the line with the most farebeaters is....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just a couple of points:

 

Any line that serves a school is going to have a lot of farebeating during school hours (especially in the afternoon), so you have to take that into consideraton.

 

I think a better way of measuring farebeating is as a percentage, rather than as a raw number. According to an article I read (I think it was after the Edwin Thomas incident), the B46 gets roughly 3,000 farebeaters per day, but its total ridership is over 50,000.

 

I don't see the need to analyze those points though. No one is interested in why, nor is there is any need to justify it, especially when we've already discussed those aspects previously. The topic at hand is which line has the most farebeating.

[checkmatechamp13]

I don't see the need to analyze those points though. No one is interested in why, nor is there is any need to justify it, especially when we've already discussed those aspects previously. The topic at hand is which line has the most farebeating.

 

But it is relevant in the sense that obviously, high ridership lines are going to have more farebeaters.

 

For example, the B46 gets 3,000 farebeaters per day (it probably gets more, but lets just say it gets 3,000). The S54's ridership is 2,100, but its main clientele are students. Percentage-wise, the S54 probably has more farebeaters simply because there aren't many paying customers on the line (even students with Student MetroCards will often farebeat if they see everybody else doing it), but in raw numbers, it has fewer farebeaters.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

But it is relevant in the sense that obviously, high ridership lines are going to have more farebeaters.

 

For example, the B46 gets 3,000 farebeaters per day (it probably gets more, but lets just say it gets 3,000). The S54's ridership is 2,100, but its main clientele are students. Percentage-wise, the S54 probably has more farebeaters simply because there aren't many paying customers on the line (even students with Student MetroCards will often farebeat if they see everybody else doing it), but in raw numbers, it has fewer farebeaters.

 

Well, yeah, of course, but I think that's pretty evident.

[B35 via Church]

Does the number, or the % of farebeaters one route gets over the other, really matter?

 

The fact that we're mentioning any routes in here, isn't a good thing...

 

I don't care what the %'s are, regarding this...

This is one of those things where, the higher the (whatever the) number is, the worse off things are....

regardless if it's a high, average, or low ridership line...

 

 

The only stat I'd be interested in, regarding farebeating.... is one of, the number ZERO

[checkmatechamp13]

Does the number, or the % of farebeaters one route gets over the other, really matter?

 

The fact that we're mentioning any routes in here, isn't a good thing...

 

I don't care what the %'s are, regarding this...

This is one of those things where, the higher the (whatever the) number is, the worse off things are....

regardless if it's a high, average, or low ridership line...

 

 

The only stat I'd be interested in, regarding farebeating.... is one of, the number ZERO

 

It does matter considering the title of the thread is "the line with the most farebeaters is..."

 

And what is the point of starting this thread if nobody wants to hear that certain lines have farebeating problems?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It does matter considering the title of the thread is "the line with the most farebeaters is..."

 

And what is the point of starting this thread if nobody wants to hear that certain lines have farebeating problems?

 

The point was to list which lines have the most farebeaters. Simple as that. We already know that certain lines have farebeating problems and why to some degree. As I said before that was discussed in other threads, so it isn't necessary to repeat it. You're just trying to point it out because you don't think it's that big of a deal, as a way to justify farebeating. I don't care who is farebeating. It is inexcusable and unacceptable. You either board with your appropriate pass or pay the fare. Not too hard of a concept to grasp. And I'm not talking about malfunctioning Metrocards either. I'm talking about people who purposely look to beat the system at other people's expense. It's the equivalent of someone picking my pockets and stealing the money out of it, just not directly.

 

The problem is folks don't see farebeating as stealing. A lot of them that farebeat wouldn't steal from a store, but they are comfortable walking on the bus and not paying as if they are owed a free ride. It's the sense of self-entitlement that annoys me the most, more so than the not paying thing. It's like what makes you so damn better than everyone else that you don't have to pay, but everyone else does?? :mad:

 

This is why I get irritated with the because by not doing anything about it, they are essentially sending the message that farebeating isn't a big deal and it is. It is depriving the system of funds that it should have that could be used for other things that are needed, but folks don't look at it that way.

[B35 via Church]

It does matter considering the title of the thread is "the line with the most farebeaters is..."

 

And what is the point of starting this thread if nobody wants to hear that certain lines have farebeating problems?

 

Seriously now.....

You're the only one in this discussion so far, worried about numbers.

 

Your first statement has squat to do w/ the second btw, if the first statement is your argument...

We ARE mentioning certain lines that have farebeating problems... what are you talkin about...

 

We're sayin the B46 has the highest amt. of farebeaters....

Who cares that there are _______ farebeaters on the B46...

 

You chose the wrong topic this time to worry about stats...

[East New York]

LOL I wish I didn't have to name any of them believe me.

 

Man NOTHING beats the B46. You will not see me try to argue with you about THAT. LOL

 

I personally can't ever remember being on a B46 and not see someone hold those back doors. Especially during rush periods!

 

But it is relevant in the sense that obviously, high ridership lines are going to have more farebeaters.

 

For example, the B46 gets 3,000 farebeaters per day (it probably gets more, but lets just say it gets 3,000). The S54's ridership is 2,100, but its main clientele are students. Percentage-wise, the S54 probably has more farebeaters simply because there aren't many paying customers on the line (even students with Student MetroCards will often farebeat if they see everybody else doing it), but in raw numbers, it has fewer farebeaters.

 

As B35 stated above, this isn't really a good time to cite percentages. Those are only estimated numbers. I know for a fact that on a hot July summer Friday evening, there could easily be 5,000 farebeaters.

 

So we have to look at the overall picture here. At more than an estimated 730,000 annual farebeaters, the B46 easily rivals the S74's annual paying passenger totals.

[Amtrak7]

Do we have a stat of total farebeaters in the entire system per year? If so, the number of farebeaters per route *should* be able to be predicted by considering:

 

a) Ridership in comparison to total bus daily ridership

Average income per capita of the neighborhoods the bus travels through in comparison with the median income for NYC

c) Ridership patterns/route type (i.e. farebeating will be less at St George because nobody's getting off at the same time as passengers get on, leaving the back door closed)

d) Student ridership as a percentage of average daily ridership

 

Of course it's not perfect, there will be special cases like the Q100 at Rikers, the B42 with the in-system transfer, SBS routes, etc.

 

The percentage of farebeaters in comparison to paying customers will differ for every route and isn't really a good statistic, unless you're looking for a median.

[JAzumah]

I suspect farebeaters are undercounted. This is why service has been cut on certain routes. The drivers do not count farebeaters as riders (which is logical). The problem is easy to solve and they used to do it on the B46. An officer would board on the route and yank farebeaters off the bus into a waiting police van.

[LRG]

Ride the S55 and S56 during school hours and so many kids will say that they don't have their MetroCards that it's not even funny. Hell, one B/O I know just tells the kids to keep it moving and not even bother collecting the fares whether they have their cards or not because it takes up too much time.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I suspect farebeaters are undercounted. This is why service has been cut on certain routes. The drivers do not count farebeaters as riders (which is logical). The problem is easy to solve and they used to do it on the B46. An officer would board on the route and yank farebeaters off the bus into a waiting police van.

 

If this is the case then why have so many other people argued that it is too costly to implement??

[LRG]

Randall's island is comprised of psych wards & bums/homeless.....

 

few times I rode the M35 loop (don't know if you can do that anymore).... I commend any b/o that drives that route... they are worse than rambunctious schoolkids at times.... and I'm not just referring to just the boisterousness....

 

The M35 behaves just like the Bx24 and the B74...it's those bus routes that you can ride from its layover terminal to the destination it loops around and back to the layover terminal, but I don't know if you can do that on a single fare, though.

[checkmatechamp13]

I suspect farebeaters are undercounted. This is why service has been cut on certain routes. The drivers do not count farebeaters as riders (which is logical). The problem is easy to solve and they used to do it on the B46. An officer would board on the route and yank farebeaters off the bus into a waiting police van.

 

The thing about some farebeaters is that they are just people who are too lazy to walk, and they are only going on for a few stops. In that case, you can't really count them as riders because of the short distance they were riding.

 

By the way, if the bus driver said that it is alright and just let them by, would the police officer still take them into the van?

 

If this is the case then why have so many other people argued that it is too costly to implement??

 

I don't think anybody's really using that argument. It might be valid during low-ridership periods (at 3AM, you're not going to catch enough farebeaters to recover the costs of the van and officer).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The thing about some farebeaters is that they are just people who are too lazy to walk, and they are only going on for a few stops. In that case, you can't really count them as riders because of the short distance they were riding.

 

By the way, if the bus driver said that it is alright and just let them by, would the police officer still take them into the van?

 

 

 

I don't think anybody's really using that argument.

 

 

Uhhh, you yourself have, as has Jazumah. The argument has been that the monies spent to implement it isn't worth it since they would spend more than they lose and also, that farebeating isn't that big of a problem, even though it's been stated that farebeaters are grossly undercounted. Now you're suddenly backtracking on that statement?? :confused:

 

Also, what does the fact of how many blocks they're going matter? I take buses for one block sometimes and guess what, I pay. I didn't know there was a requirement that said that if someone is paying $2.25 that they had to ride for "X" amount of blocks in order to be considered a rider??? $2.25 is still $2.25 regardless.

 

 

I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it behind because quite frankly it makes no sense if you're as broke as the claims to be. They would rather slash service and punish those who do pay than address the problem.

[checkmatechamp13]

Uhhh, you yourself have, as has Jazumah. The argument has been that the monies spent to implement it isn't worth it since they would spend more than they lose and also, that farebeating isn't that big of a problem, even though it's been stated that farebeaters are grossly undercounted. Now you're suddenly backtracking on that statement?? :confused:

 

Also, what does the fact of how many blocks they're going matter? I take buses for one block sometimes and guess what, I pay. I didn't know there was a requirement that said that if someone is paying $2.25 that they had to ride for "X" amount of blocks in order to be considered a rider??? $2.25 is still $2.25 regardless.

 

 

I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it behind because quite frankly it makes no sense if you're as broke as the claims to be. They would rather slash service and punish those who do pay than address the problem.

 

When did I say it would cost more money than it saves?

 

I know they are undercounted, but that still doesn't make it that big of a deal. It's a small difference, such as the difference between 3 and 4% (that's the argument I've used)

 

I'm using that argument (of riding short distances) for farebeaters, not riders who pay. It's basically the equivalent of them walking, since it is a short distance and the MTA didn't get any money from them.

 

The reason why they're doing it is that the realize that some of the farebeaters truly can't afford the fare. Of course, I've seen plenty of students get on with headphones in their ears and say "I don't have a MetroCard"

 

I think that, the Student MetroCard program should be expanded a little to give every student a Student MetroCard with 1 ride (the City of NY would be the one paying). The logic is that they are going to school, and the Student MetroCard program already saves the city a lot of money.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When did I say it would cost more money than it saves?

 

I know they are undercounted, but that still doesn't make it that big of a deal. It's a small difference, such as the difference between 3 and 4% (that's the argument I've used)

 

I'm using that argument (of riding short distances) for farebeaters, not riders who pay.

 

The reason why they're doing it is that the realize that some of the farebeaters truly can't afford the fare.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. If they can't afford it, then that means they shouldn't be riding to begin with. The system is already subsidized for those with limited funds, so how much more should we subsidize the system when some people refuse to pay simply because they don't want to? I think you are clearly overlooking the fact that there are some people that just don't want to pay and think they're entitled to a free ride because they don't see it as stealing, especially since they have others like myself who do pay, paying for them by way of increased fares, so I get to subsidize their fare not once by way of taxes, but twice by way of the fare.

 

Overall your attitude has been that farebeating isn't a big deal and I really can't stand your thinking when that money could be used to restore lost bus service and improve the system. Then again there's a lot of things I don't get with the and I guess this will be one of them. I think the only time they're going to do something is if people get fedup and say f*ck it because at some point people that do pay are going to become sick of the farebeaters getting a free ride at their expense while their fares continue to increase as if we don't have expenses and need to live too. It's insane. :tdown:

 

As far you saying that farebeating isn't a problem your constant insistance to point to stats that suggest that farebeating is low illustrates that you don't see it as a problem. What you fail to recognize is that if you foster a certain type of behaviour, over time more and more people will follow suit because they know that there will be no consequences for their actions, which puts the system in peril. You can argue that only a fraction of the (MTA)'s revenues come from the fare, but if a large percentage of folks suddenly stopped paying obviously there would be a problem. As it is right now, there is really not much more to cut in terms of services, nor is there much more room to raise fares, because we are reaching the breaking point.

 

 

I think that, the Student MetroCard program should be expanded a little to give every student a Student MetroCard with 1 ride (the City of NY would be the one paying). The logic is that they are going to school, and the Student MetroCard program already saves the city a lot of money.

 

Yeah and on whose dime?? The city's taxes are already high enough, that's why people are leaving in droves, so you do that and keep raising taxes and soon there will be no one left to tax. You yourself admit that many students abuse the situation, so I don't see one ride making a big difference. Those same people will still look to abuse the system. The more you give those types of folks, the more they will take.

 

I don't think anybody's really using that argument. It might be valid during low-ridership periods (at 3AM, you're not going to catch enough farebeaters to recover the costs of the van and officer).

 

I know you're trying to be practical and all, but that analogy is completely ridiculous. You cannot run a business based solely on how much money you make all of the time. You have to look at the overall picture and say to yourself, I may not make a profit in this case, but what is the overall implication of this decision not just now, but in the future as well. If every business looked at each and every transaction they made based on your analogy, a lot of them would probably be out of business. I know first hand because I don't always make the exact percentage that I want to make out of every project I undertake. Some projects I may lose on, but the overall outcome is what is important. In the long term, I will make up my losses and then some with repeat business from that client and referrals and so forth. To relate that back to the , addressing farebeating cannot be analyzed on a case by case basis, but rather what is the overall benefit for the system and for the riders? Yeah, maybe they only catch a few people trying to beat the system, but those few people may put the word out about the cracking down on farebeating and deter others from trying to beat the system. That won't show up on any stat either, but the whole point of having police around is to deter crime and stop from occurring in the first place. The goal is NOT to arrest people, but to deter them from committing theft, and other crime. I certainly hope that you don't analyze everything you do based simply on dollars and cents. :eek:

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I go to Randall's pretty frequently, my beef is that it reeks like anything. It's got a psych ward, a sewage treatment plant, and a sewage generation facility (Daily News printing offices).

 

I was gonna take the M35 the other day but I caught a ride from a friend, guess that was a good choice. Looked perfectly docile when I saw it though, course I'm sure the customers were happy to get a free fare!

 

--

 

I always get on the M2 in Harlem and take it to 14th or so, and I can tell you that bus is a different animal when you get below 86th street. I was on there the other day and some guy tries to sneak in the back, all the people on the bus are suddenly model citizens and start yelling at the guy and push him out the back. Wouldn't happen on 125th, I can say that. Pretty funny though, I just sat and watched the 'uprising' occur...

 

Yeah, I ride the M1, M2, M3 buses regularly from my office to and from Union Square and there are a lot of working professionals on the bus such as myself and you have the tourists and the older folks. My only complaint of late is that the buses have been rather smelly and rank especially by the back door as if "someone" is relieving themselves back there. MVH needs to get it together in department. :mad: The M1 I had today going southbound was good and had good AC. Coming back I missed an M2 and B/O refused to open the door to let me on even though he blew by the stop. :mad: An M1 showed up shortly after and didn't take too long. Bus was decent but could've been cleaner IMO.

[MHV9218]

Please, watch the Nazi Banksters Crimes Ripple Effect at http://jforjustice.co.uk/banksters

[mark1447]

The MOST comes from da hoods in the city ya know!

 

In the Bronx pretty much the Bx6/Bx11/Bx19/Bx35/Bx36/Bx41/Bx42(Even the BX12+SBS) Gets hit with them. (Morrisania/Tremont/U Hts mainly)

 

I use to stand next to the rear door and when people leave the bus i push/hold the door instead of pressing the tape so i can close it before any a$9holes make it in. Now a days i rarely do it because I don't care..

 

Ive caught lots of these farebeaters on Vids I make for Youtube.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I always notice that smell, but it's only ever on NGs for me. Never had that smell on an OG, unless we're thinking of something different, but NGs out of MHV frequently smell like a bathroom. Something to do with the chemicals on the plastic floor with the mix of grime, I think, but it's unpleasant.

 

/side note/ Goes on my list of reasons for preferring the OG over the NG, which starts with the fact the NGs are the only buses in the fleet with full plastic seats, which just feels cheap and non-durable. Then again, I'm finding that if I sit on the corner seat (last row, left or right side) on an OG, I can't fit without my knees banging into the seats facing sideways in front. If that's hard to picture, basically I can't fit my legs into the corner seats, which is a problem... I'm not unbelievably tall and I don't have disproportionately long legs either, so I can't even imagine how unpleasant it'd be for a fellow over 6'5" on one of those. That was never a problem for me on the RTS, or the O5, for that matter. //side note/

 

Interesting... Yeah I agree about the unpleasant smell on the NGs out of MVH. Always smell like that. And as far as the seats go, I wouldn't even dare sit in those last rows in the corner. I'm 6'4" so that is just not happening, aside from the fact those corner areas are filthy anyway. I like the areas in the back where I can sit and cross my leg and do people watching and such or check e-mails on the Blackberry, plus I need a spot for Whole Foods bag. What I amazed by though is how many wheelchairs and elderly use the Madison Avenue buses in particular. They were very wise to just use low floor buses on those lines because the RTS IMO are not the best for those lines for those reasons alone.

[error46146]

Buses should be free. Then we won't have to worry about farebeating.

 

Didn't bloomberg promise us free crosstown buses? I'm still waiting....

[akkuma2k]

The point was to list which lines have the most farebeaters. Simple as that. We already know that certain lines have farebeating problems and why to some degree. As I said before that was discussed in other threads, so it isn't necessary to repeat it. You're just trying to point it out because you don't think it's that big of a deal, as a way to justify farebeating. I don't care who is farebeating. It is inexcusable and unacceptable. You either board with your appropriate pass or pay the fare. Not too hard of a concept to grasp. And I'm not talking about malfunctioning Metrocards either. I'm talking about people who purposely look to beat the system at other people's expense. It's the equivalent of someone picking my pockets and stealing the money out of it, just not directly.

 

The problem is folks don't see farebeating as stealing. A lot of them that farebeat wouldn't steal from a store, but they are comfortable walking on the bus and not paying as if they are owed a free ride. It's the sense of self-entitlement that annoys me the most, more so than the not paying thing. It's like what makes you so damn better than everyone else that you don't have to pay, but everyone else does?? :mad:

 

This is why I get irritated with the because by not doing anything about it, they are essentially sending the message that farebeating isn't a big deal and it is. It is depriving the system of funds that it should have that could be used for other things that are needed, but folks don't look at it that way.

 

very well put my friend! :tup:

[Fresh Pond]

The M35 behaves just like the Bx24 and the B74...it's those bus routes that you can ride from its layover terminal to the destination it loops around and back to the layover terminal, but I don't know if you can do that on a single fare, though.

 

I did it before with the Bx23 so I assume you can with the other ones