Status of the M2/M4/M6 Fleet

[Rutgers Tube]

Now that the M8 cars have found their way into passenger service and the M-8 Discussion thread has abuzz with all sorts of videos, pictures, links to news reports and other sites and all sorts of commentary, I've been thinking about all of the people who've been bashing the MTA, Metro-North and CDOT for condition of the New Haven equipment, especially considering what transpired this past winter. The brutal weather conditions that we encountered up this way would have wiped out just about any North American commuter railroad service provider, and still Metro-North managed to keep moving, stay rolling, and build and rebuild the aging "Never Say Die" New Haven Line railcars. Many people here have not been kind to the M2's, M4's and M6's, and almost everyone has been extremely anxious to see the M8's run for revenue. Still, I have to wonder:

 

How long will it be before an "M2/M4/M6 Retirement" thread is started, and how many of the people who knocked the old cars and couldn't wait for the new cars to start moving passengers will be the ones who are asking "When and where do the M2/4/6's run?" and who will be posting the final pictures of the cars that almost everyone (there are a few of us here who haven't crapped on those cars - perhaps literally) has cursed and complained about and have wanted to see vanish from the rails?

 

I guess this is simply the mindset of the railfan community.

[4P3607]

Hey... What about the M3?

[via White Plains Road]

Hey... What about the M3?

 

M-3=LIRR fleet!

[4P3607]

M-3=LIRR fleet!

 

okay then, M3A?

I saw something at 125 Street a while ago that looked like an M3/A...

[via White Plains Road]

okay then, M3A?

I saw something at 125 Street a while ago that looked like an M3/A...

 

M-3A still run....they run on the Harlem Line!

[SevenEleven]

okay then, M3A?

I saw something at 125 Street a while ago that looked like an M3/A...

 

The M2, M4, M6, M8 and the Diesel fleet only runs on the New Haven Line. North of Pelham is all catenary so the M3 nor M7 cannot run there.

 

The M8s are supposed to retire the M2s and some of the M4s.

[4P3607]

Sorry, I know I should be fanning the railroads more but what are the differences between the M2/4/6? :confused:

[m7zanr160s]

Why retire the M4's, they are still young?

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Rutgers Tube]

M2s are pairs, the others are triplets

 

M2s were built by Budd in the 60s, the others in 1987 by Tokyu and 1993 by Morrison Knudsen

 

The M2's were not built by Budd, nor were they built during the 1960's.

 

The Budd "Metropolitan" (M1/A, M3/A) body design was purchased by GE. Canadian Vickers constructed the bodies for GE using the aforementioned Budd patent, and GE supplied all of the electrical components. This order was carried out between 1972 and 1977.

[Kamen Rider]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[mark1447]

Them M2s got a long way (1 by 1) before they die! Retirement should be started somewhere in the middle of this year.

 

The M2, M4, M6, M8 and the Diesel fleet only runs on the New Haven Line. North of Pelham is all catenary so the M3 nor M7 cannot run there.

 

The M8s are supposed to retire the M2s and some of the M4s.

 

Pelham and North of Pelham is catenary .

 

 

 

Not all of the NHL/NEC runs these fleets, namly the branches, New Cannon runs the Diesels and electric, Danbury runs Diesel only and the Waterbury i believe only diesel. Rest of NH is just the EMUs.

[Vistausss]

The M2, M4, M6, M8 and the Diesel fleet only runs on the New Haven Line. North of Pelham is all catenary so the M3 nor M7 cannot run there.

 

The M8s are supposed to retire the M2s and some of the M4s.

 

Correction: the M8s are supposed to retire the entire M2-fleet and the entire M4-fleet.

[mark1447]

Correction: the M8s are supposed to retire the entire M2-fleet and the entire M4-fleet.

 

When did the M4s came in to the retirement table, i thought the M4/6s will remain while the M2s were to be kicked?

 

Seems like the OTTs of the NH Cosmos will be harder to catch.

 

M-3A still run....they run on the Harlem Line!

 

And Hudson Line Bro.

[4P3607]

I don't get it, so the M2 & M4 are going to be retired, but an M3A is older than M4. Shouldn't the M3A be retired first?

and on the LIRR I think they are retiring some M3's because that set sitting at hunterspoint does not look like its going to move anytime soon.

[trainfan22]

^^^^ MNR overhauled the M3s not to long ago, so I'd assume there fine for now.

[lilbluefoxie]

When did the M4s came in to the retirement table, i thought the M4/6s will remain while the M2s were to be kicked?

 

Seems like the OTTs of the NH Cosmos will be harder to catch.

 

 

 

And Hudson Line Bro.

 

His info might be wrong, ive heard the M4 and M6s will remain since theres not enough M8s to replace them. Remember the plan is to give some M8s to Shore Line East.

[St Louis Car 09]

The M4 isnt going anywhere.There are only 54 of them in triplets.I rode a Tokyu M4 car last night and there is a noticable difference in performance and smoothness comapared to GE's M2.No need to retire the M4

[aemoreira81]

Why retire the M4's, they are still young?

 

The M4s are currently 24 years old. In addition, there are only 18 M4 triplex sets (and 16 M6 triplex sets)

 

What I could see happening though is that the 20 best M4 and M6 triplexes could be rehabbed and used for Harlem and Hudson Line service.

 

Now, if all options are exercised, that would 380 cars ordered...the current M2/4/6 fleet is 344 cars, with a few pairs retired. The Shore Line East fleet, which runs diesel under wire, is about 30 cars.

 

It would be too smart for ConnDOT to not consider combining the New Haven Line with Shore Line East, running some trains through to Old Saybrook and then to New London from Grand Central, which would also reduce the pool of cars required and leave some cars for service increases.

 

Shore Line East is currently operated by Amtrak, but what could happen is that Amtrak crews could take over the schedule at New Haven Union Station, with a scheduled 10-minute layover.

[Rutgers Tube]

The M4 isnt going anywhere.There are only 54 of them in triplets.I rode a Tokyu M4 car last night and there is a noticable difference in performance and smoothness comapared to GE's M2.No need to retire the M4

 

The M4's are generally the least preferred equipment to run according to many engineers with whom I've spoken and from comments that I've read. Though all of the M2's, M4's and M6's have the same Schedule 26 GRB-1 braking systems, it's my understanding that the M4's require a lot more braking effort to comply with a signal downgrade. The secondary voltage inverters on the M4's are also notoriously bad, providing for a steady stream of dead sets. And a dead triplet is a lot heavier than a dead pair, no matter now deep with a consist it's buried.

 

Also, remember that the M2 CSR was intended, more than anything else, to buy a little more time until a good portion of the M8 order comes in and is running in passenger service. Once the M2's are retired, the M4's and M6's will be isolated equipment with that cannot be coupled to the M8's. Moreover, the technology is old, the components fairly difficult to procure, and with the federal mandate of PTC implementation by 2015, along with the additional funding to secure the final M8 order option, I just can't see a great chunk of change being sunk into rehabbing and modernizing the M4's and M6's at this point.

 

For additional information, please refer to the pasted links and document excerpts below.

 

The M4s are currently 24 years old. In addition, there are only 18 M4 triplex sets (and 16 M6 triplex sets)

 

What I could see happening though is that the 20 best M4 and M6 triplexes could be rehabbed and used for Harlem and Hudson Line service.

 

Taken from pages 88-89 of the Proposed MTA Capital Program 2010-2014:

 

 

M-4 and M-6 Critical Systems Replacements (CSR)

 

These projects are needed to complete the M-4 CSR which received initial funding in the 2005-2009 Capital Program, and continue a similar program for the M-6 fleet to ensure the reliable performance of this equipment through the end of its useful life. The 54-car M-4 fleet was purchased in 1987, and the 48-car M-6 fleet in 1993. Neither fleet has ever had a significant overhaul program, and key components of these fleets have either reached the end of their useful life, are obsolete, or have become difficult to replace in a cost-effective manner, which significantly degrades current and future reliability. These programs will take advantage of technological upgrades now available to significantly improve reliability for the fleet’s remaining life.

Metro-North’s total cost in the proposed 2010-2014 Capital Program is $14 million for the M-4 fleet and $22 million for the M-6 fleet.

 

 

Andddddddddd taken from pages 167-169 of http://www.ct.gov/dot/lib/dot/documents/dplansprojectsstudies/plans/state_rail_plan/State_Rail_Plan_2010.pdf

 

 

RAIL ROLLING STOCK

 

 

 

Manufacture and Delivery of M8 Electric Multiple Unit (EMU) Rail Cars (Project No. 0300-0116)

 

 

 

In September 2006, Metro-North Railroad acting on behalf of the Department awarded a contract to Kawasaki Rail Car for the manufacture and delivery of up to 380 electric multiple unit rail cars.

 

The acquisition of new rail cars is a critical need for this commuter rail service, since the first generation of 241 M-2 Electric Multiple Unit (EMU) cars on the NHL is over thirty years old. Replacement of these rail cars will address fleet reliability, ridership and service demand, and American with Disabilities Act requirements.

The purchase of these cars would also enable operation of the EMU equipment on SLE.

 

The General Assembly approved funding for the procurement in 2005 and the Bond Commission authorized it in August 2006. Deliveries of the first rail cars for the 300 cars ordered began arriving in December 2009 and the remainder of cars will be delivered through December 2012. The Department can exercise the option to purchase up to 80 additional rail cars as funding becomes available.

 

 

 

M4 Car Critical System Replacement (Project No. TBD)

 

 

 

The M4 EMU fleet was manufactured in 1987 and the M6 EMU fleet was manufactured in 1994. Both fleets are relatively small fleets in numbers 54 – M4’s and 48- M6’s.

 

The Department and MNR agree that some type of Critical System Replacement (CSR) program is needed for the fifty four (54) M4's. This fleet is approaching 23 years old and is showing its age with equipment reliability and availability trending downward.

CDOT has provided funding to MNR

for the replacement of the invertors on the M4's with a promise to fund the replacement of the PHW Automatic Train Control (ATC), the Heat Ground relay (HGR) and truck cabling as a "min" CSR Program. This will address the critical systems that affect safety and operations.

A larger more comprehensive CSR program will be required if this equipment is going to be in operation beyond 2015.

 

 

 

M6 Car Critical System Replacement (Project No. TBD)

 

 

 

The M6 fleet was manufactured between 1993 -1995. This fleet of forty-eight (48) cars is due a mid-life overhaul to maximize its useful life.

 

 

 

Shore Line East Fleet Replacement - Specification Development (Project No. TBD)

 

 

 

The Mafersa equipment was manufactured in 1991 and was purchased in 2004 from Virginia Railway Express (VRE). This equipment has undergone a rehabilitation/ modification project to make the equipment compatible with the existing fleet. This equipment has been in revenue service since 2005 and has served the SLE service very well.

The Department will need to replace the 14 locomotives and 33 Mafersa coaches and cab cars in the 2015-2017 timeframe.

 

According to Department plans, this equipment replacement is scheduled for 2017-2018.

 

 

 

Shore Line East Fleet Replacement (Project No. TBD)

 

 

 

The SLE fleet replacement project represents the Department going to bid for the manufacture and delivery of rail rolling stock equipment the Department will utilize in providing both intrastate and interstate commuter rail service operations.

 

Until the Department makes a determination on the type of equipment that will be required and the advancement of technologies within the rail equipment manufacturing industry, the costs vary.

All equipment will be mandated to meet federal standards in effect at time of specification and request for proposals.

 

 

With all of that in mind, I don't see the M4's and M6's moving to the NYS lines for a few reasons:

 

1. IF CDOT and MNRR can allocate the necessary funds for the M4's to undergo a CSR similar to what much of the M2 equipment underwent, and for the M6's to receive an overhaul, then I sincerely doubt these cars, which CDOT stakes a 33% ownership, will be rehabbed with Connecticut taxpayer funds and then reassigned on the Harlem and/or Hudson Lines for New York commuters to ride, especially not with the anticipated purchase of 30 new railcars to replace the existing M3A's.

2. The electrical components for AC traction power operation (pantographs, inverters, etc.) would become dead weight if the cars were to be powered exclusively via third rail, making for unnecessary current draw and an overall waste of functional equipment.

 

 

Now, if all options are exercised, that would 380 cars ordered...the current M2/4/6 fleet is 344 cars, with a few pairs retired. The Shore Line East fleet, which runs diesel under wire, is about 30 cars.

 

It would be too smart for ConnDOT to not consider combining the New Haven Line with Shore Line East, running some trains through to Old Saybrook and then to New London from Grand Central, which would also reduce the pool of cars required and leave some cars for service increases.

 

Shore Line East is currently operated by Amtrak, but what could happen is that Amtrak crews could take over the schedule at New Haven Union Station, with a scheduled 10-minute layover.

 

I would imagine that once most of the M8's are delivered, MNRR and SLE will pool equipment, provided that the 25 kV and ACSES testing is successful, and probably after the special third-rail shoes have been installed. I don't believe that SLE will have their own designated M8 fleet. By the time delivery of the M8's has been fulfilled, Amtrak will probably have ACSES functioning throughout the entire NEC, and MNRR will be working on or possibly even be operating it's own PTC system. At this point, I can see the Mafersa coaches retained for a big longer to provide additional SLE service, reassigned to the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield Line (if and when it becomes operational) or even to Waterbury branch service.

[Rutgers Tube]

I don't get it, so the M2 & M4 are going to be retired, but an M3A is older than M4. Shouldn't the M3A be retired first?

and on the LIRR I think they are retiring some M3's because that set sitting at hunterspoint does not look like its going to move anytime soon.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "Oldie but a goodie"?

 

Age is not necessarily the golden standard when it comes to retiring railroad rolling stock. Rather, a number of factors such as MDBF and overall reliability, availability of parts and components, federal regulations and especially FUNDING, to name a few, determine how long railcars remain in passenger service. Look at Transit's R32 cars compared to the others which were ordered later and retired sooner. Also, consider Amtrak's HHP-8 locomotives, which have been in service for less than 15 years and are scheduled to be replaced, along with the AEM-7DC and AEM-7AC equipment once the ACS-64 locomotives begin to arrive in 2013 or so. Optimally, total fleet replacement for a given equipment class, particularly EMU's, should occur every 30 +/-5 years, but again, each equipment class and each railroad face unique circumstances that can greatly alter the useful life of any equipment.