The B4

[Calvin]

Before cuts, B4 terminal is always Knapp St and Narrows Av, but now, the B4 serves Knapp St in rush hours. I was wondering why the B4 cut Kanpp St to rush hours only because during April-May, B4 has lots of ppl on to Knapp St on some weekends and rush hours. Why was the B4 to Knapp St cut to rush hours only?

[NX Express]

Why was the B4 to Knapp St cut to rush hours only?

 

$$$.

That's it.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Kanarsie Guy]

They feel like outside of the rush there is no need for knapp St service.

[B35 via Church]

I happen to agree with the guy....

 

Apparently, Bay ridge riders are more important than Sheepshead bay riders....

With which there are lesser of them (Bay ridge riders on the B4)....

[ItaketheB1]

A little bit off topic but...

 

I was waiting for the B4 to go and see Harry Potter, and I arrived to the bus stop at around 3:40. The schedule said one comes at 3:50, so I waited and it didn't come. The next one was supposed to come 4:05 and it still didn't come, the next one was the 4:20 one...and it didn't arrive. The one that finally arrived was around 4:35 and it was crowded.

 

I missed half the movie B).

[Q43LTD]

Before cuts, B4 terminal is always Knapp St and Narrows Av, but now, the B4 serves Knapp St in rush hours. I was wondering why the B4 cut Kanpp St to rush hours only because during April-May, B4 has lots of ppl on to Knapp St on some weekends and rush hours. Why was the B4 to Knapp St cut to rush hours only?

Let's see:

1. Money

2. The MTA did "research" that the B4 is dead between Coney Island Hospital and Sheepshead Bay.

3. The aforementioned section was parallel to the B36

[Shortline Bus]

Let's see:

1. Money

2. The MTA did "research" that the B4 is dead between Coney Island Hospital and Sheepshead Bay.

3. The aforementioned section was parallel to the B36

 

Still the so called 'research' was a horrible job. At least they should have the (B4) end at the Sheepshead Bay Station since it added only 5 more minutes to the trip and no extra buses. Not to mention B4 riders going to near Knapp Street (I know the B36 closest stop is Nostrand Ave. & Ave. Z) could transfer at the Sheepshead RD station as well.

 

When the fiscal crisis is over, the should restore running the B4 'full time' to Sheepshead Station on all trips. While 'limited' service such as alternative trips are extended to Knapp St. I would propose B4 Knapp Street service be weekdays 6am-10pm Saturdays 8am-10pm and Sundays 9am-8pm.

*Late Evening/Overnight service runs between Sheepshead Station and 3rd Avenue/Bay Ridge Pwy.*

 

On another point, I did not understand why the B4 still serves 77-78th Street between 4th Ave and Narrows Ave? The B4 should terminate either at the 77th Street or 86th Street/4th Avenue station.

 

And Calvin all i can say is call/write the local Political leaders in the Sheepshead area to get help to restore Full Time B4 Sheepshead Service.B)

[Kanarsie Guy]

Still the so called 'research' was a horrible job. At least they should have the (B4) end at the Sheepshead Bay Station since it added only 5 more minutes to the trip and no extra buses. Not to mention B4 riders going to near Knapp Street (I know the B36 closest stop is Nostrand Ave. & Ave. Z) could transfer at the Sheepshead RD station as well.

 

When the fiscal crisis is over, the should restore running the B4 'full time' to Sheepshead Station on all trips. While 'limited' service such as alternative trips are extended to Knapp St. I would propose B4 Knapp Street service be weekdays 6am-10pm Saturdays 8am-10pm and Sundays 9am-8pm.

*Late Evening/Overnight service runs between Sheepshead Station and 3rd Avenue/Bay Ridge Pwy.*

 

On another point, I did not understand why the B4 still serves 77-78th Street between 4th Ave and Narrows Ave? The B4 should terminate either at the 77th Street or 86th Street/4th Avenue station.

 

And Calvin all i can say is call/write the local Political leaders in the Sheepshead area to get help to restore Full Time B4 Sheepshead Service.B)

It should At least go to the Train Station. Right now it stops in the middle of Nowhere

[checkmatechamp13]

Still the so called 'research' was a horrible job. At least they should have the (B4) end at the Sheepshead Bay Station since it added only 5 more minutes to the trip and no extra buses. Not to mention B4 riders going to near Knapp Street (I know the B36 closest stop is Nostrand Ave. & Ave. Z) could transfer at the Sheepshead RD station as well.

 

When the fiscal crisis is over, the should restore running the B4 'full time' to Sheepshead Station on all trips. While 'limited' service such as alternative trips are extended to Knapp St. I would propose B4 Knapp Street service be weekdays 6am-10pm Saturdays 8am-10pm and Sundays 9am-8pm.

*Late Evening/Overnight service runs between Sheepshead Station and 3rd Avenue/Bay Ridge Pwy.*

 

On another point, I did not understand why the B4 still serves 77-78th Street between 4th Ave and Narrows Ave? The B4 should terminate either at the 77th Street or 86th Street/4th Avenue station.

 

And Calvin all i can say is call/write the local Political leaders in the Sheepshead area to get help to restore Full Time B4 Sheepshead Service.B)

 

I don't think the B4 has the headways for limited-stop service.

 

The only "logical" answer as to why the B4 ends at Coney Island Avenue is because the MTA didn't feel that there were a lot of riders transferring to the subway, and that the riders that are transferring can use the B36. Still, going to East 16th Street hardly adds any travel distance, and it offers a transfer to the B49.

 

I would guess that the reaon for the B4 serving 77th/78th Streets has something to do with network coverage. There would be no east-west route between 86th Street and Bay Ridge Avenue if it weren't for the B4. (In Sheepshead Bay, riders along Emmons Avenue still end up over 1/4 mile from a route, so they violated their own guidelines over there)

[B35 via Church]

I don't think the B4 has the headways for limited-stop service.

 

The only "logical" answer as to why the B4 ends at Coney Island Avenue is because the MTA didn't feel that there were a lot of riders transferring to the subway, and that the riders that are transferring can use the B36. Still, going to East 16th Street hardly adds any travel distance, and it offers a transfer to the B49.

 

I would guess that the reaon for the B4 serving 77th/78th Streets has something to do with network coverage. There would be no east-west route between 86th Street and Bay Ridge Avenue if it weren't for the B4. (In Sheepshead Bay, riders along Emmons Avenue still end up over 1/4 mile from a route, so they violated their own guidelines over there)

 

yup... like I said, more importance being shown/given to Bay ridge riders over Sheepshead riders... thanks for reinforcing that point, bro

 

 

...and headways on the B4 have been god-awful for as long as I can recall.... that's probably the last route in SW Brooklyn I'd give LTD's to, even though b/o crawl that route (on purpose IMO)....

[Shortline Bus]

I don't think the B4 has the headways for limited-stop service.

 

The only "logical" answer as to why the B4 ends at Coney Island Avenue is because the MTA didn't feel that there were a lot of riders transferring to the subway, and that the riders that are transferring can use the B36. Still, going to East 16th Street hardly adds any travel distance, and it offers a transfer to the B49.

 

I would guess that the reaon for the B4 serving 77th/78th Streets has something to do with network coverage. There would be no east-west route between 86th Street and Bay Ridge Avenue if it weren't for the B4. (In Sheepshead Bay, riders along Emmons Avenue still end up over 1/4 mile from a route, so they violated their own guidelines over there)

 

Checkmate I was not calling for limited stop aka 'express' service on the B4. I meant a small limited amount of hours per day the B4 runs to/from Knapp Street.:eek:

[INDman]

 

Apparently, Bay ridge riders are more important than Sheepshead bay riders....

 

Bay Ridge has alot of power when it comes to things like this, they really know how to use their political power.

[cotb16]

Bay Ridge has alot of power when it comes to things like this, they really know how to use their political power.

 

Not only does Bay Ridge know how to use their power, but Sheepshead Bay isn't as pro-transit as many expect, just look at their stance on the B44 Select Bus Service as well as congestion pricing among other issues (by car-favored Senator Carl Kruger).

[Shortline Bus]

Not only does Bay Ridge know how to use their power, but Sheepshead Bay isn't as pro-transit as many expect, just look at their stance on the B44 Select Bus Service as well as congestion pricing among other issues (by car-favored Senator Carl Kruger).

 

Very true. Still Bay Ridge led by one of the state's most powerful GOP State Senator in Marty Golden, did lose over the summer in the 'doomsday cuts' the B37 and weekend X27/28 service.

[cotb16]

Very true. Still Bay Ridge led by one of the state's most powerful GOP State Senator in Marty Golden, did lose over the summer in the 'doomsday cuts' the B37 and weekend X27/28 service.

 

And Bay Ridge might get more if GOP gets the State Senate majority.

[checkmatechamp13]

Very true. Still Bay Ridge led by one of the state's most powerful GOP State Senator in Marty Golden, did lose over the summer in the 'doomsday cuts' the B37 and weekend X27/28 service.

 

They were still powerful enough to have the B70 rerouted in their neighborhood. The original plans called for the B37 to be eliminated entirely, with no replacement.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Very true. Still Bay Ridge led by one of the state's most powerful GOP State Senator in Marty Golden, did lose over the summer in the 'doomsday cuts' the B37 and weekend X27/28 service.

 

I am still trying to understand why the X37 & X38 was done away with in favor of having just the X27/X28? I can understand what they did to the weekend service, although I think they could've reduced service to an hour only. For those of you who say well there's the "R" train, try living on Shore Road and you'll see what a pain the "R" train is. First off Shore Road is a good distance from the subway. Second the "R" is terribly slow and the MTA makes absolutely no effort to link it in sink with the "N" express to speed up the commute. As far as weekday service goes when the X37/X38 existed, service on both lines was packed, especially the X37. They used to have one running every few minutes during rush hour.

 

And as far as the B4 goes, yes Sheepshead Bay is not very active with transit. I used to live in that area and still go down there on the BM3 to Emmons Avenue. It seems to me that the MTA did the same thing they did with the X16, which was to drive down ridership with inconsistent, unreliable service. The B4 should be restored at all times for three reasons: First, the B36 is a good distance from the B4 in general and there were a decent amount of elderly people that used the B4 in Sheepshead Bay going towards Knapp Street. Those commuting using the train that live near Knapp Street already have a long enough commute, especially with several stations along the Brighton Line being redone, so having no B4 just makes that commute even longer. Third, with the revitalization of Emmons Avenue and all of the stores and restaurants down there opening up in the past few years, the idea of no weekend service is just unacceptable. I certainly saw more people using the line with the new stores down there than in past years when the area was in the process of revitalizing the Avenue. If they do restore it, they need to do more to ensure that the service is more reliable too, because with headways of 10-15 minutes in many cases, having three buses not show up can easily drive down ridership on any line.

[Shortline Bus]

I am still trying to understand why the X37 & X38 was done away with in favor of having just the X27/X28? I can understand what they did to the weekend service, although I think they could've reduced service to an hour only. For those of you who say well there's the "R" train, try living on Shore Road and you'll see what a pain the "R" train is. First off Shore Road is a good distance from the subway. Second the "R" is terribly slow and the MTA makes absolutely no effort to link it in sink with the "N" express to speed up the commute. As far as weekday service goes when the X37/X38 existed, service on both lines was packed, especially the X37. They used to have one running every few minutes during rush hour.

 

And as far as the B4 goes, yes Sheepshead Bay is not very active with transit. I used to live in that area and still go down there on the BM3 to Emmons Avenue. It seems to me that the MTA did the same thing they did with the X16, which was to drive down ridership with inconsistent, unreliable service. The B4 should be restored at all times for three reasons: First, the B36 is a good distance from the B4 in general and there were a decent amount of elderly people that used the B4 in Sheepshead Bay going towards Knapp Street. Those commuting using the train that live near Knapp Street already have a long enough commute, especially with several stations along the Brighton Line being redone, so having no B4 just makes that commute even longer. Third, with the revitalization of Emmons Avenue and all of the stores and restaurants down there opening up in the past few years, the idea of no weekend service is just unacceptable. I certainly saw more people using the line with the new stores down there than in past years when the area was in the process of revitalizing the Avenue. If they do restore it, they need to do more to ensure that the service is more reliable too, because with headways of 10-15 minutes in many cases, having three buses not show up can easily drive down ridership on any line.

 

Welcome aboard Garibaldi. I agree 100% on your excellent comments on the situation in SW Brooklyn particuarly on the B4 and X27/28.

 

On the X27/28, they should have kept the X37/38 but reduce it to running peak direction for instance from about 6:30-8am and Brooklyn Bound 4:30pm-6pm. I also with you Garibaldi that the X27/28 should have kept hourly Saturday service running from about 7am-8pm. Sunday service on the X27/28sadly however needed to go IMO.

 

On the B4, a compromise could been running service to/from Knapp Street similar to B7 extended service to Coney Island Ave/Kings Highway. The B4 could have ran to/from Knapp Street weekdays and Saturdays 6am-11pm

and Sundays 8am-8pm.

Late Evenings the B4 would run to/from the Sheapshead Bay train station.

Honestly, other than Saturday Nights (*probably from riders going to the movies there), the B4 ridership between Knapp and the Sheapshead Station was close to very empty on most trips after 9pm..

 

Those are the steps the should have done. Instead, politics/political power and money not ridership are the main factors on whether a bus/subway route has service or not by them.:mad:

[BrooklynBus]

Still the so called 'research' was a horrible job. At least they should have the (B4) end at the Sheepshead Bay ( Station since it added only 5 more minutes to the trip and no extra buses. Not to mention B4 riders going to near Knapp Street (I know the B36 closest stop is Nostrand Ave. & Ave. Z) could transfer at the Sheepshead RD station as well.

 

When the fiscal crisis is over, the should restore running the B4 'full time' to Sheepshead Station on all trips. While 'limited' service such as alternative trips are extended to Knapp St. I would propose B4 Knapp Street service be weekdays 6am-10pm Saturdays 8am-10pm and Sundays 9am-8pm.

*Late Evening/Overnight service runs between Sheepshead Station and 3rd Avenue/Bay Ridge Pwy.*

 

(

 

Yes, the MTA research on this was horrible. In fact, their original plan was to terminate the B4 at Coney Island Hospital at all times. In fact, the only reason why Knapp Street service was saved on weekdays from 6AM to 9AM and 2PM to 7PM was because of my research which I shared with them at the hearing. That research showed 25 passengers in one direction and 35 in the other on the day I checked at 2:30 PM on the portion of the route to be discontinued (Ocean Parkway and Neptune.)

 

I've also asked them to reconsider extending the route to Sheepshead Bay Station for a number of reasons.

 

1) Currently when the terminus is at the hospital, you can only transfer to the B68 but not from the B68, since you are not permitted to ride around the loop;

 

2) A terminus at SB Station completes the B68 transfer and adds one to the B49 and the B and Q trains:

 

3) No loop around the hospital would be necessary at any time allowing a straight run on Avenue Z, saving time and money, probably enough to pay for the extension to the Station.

 

4) Currently the loop is time consuming especially during rush hours. I've observed the bus having to wait 3 minutes just to get back into traffic from the newly created bus stop on the service road. It can take ten minutes just to go around the loop during rush hours, at least 5 more than a straight run along Avenue Z. Also, there is an entrance to the hospital on Avenue Z since the completion of the Tower Building, making the loop totally unnecessary.

 

5) The B4 seems to have a 15 to 20 minute layover at the hospital, more than enough time to make the trip to Sheepshead Bay Station.

 

They promised to reconsider it. At minimum, the terminal stop should be at Coney Island Avenue, not at the Hospital to permit a full B68 transfer. I just reminded them that they still owe me a response.

[Shortline Bus]

Yes, the MTA research on this was horrible. In fact, their original plan was to terminate the B4 at Coney Island Hospital at all times. In fact, the only reason why Knapp Street service was saved on weekdays from 6AM to 9AM and 2PM to 7PM was because of my research which I shared with them at the hearing. That research showed 25 passengers in one direction and 35 in the other on the day I checked at 2:30 PM on the portion of the route to be discontinued (Ocean Parkway and Neptune.)

 

I've also asked them to reconsider extending the route to Sheepshead Bay Station for a number of reasons.

 

1) Currently when the terminus is at the hospital, you can only transfer to the B68 but not from the B68, since you are not permitted to ride around the loop;

 

2) A terminus at SB Station completes the B68 transfer and adds one to the B49 and the B and Q trains:

 

3) No loop around the hospital would be necessary at any time allowing a straight run on Avenue Z, saving time and money, probably enough to pay for the extension to the Station.

 

4) Currently the loop is time consuming especially during rush hours. I've observed the bus having to wait 3 minutes just to get back into traffic from the newly created bus stop on the service road. It can take ten minutes just to go around the loop during rush hours, at least 5 more than a straight run along Avenue Z. Also, there is an entrance to the hospital on Avenue Z since the completion of the Tower Building, making the loop totally unnecessary.

 

5) The B4 seems to have a 15 to 20 minute layover at the hospital, more than enough time to make the trip to Sheepshead Bay Station.

 

They promised to reconsider it. At minimum, the terminal stop should be at Coney Island Avenue, not at the Hospital to permit a full B68 transfer. I just reminded them that they still owe me a response.

 

If they restored full time service to at least Sheapshead Station, it would cost little to no $$$ to their opearting budget.:mad:

[BrooklynBus]

If they restored full time service to at least Sheapshead Station, it would cost little to no $$$ to their opearting budget.:mad:

 

That's exactly what I tried to tell convince them of, plus there are several advantages which I mentioned. Let's hope they will listen.

[KNIGHTRIDER3:16]

[checkmatechamp13]

If they restored full time service to at least Sheapshead Station, it would cost little to no $$$ to their opearting budget.:mad:

 

The distance of the route wouldn't even change. From Coney Island Avenue/Avenue Z to East 15th Street/Avenue Z is 0.4 miles. The distance from Avenue Z to the Shore Parkway service road is 0.2 miles (times 2, since it has to go south, then north).

 

Actually, during rush hours, since buses have to go through that loop, moving the terminal to Sheepshead Bay actually saves them money, as buses wuld be able to run straight down Avenue Z.

[BrooklynBus]

The distance of the route wouldn't even change. From Coney Island Avenue/Avenue Z to East 15th Street/Avenue Z is 0.4 miles. The distance from Avenue Z to the Shore Parkway service road is 0.2 miles (times 2, since it has to go south, then north).

 

Actually, during rush hours, since buses have to go through that loop, moving the terminal to Sheepshead Bay actually saves them money, as buses wuld be able to run straight down Avenue Z.

 

Not exactly. the distance around the loop is one-way mileage and the added distance is two-way. But as we both stated the loop would not be necessary when there is through service and it is longer than rush hours, the savings would be for eight hours a day. Besides, the extra distance doesn't even matter if no additional buses would be needed which I believe would be the case because of the long layover at the hospital which doesn't seem necessary. I could see a long layover if the bus traveled through a heavy business district like 86th Street or Avenue J, but Bay Ridge Parkway doesn't really get congested. And there is a lot of traffic along the service road during the rush hours.