B44 local rerouted to Kings Plaza. For cost neutrality, I would truncate B41 Bergen Beach local trips to Empire Boulevard.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Under a separate plan, I had the B36 going all the way to Brooklyn College, with the B44 local rerouted to Kings Plaza. For cost neutrality, I would truncate B41 Bergen Beach local trips to Empire Boulevard.

 

The B4 should just be put back the way it was. Years ago when Sheepshead Bay was experiencing a sort of revitalization, the B4 was not really busy past the train station, but now with all of the high rise condos and shopping areas and restaurants on Emmons Avenue, not having the B4 full time is just insane, not to mention that there is really nothing down there to replace the network coverage that is lost with the exception of the B44 in some spots. When you consider how long the commute is on the train for people coming from the city to Sheepshedad Bay they should have access to the B4 during all times. I know what the commute is like because I grew up in Sheepshead Bay. Leave the B36 alone too. It's busy enough starting from Avenue U and with all of the projects there along Nostrand Avenue and if anything, they could use more service along the line NOT further expansion. You have all of the high rise buildings near Brighton Beach too that the B36 serves, along with the projects in Coney Island. Also your idea of extending the B4 to the train station is not necessary because one block or so from where the B4 currently terminates is an overhead passage that leads you right to the train station. It's no more than a five minute walk, and something that us Sheepshead Bay residents (past and present) know very well. [i corrected this part of my post further down. Sorry for the confusion!!]

[checkmatechamp13]

I'm not understanding your post. You said that the B4 should be kept in Sheepshead Bay, then you say it isn't necessary to run it to the subway station.

 

In any case, extending the B4 to Sheepshead Bay would barely add any additional travel distance during off-peak hours, since it is roughly the same distance to the subway station (compared with going south to Shore Parkway and then back up). During peak hours, this would actually save the MTA money because of the more direct routing. If giving people a direct transfer to the subway and B49 bus can be done at a minimal cost, why not?

[BrooklynBus]

But why would it be there? That is not near the route needed to go to the college to Sheepshead Bay Station or vice versa!:cool:

 

Correct. That bus could not have been deadheading from the College. I did see another one that was. It was making a turn from E 14 St north to Sheephead Bay Road. That would make sense for a deadhead. Not the turns I saw which looked like a pull-out from Flatbush Depot.

[BrooklynBus]

Under a separate plan, I had the B36 going all the way to Brooklyn College, with the B44 local rerouted to Kings Plaza. For cost neutrality, I would truncate B41 Bergen Beach local trips to Empire Boulevard.

 

But that would cut B41 service between Downtown and Empire Blvd. You need some type of justification to do that other than "cost neutrality."

[FamousNYLover]

When I tested out B4 on Holiday Monday, when it was running on Sunday Schedule, B4 Riders were still confuse.

[BrooklynBus]

Also your idea of extending the B4 to the train station is not necessary because one block or so from where the B4 currently terminates is an overhead passage that leads you right to the train station. It's no more than a five minute walk, and something that us Sheepshead Bay residents (past and present) know very well.

 

This part of your post does not make sense. Which overhead passage are you talking about? The B4 terminates at Coney Island Hospital. It does not even provide a complete transfer to the B68, which is insane by itself. There is no overhead passage near its terminus.

 

Checkmatechamp 13 is correct in his comments.

[BrooklynBus]

When I tested out B4 on Holiday Monday, when it was running on Sunday Schedule, B4 Riders were still confuse.

 

Drivers are supposed to let riders stay on until the terminal stop at Coney Island Hospital and they don't. They tell passengers the last stop is Coney Island Avenue. I informed the MTA of that and they were looking into it to properly instruct drivers. Also the Guide-A-Ride signs are all screwed up. At Avenue Z and Ocean Parkway eastbound after the intersection, service is shown as operating only weekdays with the first bus starting at 1:46 PM which sounds a little to early to me, but the map says that service to Knapp Street operates during rush hours only. No eastbound service is shown although the bus operated to Coney Island Avenue on weekends.

 

At the eastbound stop at Coney Island Avenue, the sign shows weekend service but states the last stop is at Shore Pkway and Ocean Parkway. The map again indicates only rush hour service to Knapp Street, but the first bus should arrive at 1:49 PM if the sign at Ocean Parkway is correct.

 

Any wonder why passengers are confused and ridership is low? Would you wait for a bus when you can't even figure out when it operates and when it only runs every 15 or 20 minutes anyway even during rush hours?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

This part of your post does not make sense. Which overhead passage are you talking about? The B4 terminates at Coney Island Hospital. It does not even provide a complete transfer to the B68, which is insane by itself. There is no overhead passage near its terminus.

 

Checkmatechamp 13 is correct in his comments.

 

I thought I read somewhere that the last stop was Emmons and West End Ave... I just took a look at the new route and it is terrible! I went to school at IS43 across the street from Emmons & West End and from there you can take the overhead passage to the Train Station so that's what I was thinking of and referring to. I say forget all of this rerouting it to the station nonsense and restore the old service at all times to Knapp Street. Residents in the eastern part of Sheepshead Bay really don't have too many options without being hassled and from what I can see, restoring the service would be nothing more than providing essential network coverage to a transit starved area of Southern Brooklyn.

[Shortline Bus]

I thought I read somewhere that the last stop was Emmons and West End Ave... I just took a look at the new route and it is terrible! I went to school at IS43 across the street from Emmons & West End and from there you can take the overhead passage to the Train Station so that's what I was thinking of and referring to. I say forget all of this rerouting it to the station nonsense and restore the old service at all times to Knapp Street. Residents in the eastern part of Sheepshead Bay really don't have too many options without being hassled and from what I can see, restoring the service would be nothing more than providing essential network coverage to a transit starved area of Southern Brooklyn.

 

Being fair, late evening i.e after 10pm every night/early morning ridership on the B4 , Garibaldi on section between Sheapshead Station and Knapp 'tanked' often having zero riders.

 

That why i proposed as a compromise the B4 should be restored to Sheapshead Station on all trips. While similar to the B7 part time service extension to CI Ave. or the BX7 late evenings ending in Washington Heights/Inwood at 207th St station instead of 168th St/Bway, that the B4 be extended to Knapp Street.

 

B4 Knapp Street service

Weekdays 6am-10pm

Saturdays 7am-11pm (to those going to the movie thearte)

Sundays 8am-8pm.

 

All other trips end at the Sheapshead Station.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Being fair, late evening i.e after 10pm every night/early morning ridership on the B4 , Garibaldi on section between Sheapshead Station and Knapp 'tanked' often having zero riders.

 

That why i proposed as a compromise the B4 should be restored to Sheapshead Station on all trips. While similar to the B7 part time service extension to CI Ave. or the BX7 late evenings ending in Washington Heights/Inwood at 207th St station instead of 168th St/Bway, that the B4 be extended to Knapp Street.

 

B4 Knapp Street service

Weekdays 6am-10pm

Saturdays 7am-11pm (to those going to the movie thearte)

Sundays 8am-8pm.

 

All other trips end at the Sheapshead Station.

 

I know what you mean, but at least run service until Midnight weekdays and Saturdays and 11pm on Sundays. We're talking about Brooklyn here, not a suburb! The problem with that line always was reliability. Even back in the 90s when I used it, buses ran about every 15 minutes and I can recall plenty of times when one or two didn't show up, so I'm sure that helped with the service decline in Sheepshead Bay especially, but still that area needs some sort of coverage, so that's why I would proposed the hours that I did. Is it still running out of Ulmer Park or Jackie Gleason or is it still split between the two? It seemed like service was a little better when Jackie Gleason took some of the runs.

[Shortline Bus]

I know what you mean, but at least run service until Midnight weekdays and Saturdays and 11pm on Sundays. We're talking about Brooklyn here, not a suburb! The problem with that line always was reliability. Even back in the 90s when I used it, buses ran about every 15 minutes and I can recall plenty of times when one or two didn't show up, so I'm sure that helped with the service decline in Sheepshead Bay especially, but still that area needs some sort of coverage, so that's why I would proposed the hours that I did. Is it still running out of Ulmer Park or Jackie Gleason or is it still split between the two? It seemed like service was a little better when Jackie Gleason took some of the runs.

 

You mean those hours you proposed for Knapp St service right?

Unless they changed the hours with the June service changes the B4 ran from about 5am-130am 7 days a week.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

You mean those hours you proposed for Knapp St service right?

Unless they changed the hours with the June service changes the B4 ran from about 5am-130am 7 days a week.

 

I think they should restore it to those times then to Knapp St. because you have elderly people too that use the line (albeit it not that late) and long walking distances without the B4. Aside from that with the new condos, restaurants, etc. down on Emmons it could help business thrive even further for the community. It's a great area to walk in down there and when I come back to the old neighborhood via the BM3 to my barber, I often stay down there for a bit to relax and eat and such before getting back on the xbus back to the city.

[Q43LTD]

I know what you mean, but at least run service until Midnight weekdays and Saturdays and 11pm on Sundays. We're talking about Brooklyn here, not a suburb! The problem with that line always was reliability. Even back in the 90s when I used it, buses ran about every 15 minutes and I can recall plenty of times when one or two didn't show up, so I'm sure that helped with the service decline in Sheepshead Bay especially, but still that area needs some sort of coverage, so that's why I would proposed the hours that I did. Is it still running out of Ulmer Park or Jackie Gleason or is it still split between the two? It seemed like service was a little better when Jackie Gleason took some of the runs.

The B4 runs completely out of Gleason. It should've stayed at Ulmer Park

[BrooklynBus]

I thought I read somewhere that the last stop was Emmons and West End Ave... I say forget all of this rerouting it to the station nonsense and restore the old service at all times to Knapp Street. Residents in the eastern part of Sheepshead Bay really don't have too many options without being hassled and from what I can see, restoring the service would be nothing more than providing essential network coverage to a transit starved area of Southern Brooklyn.

 

I fully agree with you, but they can't just do that without everyone else complaining that they want their service back too. People would think some kind of political deal was made. So the strategy is to first get back the service to Sheepshead Bay Station, then we can try to get the rest of it back later.

 

They also need to get the Guide-Ar-Ride signs corrected. You can't start a bus at 1 in the afternoon and tell people it only runs during rush hours. No wonder no one uses it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I fully agree with you, but they can't just do that without everyone else complaining that they want their service back too. People would think some kind of political deal was made. So the strategy is to first get back the service to Sheepshead Bay Station, then we can try to get the rest of it back later.

 

They also need to get the Guide-Ar-Ride signs corrected. You can't start a bus at 1 in the afternoon and tell people it only runs during rush hours. No wonder no one uses it.

 

I would agree with you, but service being cut like that means no network coverage in certain parts of Sheepshead Bay. You're right though, at least try to get it back to Sheepshead Bay Train Station. Then again maybe the MTAs thinking was that passengers needing the train station could just transfer to the B36 around Coney Island Hospital, since the B1, B4 and B36 all meet up together around there, but in some cases you would have to either walk a bit or make another transfer and walk to get to where you need to go.

[Shortline Bus]

I would agree with you, but service being cut like that means no network coverage in certain parts of Sheepshead Bay. You're right though, at least try to get it back to Sheepshead Bay Train Station. Then again maybe the MTAs thinking was that passengers needing the train station could just transfer to the B36 around Coney Island Hospital, since the B1, B4 and B36 all meet up together around there, but in some cases you would have to either walk a bit or make another transfer and walk to get to where you need to go.

 

This is example where the did little or no research on this B4 and relied on the map/fare box data to make this idiotic changes to B4 service.

 

Off topic but related. Guys what about the idea of re-structure the B4 Bay Ridge Terminal and end it at the 86th St/4th Ave station to try to increase ridership with connecting to the S-53, S-79 and S-93 (weekdays only)?

:eek:

[B35 via Church]

This is example where the did little or no research on this B4 and relied on the map/fare box data to make this idiotic changes to B4 service.

 

Off topic but related. Guys what about the idea of re-structure the B4 Bay Ridge Terminal and end it at the 86th St/4th Ave station to try to increase ridership with connecting to the S-53, S-79 and S-93 (weekdays only)?

:eek:

 

- terminal space... even though they're not too frequent, still though, where are you putting the B4?

 

- you may pick up a couple riders every so often, but that's about it... I don't think it would be worth the price of admission to extend B4's to 86th... either you keep it at Narrows av, or truncate it to 3rd/(77th/78th) out in bay ridge....

 

you don't want to compromise the pulling in & out of the SI buses anymore than what they already go through....

 

 

Now what I'm not exactly getting is, how you'd plan on revamping the terminal out there...

[Shortline Bus]

- terminal space... even though they're not too frequent, still though, where are you putting the B4?

 

- you may pick up a couple riders every so often, but that's about it... I don't think it would be worth the price of admission to extend B4's to 86th... either you keep it at Narrows av, or truncate it to 3rd/(77th/78th) out in bay ridge....

 

you don't want to compromise the pulling in & out of the SI buses anymore than what they already go through....

 

 

Now what I'm not exactly getting is, how you'd plan on revamping the terminal out there...

 

For thr 86th/4th Ave terminal simple. I would extend the B1's to end at 86th St/Shore Rd. During weekdays 'short trip B1's' and All B4's would share the existing terminal SE portion of that area.

 

The B4 could take 5th Ave to westbound 87th St and to the current B1 terminal.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

For thr 86th/4th Ave terminal simple. I would extend the B1's to end at 86th St/Shore Rd. During weekdays 'short trip B1's' and All B4's would share the existing terminal SE portion of that area.

 

The B4 could take 5th Ave to westbound 87th St and to the current B1 terminal.

 

Back in the day I used to take the B4 to 77th and would just walk to 86th to take the bus to Staten Island. The R is simply not worth waiting for unless you've got time to kill. Has to be the slowest train in the entire system. With that said, I see no reason not to extend the B4. It's current terminus really doesn't connect to anything special. However, I think you have to make sure that it still serves the area near Shore Road in the 70s as you'd have a huge gap in any sort of network coverage. The B16 turns off on 86th and then you'd have nothing until 71st street in terms of local service near Shore Road.

[B35 via Church]

For thr 86th/4th Ave terminal simple. I would extend the B1's to end at 86th St/Shore Rd. During weekdays 'short trip B1's' and All B4's would share the existing terminal SE portion of that area.

 

The B4 could take 5th Ave to westbound 87th St and to the current B1 terminal.

 

catch 22 situation...

 

if you route the B4 down 5th av, you will definitely steal some riders off the B63... there are a good amt. of people that disembark the @ 86th/5th & take that walk to the ....

 

however...

just read Garibaldi's post for the other end of the paradox....

[BrooklynBus]

There really needs to be a local bus down the entire Shore Road. The B9 is perfect for this. You wouldn't need the B16 on Shore Road. There also would be no need to extend the B1 down Shore Road either. (Shore Rd riders would get direct service to 59 St and wouldn't need to use the R.)

 

If this were done, then the B4 could be routed down 4th Avenue to 86th Street. It wouldn't even need to make any stops along 4th Avenue.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There really needs to be a local bus down the entire Shore Road. The B9 is perfect for this. You wouldn't need the B16 on Shore Road. There also would be no need to extend the B1 down Shore Road either. (Shore Rd riders would get direct service to 59 St and wouldn't need to use the R.)

 

If this were done, then the B4 could be routed down 4th Avenue to 86th Street. It wouldn't even need to make any stops along 4th Avenue.

 

Shore Road is really isolated from the rest of Bay Ridge and that is exactly why the X27 is so important for Bay Ridge residents over there. The trek to the R station is beyond a pain. I just can't understand for the life of me why the X27 and X28 got such low ridership on the weekends when during the week there is such heavy usage. Do Bay Ridge residents not go to the city on the weekends or do they just all drive?

[checkmatechamp13]

They don't necessarily have to walk over to the subway-they can take a crosstown bus (the B4, B16, and B9/B64, depending on where the customer lives), though I do agree that the 15-20 minute headways on the B4 and B16 can make it very difficult.

 

I've wondered why the X27 wasn't well-used on the weekends. The Staten Island express routes have high ridership on weekdays and weekends. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that taking a bus or driving to the train is an alternative to waiting 30 minutes for an express bus. On Staten Island, the express bus is almost always the quickest way to go to Manhattan.