Express bus cut talk

[Forest Glen]

Not that it makes a difference, but I hope you understand I have never said ALL express bus service should be axed. There's certainly room for cuts here and there before an outright service ax for under used lines.

 

Cuts are bad enough for local bus riders. Why should we riders take the brunt of the hits? If anything express bus routes should charge a little extra to cover the real costs per rider numbers. Either that or they should cut some runs and merge them to make buses more utilized. That's not asking for much in what's still a recession.

 

The BM4 is high on my list of routes that should be cut back or axed. The other routes in other boroughs, I dunno much about, and won't make comments about.

 

You're not the mystery guy I was referring to. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

Nope, no need to cry about buses...

 

I'll admit the MCI's do provide a uniformed fleet although at the time I still say the remaining 40 foot suburbans could have been reactivated for express service. Well, this is a moot point now since the MCI's now dominate the streets.

 

Neither the QM21 nor the X64 need MCI's. In fact, at least 1/3 of the express bus routes could survive without MCI's. Again, I'm an express bus supporter but I don't blindly support every express bus route. If a particular run has 6 people on it then it should be cut.

[jimbob60]

You're not the mystery guy I was referring to. Sorry to disappoint you.

 

 

 

Neither the QM21 nor the X64 need MCI's. In fact, at least 1/3 of the express bus routes could survive without MCI's. Again, I'm an express bus supporter but I don't blindly support every express bus route. If a particular run has 6 people on it then it should be cut.

 

Wholeheartedly agree with the last line. I see PM rush hour MCI"S that come over the 59th St bridge (Ed Koch Bridge, whatever) with fewer than 10 people. I rode the QM12 AM rush hours 30 years ago from Forest Hills for a summer job I had on East 34th St. It was a quick commute in the morning and many buses were SRO. Now, very few seem to ride the QM12 and other express routes. The elimination of 2 fare zones when metrocards were introduced made express routes relatively more expensive. The MTA needs to constantly monitor ridership and cut service where it is no longer needed just as they increase service where it is needed. The X1 can make the cut and see increased service. The QM12 seems to have had its day. I don't care who is paying for it but an MCI operating with fewer than 10 people at 5:30 in the evening is a waste.

[LRG]

Okay, I managed to find the changes to the X27/X28 that are supposed to happen probably on January 3rd when the new pick goes into effect (pages 77-83).

[checkmatechamp13]

No need to be argue about something that I'm agreeing with, because yes, there are plenty of kids that fare beat, but they aren't the only ones. At least you're acknowledging that. But I will say this... I'm sure it's those same "students" that grow up to be adults that do the same BS. Since the MTA doesn't push the issue, I see more and more students and adults doing this and for now it's just pocket change, but the more people you have using the system and doing this, the more of a problem this will be and the more money they'll lose from it. It's just common sense. The fares keep going up, and population growth continues here, not to mention the current recession.

 

But as the population grows, so will the ridership of the bus routes, which should negate some of the farebeating.

 

Don't feel like quoting right now, so I'll reply to what I've read in the latter pages, in summary form:

 

 

- Joel will stop at nothin to slander that S89...

 

- I can't find it in myself to say "local/express riders get hurt more when local/express buses get cut".... I'm not on one side of the extreme over the other, b/c I take both services at an almost equal rate (commuting-wise; I'm not even talkin regarding busfanning right now)...

 

- whether kids or adults farebeat "more", is a moot point... I don't get the basis behind that whole argument...

hell, if I got jacked by a kid for $200, or an adult for $200, guess what.. I'm still walkin home w/ $200 less in my pocket....

 

- Why does it have to come down to "If all express buses were eliminated"....

 

If we were to answer that question, it'd make it look like we support that they all should get eliminated... which again, we aint on that notion here.... and furthermore, let's not all of a sudden act like no one has advocated for certain local bus services to get cut...

 

You could argue that children are less likely to have a source of income that they can use to pay the fare (and, if they are students, they should be getting free rides anyway).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Did we ever say cut them all?

NO, we just said to cut waste, which is rampant. Why run routes that nobody uses? Run popular routes.

 

PS If you hate buses so much, you can always move, no?

 

 

You don't need to say cut all of them because if they keep cutting, there will be nothing left to cut.

 

Second, I never said I hated buses... Not sure what you're reading.

 

Quite frankly, what annoys me is everyone talking about cutting services (be it local or express) instead of the waste within management and no one seems to want to admit to it. It's the same attitude the MTA has... "Tighten the belt" by not replacing B/Os when they call out sick... That's not my idea of being more fiscally responsible when it's the passengers that are suffering because of that missing bus (be it local or express).

 

 

If anything we should be talking about expanding services and trying to study why certain routes have declined and how they can be beefed up to AVOID elimination. Fare beating is causing the MTA roughly $8 million a year and everyone sits here and makes excuses as why that WASTE is OK???? I don't care if it's students or adults... THEY SHOULD ALL PAY PERIOD, just like the rest of us. Hey I was a student too and guess what? When I had a half fare pass, my parents made sure I had money to pay and if you can't pay well then stay home.

 

That $8 million a year could help keep a local bus route running, or add buses to a crowded line...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But as the population grows, so will the ridership of the bus routes, which should negate some of the farebeating.

 

 

 

You could argue that children are less likely to have a source of income that they can use to pay the fare (and, if they are students, they should be getting free rides anyway).

 

I got news for you... Those students have something called parents don't they???? If they were so smart in having them let them pay their fare. Those student Metrocards aren't free you know.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wholeheartedly agree with the last line. I see PM rush hour MCI"S that come over the 59th St bridge (Ed Koch Bridge, whatever) with fewer than 10 people. I rode the QM12 AM rush hours 30 years ago from Forest Hills for a summer job I had on East 34th St. It was a quick commute in the morning and many buses were SRO. Now, very few seem to ride the QM12 and other express routes. The elimination of 2 fare zones when metrocards were introduced made express routes relatively more expensive. The MTA needs to constantly monitor ridership and cut service where it is no longer needed just as they increase service where it is needed. The X1 can make the cut and see increased service. The QM12 seems to have had its day. I don't care who is paying for it but an MCI operating with fewer than 10 people at 5:30 in the evening is a waste.

 

People buy houses based on the transportation services in an area so before anything is cut all efforts should be made to see how service can be improved in that more people are riding.

[NX Express]

You don't need to say cut all of them because if they keep cutting, there will be nothing left to cut.

 

Second, I never said I hated buses... Not sure what you're reading.

First part: Do you seriously think that the MTA would go around cutting the X1 or X17? They only cut LOW RIDERSHIP ROUTES. How many of those do you think they are? Also, if one bus gets but, logic says those passengers will go to another bus, if nearby.

 

Second Part: Perhaps I said it wrong. You keep saying how the MTA is cutting this, cutting that, and leaving people stranded. But who's preventing those people from moving somewhere else?

 

@ Management part of your answer: Agreed

@ Farebeating part: IMO it would cost more than $8 million to stop farebeating 100%.

 

P.S. Please try to not triple-post. It's a little difficult to read.:cool:

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Okay, I managed to find the changes to the X27/X28 that are supposed to happen probably on January 3rd when the new pick goes into effect (pages 77-83).

 

They should just restore the X37/X38 and have the X27/28 like they did before and reduce any X27/28s or X37/38s that are empty. Running like an X10B will not cut down commuting time that much. In fact it may increase it. I know exactly what these guys go through having used express lines that take Trinity in the AM. It is a nightmare. The FDR offers the quickest way for Midtown folks because it skips Downtown completely.

[B35 via Church]

The excess of management within the MTA should be (what's a more fierce word for cut...) butchered, long before any mode of transportation should....

 

keyword is... "should"...

 

I mean, you can check out the transit career section of this forum to find some names & salaries who hold certain levels of supervision/management positions that shouldn't even exist.... matter fact, I think there was a story done a couple months ago on high salaried persons w/i the MTA, and the perks they recieve (like having their housing paid for, TWO company cars... now that I mention that, I remember that story on fox5), while just milking the system, when the riding public had to prepare themselves for the upcoming cuts back in June.....

 

FWIW, if push came to shove, who/what do you really think is gonna happen first:

The firing of someone in upper mgmt... or the cuts of the actual service the agency provides....

 

Should come as a no-brainer, especially in our society....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The excess of management within the MTA should be (what's a more fierce word for cut...) butchered, long before any mode of transportation should....

 

keyword is... "should"...

 

I mean, you can check out the transit career section of this forum to find some names & salaries who hold certain levels of supervision/management positions that shouldn't even exist.... matter fact, I think there was a story done a couple months ago on high salaried persons w/i the MTA, and the perks they recieve (like having their housing paid for, TWO company cars... now that I mention that, I remember that story on fox5), while just milking the system, when the riding public had to prepare themselves for the upcoming cuts back in June.....

 

FWIW, if push came to shove, who/what do you really think is gonna happen first:

The firing of someone in upper mgmt... or the cuts of the actual service the agency provides....

 

Should come as a no-brainer, especially in our society....

 

And that's the whole pathetic part....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First part: Do you seriously think that the MTA would go around cutting the X1 or X17? They only cut LOW RIDERSHIP ROUTES. How many of those do you think they are? Also, if one bus gets but, logic says those passengers will go to another bus, if nearby.

 

Second Part: Perhaps I said it wrong. You keep saying how the MTA is cutting this, cutting that, and leaving people stranded. But who's preventing those people from moving somewhere else?

 

@ Management part of your answer: Agreed

@ Farebeating part: IMO it would cost more than $8 million to stop farebeating 100%.

 

P.S. Please try to not triple-post. It's a little difficult to read.:cool:

 

They did cut the X1 more than what they have currently listed and people threw a fit, so they backed down a bit. The way I see it, the MTA sees the X1 as their worse nightmare and they're doing everything possible to scale it down before it spirals out of control. I was shocked to see that there is only one X1 per hour during the weekdays via Manhattan after 17:00. Meanwhile the X10 still runs every half an hour up until 18:30... And the 18:30 X1 I took yesterday had almost every seat filled despite the storm, so I wonder if any of them are SRO...

 

Oh and you think people just want to up and move after they've put down roots in a house or a condo? And even if they do, it's not always so easy (i.e. recession).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But as the population grows, so will the ridership of the bus routes, which should negate some of the farebeating.

 

 

You could argue that children are less likely to have a source of income that they can use to pay the fare (and, if they are students, they should be getting free rides anyway).

 

If anything, less enforcement will just embolden fare beaters even more. Now, they just get on, tell the driver they don't have any change and march and sit down as if they're entitled to ride for free because they gots no change, while the rest of us suckers pay. Utterly ridiculous. :tdown:

[Shortline Bus]

They should just restore the X37/X38 and have the X27/28 like they did before and reduce any X27/28s or X37/38s that are empty. Running like an X10B will not cut down commuting time that much. In fact it may increase it. I know exactly what these guys go through having used express lines that take Trinity in the AM. It is a nightmare. The FDR offers the quickest way for Midtown folks because it skips Downtown completely.

 

 

Not to beat a 'dead horse' but i agree my friend. The should have kept the X37/38 but reduced service hours. They could have ran the X-37/38 Manhattan Bound from 6am-8am and Brooklyn Bound 4pm-630pm.

Not to mention Saturday service on the X27/28 but can Sunday service.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Not to beat a 'dead horse' but i agree my friend. The should have kept the X37/38 but reduced service hours. They could have ran the X-37/38 Manhattan Bound from 6am-8am and Brooklyn Bound 4pm-630pm.

Not to mention Saturday service on the X27/28 but can Sunday service.

 

If you saw the report that LRG put up, its clear that passengers want that, yet the MTA refuses to hear it and instead they're running this stupid X27B/X28B nonsense. You're telling me that they can't save the 500k that they currently are saving without restoring that set up with some minor adjustments in terms of the frequency and time lines?

 

 

What they could also do is have the X27/28 layover at 23rd street, but start at 14th street. I mean quite frankly if you're at 23rd st. you'd prefer the X37/X38 for obvious reasons.

[B35 via Church]

If you saw the report that LRG put up, its clear that passengers want that, yet the MTA refuses to hear it and instead they're running this stupid X27B/X28B nonsense. You're telling me that they can't save the 500k that they currently are saving without restoring that set up with some minor adjustments in terms of the frequency and time lines?

 

he means, dead horse, as far as our talks on here about the 27/28/37/38 are concerned, not as far as the MTA's concerned...

 

anyway, I still have yet to hear a convincing reason as to why the x27b/28b is warranted....

and yes, it's VERY clear that South Brooklyn wants that x37/38 back....

 

I know how the 28 runs in the late pm hrs like the back of my hand... I wanna see how they're gonna filter this little diversion into the core schedule, further tarnishing/botching up its service (and headways)....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

he means, dead horse, as far as our talks on here about the 27/28/37/38 are concerned, not as far as the MTA's concerned...

 

anyway, I still have yet to hear a convincing reason as to why the x27b/28b is warranted....

and yes, it's VERY clear that South Brooklyn wants that x37/38 back....

 

I know how the 28 runs in the late pm hrs like the back of my hand... I wanna see how they're gonna filter this little diversion into the core schedule, further tarnishing/botching up its service (and headways)....

 

Let's remember how the X27/X28 started... The subway issues started the whole express bus deal over there. The MTA agreed that they'd give Southwest Brooklyn express bus service for that time. Once they dealt with the subway issues down there they wanted to pull all express bus service down there. Residents refused and then they backed off, but leave it to the MTA to look for a way to get their way. This whole debacle of getting rid of the X37/X38 is just their way of trying to kill the lines. I've seen how dead the

X27/X28s are going to Midtown during the AM rush after the Downtown stop... It's like night and day from last year. I agree... I will be monitoring this situation very closely.

 

Their attitude is they can take the train, but they have not linked the N and R lines for years, which I just don't get and then they want to kill the express bus. You can get off an N train at 59th in Brooklyn and wait 20 minutes before an R comes... At least in the old days anyway. I doubt this has changed very much. So in sum, they're telling these riders that they don't need a quick route to Manhattan, period.

 

Very similar situation with the X16... They cut the X16 because they argued that we can just take the local bus to the ferry, but the local bus/limited stop bus rarely meets up with the ferry as it should, nor is it reliable. That makes it very hard to justify cutting the X16 and that's why people like myself were so pissed. The one difference here is the MTA knows that Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights residents have more power so it won't be so easy for them to kill the X27/X28 the way they did with the X16.

[checkmatechamp13]

I got news for you... Those students have something called parents don't they???? If they were so smart in having them let them pay their fare. Those student Metrocards aren't free you know.

 

One of the concepts of a public education is that it should be open to everybody-regardless of how much money a student (or in this case, their family) has. If they can't afford to pay the fare, they still need a way to get to school.

 

They did cut the X1 more than what they have currently listed and people threw a fit, so they backed down a bit. The way I see it, the MTA sees the X1 as their worse nightmare and they're doing everything possible to scale it down before it spirals out of control. I was shocked to see that there is only one X1 per hour during the weekdays via Manhattan after 17:00. Meanwhile the X10 still runs every half an hour up until 18:30... And the 18:30 X1 I took yesterday had almost every seat filled despite the storm, so I wonder if any of them are SRO...

 

Oh and you think people just want to up and move after they've put down roots in a house or a condo? And even if they do, it's not always so easy (i.e. recession).

 

The X1 has always run every hour after 5 PM. As far as the X10 goes, I'm sure it has something to do with starting right near the Castleton Depot.

 

If anything, less enforcement will just embolden fare beaters even more. Now, they just get on, tell the driver they don't have any change and march and sit down as if they're entitled to ride for free because they gots no change, while the rest of us suckers pay. Utterly ridiculous. :tdown:

 

You already know my opinion about even having a fare on the subway/local bus.

 

Let's remember how the X27/X28 started... The subway issues started the whole express bus deal over there. The MTA agreed that they'd give Southwest Brooklyn express bus service for that time. Once they dealt with the subway issues down there they wanted to pull all express bus service down there. Residents refused and then they backed off, but leave it to the MTA to look for a way to get their way. This whole debacle of getting rid of the X37/X38 is just their way of trying to kill the lines. I've seen how dead the

X27/X28s are going to Midtown during the AM rush after the Downtown stop... It's like night and day from last year. I agree... I will be monitoring this situation very closely.

 

Their attitude is they can take the train, but they have not linked the N and R lines for years, which I just don't get and then they want to kill the express bus. You can get off an N train at 59th in Brooklyn and wait 20 minutes before an R comes... At least in the old days anyway. I doubt this has changed very much. So in sum, they're telling these riders that they don't need a quick route to Manhattan, period.

 

Very similar situation with the X16... They cut the X16 because they argued that we can just take the local bus to the ferry, but the local bus/limited stop bus rarely meets up with the ferry as it should, nor is it reliable. That makes it very hard to justify cutting the X16 and that's why people like myself were so pissed. The one difference here is the MTA knows that Bay Ridge/Dyker Heights residents have more power so it won't be so easy for them to kill the X27/X28 the way they did with the X16.

 

The logic that the MTA used with the X16 and X18 could've applied to many of the express routes in the system: A rider can always take a local bus to the subway (or in this case, the ferry). Of course, I'm not advocating for the elimination of all express buses, but I'm saying that their logic makes no sense when applied in some neighborhoods rather than others.

 

I'm also surprised that the MTA didn't suggest that former X16/X18 riders take a local bus over to another express route. In the case of the X18, it is still faster to take the S74/S76, S52/S78, or S51 down to Narrows Road South and wait for an express bus going to your destination. I'm sure the same applies to the X16.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One of the concepts of a public education is that it should be open to everybody-regardless of how much money a student (or in this case, their family) has. If they can't afford to pay the fare, they still need a way to get to school.

 

 

 

The X1 has always run every hour after 5 PM. As far as the X10 goes, I'm sure it has something to do with starting right near the Castleton Depot.

 

 

 

You already know my opinion about even having a fare on the subway/local bus.

 

 

 

The logic that the MTA used with the X16 and X18 could've applied to many of the express routes in the system: A rider can always take a local bus to the subway (or in this case, the ferry). Of course, I'm not advocating for the elimination of all express buses, but I'm saying that their logic makes no sense when applied in some neighborhoods rather than others.

 

I'm also surprised that the MTA didn't suggest that former X16/X18 riders take a local bus over to another express route. In the case of the X18, it is still faster to take the S74/S76, S52/S78, or S51 down to Narrows Road South and wait for an express bus going to your destination. I'm sure the same applies to the X16.[/QUOTE]

 

I think you make too many conclusions based on theory and not on the actual situation. I was taking the S98 to the ferry to the subway for almost a two years before becoming fed up with the local bus. In "theory" the S98 from Forest & Broadway should take roughly 15-20 minutes. Now the schedule says "11 minutes", which is a joke. lol The X16 had problems at night, but it was pretty consistent during the morning, which is really what is important for obvious reasons and it was 40 minutes to the city, compared to an hour with the bus/ferry combo. The S98 is very inconsistent. Two S98s would often come together, sometimes as much as 20 minutes late and packed and of course we'd miss the ferry. It is very easy to say take the local bus, but if you're going to advocate that as the MTA did, then fix the damn service!! I mean it's ridiculous the lack of headways they give the S48/98 line... They should also provide more of a cushion between the time the bus is scheduled to arrive at the ferry.

 

I still see quite a few X16 riders that refuse to take the ferry and I don't blame them. First off three connections and one really unreliable one at that, which screws up the other two. That hour and 15 minute commute would sometimes balloon to two hours to almost two and a half hours by the time you wait for the late bus, then wait for the next ferry. In sum having to make three connections everyday is very stressful because no matter how early you leave, having three connections, it's more probable that something will happen with one of them as opposed one connection.

 

Another big problem was maintenance, especially on the local buses. For a while, management on Staten Island out of Castleton just let the buses go down hill. I was so glad when new management came in. It was very evident in terms of the service in general.

[checkmatechamp13]

One of the concepts of a public education is that it should be open to everybody-regardless of how much money a student (or in this case, their family) has. If they can't afford to pay the fare, they still need a way to get to school.

 

 

 

The X1 has always run every hour after 5 PM. As far as the X10 goes, I'm sure it has something to do with starting right near the Castleton Depot.

 

 

 

You already know my opinion about even having a fare on the subway/local bus.

 

 

 

The logic that the MTA used with the X16 and X18 could've applied to many of the express routes in the system: A rider can always take a local bus to the subway (or in this case, the ferry). Of course, I'm not advocating for the elimination of all express buses, but I'm saying that their logic makes no sense when applied in some neighborhoods rather than others.

 

I'm also surprised that the MTA didn't suggest that former X16/X18 riders take a local bus over to another express route. In the case of the X18, it is still faster to take the S74/S76, S52/S78, or S51 down to Narrows Road South and wait for an express bus going to your destination. I'm sure the same applies to the X16.[/QUOTE]

 

Do realize that I was taking the S98 to the ferry to the subway for almost a two years before becoming fed up with the local bus? The X16 had problems at night, but it was pretty consistent during the morning, which is really what is important for obvious reasons and it was 40 minutes to the city, compared to an hour with the bus/ferry combo. The S98 is very inconsistent. Two S98s would often come together, sometimes as much as 20 minutes late and packed and of course we'd miss the ferry. It is very easy to say take the local bus, but if you're going to advocate that as the MTA did, then fix the damn service!! I mean it's ridiculous the lack of headways they give the S48/98 line... Way too tight and they should provide more of a cushion between the time the bus is scheduled to arrive at the ferry. I still see quite a few X16 riders that refuse to take the ferry and I don't blame them. First off three connections and one really unreliable one at that, which screws up the other two. That hour and 15 minute commute would sometimes balloon to two hours to almost two and a half hours by the time you wait for the late bus, then wait for the next ferry.

 

Did I ever once mention to take the ferry??? In the post you highlighted, I said to take local buses to other express buses, not the ferry.

 

All I said was that their logic wasn't applied the same way in all parts of the city. You could make the same argument that the X68 can be cut because you can just take the Q43 to the , but it wasn't.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

One of the concepts of a public education is that it should be open to everybody-regardless of how much money a student (or in this case, their family) has. If they can't afford to pay the fare, they still need a way to get to school.

 

 

 

The X1 has always run every hour after 5 PM. As far as the X10 goes, I'm sure it has something to do with starting right near the Castleton Depot.

 

 

You already know my opinion about even having a fare on the subway/local bus.

 

 

 

The logic that the MTA used with the X16 and X18 could've applied to many of the express routes in the system: A rider can always take a local bus to the subway (or in this case, the ferry). Of course, I'm not advocating for the elimination of all express buses, but I'm saying that their logic makes no sense when applied in some neighborhoods rather than others.

 

I'm also surprised that the MTA didn't suggest that former X16/X18 riders take a local bus over to another express route. In the case of the X18, it is still faster to take the S74/S76, S52/S78, or S51 down to Narrows Road South and wait for an express bus going to your destination. I'm sure the same applies to the X16.

 

 

The busiest express bus line in the city and it runs once an hour to Manhattan after 17:30? Mind you that X1s are running as much as every 5 minutes going to Staten Island after 18:30, so why not pull a one of those buses each hour and have 30 minute headways?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 

Did I ever once mention to take the ferry??? In the post you highlighted, I said to take local buses to other express buses, not the ferry.

 

All I said was that their logic wasn't applied the same way in all parts of the city. You could make the same argument that the X68 can be cut because you can just take the Q43 to the , but it wasn't.

 

I highlighted the wrong area... This is the part I should've highlighted...

 

The logic that the MTA used with the X16 and X18 could've applied to many of the express routes in the system: A rider can always take a local bus to the subway (or in this case, the ferry). Of course, I'm not advocating for the elimination of all express buses, but I'm saying that their logic makes no sense when applied in some neighborhoods rather than others

 

Why would they advocate taking a local bus to an express bus when they argued that the X16 was unnecessary because we could take the local bus to the ferry??? That would shred their whole argument, because if you're advocating taking a local bus to another express bus then that means that the X16 has value and shouldn't be cut.

 

I personally think that the X18 as it was routed was poorly routed. It should've been extended somehow to serve more areas than just Rosebank mainly.

[checkmatechamp13]

The thing about extending it is that you could end up lengthening the trip for some riders.

 

For example, there are some relatively well-to-do parts of Stapleton that could probably benefit from an express bus, but to run it further north (say, via Targee Street), you would either:

 

a) End up lengthening the trips for people near the beginning of the route

 

Have to cut out a portion of the route so that it doesn't become too circuituous.

 

By the MTA standards, the X18 was actually doing alright for an express route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing about extending it is that you could end up lengthening the trip for some riders.

 

For example, there are some relatively well-to-do parts of Stapleton that could probably benefit from an express bus, but to run it further north (say, via Targee Street), you would either:

 

a) End up lengthening the trips for people near the beginning of the route

 

Have to cut out a portion of the route so that it doesn't become too circuituous.

 

By the MTA standards, the X18 was actually doing alright for an express route.

 

 

Folks in areas of Stapleton Heights could've used that...

 

I just dug up an old SI map with the X18 and X20 on it... The X20 run was way too short. It's no wonder it died. It just served as an overflow bus. Was there ever a time when it was actually running somewhat at capacity and when did it start running as a route?

[JAzumah]

Don't feel like quoting right now, so I'll reply to what I've read in the latter pages, in summary form:

 

 

- Joel will stop at nothin to slander that S89...

 

 

 

Slander consists of unfounded negative statements about someone or something. The fact remains that new bus services must have a public hearing. Significant alterations must have a public hearing. They had a public hearing to extend the S55 by a half mile, but no public hearing for a 12.5 mile new bus route? Does that make sense to you?

 

If we want to have the ability to influence policy, we must have the right information. If you stick the S89's ridership numbers in with the S59 so that no one sees it ranks in the bottom ten routes in ridership, then you have deprived the public of an opportunity to provide adequate comment on this issue. This is especially true when you keep the S89's ridership separately from the S59. I note that the S93 is also an independent route, but the S91 (an example of a typical SI Limited) does not have its individual ridership listed.

 

You don't play these types of games with bus routes unless politics are involved. You don't support this type of behavior unless you want the system to collapse. The MTA gets a hard time getting anything because the agency is seen as corrupt. When the private subway companies did city politicians favors, they earned a reputation for being corrupt and the city killed them with the five cent fare.