+Select-Bus-Service+ riders taken to court

[mark1447]

Heres the NY1 article:

 

http://statenisland.ny1.com/content/news_beats/transit/144705/broken-ticket-machines-on-select-bus-service-lines-result-in-hefty-fines/

 

 

When I rode the M15 SBS on Sunday that was the first time I saw inspectors checking receipts. At 1 Avenue & East 67 Street. They don't keep your receipt. They just look at the time and date. Either you hold it as they look or they might take it from you, look at it, and return it to you. There were three guys, one came in through each door.

 

My bus was only carrying about 15-20 people, now I wonder how they do it with a standing load? I wish they would just get on the buses and let them go as they check the receipts, but oh well. Considering the fact that they don't check receipts very often, it probably adds no more than a minute or two every two weeks to a regular SBS rider's commute. It isn't super, but it isn't terrible either.

 

They also check the MetroCard type as well, ive seen receipts on the floor with one showing RFM (Reduced Fare Metrocard), and u do need to show proof.

 

 

Yes, when I take M15 SBS on Christmas Week, southbound trip they check at 79th St, 14th St, Chinatown.

And uptown at Chinatown, 24th, 42nd, 57th, 67th, 79th.

 

I remember sometimes fare inspector was at 106th St as well.

 

Sometimes fare inspector take ride on M15 SBS for short distance as well.

 

Heh.. MTA talking about the SBS12 also having inspectors. I RARELY to NEVER see an inspector... Last inspection I had was in 2008! Im surprised theres a LOT on the SBS15.

 

....and I was called a "blithering idiot" by some fly-by-night member on RD, back when they first put SBS on the Bx12... when I mentioned that I wasn't too fond of the idea of SBS, due to the fact that it could be used as a way for the MTA to siphon money out of riders....

 

yeah +SBS+ has its benefits, but I still view it as nothin more than a souped up version of a limited.....

 

 

hell, thanks to SBS (and serious overcrowding), I avoid the Bx12 like the plague.....

 

 

 

 

Hate to say this, but sooner or later, I saw something like this comin.... I think it's a crooked way of tryna steal (yes, steal) money from oblivious passengers who won't know what to do when they're at a SBS stop, where none of the machines are functional.... for anyone suggesting that the local should've been taken or w/e, all I have to say about that is, it isn't a remedy to anything here... at the same token, it inconveniences riders wanting/needing limited (err, SBS) service.....

 

Your damn right its like souped up Limited..

 

A TRUE BRT:

 

-Cut some more stops

-LINK the SBS service (Extend M15 or Bx12SBS and allow transfers in between). I would also extend the Bx12SBS into Midtown the least.

-Use a diff alternative to paying before you go on the bus. Have some technology that detects proof of payment automatically when you enter the bus.. Anyone who gets detected for not pay gets stopped by a fare inspector inside.

[Gorgor]

A TRUE BRT:

 

-Cut some more stops

-LINK the SBS service (Extend M15 or Bx12SBS and allow transfers in between). I would also extend the Bx12SBS into Midtown the least.

-Use a diff alternative to paying before you go on the bus. Have some technology that detects proof of payment automatically when you enter the bus.. Anyone who gets detected for not pay gets stopped by a fare inspector inside.

 

Unless the Bx12SBS was extended to Midtown via the West Side Highway, nobody would use it because the subway would take half or a third of the time local roads would, and I doubt the MTA would send a bus on the highway for a good 10+ miles. I don't think the two SBS's need to be connected because not only would it be hard to, but there's no demand.

 

Out of the 10+ times I've taken the M15 SBS, there's only been fare inspectors once, and they only chose a few people at random, one of them being me, and he only glanced at it for a second from 5-10 feet away, which is way too far to read the whole ticket fully. If anything, they should add barcodes or something to the ticket that the fare inspectors could simply scan. It'll be faster and you won't be able to get away with showing them an expired ticket like some people I know do.

['89 Liberty MCI]

Unless the Bx12SBS was extended to Midtown via the West Side Highway, nobody would use it because the subway would take half or a third of the time local roads would, and I doubt the MTA would send a bus on the highway for a good 10+ miles. I don't think the two SBS's need to be connected because not only would it be hard to, but there's no demand.

 

There is a simple way to connect them; it involves a future SBS route: http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28506

 

I think if they made that connection a significant amount of people would utilize it. Maybe not right away, but it would still be well-utilized.

[mark1447]

Unless the Bx12SBS was extended to Midtown via the West Side Highway, nobody would use it because the subway would take half or a third of the time local roads would, and I doubt the MTA would send a bus on the highway for a good 10+ miles. I don't think the two SBS's need to be connected because not only would it be hard to, but there's no demand.

 

Out of the 10+ times I've taken the M15 SBS, there's only been fare inspectors once, and they only chose a few people at random, one of them being me, and he only glanced at it for a second from 5-10 feet away, which is way too far to read the whole ticket fully. If anything, they should add barcodes or something to the ticket that the fare inspectors could simply scan. It'll be faster and you won't be able to get away with showing them an expired ticket like some people I know do.

 

You can pretty much send the SBS12 ether:

 

~via NY-9A, exit at around 125th, follow the M104 route to 42nd Street then run on the M42 to the UN.

 

~via HRD to 125th and end (with connection to the M15SBS) or extend to UN or something.

[checkmatechamp13]

Unless the Bx12SBS was extended to Midtown via the West Side Highway, nobody would use it because the subway would take half or a third of the time local roads would, and I doubt the MTA would send a bus on the highway for a good 10+ miles. I don't think the two SBS's need to be connected because not only would it be hard to, but there's no demand.

 

Out of the 10+ times I've taken the M15 SBS, there's only been fare inspectors once, and they only chose a few people at random, one of them being me, and he only glanced at it for a second from 5-10 feet away, which is way too far to read the whole ticket fully. If anything, they should add barcodes or something to the ticket that the fare inspectors could simply scan. It'll be faster and you won't be able to get away with showing them an expired ticket like some people I know do.

 

If the M15 were extended down Third Avenue in The Bronx (and replaced the Bx55) that would work, but of course the problem is that the route would be something like 90 minutes long and could become unreliable (though they could try and put short-turns along the route)

[Gorgor]

You can pretty much send the SBS12 ether:

 

~via NY-9A, exit at around 125th, follow the M104 route to 42nd Street then run on the M42 to the UN.

 

~via HRD to 125th and end (with connection to the M15SBS) or extend to UN or something.

 

That MIGHT work, but there's absolutely no chance of ever creating a bus lane there. There's too many parking spots that will be lost, or if it were an offset bus lane it would restrict Broadway to only one travel lane in certain spots. Plus it's a two way street which means more stopping at red lights because the lights aren't timed.

 

Besides that, I don't see any real possibility of linking the M15 and Bx12 Select Bus Services because anything using the highway would GREATLY decrease the reliability of the routes because the traffic can be unpredictable most of the time. Anyone going from the Bronx to East Side could take the subway, which is much faster than any possible linkage of the SBSes, or take the express bus if they're unable to use the subway for any reason. But also, besides for residents of the Bronx commuting to their jobs on the East Side, I see no demand at all for people commuting between the two areas, and if they want to then like I said already, the subway provides a MUCH faster trip.

[Abba]

Speaking of SBS if you can enter through the middle door,how would the bus driver know you have a ticket in your hand?

[via White Plains Road]

Speaking of SBS if you can enter through the middle door,how would the bus driver know you have a ticket in your hand?

 

The B/O wouldn't know he or she is not going to get up and check each passenger for their tickets....the ticket inspectors would know!

[transit bx]

Come on ppl, lets be realistic and use common sense, if you know the machine is broken wait for the local plain and simple. Ppl knows what will happen if you board that bus without the ticket. And i find it hard to see all four meachine being O/S. So all this back and fourth and getting into each other throat this debate is easy as taking a candy away from a baby, dont get on if you dont have a ticket. You think the conductor is going want to hear you dont have a ticket b/c the machine is broken if you get on MNRR or LIRR. No is either your going to pay that full fare or your getting off the next stop.

[FamousNYLover]

Speaking of SBS, do you know what happened after Bronx Zoo close yesterday after 5:30pm? I know I don't like to use bad words, but I want to share you guys report.

On Westbound Bx12SBS #1202 (front section of bus) at Fordham Plaza stop, one teenage man was pissed at bus operator, and everyone onboard Bx12SBS was laughing.

He paid at machine, and we all pointed toward receipt and he got receipt and went inside.

He was pissed and he threw his receipt on aisle, even we all them fare inspectors come on bus to gave $100 fine and kick off bus.

Conversation.

He: Can you use this MetroCard?

B/O: You have to paid at bus stop, get a receipt.

When he push start button, put MetroCard in, he attempt to board the bus.

Me/Passenger by front door/B/O: (points at receipt) Receipt.

He went to get it.

On board Bx12SBS

He shows receipt and we tell them

"Fare inspectors board the bus to make sure everyone has receipt."

He: (as he threw receipt on bus floor): F-word, this is pain.

[Gorgor]

Come on ppl, lets be realistic and use common sense, if you know the machine is broken wait for the local plain and simple. Ppl knows what will happen if you board that bus without the ticket. And i find it hard to see all four meachine being O/S. So all this back and fourth and getting into each other throat this debate is easy as taking a candy away from a baby, dont get on if you dont have a ticket. You think the conductor is going want to hear you dont have a ticket b/c the machine is broken if you get on MNRR or LIRR. No is either your going to pay that full fare or your getting off the next stop.

 

How about this? What do you do when you enter a subway station and ALL of the turnstiles are broken, and there's no station agent there? This happened to me and my friend at 49th street on the once, and after trying 2 different ones each we noticed the red lights on all and just hopped it. Were we supposed to get out and go to the next station because the MTA screwed up?

 

The SBS is significantly faster than the local. And to be honest, what I would do if that was the case would be just hop the select and pay at the next stop. But if someone's scared about fare inspectors for just one stop just hop in the back of the local and get out at the next select stop. Fare inspectors don't check the local and bus drivers are used to people mistaking the local for the select and don't bother people. Hell, I've just gone straight in the front door after waiting 15 minutes for a select that never came and the driver didn't even look or say anything to me.

[FamousNYLover]

If you're at South Ferry, and all SBS Machines were broken, would you take free BPC Shuttle Bus or regular M15 Local to Wall St SBS Station to get SBS Receipt?

[Gorgor]

If you're at South Ferry, and all SBS Machines were broken, would you take free BPC Shuttle Bus or regular M15 Local to Wall St SBS Station to get SBS Receipt?

 

If it were at a terminal then I'd tell the bus driver. Anywhere else along the route it would not only delay everyone else on the bus by telling him, but he could just turn me away. And I'm not familiar with the BPC Shuttle Bus, what is that?

[R188 7857]

How about this? What do you do when you enter a subway station and ALL of the turnstiles are broken, and there's no station agent there? This happened to me and my friend at 49th street on the once, and after trying 2 different ones each we noticed the red lights on all and just hopped it. Were we supposed to get out and go to the next station because the MTA screwed up?

 

The SBS is significantly faster than the local. And to be honest, what I would do if that was the case would be just hop the select and pay at the next stop. But if someone's scared about fare inspectors for just one stop just hop in the back of the local and get out at the next select stop. Fare inspectors don't check the local and bus drivers are used to people mistaking the local for the select and don't bother people. Hell, I've just gone straight in the front door after waiting 15 minutes for a select that never came and the driver didn't even look or say anything to me.

 

Jumping the turnstile? Are you crazy? Now thats from the SAME guy who kicked train doors and crys about his "X90". Only TWO turnstiles at a station? I don't belive it. There was to be about THREE. which makes me thing that your blaming the . Stop with this bullshit, you shouldn't share this cause all your doing is getting YOURSELF IN TROUBLE. :mad: :mad:

[Gorgor]

Jumping the turnstile? Are you crazy? Now thats from the SAME guy who kicked train doors and crys about his "X90". Only TWO turnstiles at a station? I don't belive it. There was to be about THREE. which makes me thing that your blaming the . Stop with this bullshit, you shouldn't share this cause all your doing is getting YOURSELF IN TROUBLE. :mad: :mad:

 

There were about 8 turnstiles or so, I don't remember how many. I tried one twice, didn't work, went to the next one, didn't work, same with my friend, then we noticed all of them had the red signs do not enter signs rather than the regular green ones.

 

Enough with this "Oh he's just spewing out crap because the MTA cut his express bus route" theory... Yes, of course I'm mad that the MTA cut my one-seat ride down to the WFC and I now have to walk over a mile each way plus take the overcrowded 6, but that has no place in this discussion. I was giving an example of something that happened years ago, which is quite similar to the SBS machines not working.

 

If all the SBS machines are broken and you decide to take the local, then that's about the same as having all the turnstiles busted and having to walk to the next station because you end up losing about the same amount of time. Now tell me, what if you walked into a station and all the turnstiles weren't working and there was no station agent and nobody else around... would you just hop it or get out and walk 8 blocks to the next station? Yes, I am well aware that my actions were against the law but I didn't hop it because I didn't want to pay, I hopped it because the MTA screwed up, and I'm not walking 8 blocks in the pouring rain.

[R188 7857]

You could have ATLEAST filed a complaint. Cause that IS unexceptable.

[FamousNYLover]

During 10am to 7:30pm, Battery Park City Shuttle bus parells M20 from North End Av/Vesey St to South Ferry, then parells M15 to Seaport.

[Mysterious2train]

A TRUE BRT:

 

-Cut some more stops

 

 

>Implying that current SBS routes have too many stops? Not quite that simple.

 

- The Bx12 SBS has two stops (Sedgwick Avenue and Bartow Mall) that were only added after SBS was initiated and weren't part of the initial plan, so as far as the riderbase was concerned, there weren't enough stops.

 

- The M15 seems pretty fine as it is. Perhaps you could make a case for cutting the 28th St/29th St stop, but people probably won't go for that. I do remember there being a circle unhappy with St. Marks Place a.k.a. 8th Street not becoming an SBS stop. Plus SBS does also skip 72nd St.

 

- The M34 SBS, which is a Crosstown and by design makes lots of stops, is going to have 2 stops less(by virtue of combining four different stops into two)

 

- The B44 SBS might be a little bit closer to this 'true' BRT you mentioned, seeing as how the is hacking stops left and right. A typical B44 Limited trip has about 37 stops. SBS is planned to have only 15. 14 stops really, because Newkirk Ave/Avenue D wasn't originally planned as a stop and thrown in later. Plus some posters here have thrown out the idea of sending the B44 to Manhattan (I'm not really one of them), although I don't think that's on the (MTA)'s minds right now.

 

As to the topic at hand, pretty low for the to pull this crap, especially since SBS is their little baby.

 

While it won't help in the case all are shut down, I do think the should look into adding a 3rd Metrocard machine to all stations (perhaps even a 4th one for stations with higher ridership) and a 2nd coin machine. Still, I kind of like the idea of having people pay at the next stop if machines are not working, even if it's not easy to keep track those people/enforce it.

 

 

I do remember seeing a machine at Southern Blvd being all vandalized.

 

Also, isn't it funny? We're saying how we need more inspectors out to catch farebeaters, but now out of the blue these guys with a legitimate problem are getting fined.

[FamousNYLover]

There's more article.

http://www.ny1.com/content/144887/sbs-payment-machine-breakdowns-a-problem-for-passengers?ap=1&MP4

[BJC]

So they checked as much as 6 times in one trip?? Jesus... :eek:

 

I find that hard to believe if you ask me.Ether way,MTA will never admit it's their fault,they never will.

[checkmatechamp13]

I find that hard to believe if you ask me.Ether way,MTA will never admit it's their fault,they never will.

 

Well, if you think about it, even +SBS+ routes have pretty high turnover. In general, farebeaters aren't riding the bus for too long (usually just a couple of miles), so it's possible that you could have some farebeaters from say 125th Street to 100th Street (technically 96th Street, but the stop was moved), and then some more farebeaters from 14th Street to Houston Street.

 

The thing that they should do to make the fare inspection more efficient is, rather than hold the bus to check the fares, they could just board the bus, and then after the doors close, they check a few random people, and then pull them off the bus at the next stop if they don't have a ticket. Then, they could take a bus back to their original stop (checking the people on that bus as well), and repeat the process.

 

If it takes, say 5 minutes to hold the bus at the stop to check the tickets, and the average distance between stops is 5 minutes, they'll pretty much get to check the same number of passengers.

 

Speaking of SBS, do you know what happened after Bronx Zoo close yesterday after 5:30pm? I know I don't like to use bad words, but I want to share you guys report.

On Westbound Bx12SBS #1202 (front section of bus) at Fordham Plaza stop, one teenage man was pissed at bus operator, and everyone onboard Bx12SBS was laughing.

He paid at machine, and we all pointed toward receipt and he got receipt and went inside.

He was pissed and he threw his receipt on aisle, even we all them fare inspectors come on bus to gave $100 fine and kick off bus.

Conversation.

He: Can you use this MetroCard?

B/O: You have to paid at bus stop, get a receipt.

When he push start button, put MetroCard in, he attempt to board the bus.

Me/Passenger by front door/B/O: (points at receipt) Receipt.

He went to get it.

On board Bx12SBS

He shows receipt and we tell them

"Fare inspectors board the bus to make sure everyone has receipt."

He: (as he threw receipt on bus floor): F-word, this is pain.

 

That was stupid. If he already paid for the receipt, why bother throwing it on the ground? Then, if the fare inspectors came, he wouldn't have anything to show them.

 

If I didn't have a receipt and saw someone throw theirs on the ground, I'd just pick it up. Hey, if you don't want it, I'll take it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Come on ppl, lets be realistic and use common sense, if you know the machine is broken wait for the local plain and simple. Ppl knows what will happen if you board that bus without the ticket. And i find it hard to see all four meachine being O/S. So all this back and fourth and getting into each other throat this debate is easy as taking a candy away from a baby, dont get on if you dont have a ticket. You think the conductor is going want to hear you dont have a ticket b/c the machine is broken if you get on MNRR or LIRR. No is either your going to pay that full fare or your getting off the next stop.

 

No, common sense says that if the machines are broken then you get on. The signs even say that you should board the bus if the machines are broken and I posted the link earlier with that part information. When the farebox is broken on the express bus we are waived on and the same thing goes for the local buses, so I don't see why it should be any different in this case. Quite frankly I don't see what telling the B/O is supposed to do in terms of the fare inspectors. I guess they're supposed to report it, but if they choose not to or forget to do so then what?

 

I think if someone shows their Metrocard and or their receipt from the vending machine when they bought their Metrocard originally and it is an unlimited card then there should be nothing to dispute because the person has already paid for the ride in that the card is an unlimited pass. If it were a pay-per-ride card then perhaps that's another issue, but even so, the should be able to easy confirm whether or not all of the machines were broken at the station or not and if they are then there should be no ticket.

 

What they need to do is have a system in place where the inspectors can be know which machines are out and where this way they can simply confirm the passengers claims accordingly.

 

Another dilemma I see happening is when these machines get older and more beat up from the elements and vandals and so on important information will be removed from the machines and folks that are using the system for the first time will have difficulties knowing what to do. I already saw a few SBS bus stops where the stickers and all of that are starting to come off.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Speaking of SBS, do you know what happened after Bronx Zoo close yesterday after 5:30pm? I know I don't like to use bad words, but I want to share you guys report.

On Westbound Bx12SBS #1202 (front section of bus) at Fordham Plaza stop, one teenage man was pissed at bus operator, and everyone onboard Bx12SBS was laughing.

He paid at machine, and we all pointed toward receipt and he got receipt and went inside.

He was pissed and he threw his receipt on aisle, even we all them fare inspectors come on bus to gave $100 fine and kick off bus.

Conversation.

He: Can you use this MetroCard?

B/O: You have to paid at bus stop, get a receipt.

When he push start button, put MetroCard in, he attempt to board the bus.

Me/Passenger by front door/B/O: (points at receipt) Receipt.

He went to get it.

On board Bx12SBS

He shows receipt and we tell them

"Fare inspectors board the bus to make sure everyone has receipt."

He: (as he threw receipt on bus floor): F-word, this is pain.

 

LOL!

[BrooklynBus]

Here is another article about innocent people being given summonses and fare abuse- http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/08/how-many-innocent-riders-will-receive-summonses-when-sbs-comes-to-brooklyn/

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Here is another article about innocent people being given summonses and fare abuse- http://www.sheepsheadbites.com/2011/08/how-many-innocent-riders-will-receive-summonses-when-sbs-comes-to-brooklyn/

 

I just read your article and I can't believe some of what is stated...

 

"Yet another flaw in the system is that receipts are only valid for one hour after purchase. So if you should decide to ride an SBS route from one end to the other, where waiting for the bus together with the trip could take more than one hour, you also risk a summons for an expired receipt if an inspector boards the bus shortly before you are due to get off, although the ticket was purchased for that trip."

 

So then my suspicions were correct then!! :mad: I read the back of that ticket when I used the M15 SBS some weeks back and that was my interpretation of it, but several folks here couldn't believe that the would only give passengers one hour to get from South Ferry to 125th st... Well someone needs to speak up about this and at the next hearing I plan to do so. That is utterly ridiculous!! :mad:

 

I also am going to speak out about the broken machine situation too. :mad: :tdown: