Express bus cut talk

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not going to jump into this discussion, but...

 

I take the 5th avenue buses down from Harlem almost daily, and you know what happens? 86th all the black people leave, and the seats are taken by white people. Below 86th, it's all white. Literally, all white. Now, I understand what you're saying about behavior, but the 5th avenue route is one that suffers a horrible lack of diversity -- I would refrain from using it as an example, as frankly you could very much argue the diversity of it looks quite a bit like the diversity of an express bus...

 

And really,

 

 

 

Are you kidding me? This from the man who said I don't want to have a fight here, but if you're really going to argue that you simply prefer express buses because you think they're more civilized, you gotta look at your choice of words in this discussion.

 

If you're going to quote me, why don't you put up the entire quote and not part of it? It makes me think that you only read what you wanted to hear...

 

And about the Madison/5th Ave buses, that is simply not true. The majority are white, yes, but I see plenty of minorities on it and I get on at 15th street usually and go up to 43rd. Now I never ride past 86th street, but still. It's the same thing going down 5th as well.

[Forest Glen]

 

Unless you're talking about these routes during off peak hours I have to disagree with you. The FDR can be a major pain in the ass. I know because I've used the X14 for years before it started stopping Downtown.

 

See folks, even allies can have disagreements. It's not like he's my puppet. The FDR is sluggish, but traffic moves. It's not like it's at a standstill like the Cross Bronx. And the vast majority of cars on the FDR are heading to the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

 

The Holland Tunnel coming home especially is usually pretty slow unless it's a time when everyone has left town. After that it can be fast if the B/O knows how to drive... Otherwise it can be a good 40 minutes... To be honest, I always give myself a good additional 20-30 for traffic because there usually is always something.

Going via New Jersey in the morning is usually faster, so much so that I can get to my office in an hour. Going home via NJ is usually an hour and a half.

 

I can't think of any NYC express bus route that uses the Holland Tunnel. You must be talking about NJ Transit.

 

Now off peak hours can be great, but I'm also aware of when I should give myself more time even then. The X1 and X10 can be dreadfully slow on Saturday mornings taking the Gowanus so I always give myself at least an extra half an hour just in case depending on where I have to be.

 

I'm not disputing that. I've used both routes. The X1 makes a million stops on Hylan Blvd. However, it's among the busiest express bus routes. Someone has to do the dirty work. The X10 ends in a crappy neighborhood (which disproves the myth about express bus riders being elitist).

 

I can't talk about the X63 because I haven't used it. I've only used the X68 and the QM1A.

 

It's the same basic principle. LIE/Midtown Tunnel AM, Queenboro Bridge/Queens Blvd PM.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[B35 via Church]

I actually don't hesitate to ride the majority of local buses in Manhattan, especially Madison Ave/5 Ave lines even when they're a bit crowded because the people are usually civilized. However some local buses particularly in the outer boroughs are just ridiculous. They act like sub humans, and they have no class what so ever, so that's where FG is coming from and I agree with him. That's why I generally take car service to the express on Staten Island when my normal express bus stops running.

 

 

It's not about being elitist, it's about class. Most express bus riders are decent middle class folks and we just want a nice quiet ride to and from our destination without any riff raff.

 

Now if you want to sit here and deny that some local lines are like a jungle then that's fine, but you and I know that would be a lie. As with everything there are exceptions to every rule. There are plenty of local bus riders that DO have class and carry themselves in a decent way, just like you have some savage like express bus riders.

 

With regards to disdain for express bus riders, believe me, some local bus riders hate express bus riders. I have heard comments mumbled from local bus riders like "Oh, he can't take the local bus. He takes the express bus". Note that I said mumbled because they knew not to even approach me... I see how they look at us on the bus when the express bus pulls in... Nothing but disdain and jealousy because they wish they could be riding it, but they can't because they can't afford it. People always want what they can't have...

 

Not once did I imply or say local lines aren't crowded... aren't slow... aren't filled w/ an eclectic mix of "types" of people (and by types, I aint referring to race either).....

 

I'm sure there are non-express bus riders that think, or may say something to the effect in your example.... but I'm not buyin that's the majority of local bus riders.... again, the average commuter doesn't care about routes they don't take... Since Canarsie seems to be the "hot spot" of conversation as of late, I'll use that as an example... I highly doubt B103 riders are standing @ the junction in envy of people that are waiting for the BM2....

 

You say people always wan't what they can't have....

Yeah, and people know what they can't afford, either... only a hater would stand there & envy what mode of transportation the next man/woman is embarking on.... which is a direct reflection of hating on how muck bank (money) that/those same people are holdin.....

 

You have me mistaken if you think I'm saying there are NO express bus haters whatsoever.... this seems to be the basis of your two posts in this thread in defense of our friend Forest Glen here.....

 

Sometimes I think people here think the general public are as savvy/ as (bus/train buffs) are we are in this transit community... and it shows in some posts on here.....

 

My gripe with the guy on this issue isn't what he says about what goes on on local buses... it's how he constantly juxtaposes them with express buses... that's what I meant when I said "don't shit on the next man to boost yourself up"... you can have a preference of expresses over locals, without straight up trashing the locals....

 

quite frankly, I think there are more express bus riders that frown upon local buses & the riders w/i them... as opposed to the opposite scenario to that... But I don't sit & focus on that....

I mean, having been on as many express routes & local routes in this city, I can objectively, and w/o bias, weigh the pros & cons of the two, and then come to a decision of what I think about each type of mode of transportation....

 

this guy lets his emotions/feelings override any type of objectiveness....

and I wish he gets out of that.... Makes it too easy to shut down his arguments.

 

 

and lol @ him avoiding my counterarguments, which is another thing he does.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm not pulling apart your words, I'm just taking a look at what you said. If you stand by them, then that's your choice.

 

I honestly wish the buses were more diverse. But frankly, they aren't. I take that bus (when working) every day, downtown. The diversity of that bus is just gone by 86th street. I wish that weren't true, as I really like the B/Os on that route and the route itself, but unfortunately it is. Maybe you've had a different experience, but that is what I consistently see.

 

I go to Whole Foods and other restaurants around Union Square and the Chelsea area regularly and to be honest, many of the people riding are tourists from all over going down 5th Avenue from Midtown, especially after the morning runs. Now I sometimes take the M2 around 1 or 2pm at 15th street going back to Midtown, and usually there are more blacks than anything getting on there, so maybe it's the time that you get the buses? But in any event why is it such a big deal that it's majority white when you take them? It's interesting because when I take them they're mixed... Sometimes mainly black, sometimes a mix, sometimes mainly white. Doesn't bother me either way because the bus is generally quiet and civilized.

[B35 via Church]

I take the 5th avenue buses down from Harlem almost daily, and you know what happens? 86th all the black people leave, and the seats are taken by white people. Below 86th, it's all white. Literally, all white. Now, I understand what you're saying about behavior, but the 5th avenue route is one that suffers a horrible lack of diversity -- I would refrain from using it as an example, as frankly you could very much argue the diversity of it looks quite a bit like the diversity of an express bus...

 

I also notice that....

[Q43LTD]

I've been on that x17J numerous times, there's a good way of delays on that Lincoln Tunnel, but I'd have to agree with him on that point, the x17J is also a hit & miss, you either get stuck in the tunnel and fly the rest of the way or get stuck in the tunnel along with portions of the turnpike, then fly. The last 2 times I rode it, it was definitely a hit and miss. I was pretty much crawling in the tunnel then hauled ass the rest of the way, the other occasion, crawled through portions of the turnpike, then we flew all the way into the NWK Airport and through the bridge. But as always, it depends on the day, and the time of day...

 

The x42 would get stuck in traffic just as much as the other S.I and Brooklyn express routes do, so I dont really see that as being better than any of the others, I'm assuming its because its a "via F D R" route.... The gowanus would strangle any route that goes along that in terrible traffic, that x42 is no exception.... I might be mistaken but doesnt that line go via the Staten Island expressway as well? That too gets beaten into an oblivion at times with traffic...

 

The x63, dont know too much about it, all I know that it has an exit I think at Linden Blvd on the Van Wyck, I might be confusing it with another route but yeah. Queens Blvd is a pretty nice fly through and its trouble at times, but the Van Wyck is the main issue of the line. I can say that I've witnessed them Queens Village express routes fly through Queens Blvd. It's the L.I.E and the Van Wyck that would be the trouble spots....

 

As a matter of fact, I dont think the x63 even goes through the L.I.E at all. But Queens Blvd does have its bad times...

The (X63) does use the LIE. Manahattan bound only from Queens Blvd to the tunnel. It also gets off the Van Wyck at Linden Blvd

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not once did I imply or say local lines aren't crowded... aren't slow... aren't filled w/ an eclectic mix of "types" of people (and by types, I aint referring to race either).....

 

I'm sure there are non-express bus riders that think, or may say something to the effect in your example.... but I'm not buyin that's the majority of local bus riders.... again, the average commuter doesn't care about routes they don't take... Since Canarsie seems to be the "hot spot" of conversation as of late, I'll use that as an example... I highly doubt B103 riders are standing @ the junction in envy of people that are waiting for the BM2....

 

You say people always wan't what they can't have....

Yeah, and people know what they can't afford, either... only a hater would stand there & envy what mode of transportation the next man/woman is embarking on.... which is a direct reflection of hating on how muck bank (money) that/those same people are holdin.....

 

You have me mistaken if you think I'm saying there are NO express bus haters whatsoever.... this seems to be the basis of your two posts in this thread in defense of our friend Forest Glen here.....

 

Sometimes I think people here think the general public are as savvy/ as (bus/train buffs) are we are in this transit community... and it shows in some posts on here.....

 

My gripe with the guy on this issue isn't what he says about what goes on on local buses... it's how he constantly juxtaposes them with express buses... that's what I meant when I said "don't shit on the next man to boost yourself up"... you can have a preference of expresses over locals, without straight up trashing the locals....

 

quite frankly, I think there are more express bus riders that frown upon local buses & the riders w/i them... as opposed to the opposite scenario to that... But I don't sit & focus on that....

I mean, having been on as many express routes & local routes in this city, I can objectively, and w/o bias, weigh the pros & cons of the two, and then come to a decision of what I think about each type of mode of transportation....

 

this guy lets his emotions/feelings override any type of objectiveness....

and I wish he gets out of that.... Makes it too easy to shut down his arguments.

 

 

and lol @ him avoiding my counterarguments, which is another thing he does.

 

The disdain from express bus riders usually stems from them wanting to keep the express bus nice in terms of riff raff. I will admit that when I see non-regulars get on I get quite pissed because they usually come on and try their best to break up the seats and play with the lights as if they've never seen overhead lights before or make a shit load of noise because they're not used to quiet situations. Then again, I frown just the same on the local bus too when I see some thug or uncivilized person acting the part near me.

 

Yesterday I'm standing on the S53 with my Whole Foods bags and out of no where this young Asian couple came and banged right into me (not once but several times at once) with their Whole Foods bag as if I wasn't there... No excuse me, no nothing. Before I realized it I whirled around and said out loud "What the **** is going on here!!?!" and they were apologizing profusely, but it's like what ever happened to manners? That's what I'm talking about. It's not an elitest thing. It's about acting with decency and respect for others, which I think is seen moreso on express buses than on some local buses, especially on Staten Island. This of course can vary on other local buses. I also will admit that some express bus riders are snobs, but you can find that everywhere, even on some local lines or the subway.

[Forest Glen]

MHV9218

 

Look, my problem with argument was NOT about the 5th ave. buses. Regarding the 5th ave. routes:

 

My point was that 95% of the time when I take the bus to the areas you're describing, the bus is anything but diverse. I pointed out that very much resembles the diversity of many express buses, and I left the point at that.

 

If you're getting on the bus and it's more diverse, then we have hope yet! I take that bus all the time and that always disappoints me, the lack of diversity. But if you're seeing a more diverse bus, then I believe you, and that's definitely a good thing....

 

 

The X63 is about 90% black/West Indian.

 

Try again.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Look, my problem with argument was NOT about the 5th ave. buses. Regarding the 5th ave. routes:

 

My point was that 95% of the time when I take the bus to the areas you're describing, the bus is anything but diverse. I pointed out that very much resembles the diversity of many express buses, and I left the point at that.

 

If you're getting on the bus and it's more diverse, then we have hope yet! :cool: I take that bus all the time and that always disappoints me, the lack of diversity. But if you're seeing a more diverse bus, then I believe you, and that's definitely a good thing. /closed

 

When it is majority white I'm not shocked or anything... I mean when I'm going up Madison on the X14 for example and I see a local, yes it is majority white, but those are all people that live in the area, so I don't see why that's such a shocker. If it were majority blacks living there I'd expect the same thing. Heck my boss and her husband use the 5th Ave/Madison Ave lines to get to their place in the 70s and they're white. And this is coming from a guy who is mixed... :cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The X63 is about 90% black/West Indian.

 

Try again.

 

And I believe the time I took the X68 it was the same thing.... There are blacks that ride the express bus. The BM2 in Brooklyn is mainly black also and the X30 before the recession had a decent amount of blacks riding. That's less so now though.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[B35 via Church]

And I believe the time I took the X68 it was the same thing.... There are blacks that ride the express bus. The BM2 in Brooklyn is mainly black also and the X30 before the recession had a decent amount of blacks riding. That's less so now though.

 

yeah, riders on the x63, 64, and 68 are dominantly black riders (although the 68 has a good arab crowd).....

It's a direct correlation to the areas those routes travel through, obviously....

 

What you say about the x30, I agree with... out of every SI express, I'd say the most AA riders use that route (the x12/42 is probably second).... I don't know if they ever were the majority on the x30 though... I'll take your word for it....

 

 

....and this probably doesn't mean much of anything, but the most amt of asians I've ever seen on an express bus, was on the (now discontinued) x51.... there be some on the qm2 & 2a also....

Hispanics, I can't think of an express route where they have any significant population on....

 

The fact that most express routes are dominated by whites doesn't mean anything to me...

I can't complain.... I know going in that it's to be expected.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The x1, x2, x3, x4, x5, x6, x7, x8, x9, x10, x11, x12, x14, x15, x17, x19, x22, x23, x24, x27, x28, x30, x31, x63...???

 

I can go on. One route does not prove that express buses are at all diverse.

 

 

X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X7, X8, X9, X17, X19, X22, X23, X24, X27, X28 all start in predominantly white neighborhoods, so yeah, I would expect to see whites riding, although I do see a black riding occasionally.

 

X28 has some Asians because some Asians are moving in those areas, but is mainly white.

 

When I get on and off the X30, it's usally only whites, but again the part of West Brighton I live in is mainly white... The X30 finishes picking up in Mariners Harbor and before the recession many blacks would get on. Now it's more white and non blacks, but it is well known that more blacks are unemployed now with the recession due to whites, so that would make sense.

 

X10 ends in Port Richmond (black and Mexican mainly, with some whites), but goes through mainly white areas, so there's a mix of people... Sometimes Mexicans are riding as well as blacks and other latinos...

 

X11 is usually white since it ends in Travis.

 

X12 finishes in Mariners Harbor but drops off and picks up in white areas, so when I get on and get off in Castleton Corners usually whites follow since mainly whites live there, but there are blacks riding.

 

X17 also has some blacks up near Bulls Head... or when it stops near Mariners Harbor on the service road.

 

In sum, you can't expect a certain group of people to get on a bus if the majority living in an area isn't that particular group of people.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Forest Glen]

Generally, the routes in Northeast Queens (QM2/A) and the south shore (X22) are the whitest. Routes in the central and northern Bronx (BxM6, BxM7, BxM11), southeast Brooklyn (BM2), and southeast Queens (X63,X64,QM21), and the north shore of Staten Island (X10) all have significant black or Hispanic ridership. This disproves the myth of express buses only being for rich white people who work on Wall Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Generally, the routes in Northeast Queens (QM2/A) and the south shore (X22) are the whitest. Routes in the central and northern Bronx (BxM6, BxM7, BxM11), southeast Brooklyn (BM2), and southeast Queens (X63,X64,QM21), and the north shore of Staten Island (X10) all have significant black or Hispanic ridership. This disproves the myth of express buses only being for rich white people who work on Wall Street.

 

 

I see lots of blacks getting off of the QM21... And very true about the X10...

 

The BM3 also gets some blacks, not a lot, but they usually get off or on at Church Ave. Whites usually get on where I get on down in Sheepshead Bay.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I think we can just say express buses aren't as diverse as local buses, generally. That wasn't my point nor was it my intention to get to that point, but I think we can leave it there.

 

 

Clearly you don't feel very comfortable around majority white if you get disappointed when a bus fills up below 86th street and it's mainly white.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Nope, buddy. You're pretty far off base here. It's almost laughable hearing this analysis, you not knowing who I am... Goes to show how making accusations over the internet would look absolutely hilarious in real life.

 

My disappointment in that lack of diversity is the fact that even in 2010, we don't have an equal number of blacks and whites on board the bus. Nothing more.

 

You never know, maybe I'm a reverse-racist? Maybe a nazi too? Let's keep the accusations flying, and just marvel how stupid they'd look in real life.

 

I mean are you as disappointed when the whites get off at 86th and 96th st going Uptown, and it is majority black??

 

And no I don't think you're racist... Just trying to understand where you're coming from.

[B35 via Church]

hell, since the primary discussion shifted a bit...

 

This is just from my observations.... just throwin this out there....

It isn't meant to illustrate no side point, no hidden point, or nothin like that.....

 

 

BxM1/2... mostly white

BxM3.... mix of b&w, mostly white though; 65/35 I'd say

BxM6... this is probably the most diverse express route in our system...

BxM7... mostly black

BxM7a.. mostly white

BxM9.. mostly white

BxM10... 50/50 b&w

BxM11... mostly black

BxM18... mostly white

 

BM1.. mix of b&w, same deal as the BxM3, I'd say

BM2.. mostly black

BM3.. mostly white

BM4.. no one (kidding, it's mostly white)

BM5.. mostly black

 

QM1 (and all the other variants)... mostly white

QM2... mostly white

QM2a... mostly white (more of an asian crowd over the qm2)

QM3... the 6 people that take this, are white

QM4.. mostly white

QM10/11.. mix of b&w; mostly white @ times

QM12... mostly white

QM15... mostly white

QM16... mostly white

QM17... mostly black

QM18... ? (haven't been on this in years)

QM21... mostly black

QM24/25... mostly white

[Cait Sith]

QM18... ? (haven't been on this in years)

 

West Indians, blacks, whites and hispanics, the most diverse exp bus line in my view. I used to live near that bloody line and they are extending it further down. The x51 was similar.

 

Not for nothing but when the hell did this turn into a topic about what racial background rides buses...???? Is this a way to turn what was the discussion of what line gets into traffic and whats needed into something completely different to avoid the fact that some of us actually proved that several points were right to begin with?!?!!?

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[B35 via Church]

West Indians, blacks, whites and hispanics, the most diverse exp bus line in my view. I used to live near that bloody line and they are extending it further down.

 

Not for nothing but when the hell did this turn into a topic about what racial background rides buses...????

 

When MHV joined the discussion.... kinda glad he did too....

Got tired of shutting down one person's exaggerating claims....