mark1447 Posted June 4, 2011 Share #51 Posted June 4, 2011 I did it before with the Bx23 so I assume you can with the other ones Yes you can. You don't have to pay to get thru loop. The Northern and Southern terminal is where it starts and ends in the same place. Ive done it on the Bx24 and M35. Even the M60 bus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted June 4, 2011 Share #52 Posted June 4, 2011 I assure you that I could arrange an anti-farebeating program that would be very profitable. I would make millions of dollars and the MTA would not have to put in any extra cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted June 4, 2011 Share #53 Posted June 4, 2011 Yes you can. You don't have to pay to get thru loop. The Northern and Southern terminal is where it starts and ends in the same place. Ive done it on the Bx24 and M35. Even the M60 bus Ah yes, the M60...1 of the biggest examples where its done ...Except once in a while where the driver kicks everyone over at Delta Terminal and goes on a "layover". Seen it done before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 4, 2011 Share #54 Posted June 4, 2011 I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. If they can't afford it, then that means they shouldn't be riding to begin with. The system is already subsidized for those with limited funds, so how much more should we subsidize the system when some people refuse to pay simply because they don't want to? I think you are clearly overlooking the fact that there are some people that just don't want to pay and think they're entitled to a free ride because they don't see it as stealing, especially since they have others like myself who do pay, paying for them by way of increased fares, so I get to subsidize their fare not once by way of taxes, but twice by way of the fare. Overall your attitude has been that farebeating isn't a big deal and I really can't stand your thinking when that money could be used to restore lost bus service and improve the system. Then again there's a lot of things I don't get with the and I guess this will be one of them. I think the only time they're going to do something is if people get fedup and say f*ck it because at some point people that do pay are going to become sick of the farebeaters getting a free ride at their expense while their fares continue to increase as if we don't have expenses and need to live too. It's insane. :tdown: As far you saying that farebeating isn't a problem your constant insistance to point to stats that suggest that farebeating is low illustrates that you don't see it as a problem. What you fail to recognize is that if you foster a certain type of behaviour, over time more and more people will follow suit because they know that there will be no consequences for their actions, which puts the system in peril. You can argue that only a fraction of the (MTA)'s revenues come from the fare, but if a large percentage of folks suddenly stopped paying obviously there would be a problem. As it is right now, there is really not much more to cut in terms of services, nor is there much more room to raise fares, because we are reaching the breaking point. Yeah and on whose dime?? The city's taxes are already high enough, that's why people are leaving in droves, so you do that and keep raising taxes and soon there will be no one left to tax. You yourself admit that many students abuse the situation, so I don't see one ride making a big difference. Those same people will still look to abuse the system. The more you give those types of folks, the more they will take. I know you're trying to be practical and all, but that analogy is completely ridiculous. You cannot run a business based solely on how much money you make all of the time. You have to look at the overall picture and say to yourself, I may not make a profit in this case, but what is the overall implication of this decision not just now, but in the future as well. If every business looked at each and every transaction they made based on your analogy, a lot of them would probably be out of business. I know first hand because I don't always make the exact percentage that I want to make out of every project I undertake. Some projects I may lose on, but the overall outcome is what is important. In the long term, I will make up my losses and then some with repeat business from that client and referrals and so forth. To relate that back to the , addressing farebeating cannot be analyzed on a case by case basis, but rather what is the overall benefit for the system and for the riders? Yeah, maybe they only catch a few people trying to beat the system, but those few people may put the word out about the cracking down on farebeating and deter others from trying to beat the system. That won't show up on any stat either, but the whole point of having police around is to deter crime and stop from occurring in the first place. The goal is NOT to arrest people, but to deter them from committing theft, and other crime. I certainly hope that you don't analyze everything you do based simply on dollars and cents. :eek: I'm using 5 cents worth of electricity typing this. But wouldn't there be enough people caught during the day to "spread the word" that it wouldn't be worth trying to crack down at night? Aren't there more farebeaters during the day than at night? I assure you that I could arrange an anti-farebeating program that would be very profitable. I would make millions of dollars and the MTA would not have to put in any extra cash. What would you do? Would you just contract out a group of officers to stop farebeating and keep the money collected in fines for yourself (after paying for expenses, of course)? But then the MTA might as well do it themselves and keep the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 4, 2011 Share #55 Posted June 4, 2011 I'm using 5 cents worth of electricity typing this. B) But wouldn't there be enough people caught during the day to "spread the word" that it wouldn't be worth trying to crack down at night? Aren't there more farebeaters during the day than at night? Not really. The whole point of "deterring" folks is that they don't know when you'll be around. That is taught in enforcing these types of things. That's why the cops go undercover and show up at random subway stations at random times and notice my use of random several times. Think about it. If you knew that they didn't check at certain times, then you would just try to beat the system at the times that you felt that they aren't checking, which would then defeat the purpose. Quite frankly, I would say that farebeating is just as rampid if not more rampid during the night. Besides if a farebeater has enough balls to walk on the bus and not pay, what makes you think that they would care what time of day it is, especially if they don't feel like they're going to caught? Now FreshPond noted that they don't seem to check on the M15 SBS at certain times in the night, but some folks are so stupid, I doubt they even pay attention to the times when checkers come around. They have become so brazen and bold that some don't even care if they get caught and when it becomes an issue like that then something should be done. I personally can see the problem getting worse. The economy is still not recovering yet and more and more people are going to think that they have an excuse to farebeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of RedBirds Posted June 4, 2011 Share #56 Posted June 4, 2011 (Bx22) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted June 7, 2011 Share #57 Posted June 7, 2011 I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. If they can't afford it, then that means they shouldn't be riding to begin with. The system is already subsidized for those with limited funds, so how much more should we subsidize the system when some people refuse to pay simply because they don't want to? I think you are clearly overlooking the fact that there are some people that just don't want to pay and think they're entitled to a free ride because they don't see it as stealing, especially since they have others like myself who do pay, paying for them by way of increased fares, so I get to subsidize their fare not once by way of taxes, but twice by way of the fare. Overall your attitude has been that farebeating isn't a big deal and I really can't stand your thinking when that money could be used to restore lost bus service and improve the system. Then again there's a lot of things I don't get with the and I guess this will be one of them. I think the only time they're going to do something is if people get fedup and say f*ck it because at some point people that do pay are going to become sick of the farebeaters getting a free ride at their expense while their fares continue to increase as if we don't have expenses and need to live too. It's insane. :tdown: As far you saying that farebeating isn't a problem your constant insistance to point to stats that suggest that farebeating is low illustrates that you don't see it as a problem. What you fail to recognize is that if you foster a certain type of behaviour, over time more and more people will follow suit because they know that there will be no consequences for their actions, which puts the system in peril. You can argue that only a fraction of the (MTA)'s revenues come from the fare, but if a large percentage of folks suddenly stopped paying obviously there would be a problem. As it is right now, there is really not much more to cut in terms of services, nor is there much more room to raise fares, because we are reaching the breaking point. Yeah and on whose dime?? The city's taxes are already high enough, that's why people are leaving in droves, so you do that and keep raising taxes and soon there will be no one left to tax. You yourself admit that many students abuse the situation, so I don't see one ride making a big difference. Those same people will still look to abuse the system. The more you give those types of folks, the more they will take. I know you're trying to be practical and all, but that analogy is completely ridiculous. You cannot run a business based solely on how much money you make all of the time. You have to look at the overall picture and say to yourself, I may not make a profit in this case, but what is the overall implication of this decision not just now, but in the future as well. If every business looked at each and every transaction they made based on your analogy, a lot of them would probably be out of business. I know first hand because I don't always make the exact percentage that I want to make out of every project I undertake. Some projects I may lose on, but the overall outcome is what is important. In the long term, I will make up my losses and then some with repeat business from that client and referrals and so forth. To relate that back to the , addressing farebeating cannot be analyzed on a case by case basis, but rather what is the overall benefit for the system and for the riders? Yeah, maybe they only catch a few people trying to beat the system, but those few people may put the word out about the cracking down on farebeating and deter others from trying to beat the system. That won't show up on any stat either, but the whole point of having police around is to deter crime and stop from occurring in the first place. The goal is NOT to arrest people, but to deter them from committing theft, and other crime. I certainly hope that you don't analyze everything you do based simply on dollars and cents. :eek: I'm going to make both a blog and a post regarding where the DOE can get the money to fund the extra Student MetroCards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted June 7, 2011 Share #58 Posted June 7, 2011 The MOST comes from da hoods in the city ya know! In the Bronx pretty much the Bx6/Bx11/Bx19/Bx35/Bx36/Bx41/Bx42(Even the BX12+SBS) Gets hit with them. (Morrisania/Tremont/U Hts mainly) I use to stand next to the rear door and when people leave the bus i push/hold the door instead of pressing the tape so i can close it before any a$9holes make it in. Now a days i rarely do it because I don't care.. Ive caught lots of these farebeaters on Vids I make for Youtube. I would add the Northeast Bronx (especially the Bx28 and a few on the Bx31 as well) and the Bx3 in the West Bronx (since many students from Bronx CC use it to avoid walking uphill from the train). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtNovaBusRTS9369 Posted June 8, 2011 Share #59 Posted June 8, 2011 I'm going to make both a blog and a post regarding where the DOE can get the money to fund the extra Student MetroCards. The might as well make the fare chaper if they giong to do that. It isn't just the teens that do it adults do it as well. As mentioned earlier with adults farebeating the is missing out on some of the Million$ of money they could get that way they wouldn't be so far from closing deficit that they're in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twilson1160 Posted June 8, 2011 Share #60 Posted June 8, 2011 Any long buses in the bronx!!!:mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAzumah Posted June 9, 2011 Share #61 Posted June 9, 2011 What would you do? Would you just contract out a group of officers to stop farebeating and keep the money collected in fines for yourself (after paying for expenses, of course)? But then the MTA might as well do it themselves and keep the money. Close. I would use a crew of auxillary cops to do this. You have a plainclothes spotter with a van or two at a few checkpoints. The spotter would have a hidden digital camera that would be recording the farebeater as they beat the fare. At the checkpoint, the aux cops snatch the farebeaters off the bus. I would take 10% plus expenses and give the rest to the MTA. The recordings would be used as evidence at the TAB hearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubBus Posted June 9, 2011 Share #62 Posted June 9, 2011 Interesting... I actually went to Rikers as a kid. We were taken there on a class trip as sort of a "this is what happens if you go to jail lesson" and man that place is insane. They took all of us to an open cell and locked us in there for a few minutes so that we could see what it felt like. Talk about feeling claustrophobic. :eek: Then a few prisoners talked to us. All I kept thinking about was God, please don't let a riot break out in this damn place with me stuck in it. If I recall correctly my mother decided to come as well, not that that made me feel any safer, especially considering how young I was at the time. LOL There was this one crazy black guy locked up in the looney part of the jail I guess. He kept walking around and making tons of noise. :eek: Lol, reminds me of an episode of "The Boondocks"............, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 9, 2011 Share #63 Posted June 9, 2011 Lol, reminds me of an episode of "The Boondocks"............, lol LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Glen Posted June 9, 2011 Share #64 Posted June 9, 2011 If people had jobs and fares weren't ridiculous then they wouldn't have to farebeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted June 9, 2011 Share #65 Posted June 9, 2011 If people had jobs and fares weren't ridiculous then they wouldn't have to farebeat. Oh come on now. Farebeating didn't just start when the economy went south. It's been around since I could remember. Hell if you want to know something I even jumped a turnstile as a teenager once or twice, simply because I knew I could away with it and that's the key thing. More people will do it if they know that there are no consequences. Thinking back on it, it was a stupid thing to do, but I did because I was a teenager who was rebelling at the time against the established "order" so to speak. :cool: The thing is there is a serious problem because you've got what I would call "chronic farebeaters" out there and they live to do nothing but farebeat and don't think twice about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princelex Posted June 9, 2011 Share #66 Posted June 9, 2011 If people had jobs and fares weren't ridiculous then they wouldn't have to farebeat. Please, even if the fare were 5 cents and everybody had some kind of a job, SOMEONE would be cheap and beat the fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
via White Plains Road Posted June 9, 2011 Share #67 Posted June 9, 2011 If people had jobs and fares weren't ridiculous then they wouldn't have to farebeat. Ppl was beating the fare when they had jobs so what are you talking about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattTrain Posted June 13, 2011 Share #68 Posted June 13, 2011 It doesn't matter what the fares are, people will still beat the fare cold-hearted. Maybe a sharp increase in fines will deter fare beaters, but I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted June 13, 2011 Share #69 Posted June 13, 2011 It doesn't matter what the fares are, people will still beat the fare cold-hearted. Maybe a sharp increase in fines will deter fare beaters, but I don't know. Add to that a sharp increase in enforcers on the bus (preferably in the form of undercover plain-clothes officers in the backs of buses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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