DC Screws Discount Bus Routes

[Forest Glen]

May 17, 2011 - In D.C.'s Chinatown neighborhood, buses leave to or arrive from New York City at almost any hour. These buses have grown in popularity, thanks in large part to their low prices. But starting this summer, D.C. can charge companies for using curbside space.

 

http://wamu.org/news/11/05/17/dctonyc_buses_may_get_more_expensive_with_new_regulations.php

 

I'm sure the fare increase will be marginal at best. Still, I think this sucks.

[traildriver]

May 17, 2011 - In D.C.'s Chinatown neighborhood, buses leave to or arrive from New York City at almost any hour. These buses have grown in popularity, thanks in large part to their low prices. But starting this summer, D.C. can charge companies for using curbside space.

 

http://wamu.org/news/11/05/17/dctonyc_buses_may_get_more_expensive_with_new_regulations.php

 

I'm sure the fare increase will be marginal at best. Still, I think this sucks.

What is your objection to these parasite operators paying their fair share of using public facilities, akin to motorists feeding parking meters, as pointed out in that arcticle?

It said it would only be a nominal fee, and would have only a small impact on their cheap fares.

 

I look at these companies as nothing better than street merchants setting up tables on public sidewalks to sell their sometimes counterfeit merchandise right in front of a legitimate, tax-paying, and law abiding business.....

[Shortline Bus]

What is your objection to these parasite operators paying their fair share of using public facilities, akin to motorists feeding parking meters, as pointed out in that arcticle?

It said it would only be a nominal fee, and would have only a small impact on their cheap fares.

 

I look at these companies as nothing better than street merchants setting up tables on public sidewalks to sell their sometimes counterfeit merchandise right in front of a legitimate, tax-paying, and law abiding business.....

 

 

If you want throw anyone under the bus(no pun intended lol ) besides the "Chinatown based' bootleg companies you also should do so for Coach USA and Greyhound as well.

 

Greyhound owns Bolt Bus and Coach USA owns Megabus.

 

FYI. I think Bolt Bus DC terminal has now moved to Union Station.

[FamousNYLover]

Even the MegaBus temporality moved to near Union Station as well, with free shuttle evening shuttle running between station and temporality bus stop.

[theaveragejoe]

If you want throw anyone under the bus(no pun intended lol ) besides the "Chinatown based' bootleg companies you also should do so for Coach USA and Greyhound as well.

 

Greyhound owns Bolt Bus and Coach USA owns Megabus.

 

FYI. I think Bolt Bus DC terminal has now moved to Union Station.

 

It would apply to Bolt Bus and Megabus if they use street loading

[theaveragejoe]

What is your objection to these parasite operators paying their fair share of using public facilities, akin to motorists feeding parking meters, as pointed out in that arcticle?

It said it would only be a nominal fee, and would have only a small impact on their cheap fares.

 

I look at these companies as nothing better than street merchants setting up tables on public sidewalks to sell their sometimes counterfeit merchandise right in front of a legitimate, tax-paying, and law abiding business.....

 

I fully agree with what you are saying

[553 Bridgeton]

What is your objection to these parasite operators paying their fair share of using public facilities, akin to motorists feeding parking meters, as pointed out in that arcticle?

It said it would only be a nominal fee, and would have only a small impact on their cheap fares.

 

I look at these companies as nothing better than street merchants setting up tables on public sidewalks to sell their sometimes counterfeit merchandise right in front of a legitimate, tax-paying, and law abiding business.....

 

Very well said! I rather spend money on a known company then some stupid bootleg company. These cheap companies are a disgrace to the legit companies following the rules. Everytime I do the 313 Philadephia those dum ass chinatown buses are always breaking the law. I hate even driving next to them.

 

IMO charge the hell out of them to use curbside space.

[traildriver]

If you want throw anyone under the bus(no pun intended lol ) besides the "Chinatown based' bootleg companies you also should do so for Coach USA and Greyhound as well.

 

Greyhound owns Bolt Bus and Coach USA owns Megabus.

 

FYI. I think Bolt Bus DC terminal has now moved to Union Station.

 

Greyhound operates mainly out of a network of legitimate terminals and depots that pay taxes, take buses off of public streets, and employ many.

 

They only created Bolt as a defensive attempt to provide a low-cost service to compete with these cut-rate operators and retain some of their market share. If those operators went away, or were forced into terminals as they are in Boston, I believe Greyhound would end Bolt as a subsidiary as well.

[Forest Glen]

And Greyhound would continue to provide sh*tty service

[JAzumah]

Very well said! I rather spend money on a known company then some stupid bootleg company. These cheap companies are a disgrace to the legit companies following the rules. Everytime I do the 313 Philadephia those dum ass chinatown buses are always breaking the law. I hate even driving next to them.

 

IMO charge the hell out of them to use curbside space.

 

Define bootleg.

[Forest Glen]

Don't mind him. He has an axe to grind with Megabus since they steal business from his employer.

[JAzumah]

Greyhound operates mainly out of a network of legitimate terminals and depots that pay taxes, take buses off of public streets, and employ many.

 

They only created Bolt as a defensive attempt to provide a low-cost service to compete with these cut-rate operators and retain some of their market share. If those operators went away, or were forced into terminals as they are in Boston, I believe Greyhound would end Bolt as a subsidiary as well.

 

Two Greyhound buses have failed roadside inspections in the NY/NJ area in the last two months. Those "cut rate" operators operate a newer fleet than Greyhound (yes, even the Chinese do). Terminals are not a mark of legitimacy. Most Greyhound bus stops are not at terminals. They are at gas stations, 7/11s, and wherever they can find competent vendors. BoltBus has the best hard product in the discount bus industry right now, but DC2NY, Vamoose, and Tripper Bus have matched them in their hard product quality, which is why they still exist. Vamoose even runs a 36 seat premium bus service alongside their regular product and they are now charging MORE than Greyhound because they feel their product is BETTER.

 

I recognize the industry titans hate this, but they are no longer going to control the market. The rates have been cut by cutting fat and overhead. When Boston forced Fung Wah and Lucky Star into South Station, they legitimized them, which was the absolute worst thing to do. You don't want to make your competition stop in the same terminal next to you. Otherwise, they can poach your passengers right there. Fung Wah is full on the weekends...absolutely stuffed.

[JAzumah]

Don't mind him. He has an axe to grind with Megabus since they steal business from his employer.

 

I'd be worried about Dattco. They are going nuclear right now. Providence and Cape Cod aren't shots over the bow in New England. Those are shots INTO the bow.

[553 Bridgeton]

Don't mind him. He has an axe to grind with Megabus since they steal business from his employer.

 

I was actually talking about the Chinatown Buses. Take it how you want.

 

If they want to use curbside space charge them, that simple

 

I said nothing about megabus and you want to it bring up. I mentioned chinatown. I could careless if megabus steals passengers or any other company for that matter. I still get paid so it doesnt matter to me.

[Cait Sith]

Don't mind him. He has an axe to grind with Megabus since they steal business from his employer.

 

I was actually talking about the Chinatown Buses. Take it how you want.

 

If they want to use curbside space charge them, that simple

 

I said nothing about megabus and you want to it bring up. I mentioned chinatown. I could careless if megabus steals passengers or any other company for that matter. I still get paid so it doesnt matter to me.

 

Here we go again......

[553 Bridgeton]

Here we go again......

 

What else is new....

[engineerboy6561]

I personally have no problem with Fung Wah, Lucky Star, etc although they're far too unsafe for me to ride regularly, because I believe that they're the driving force keeping the price down for intercity travel along the NEC. Assuming $3-$4 per gallon you'd be looking at around $40-$50 worth of gas if you drive the distance, and Amtrak charges $50 minimum for NEC service. Under those conditions, Greyhound, Peter Pan, etc. could easily charge $30-$35 one way and still grab most of the market share. When Fung Wah and Lucky Star start offering 3:45-4:00 between NYC and Boston for $15, the typical intercity companies need to lower their prices to compete. Such was most likely the reason for the birth of BoltBus, which will let me go to and from MIT for $30-35 round trip and give me high-class new buses with outlets and WiFi to boot. Thus, it's in the consumer's best interest to let Fung Wah continue to operate as is and not try to box it in or run it off the road.

[BZGuy]

Two Greyhound buses have failed roadside inspections in the NY/NJ area in the last two months.

 

Two in two months.....how many have the Chinese guys had? Or Megabus?

 

I recognize the industry titans hate this, but they are no longer going to control the market. The rates have been cut by cutting fat and overhead.

 

That's why we lost over 30 support staff in the last month. People want to pay bottom dollar, well be prepared for no ticket agents,dispatchers and ticket agencies at the smaller stops. It's getting to be a total race to the bottom. This is turning into the airline industry....the only thing is enough people haven't died yet to cause an uproar.

 

I'd be worried about Dattco. They are going nuclear right now. Providence and Cape Cod aren't shots over the bow in New England. Those are shots INTO the bow.

 

 

They are not gonna last long in Hyannis. There is only minimal passenger traffic that goes from New York all the way to Hyannis. They majority of our NY-Cape Cod passengers transfer in Bourne to go to Woods Hole and on the ferry to the Vineyard. Plus stops in Fall River and New Bedford help that line out quite a bit....something that Megabus and Dattco won't be doing. Also, people that transfer in Hyannis for the Outer Cape via Plymouth and Brockton won't be taking Megabus because P&B won't wait for transfers from Mega.....the only reason they wait for us is because we have a good working realationship with the B/Os over there.

 

Providence is a crap shoot. Both companies are making money and running packed schedules. I can say that even with Megabus/Dattco out there we are still carrying heavy and will continue to do so. Our schedules are more frequent,the buses are newer and the drivers are more experienced, people know that......the "Bonanza" drivers are among the best in the business and I'm proud to be one of them!

[BZGuy]

Thus, it's in the consumer's best interest to let Fung Wah continue to operate as is and not try to box it in or run it off the road.

 

It's actually not. Fung Wah and Lucky Star don't comply with the ADA act...try to ride one of their schedules as a ADA passenger!

 

Also FG and other are rejoicing over these guys....if GLI or PP go out of business who's gonna serve the Bridgeports,New Londons,and Newports of the Northeast. These guys are all about express service from major points....all these little stops will be in the dust if we go under!

[engineerboy6561]

It's actually not. Fung Wah and Lucky Star don't comply with the ADA act...try to ride one of their schedules as a ADA passenger!

 

Also FG and other are rejoicing over these guys....if GLI or PP go out of business who's gonna serve the Bridgeports,New Londons,and Newports of the Northeast. These guys are all about express service from major points....all these little stops will be in the dust if we go under!

 

If Fung Wah, Lucky Star, and similar companies ever take enough of the market share to potentially drive Greyhound or Peter Pan out entirely and force everyone to take them or nothing then I'd want them pruned back rather aggressively. I don't approve of how they operate and I'm not saying I want them to dominate the market, but right now they aren't. Right now, however, we have a pleasant equlibrium at which those of us who don't mind risking their necks spend $15 on a Fung Wah ticket and those who do spend $10-$17.50 on a BoltBus or MegaBus ticket and $23 on a Greyhound ticket. I think that the NEC is a populated and diverse enough corridor that there's room for everyone and (at least for now) we all indirectly benefit from the Chinatown buses holding prices down.

[Forest Glen]

It's actually not. Fung Wah and Lucky Star don't comply with the ADA act...try to ride one of their schedules as a ADA passenger!

 

Also FG and other are rejoicing over these guys....if GLI or PP go out of business who's gonna serve the Bridgeports,New Londons,and Newports of the Northeast. These guys are all about express service from major points....all these little stops will be in the dust if we go under!

 

That's not my problem. I'm not heading to some arbitrary town in Connecticut. I'm heading to DC, Boston, or Philly.

 

If Fung Wah, Lucky Star, and similar companies ever take enough of the market share to potentially drive Greyhound or Peter Pan out entirely and force everyone to take them or nothing then I'd want them pruned back rather aggressively. I don't approve of how they operate and I'm not saying I want them to dominate the market, but right now they aren't. Right now, however, we have a pleasant equlibrium at which those of us who don't mind risking their necks spend $15 on a Fung Wah ticket and those who do spend $10-$17.50 on a BoltBus or MegaBus ticket and $23 on a Greyhound ticket. I think that the NEC is a populated and diverse enough corridor that there's room for everyone and (at least for now) we all indirectly benefit from the Chinatown buses holding prices down.

 

Let's see: should I go to the Port Authority Terminal that's full of bums and take a perpetually late Greyhound bus or should I board a spacious Megabus and watch movies on my DVD player?

[traildriver]

That's not my problem. I'm not heading to some arbitrary town in Connecticut. I'm heading to DC, Boston, or Philly.

 

 

 

Let's see: should I go to the Port Authority Terminal that's full of bums and take a perpetually late Greyhound bus or should I board a spacious Megabus and watch movies on my DVD player?

 

Lets see: should I go and stand at some curbside in the elements and get soaked, or should I go and wait in the climate-controlled Port Authority Terminal with restrooms, on-site security, shops and restaurants, all conveniently inside? Full of bums? When was the last time you were at the PABT, 1985?

Greyhound and Peter Pan/Bonanza have outlets and Wifi available on more and more buses.

And spacious? Those double-deck Van Hool sardine cans that Megabus runs are impossible to even stand erect in.

[BZGuy]

That's not my problem. I'm not heading to some arbitrary town in Connecticut. I'm heading to DC, Boston, or Philly.

 

But there are people that have to go to those "arbitrary" towns. Take for example Danielson,CT. Bonanza is the only "public" transit people in that area have. 2 buses to Prov/Boston and 2 Hartford/NYC a day....and they USE it. If for some chance Bonanza was to go away, what options would those people have. You just can't discount a service because YOU don't use it. Isn't that what got you all bent out of shape in the express bus thread?

 

Peter Pan,Greyhound,Trailways,Concord Coach and P & B provide essential service thoughout the Northeast. Not every run can be express nor should it be.

[ML111]

The discussion we are having here in this thread fully represents where we are in this segment of intercity bus travel. The fact is that traveling by bus, particularly in the Northeast is much more convenient and affordable than just a decade ago.

 

The services mentioned (Mega, Bolt, PPB, P&B, Bonanaza, etc) all have their purposes and serve a particular passenger. Express services are what make the money and what people want when traveling the corridor cities. The terminal-based regional services serve the towns that feed the major cities. Even though there is an overlap between the two, to each its own.

 

There will always be a need for the terminal services, as evidenced by the money being poured into Greyhound Express in the Midwest and Northeast. You will always have the person who prefers the terminal over the curb, but you will also have the passenger who prefers the curb than the terminal. The other reason behind Express is of course to justify the terminal infrastructure to meet the needs of today's traveler (this is the first major overhaul of these services since the beginning of the PPB/GLI pool).

 

What the Chinatown buses, Mega, Bolt and other discount services help bring to light is that the market has grown and expanded from the traditional bus passenger (low income, single parents, low/middle class families) to techies, yuppies, and business people (mid-to-high middle class, well educated).

 

Today's market offers choices. We can debate all day over which is better, which is worst, and the reasons why. The true beneficiaries in the end are the customers, and they are the ones who pay our salaries at the end of the day.

[theaveragejoe]

The discussion we are having here in this thread fully represents where we are in this segment of intercity bus travel. The fact is that traveling by bus, particularly in the Northeast is much more convenient and affordable than just a decade ago.

 

The services mentioned (Mega, Bolt, PPB, P&B, Bonanaza, etc) all have their purposes and serve a particular passenger. Express services are what make the money and what people want when traveling the corridor cities. The terminal-based regional services serve the towns that feed the major cities. Even though there is an overlap between the two, to each its own.

 

There will always be a need for the terminal services, as evidenced by the money being poured into Greyhound Express in the Midwest and Northeast. You will always have the person who prefers the terminal over the curb, but you will also have the passenger who prefers the curb than the terminal. The other reason behind Express is of course to justify the terminal infrastructure to meet the needs of today's traveler (this is the first major overhaul of these services since the beginning of the PPB/GLI pool).

 

What the Chinatown buses, Mega, Bolt and other discount services help bring to light is that the market has grown and expanded from the traditional bus passenger (low income, single parents, low/middle class families) to techies, yuppies, and business people (mid-to-high middle class, well educated).

 

Today's market offers choices. We can debate all day over which is better, which is worst, and the reasons why. The true beneficiaries in the end are the customers, and they are the ones who pay our salaries at the end of the day.

 

I dont know if this is the case with Greyhound lines (USA) but Greyhound Canada makes more money off its parcel service (hauling freight on bus) then it does from passenger/charter service