A guest columnist in Daily News calls for 'light rail' to replace the 2nd Ave Subway

[Fresh Pond]

It would work in NYC, but it just won't work in the East Side especially with the horrible overcrowding of the sole Lexington Avenue Line.

 

Funny how you say that but just 2-3 posts up you say this...

 

Trust me it won't work in NYC. The drivers in this city are crazy.

[Tokkemon]

Trams/light rail through busy areas:

 

Milan

Paris

Barcelona

Rome

Prague

Stuttgart

 

Of which none of those are even close to the density of Manhattan.

[Roadcruiser1]

Now I was primarily talking about Manhattan and the dense boroughs. As I have had mentioned it would work on Staten Island, but it won't work in Manhattan. Maybe it might work in Eastern Queens as well.

[553 Bridgeton]

The point being, one subway car can fit a hell of a lot more than a train of your beloved light rail cars could ever dream of...

 

Also, overhead lines are illegal in Manhattan and that at-grade running rail in the street? Ha.

 

This isn't New ****ing Jersey.

 

This has nothing to do with it being New Jersey. The point is Light Rail cars like on the riverline wouldn't require overhead lines. Im not with or against it, im just saying

 

Trams/light rail through busy areas:

 

Milan

Paris

Barcelona

Rome

Prague

Stuttgart

 

Those cities are nowhere near as dense as nyc.

[Nova RTS 9147]

This is a rehash of the (MTA)'s plan from 1999. It wasn't a good idea then either.

[Nexis4Jersey]

This has nothing to do with it being New Jersey. The point is Light Rail cars like on the riverline wouldn't require overhead lines. Im not with or against it, im just saying

 

 

 

Those cities are nowhere near as dense as nyc.

 

Hong Kong and Tokyo have Trams , and so does London and Paris ,and Melbourne...

[Pablo M 201]

Of which none of those are even close to the density of Manhattan.

 

This has nothing to do with it being New Jersey. The point is Light Rail cars like on the riverline wouldn't require overhead lines. Im not with or against it, im just saying

 

 

 

Those cities are nowhere near as dense as nyc.

 

Sure they are. Think smack dab in the center of those cities. Don't think of it as size compared to New York, that's just silly. In terms of business, yeah those systems are no joke when they go through the center of the city.

[Roadcruiser1]

Light rail won't work in Manhattan also due to the fact that NIMBY's would protest about how the line would cut up their avenue.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Light rail won't work in Manhattan also due to the fact that NIMBY's would protest about how the line would cut up their avenue.

 

Now your just making excuses , blah blah blah....they rip up the streets all the time. Most Japanese cities have LRT and there denser then NYC....so NYC can have LRT.....and one day Jersey City will be more dense the NYC. Philly has and plans for LRT , so does DC and Boston there just dense as NYC in certain areas where the line cuts through.

[SI Subway]

Honestly, I think that light rail should be considered if the is never completed past phase 3. Light rail wouldn't be a, per se, adequate solution, but it's better than nothing and an overcrowded . It would work until enough money is built up to complete the .

[Tokkemon]

You guys have to remember too that America has a systemic car culture problem. No matter how much more efficient a rail system is, America will love its cars more. Japan doesn't have this problem. That's why they have SO much rail.

[Nexis4Jersey]

You guys have to remember too that America has a systemic car culture problem. No matter how much more efficient a rail system is, America will love its cars more. Japan doesn't have this problem. That's why they have SO much rail.

 

The Coastal NE does not have a car culture issue , most ppl are in favor of it....the issue is the $$$ and lack of action.... But between the Transit expansions and Smart Streets program ppl are for them....they are more for Transit then HSR. The Current Rail system is half build , once they full build out , more ppl with move towards Transit. The Current system has to many gaps and some areas bad service.

[Tokkemon]

NYC is the only city with a majority of transit riders in the entire nation. Car culture is systemic to all of the nation.

[Nexis4Jersey]

NYC is the only city with a majority of transit riders in the entire nation. Car culture is systemic to all of the nation.

 

We i sugguest you rethink your views....the NE has the highest transit ridership in the Nation....most systems do at least. DC Metro / Buses get 1.1 Million daily Riders , so does Philly and Boston. And the smaller systems in between get a decent amount. Improve service and build more lines and people will come....

[Tokkemon]

We i sugguest you rethink your views....the NE has the highest transit ridership in the Nation....most systems do at least. DC Metro / Buses get 1.1 Million daily Riders , so does Philly and Boston. And the smaller systems in between get a decent amount. Improve service and build more lines and people will come....

 

Indeed. But NYC is the only one rail-dependent.

 

Though I'm thinking more of the sociological consequence of the automobile. Everyone in America loooooves their car. You don't see massive groups of bikers like you do in China, or massive amounts of train commuters like in Germany. It's a car culture, and that's what people will prefer, always, until that mindset it changed.

[Grand Concourse]

whats the difference between a light rail system and their select bus service, both are going to be at the mercy of traffic lights along 1st and 2nd avenue. The buses are an even cheaper plan because they don't need anything built, just a bus lane painted on the road.

 

Exactly, at least with a bus you can move it around an obstruction on the road, LRTs would be at the mercy of the traffic. the only way a LRT would work is if it was built above ground, but then people will complain about an 'el' on the street.

To me an LRT would be a waste. The SBS does what an LRT would do, just on rubber wheels on paved road.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Indeed. But NYC is the only one rail-dependent.

 

Though I'm thinking more of the sociological consequence of the automobile. Everyone in America loooooves their car. You don't see massive groups of bikers like you do in China, or massive amounts of train commuters like in Germany. It's a car culture, and that's what people will prefer, always, until that mindset it changed.

 

We don't have a choice , but giving the choice and overtime ppl with switch to Transit....we just have to wait a few decades... Car usage in Europe is slightly lower then the US , but is still high. There balanced over there...and the NE will hopefully be like that in a few decades... Over Rail network in this region needs to hit key Job areas and population growth areas.... More East - West and connectors are needed....

[traildriver]

I agree that on Second Avenue at least, the new subway is the proper solution to the problem.

Light rail is best when it can utilize city streets when downtown, and then revert to a private right of way in suburban or rural locations, for faster, traffic-free running. And I believe you can run a substreet electric conduit for light rail cars thru a slot instead of trolley wires if that is an issue. While you can use SBS similarly by building dedicated busways, the light rail could actually use longer trains than just two cars if necessary.

[Roadcruiser1]

Won't work. We already see residents on Second Avenue complaining about the loss of their parking spaces and businesses.

[Shortline Bus]

Won't work. We already see residents on Second Avenue complaining about the loss of their parking spaces and businesses.

 

 

Agreed. Even though i am a light rail supporter for NYC, it should be bulit IMO on a limited case-case basis more suited for the outerboros more than anything.

 

For 2nd Ave subway even if just a small portion opens between 63rd and

96th, it would be a big help since residents on Upper East Side including Yorkville would for 1st time have a direct train to West Midtown and rest of the city via either Broadway or 6th Ave(i know barring a change the SAS is a Bway route)

 

Not to mention take off crowding on bus routes like the (M15) (M86) (M31) and (M79).

[Roadcruiser1]

I see light rail working on Staten Island since you have empty land parallel to the Staten Island Expressway, you have plenty of lanes to work with on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge along with the Bayonne Bridge, and you have empty land next to the West Shore Expressway. Thus light rail is feasible on Staten Island. It is also possible to elevate the light rail on elevated sections of expressway on the Island. It's also less dense, and you are building on almost empty land so no NIMBY's. Also not to mention you have the abandoned North Shore Line which would work if it's light rail too, but it's better as an SIR extension so it would be compatible with the SIR itself. This is just an example.

 

Now let's put light rail on Second Avenue. We will see parking spaces being taken, and businesses complaining about the wires. You might have pedestrians and drivers complaining about their spaces also being take away to this light rail line. In the end it just won't work. NIMBY's will halt the progress. You see how they are complaining about the construction of the Second Avenue Subway as well. In a place called Manhattan people will kill you if you propose anything they don't like.

[Shortline Bus]

Maybe you can put a light rail/HOV Bus lane for the new planned Gotheals Bridge. However i don't think you can ever create one for the VZ Bridge as it would tons of $$$ and create traffic nightmare/anger from drivers.

 

 

 

I see light rail working on Staten Island since you have empty land parallel to the Staten Island Expressway, you have plenty of lanes to work with on the Verrazano Narrows Bridge along with the Bayonne Bridge, and you have empty land next to the West Shore Expressway. Thus light rail is feasible on Staten Island. It is also possible to elevate the light rail on elevated sections of expressway on the Island. It's also less dense, and you are building on almost empty land so no NIMBY's. Also not to mention you have the abandoned North Shore Line which would work if it's light rail too, but it's better as an SIR extension so it would be compatible with the SIR itself. This is just an example.

 

Now let's put light rail on Second Avenue. We will see parking spaces being taken, and businesses complaining about the wires. You might have pedestrians and drivers complaining about their spaces also being take away to this light rail line. In the end it just won't work. NIMBY's will halt the progress. You see how they are complaining about the construction of the Second Avenue Subway as well. In a place called Manhattan people will kill you if you propose anything they don't like.

[Roadcruiser1]

Well you could do it when they plan and start the construction of a pedestrian and bike lane on the VNB. Close two lanes on the upper level to traffic permanently, and put light rail up there. They are also proposing to put a pedestrian lane on the Bayonne Bridge, and to put two light rail tracks as well.

[Shortline Bus]

Well you could do it when they plan and start the construction of a pedestrian and bike lane on the VNB. Close two lanes on the upper level to traffic permanently, and put light rail up there. They are also proposing to put a pedestrian lane on the Bayonne Bridge, and to put two light rail tracks as well.

 

 

Oh yes. You realize the VZ bridge is used 7 days a week 24/7. That bridge can already sometimes be a parking lot not just during rush hours either right?

The VZ Bridge is a huge and important truck/commerical route that brings in products i.e food, etc connecting Brooklyn/rest of the city and LI with SI and New Jersey.

 

Not to mention the NIMBY's will be happy to bring a lawsuit of losing even just 1/2 a lane of traffic.

 

Not a good idea Roadcrusier.

[Roadcruiser1]

Well then how would you connect such a line to Brooklyn where people can transfer to the subway. You can build a subway extension, but it seems like light rail would work on the Island for now as the is broke and already has the Second Avenue Subway on it's hands. I thought you could have these lines operated by the Port Authority which seems to have plentiful cash right now. Besides I do know Staten Islanders that complain about the bus services. It seems like light rail would ease their trip to Brooklyn, and New Jersey no doubt. Plus it would allow the transfer to the subway which I pointed out, and that would allow them to go to Manhattan as well.