Express bus cut talk

[checkmatechamp13]

But at the hearing itself, there weren't a whole lot of people talking about the X16/X18. To be honest, I don't think they really look at the petitions and letters that are sent.

 

I have a transcript of the public hearing (by the way, if you are interested, you can call the MTA and ask them to mail a copy to your home. I counted three speakers talking about the X18 and one speaker talking about the X16.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But at the hearing itself, there weren't a whole lot of people talking about the X16/X18. To be honest, I don't think they really look at the petitions and letters that are sent.

 

I have a transcript of the public hearing (by the way, if you are interested, you can call the MTA and ask them to mail a copy to your home. I counted three speakers talking about the X18 and one speaker talking about the X16.

 

But many others couldn't make it to the hearing and they thanked me for going and speaking on their behalf. I'm starting to wonder if you weren't sitting too far from me. I believe you were scheduled to speak shortly after I did. What did you think about so many MTA B/Os being there?

[checkmatechamp13]

I was sitting towards the back in the center (what's the word?) column of seats. My family was split up-I sat with my mother on one side of the room and my father and brother sat on the other side.

 

The thing was that I pre registered to speak about 2 weeks before the hearing, but they didn't have a record of me doing so. So I had to register again at 7:20PM. However, by about 9:50PM, I began to think how ridiculous it was and explained the situation to them, so I got to speak 5 minutes later, at 9:55PM.

[JAzumah]

I think he is trying to sue them for running him off of his route.

 

As far as the S89 goes, it is to be expected, since he was the former operator of the 144 (though some of the arguments have very little merit, like express buses being cut to subsidize the S89). However, the thing is that, if his service was more reliable, he would have more riders (I believe that, when the S89 first started, the fare was $2 for the local bus and $1.90 for the light rail, while he was charging $5 for the 144. For $1.10 more, you could have a one-seat ride)

 

Basically, the 144 would be able to coexist with the S89 if the service was better. Think about it-you have many express routes that compete with local bus->subway alternatives, and they do alright (and the difference in the fares is higher)

 

I am not going to sue the MTA over the S89. Retaliation is much cheaper.

 

I think that what you are saying shows that you don't know the market. The locals and expresses on SI do not co-exist. The express bus customers are NOT INTERESTED in the local runs. People move to Staten Island in droves during the 1990s because of the express bus service. Homes were being sold based on express bus and SIR access, not local buses. If you look at the advertising of homes, you will not find that they advertise access to local buses. These are in essence two separate bus systems.

 

This is why the North Shore Railroad is a big deal. There is no need for it except to "foster economic development". Some people just don't like riding the S40 and it is a bad idea to spend $400M to compete with it. You'll also notice that Bronx and Queens express bus customers largely ignore the local bus system.

[Forest Glen]

Of course, I'm still crying. The next logical steps are to eliminate the X3, X9, and X42. In theory, the X3, X9, and X42 do not need a public hearing to be eliminated since they are all derivatives of other routes. If the cash is really short, the X11 is an X10 derivative and it could be cut too.

 

If the X42 is eliminated then hell will freeze over. It is my favorite express bus route.

 

That his line went bust because of his own doing... And as far as his "legal actions", I don't think there is much he can do about it, so the end result of it is endless bitching.

 

Let me tell you a little story. Last summer, the X90 was eliminated. Joel rented some charter buses that operated on the X90's route. Service ran every 30 minutes. Ridership was decent. One run even had nearly 40 passengers. The mistake he made was that he boasted about his service in the Daily News. The MTA and DOT quickly got wind of it and filed an injunction in court, shutting down the route. The irony of the situation is that there is a van service that basically does the same thing yet they're not receiving any flack. I honestly believed that had he been more discreet about the route then he wouldn't have been harassed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I am not going to sue the MTA over the S89. Retaliation is much cheaper.

 

I think that what you are saying shows that you don't know the market. The locals and expresses on SI do not co-exist. The express bus customers are NOT INTERESTED in the local runs. People move to Staten Island in droves during the 1990s because of the express bus service. Homes were being sold based on express bus and SIR access, not local buses. If you look at the advertising of homes, you will not find that they advertise access to local buses. These are in essence two separate bus systems.

 

This is why the North Shore Railroad is a big deal. There is no need for it except to "foster economic development". Some people just don't like riding the S40 and it is a bad idea to spend $400M to compete with it. You'll also notice that Bronx and Queens express bus customers largely ignore the local bus system.

 

Condos and houses are often advertised with emphasis put on express bus service. It's understood that a certain crowd buying condos or houses have certain expectations, one being express bus service if they're in a suburban area. I can remember a few years back when I was considering moving into an apt. on Shore Road seeing the X27 advertised as near "steps away" on several listings. In fact, because they axed weekend service down there, it was a big reason why I reconsidered moving there. Parking is a nightmare over there and the express bus is a far less stressful option since I have no interest in driving currently. :cool:

 

I do disagree about rail service though. Rail service can come into play on the North Shore because it is a fact that residents use public transportation far more than the South Shore does and with the population steadily growing on the island, the rail service would help take the stress off of bus service needs. Of course it would also help foster economic development. That's only natural.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Forest Glen]

That's not true. Whenever the free Metro newspaper lists property for rent or sale, they always emphasize the property's proximity to an express bus route. The express bus is a symbol of an elite neighborhood.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[LRG]

That's not true. Whenever the free Metro newspaper lists property for rent or sale, they always emphasize the property's proximity to an express bus route. The express bus is a symbol of an elite neighborhood.

 

That is far from true seeing that you have express buses that originate in the slums of the North Shore of Staten Island (e.g. Port Richmond).

[Cait Sith]

That is far from true seeing that you have express buses that originate in the slums of the North Shore of Staten Island (e.g. Port Richmond).

 

Too add onto this, parts of South Ozone Park and The Rockaways, those are FAR from being elitist neighborhoods....

[JAzumah]

But they still suffered through service reductions on other routes (and I don't think those increases were more than the service that was reduced)

 

MTA Bus added a ton of runs, particularly on the express network. The B103 had service increased 20 times beyond what it used to have. The Q53 had buses added in bulk. The Q21 was beefed up substantially. The BM1-4 and the QM15 got hourly Saturday service. MTA Bus added $113M in service since they took over. I don't see any major cuts in MTA Bus unless the city stops paying.

 

 

It didn't have a budget gap back in 2007. Even with a big budget gap politicians were still protesting the service reductions (Like the S60. They didn't even offer a solution to restructure it. They just wanted it kept in its expensive form)

 

Yes, they did. They had a multi-billion gap at the state level. The state hasnt truly balanced a budget in 20 years. They have been dipping into MTA dedicated tax funds for years, but the previous MTA administrations never grumbled as loudly. The S60 was one bus a day...it was not breaking the bank.

 

 

The College of SI runs its own route between St. George and CSI, so I'm sure they would be willing to use their resources to run a Brooklyn-CSI route if needed (that would actually be more justfied, since passengers from St. George can use the S62).

 

That route is subsidized by a federal grant from the Job Access & Reverse Commute program. I'm sure the MTA would have run it for them if they had offered them money. However, no one wants to give the MTA any money to do anything.

 

 

Last summer, the X90 was eliminated. Joel rented some charter buses that operated on the X90's route. Service ran every 30 minutes. Ridership was decent. One run even had nearly 40 passengers. The mistake he made was that he boasted about his service in the Daily News. The MTA and DOT quickly got wind of it and filed an injunction in court, shutting down the route. The irony of the situation is that there is a van service that basically does the same thing yet they're not receiving any flack. I honestly believed that had he been more discreet about the route then he wouldn't have been harassed.

 

The MTA had no problem with the service. None. What is coming out in court about the NYCDOT and this action is very interesting. You only run a discreet service if you aren't legal or don't want certain types of people on it. Neither applied in this case. You should never have to be discreet when your actions are legal.

 

 

I don't think it will be a good idea.

If you charge a $5.50 fare, you won't be able to turn a profit, but if you charge a higher fare, people will just take the X17J, which comes very frequently (not to mention, passengers going to Manhattan wouldn't want to sit through the stop at Newark Airport).

I think there is a large enough passenger base between SI and Newark Airport (and possibly Newark Penn Station) to make a profit at $5-$6 per person. You won't be competing with any MTA service.

 

 

The fare would be varied. $10 to EWR and $5 everywhere else. The 100 will go bonkers, especially with Arlene Street trips sprinkled in. Bonkers.

 

 

But the borough president apparently was able to use his power to create the route in the first place. In any case, no politician in their right mind would oppose the creation of a new service, considering that everybody at the public hearings in March were chanting "No service cuts!"

 

He was not able to save the X16 and didn't bother to be at the service cut hearings. This term will probably be his last because of all the cuts SI will endure soon. They will not be alone. A former MTA analyst believes that the transit system will devolve into haves on private buses and have nots on the MTA because of the level of cuts he sees coming soon.

 

 

Rail service can come into play on the North Shore because it is a fact that residents use public transportation far more than the South Shore does and with the population steadily growing on the island, the rail service would help take the stress off of bus service needs.

 

A light rail line that would cost $400M to build and carry 15,000 passengers/day is going to be a financial disaster. SIR carries 15,000 now and that is why a busway concept keeps popping up.

[JAzumah]

That is far from true seeing that you have express buses that originate in the slums of the North Shore of Staten Island (e.g. Port Richmond).

 

Conveniently located near the depot. It also makes supervision easier.

 

 

Too add onto this, parts of South Ozone Park and The Rockaways, those are FAR from being elitist neighborhoods....

 

Forest Glen said elite and generally, he is right. Homes are pricey in South Ozone Park despite being in a flight path. The Rockaways has very elite pockets that try to isolate themselves from the massive project developments. Breezy Point, Neponsit, Belle Harbor, and Rockaway Park, along with sections of Arverne and Far Rockaway still carry heavy political weight. The ferry push was done to serve these people.

[LRG]

Just because someone has $200 a month to shell out on express buses does NOT mean they have the up and up on the MTA, compared to those who ride the subway and bus for $104 a month.

 

You guys are really misusing the term "elite". Do you really want to see elite uptight obnoxious racist snobs? Go to The Upper East Side and Yorkville and there you have the true definition of elite, people who think they're too good to ride the subway. I'm glad the X90 is gone. Let them use the M15 +SBS for what it's worth. The LFSA that are running on the M15 anyway are worth a ride over an MCI, even if there's a difference in fare.

[checkmatechamp13]

Replies in bold

 

MTA Bus added a ton of runs, particularly on the express network. The B103 had service increased 20 times beyond what it used to have. The Q53 had buses added in bulk. The Q21 was beefed up substantially. The BM1-4 and the QM15 got hourly Saturday service. MTA Bus added $113M in service since they took over. I don't see any major cuts in MTA Bus unless the city stops paying.

 

Yes, they did. They had a multi-billion gap at the state level. The state hasnt truly balanced a budget in 20 years. They have been dipping into MTA dedicated tax funds for years, but the previous MTA administrations never grumbled as loudly. The S60 was one bus a day...it was not breaking the bank.

 

But you saw how the politicians were still trying to save all of the service, even the duplicative services along Hylan Blvd. They knew they had a budget deficit, yet they did nothing to help them.

 

 

That route is subsidized by a federal grant from the Job Access & Reverse Commute program. I'm sure the MTA would have run it for them if they had offered them money. However, no one wants to give the MTA any money to do anything.

 

 

The MTA had no problem with the service. None. What is coming out in court about the NYCDOT and this action is very interesting. You only run a discreet service if you aren't legal or don't want certain types of people on it. Neither applied in this case. You should never have to be discreet when your actions are legal.

 

So what was the reason then? Lack of permits?

 

 

The fare would be varied. $10 to EWR and $5 everywhere else. The 100 will go bonkers' date=' especially with Arlene Street trips sprinkled in. Bonkers.

 

[b']But what would prevent a person from buying a ticket to Manhattan and getting off at EWR? Would there be local fares for service within SI?[/b]

 

 

He was not able to save the X16 and didn't bother to be at the service cut hearings. This term will probably be his last because of all the cuts SI will endure soon. They will not be alone. A former MTA analyst believes that the transit system will devolve into haves on private buses and have nots on the MTA because of the level of cuts he sees coming soon.

 

He did send a representative to make a speech on his behalf (and she made a suggestion to raise the cash toll on the VZ Bridge to make up for the service reductions)

 

 

A light rail line that would cost $400M to build and carry 15' date='000 passengers/day is going to be a financial disaster. SIR carries 15,000 now and that is why a busway concept keeps popping up.

 

[b']I heard that the along Myrtle Avenue carries 15,000 riders per day and it covers a similar distance[/b]

 

 

Not to jump in on this discussion again, as frankly I don't want to be anywhere near it -- but regarding this idea of express buses v. local buses in the marketplace:

 

Isn't it pretty clear that it absolutely does not matter whether or not a bus is express or local? These marketers are trumping the CONNECTIONS available because of express bus service. You can't take an S42 to City Hall, any way you cut it. So whether or not you're talking about an S89 to New Jersey or an x89 to New Jersey, it's the service that counts. Unless you've got the "I wouldn't touch a local bus" snobs, the type of bus and fare shouldn't mean a thing -- I don't buy this argument that people only buy these houses because I they can take an express bus. No, they buy the houses so they are close to an interborough bus, of any sort.

 

Aren't most homes being advertised as being "close to public transportation", not necessarily close to express service? I think what matters is that it is easy to get to/from work (so homes near the subway do sell/rent fairly easily).

When my family moved to SI, we actually didn't know about the express bus-we just knew that it was near 2 major bus lines (Richmond Avenue for local travel and Victory Blvd for fast service to St. George), so we would have decent service.

 

 

I am not going to sue the MTA over the S89. Retaliation is much cheaper.

 

I think that what you are saying shows that you don't know the market. The locals and expresses on SI do not co-exist. The express bus customers are NOT INTERESTED in the local runs. People move to Staten Island in droves during the 1990s because of the express bus service. Homes were being sold based on express bus and SIR access, not local buses. If you look at the advertising of homes, you will not find that they advertise access to local buses. These are in essence two separate bus systems.

 

This is why the North Shore Railroad is a big deal. There is no need for it except to "foster economic development". Some people just don't like riding the S40 and it is a bad idea to spend $400M to compete with it. You'll also notice that Bronx and Queens express bus customers largely ignore the local bus system.

 

Didn't you say that you had a bunch of customers who were interested in direct service to Jersey City? That proves that there is a demand for express service, even though there is a parallel local service.

 

[Amtrak7]

Too add onto this, parts of South Ozone Park and The Rockaways, those are FAR from being elitist neighborhoods....

 

Rush hours only. Notice which Queens and Brooklyn locales get weekend service. (Fresh Meadows, N Shore Towers, Mill Basin, Gerritsen Beach, College Point, Whitestone, Electchester, Kew Gardens)

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[checkmatechamp13]

The people who take express buses aren't necessarily concerned about being elite-they are concerned about getting to work in a comfortable manner. In some of those areas, the express bus makes a significant dent in the length of the commute.

 

For example, for me to get to Midtown Manhattan during rush hour, the quickest way is the X17J-about 45 minutes. If I were to take the local bus and ferry, the trip would be:

30 minutes to St. George

30 minutes across NY Harbor (includes 5 minutes waiting time for the ferry to arrive)

20 minutes to Midtown.

 

You can see that the express bus cuts the commute virtually in half.

 

I'm sure a good portion of express bus riders would be willing to use local buses/subways to get to work if the trip time was shorter.

[Forest Glen]

Just because someone has $200 a month to shell out on express buses does NOT mean they have the up and up on the MTA, compared to those who ride the subway and bus for $104 a month.

 

You guys are really misusing the term "elite". Do you really want to see elite uptight obnoxious racist snobs? Go to The Upper East Side and Yorkville and there you have the true definition of elite, people who think they're too good to ride the subway. I'm glad the X90 is gone. Let them use the M15 +SBS for what it's worth. The LFSA that are running on the M15 anyway are worth a ride over an MCI, even if there's a difference in fare.

 

As always, you're wrong.

 

The people who take express buses aren't necessarily concerned about being elite-they are concerned about getting to work in a comfortable manner. In some of those areas, the express bus makes a significant dent in the length of the commute.

 

For example, for me to get to Midtown Manhattan during rush hour, the quickest way is the X17J-about 45 minutes. If I were to take the local bus and ferry, the trip would be:

30 minutes to St. George

30 minutes across NY Harbor (includes 5 minutes waiting time for the ferry to arrive)

20 minutes to Midtown.

 

You can see that the express bus cuts the commute virtually in half.

 

I'm sure a good portion of express bus riders would be willing to use local buses/subways to get to work if the trip time was shorter.

 

It's not just that. There's the convenience of a one seat ride and being able to relax. That's not the case on a subway/ferry/local bus.

[NX Express]

As always, you're wrong.

If only I was a mod...:confused:

 

Seriously, can you post something a tiny bit more detailed?

[LRG]

As always, you're wrong.

 

Hmmmmm...could it be that maybe I am wrong, are you just being so self-centered and conceited to the point that you can't see both sides of an issue.

 

You are wearing blinders Mr. Leonard Wilson. You continue to look straight and you are prohibiting yourself from looking around you.

[Cait Sith]

Just because someone has $200 a month to shell out on express buses does NOT mean they have the up and up on the MTA, compared to those who ride the subway and bus for $104 a month.

 

You guys are really misusing the term "elite". Do you really want to see elite uptight obnoxious racist snobs? Go to The Upper East Side and Yorkville and there you have the true definition of elite, people who think they're too good to ride the subway. I'm glad the X90 is gone. Let them use the M15 +SBS for what it's worth. The LFSA that are running on the M15 anyway are worth a ride over an MCI, even if there's a difference in fare.

 

If you had read my previous post about the x90, you'd see where I'm coming from with the elitists along that line. And I agree 100%, make those f*cks use the Lexington Avenue Line & the damn M15 Select Bus Service.

[Forest Glen]

There's nothing elitist about wanting a comfortable ride. This is just more express bus hatorade.

[553 Bridgeton]

. And I agree 100%, make those f*cks use the Lexington Avenue Line & the damn M15 Select Bus Service.

 

I agree also. When I fanned the M15 Select, I was actually surprised at how much people that didnt ride it. And most of the people that got off the ferry ran to the (1)/® or took a cab.

 

Snobs dont even begin to describe those Upper Eastside peeps.

[LRG]

If you had read my previous post about the x90, you'd see where I'm coming from with the elitists along that line. And I agree 100%, make those f*cks use the Lexington Avenue Line & the damn M15 Select Bus Service.

 

Yup, I know EXACTLY what you're talking about

 

There's nothing elitist about wanting a comfortable ride. This is just more express bus hatorade.

 

I, for one, do NOT hate express buses, so don't generalize. But if the riders are gonna call someone else on the bus that they think robbed someone for the $5.50 to ride the bus out of their name, then that is beyond elitist, that's just racist.

 

I'm sorry to say this but you're worrying about express buses too much as if it's the greatest thing in the world. You even said yourself you can't afford to ride them as much as you please so what's the deal? You do know there's more to life outside of transit, right? Consider taking up rock climbing or canoeing or something similar of the sort.