GreatOne2k Posted July 24, 2011 Share #1 Posted July 24, 2011 Bx1 Reroute service from Grand Concourse between E 151 St and E 165 St. Turn off of Grand Concourse onto E 151 St, on E 151 St into River Av. Turn off of River Av onto E 165 Street, turn off of E 165 Street, back onto Grand Concourse. Bx2 Reroute service from Grand Concourse between E 149 St and E 165 St Stay on East 149 Street until River Avenue, turn onto River Avenue, stay on River Avenue until East 165 Street. Turn on East 165 Street, onto Grand Concourse. Bx1 LIMITED makes local stops between East 149 Street and East 165 Street. Bx13 Extended down River Av, to E 149 St, turn on E 149 St, end at 149 St GC. The Bx13 is the most expensive option of the three. The Bx1 or Bx2 should run to the Gateway Mall along with the Bx13 to make service frequent so people are less likely to walk. This also gives bus service to the Yankees - E 153rd Street MNR station. This also makes the routes (Bx1 and Bx2) less redundant. The Bx2 is a better choice to service more of River Avenue since it is already on E 149 St where as the Bx1 would have to turn off of Grand Concourse. Bx2 can be more of a E 149 St Crosstown. Bx13 E 161 St extension would have to be eliminated, or exist as an alternate branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 24, 2011 Share #2 Posted July 24, 2011 Great one i agree it's a disgrace why Bronx Gateway has not had bus service there yet. With that said, the BX1 and BX2 are both already long routes that do not need to re-routed to serve there. The BX13 and maybe the BX6 are both still the best choice to serve BX Gateway Mall IMO. And for a second route i would suggest 'short turn' BX19 buses. In other words if and when the BX19 get 'limited stop' service, local BX19 could terminate at the Bronx Gateway Mall. That my takes. As far as maybe 1-2 other South Bronx area buses i think somone like COTB16 would be the best one to ask. Bx1 Reroute service from Grand Concourse between E 151 St and E 165 St. Turn off of Grand Concourse onto E 151 St, on E 151 St into River Av. Turn off of River Av onto E 165 Street, turn off of E 165 Street, back onto Grand Concourse. Bx2 Reroute service from Grand Concourse between E 149 St and E 165 St Stay on East 149 Street until River Avenue, turn onto River Avenue, stay on River Avenue until East 165 Street. Turn on East 165 Street, onto Grand Concourse. Bx1 LIMITED makes local stops between East 149 Street and East 165 Street. Bx13 Extended down River Av, to E 149 St, turn on E 149 St, end at 149 St GC. The Bx13 is the most expensive option of the three. The Bx1 or Bx2 should run to the Gateway Mall along with the Bx13 to make service frequent so people are less likely to walk. This also gives bus service to the Yankees - E 153rd Street MNR station. This also makes the routes (Bx1 and Bx2) less redundant. The Bx2 is a better choice to service more of River Avenue since it is already on E 149 St where as the Bx1 would have to turn off of Grand Concourse. Bx2 can be more of a E 149 St Crosstown. Bx13 E 161 St extension would have to be eliminated, or exist as an alternate branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 24, 2011 Share #3 Posted July 24, 2011 I'd extend the Bx13 & be done w/ it.... I agree w/ shortline, I wouldn't bother re-routing the Bx1.... Only re-routing I think should be done w/ the Bx2 is the bringing back of its pre summer 2008 routing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 24, 2011 Share #4 Posted July 24, 2011 looks like I'm not the only one having this problem of unintentional double posts today... can a mod please delete this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #5 Posted July 25, 2011 When it comes to service to the Bronx Gateway Mall, it would be nice to have a bus serving the mall. However, the Bx1, Bx2, Bx6, or Bx13 shouldn't be the ones. Bx1/2: because it would be taken away from parts of the Grand Concourse that would serve the Courthouse, the heavily-elderly Concourse Village complex, and create more traffic by making them turn from the Concourse onto 165th St. That would do more harm than good for either route. Bx6: it's already quite busy with its current route Bx13: it would be difficult to make the turn from River to 161st St (especially when the Yankees are playing since turns are usually not allowed). In addition, the Bx13 would be better off being extended EAST to Hunts Point to help out the Bx6 (3rd Av wouldn't be a great terminus due to traffic and demand for service up the hill with the Forest and McKinley Housing Projects and Jane Addams and Morris High Schools located up the hill from 3rd Av). However, there is one route that could head to Gateway that no one mentioned, the Bx18. The Bx18 would continue down Jerome and River Avs to 149th St, where it would turn to terminate at either 149th/Concourse or further east to 3rd Av to serve Lincoln Hospital and The Hub. The Bx18's connection to the remains intact, but at Yankee Stadium instead of 170th St. The Bx18 would be a great candidate for the reroute since most of its riders tend to get off for the to Manhattan (if coming from Morris Heights). All that has to be done is to increase the Bx18 service during off-peak hours from 30 to 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #6 Posted July 25, 2011 By the way, the Bx13 extension to Hunts Point could also help in forms of interlining (with the Bx6) as well as relieving overcrowding on a corridor where most of the new housing in the South Bronx is getting built (specifically between Courtlandt and 3rd Avs in Melrose/Morrisania). As for the Bx18 to Gateway, I chose it as a candidate in order to give more life to that route. This way, it would be tougher to cut that route in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted July 25, 2011 When it comes to service to the Bronx Gateway Mall, it would be nice to have a bus serving the mall. However, the Bx1, Bx2, Bx6, or Bx13 shouldn't be the ones. Bx1/2: because it would be taken away from parts of the Grand Concourse that would serve the Courthouse, the heavily-elderly Concourse Village complex, and create more traffic by making them turn from the Concourse onto 165th St. That would do more harm than good for either route. Bx6: it's already quite busy with its current route Bx13: it would be difficult to make the turn from River to 161st St (especially when the Yankees are playing since turns are usually not allowed). In addition, the Bx13 would be better off being extended EAST to Hunts Point to help out the Bx6 (3rd Av wouldn't be a great terminus due to traffic and demand for service up the hill with the Forest and McKinley Housing Projects and Jane Addams and Morris High Schools located up the hill from 3rd Av). However, there is one route that could head to Gateway that no one mentioned, the Bx18. The Bx18 would continue down Jerome and River Avs to 149th St, where it would turn to terminate at either 149th/Concourse or further east to 3rd Av to serve Lincoln Hospital and The Hub. The Bx18's connection to the remains intact, but at Yankee Stadium instead of 170th St. The Bx18 would be a great candidate for the reroute since most of its riders tend to get off for the to Manhattan (if coming from Morris Heights). All that has to be done is to increase the Bx18 service during off-peak hours from 30 to 20 minutes. Concourse Village for many years had infrequent local service, this only doubled in 2008 because MTA rerouted the Bx2 from 165 St to 149 St. Concourse Village doesn't need all of those buses (half of the service except Sundays skips the area anyway due to LTD stops). The area would still have double the local service on weekdays and Saturdays until 6-7pm. It would have half the service on Sundays (same level of service it had with just the Bx1 alone pre 2008). The Bx2 seems to be the better candidate (unless the Bx13 turns on River Avenue further up during Yankee games) Bx2 used to turn on the other part of 165 St anyway. Only problem is near the Yankee parking lots during game days Bx13 currently has some trips ending at 3 Av, MTA thinks this is enough to help the Bx6. This is only a part time extension so the Bx6 will still be alone off peak. Bx2 is better than Bx18, an infrequent route which will make more people walk. What is the point of the Bx18 going to Gateway Mall when it will barely show up and if enough people wait for it, it will be packed. This will be like the Bx14 or Bx4A all over again. Bx18 ends before the malls close another problem. Bx2 riders can still walk to the courthouse since it will stop right under the train and above the ( trains. The Bx1 LIMITED can handle the courthouse and Concourse Village by itself (Bx1 local did fine until 2008) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted July 25, 2011 By the way, the Bx13 extension to Hunts Point could also help in forms of interlining (with the Bx6) as well as relieving overcrowding on a corridor where most of the new housing in the South Bronx is getting built (specifically between Courtlandt and 3rd Avs in Melrose/Morrisania). As for the Bx18 to Gateway, I chose it as a candidate in order to give more life to that route. This way, it would be tougher to cut that route in the future. Bx18 has been saved more than once, so it seems hard to get rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYCtrainfan01 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #9 Posted July 25, 2011 I haven't ridden this line so i'm not sure (judging by MTA BX bus map) would the Bx11 be a possible candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 25, 2011 Share #10 Posted July 25, 2011 The Bx18 would continue down Jerome and River Avs to 149th St, where it would turn to terminate at either 149th/Concourse or further east to 3rd Av to serve Lincoln Hospital and The Hub. The Bx18's connection to the remains intact, but at Yankee Stadium instead of 170th St. The Bx18 would be a great candidate for the reroute since most of its riders tend to get off for the to Manhattan (if coming from Morris Heights). It would also increase usage on the Bx13.... a route goin from Washington hgts to the mall is far more beneficial (for the bus network & for the borough of the bronx itself) than a route goin from morris hgts to the mall.... I would keep the Bx18 as is, serving 170th, whereas to keep a certain balance of pax along the concourse.... Yeah they take the , but more 18 riders favor the concourse over the jerome av line.... How many more people are we gonna cram at 161st/yankee stadium (..... I haven't ridden this line so i'm not sure (judging by MTA BX bus map) would the Bx11 be a possible candidate? nah... you need that coverage along 170th (extending the 18 eastward in its place won't work).... The Bx11 (and the 35) b/w washington hgts & longwood works..... What is the point of the Bx18 going to Gateway Mall when it will barely show up and if enough people wait for it, it will be packed. This will be like the Bx14 or Bx4A all over again. Bx18 ends before the malls close another problem. Bx18 has been saved more than once, so it seems hard to get rid of. I'm w/ you there..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Run Trains Posted July 25, 2011 Share #11 Posted July 25, 2011 However, there is one route that could head to Gateway that no one mentioned, the Bx18. The Bx18 would continue down Jerome and River Avs to 149th St, where it would turn to terminate at either 149th/Concourse or further east to 3rd Av to serve Lincoln Hospital and The Hub. The Bx18's connection to the remains intact, but at Yankee Stadium instead of 170th St. The Bx18 would be a great candidate for the reroute since most of its riders tend to get off for the to Manhattan (if coming from Morris Heights). All that has to be done is to increase the Bx18 service during off-peak hours from 30 to 20 minutes. i feel if they was to extend the BX18, extend it on the other side of the line where it would be easier and quicker to get to. In stead of that sharp u turn like right turn on Undercliff and sedgwick, Keep straight and get on the Deegan that a block down and take it one exit directly in to the mall on the side under the highway, and coming Ride back also side the Deegan to Sedgwick and undercliff and head back to 170 and GC.. makes more sense to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #12 Posted July 25, 2011 I'd extend the Bx13 & be done w/ it.... I agree w/ shortline, I wouldn't bother re-routing the Bx1.... Only re-routing I think should be done w/ the Bx2 is the bringing back of its pre summer 2008 routing... Out of curiosity, what was their logic in taking it away from Webster Avenue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 25, 2011 Share #13 Posted July 25, 2011 Out of curiosity, what was their logic in taking it away from Webster Avenue? it didn't come as part of any string of cuts or w/e (for once).... They changed the routing of the Bx2, 55, 41, 15, and the 21 due to the new road configuration around The Hub... -------------- guess they figured since the Bx2 was a concourse bus, they'd have it serve more of the concourse by having it serve 149th & turning off on the concourse there.... instead of going up webster, etc. to 165th (which would've [in their eyes] added to the congestion around melrose/149th w/ which they were tryna control/alleviate in the first place), and turning onto the concourse there.... way I see it, the Bx1 was good on its own along the concourse south of 165th.... the Bx2 helped out the 41 a bit along melrose / webster.... and if you ask me, it took some riders off the 6 as well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 25, 2011 Share #14 Posted July 25, 2011 If you extend the (Bx18) down there, what will serve Undercliff/Sedgwick Avs? I'd probably create a new route to serve Bronx Gateway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #15 Posted July 25, 2011 it didn't come as part of any string of cuts or w/e (for once).... They changed the routing of the Bx2, 55, 41, 15, and the 21 due to the new road configuration around The Hub... -------------- guess they figured since the Bx2 was a concourse bus, they'd have it serve more of the concourse by having it serve 149th & turning off on the concourse there.... instead of going up webster, etc. to 165th (which would've [in their eyes] added to the congestion around melrose/149th w/ which they were tryna control/alleviate in the first place), and turning onto the concourse there.... way I see it, the Bx1 was good on its own along the concourse south of 165th.... the Bx2 helped out the 41 a bit along melrose / webster.... and if you ask me, it took some riders off the 6 as well.... That's exactly what happened. The MTA thought the Bx2 was adding to the congestion at the Hub (when in reality, it's all of the buses and the cars packed onto narrow streets). The Bx2 filled a short, but important crosstown gap between 161st and 167th Sts (and it also served JHS 145). Getting back to the Bus to Gateway Mall issue. If the Bx18 isn't a good candidate, how about a bus coming from Manhattan like the M1, M7, or M102. This would allow for two things: 1. A route from the 161st St area to Harlem. 161st St riders have access to Washington Heights and the areas uphill on 155th, but no access to Central Harlem (the doesn't count since it goes to St. Nicholas, not Powell or Lenox). In addition, any of these lines connects to the , which could serve as an alternative to its crowded Bronx counterparts. 2. An alternate route between the Bronx and Central Harlem for those trying to avoid using the ( lines since they are getting crushloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted July 25, 2011 Share #16 Posted July 25, 2011 If that case might as well create a new route running say between 96th/Bway on the Upper West side and the Hub. This route can travel via the old "M18" route but start on 96th then via Amsterdam/Columbus, 116th, Convent, St Nicholas, 145th, 149th Bridge, loop via Gateway Mall, 149th and end at the Hub area. The (M1) (M102) and (M7) are already bad with bus bunching from Mid Manhattan. Thus none of those are a good idea. Again by default the BX13 makes the most sense. That's exactly what happened. The MTA thought the Bx2 was adding to the congestion at the Hub (when in reality, it's all of the buses and the cars packed onto narrow streets). The Bx2 filled a short, but important crosstown gap between 161st and 167th Sts (and it also served JHS 145). Getting back to the Bus to Gateway Mall issue. If the Bx18 isn't a good candidate, how about a bus coming from Manhattan like the M1, M7, or M102. This would allow for two things: 1. A route from the 161st St area to Harlem. 161st St riders have access to Washington Heights and the areas uphill on 155th, but no access to Central Harlem (the doesn't count since it goes to St. Nicholas, not Powell or Lenox). In addition, any of these lines connects to the , which could serve as an alternative to its crowded Bronx counterparts. 2. An alternate route between the Bronx and Central Harlem for those trying to avoid using the ( lines since they are getting crushloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted July 25, 2011 If that case might as well create a new route running say between 96th/Bway on the Upper West side and the Hub. This route can travel via the old "M18" route but start on 96th then via Amsterdam/Columbus, 116th, Convent, St Nicholas, 145th, 149th Bridge, loop via Gateway Mall, 149th and end at the Hub area. The (M1) (M102) and (M7) are already bad with bus bunching from Mid Manhattan. Thus none of those are a good idea. Again by default the BX13 makes the most sense. If there is a Manhattan route going to the Mall, end it at yankee Stadium by traveling straight up River Avenue (since the entrance to Target and most of the stores are on that street). If not, I would propose creating a new Bronx route, running crosstown mostly around 153rd/156th Sts and Longwood Avenue that would run between Gateway Mall and the Hunts Point Market (the Bx6 would be rerouted to serve Barretto Point Park in order to placate locals from Hunts Point who are based around Seneca Av). It could be called the new Bx37. Eastbound: River Av, 149th St, Park Av, 156th St, Westchester Av, Longwood Av, Spofford av, Halleck St, Food Center Drive Westbound: Food Center Drive, Halleck St, Spofford Av, Longwood Av, 160th St, Forest Av, 156th St, 3rd Av, 153rd St, Morris Av, 149th St, Exterior St, 153rd St This route could fill a gap between 149th and 161st Sts (in a neighborhood where most of the new housing is getting built in Melrose, thus taking some loads off the Bx6). In addition, this would give Hunts Point riders direct access to the lines at Prospect Avenue, The Hub, Hostos Community College, and Lincoln Hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 25, 2011 Share #18 Posted July 25, 2011 If you extend the (Bx18) down there, what will serve Undercliff/Sedgwick Avs? I'd probably create a new route to serve Bronx Gateway I get what he's sayin... he wants to leave the current morris hgts portion alone.... but instead of buses turning onto 170th (en route to 170th/GC), he wants to continue 18's down jerome..... The (M1) (M102) and (M7) are already bad with bus bunching from Mid Manhattan. Thus none of those are a good idea. I don't think he's necessarily sayin extend those routes Getting back to the Bus to Gateway Mall issue. If the Bx18 isn't a good candidate, how about a bus coming from Manhattan like the M1, M7, or M102. This would allow for two things: 1. A route from the 161st St area to Harlem. 161st St riders have access to Washington Heights and the areas uphill on 155th, but no access to Central Harlem (the doesn't count since it goes to St. Nicholas, not Powell or Lenox). In addition, any of these lines connects to the , which could serve as an alternative to its crowded Bronx counterparts. 2. An alternate route between the Bronx and Central Harlem for those trying to avoid using the ( lines since they are getting crushloaded. The general idea is good, but that would help manhattan riders more than it would bronx riders.... much like the M60 is beneficial (or less of a hassle to get to) for manhattan riders than it is for bronx riders.... extending the Bx13 (or rerouting the 1/2, as Greatone brought up), would end up doing more for / better serving of bronx riders.... you have to address the lack of service where the mall is currently situated in first, before you start looking to expand..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #19 Posted July 25, 2011 I get what he's sayin... he wants to leave the current morris hgts portion alone.... but instead of buses turning onto 170th (en route to 170th/GC), he wants to continue 18's down jerome..... I don't think he's necessarily sayin extend those routes The general idea is good, but that would help manhattan riders more than it would bronx riders.... much like the M60 is beneficial (or less of a hassle to get to) for manhattan riders than it is for bronx riders.... extending the Bx13 (or rerouting the 1/2, as Greatone brought up), would end up doing more for / better serving of bronx riders.... you have to address the lack of service where the mall is currently situated in first, before you start looking to expand..... Most Bronx riders already have good service to Gateway in the form of the lines at 149th/Concourse (where many shoppers usually come from). However, I've been wanting to resolve Mall access from 161st St and from Manhattan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 25, 2011 Share #20 Posted July 25, 2011 Most Bronx riders already have good service to Gateway in the form of the lines at 149th/Concourse (where many shoppers usually come from). However, I've been wanting to resolve Mall access from 161st St and from Manhattan. true, but how can we discern which of those are comin from the north, and those comin from manhattan, etc... I was talkin about as far as bus coverage goes, btw.... I believe that's why the thread was even created..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotb16 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #21 Posted July 25, 2011 true, but how can we discern which of those are comin from the north, and those comin from manhattan, etc... I was talkin about as far as bus coverage goes, btw.... I believe that's why the thread was even created..... Most coming from the north usually come from the Yankee Stadium area (where the ( lines, as well as the Bx6, moreso than those coming from the Bx13). As for Manhattan, they mostly come from the line or the Bx19 since they serve Central Harlem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q43LTD Posted July 25, 2011 Share #22 Posted July 25, 2011 How about this, the (M1) doesn't do there during the week since it goes to the village. Weekends yes since it's cut back to 106 St? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1447 Posted July 25, 2011 Share #23 Posted July 25, 2011 This topic has been discussed before. Great one i agree it's a disgrace why Bronx Gateway has not had bus service there yet. With that said, the BX1 and BX2 are both already long routes that do not need to re-routed to serve there. The BX13 and maybe the BX6 are both still the best choice to serve BX Gateway Mall IMO. And for a second route i would suggest 'short turn' BX19 buses. In other words if and when the BX19 get 'limited stop' service, local BX19 could terminate at the Bronx Gateway Mall. That my takes. As far as maybe 1-2 other South Bronx area buses i think somone like COTB16 would be the best one to ask. BX19 to end there, I wouldn't do that due to lots of rider going to / from Manhattan. The Bx13 is better off going over there. or even the Bx2. Most Bronx riders already have good service to Gateway in the form of the lines at 149th/Concourse (where many shoppers usually come from). However, I've been wanting to resolve Mall access from 161st St and from Manhattan. A lot of them walk over the 145th Street Bridge to get to / from the mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engr08 Posted July 26, 2011 Share #24 Posted July 26, 2011 If you extend the (Bx18) down there, what will serve Undercliff/Sedgwick Avs? I'd probably create a new route to serve Bronx Gateway Extend the Bx42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted July 26, 2011 Share #25 Posted July 26, 2011 Extend the Bx42 Negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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