Arthur Hill Correctional closing

[Amtrak7]

The MTA just issued a press release saying that Arthur Kill Correctional will close after tomorrow. The S74 will bypass, the S55 will terminate short of it.

 

 

Yet another blow for the already terribly-performing S55.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are already calls for that place to be used as the site for another depot... If it means more express bus service, I'm all for it. :cool:

[qjtransitmaster]

There are already calls for that place to be used as the site for another depot... If it means more express bus service, I'm all for it. :cool:

 

If that happens then forget about cutting S55 cause then locals can turn into S55 then boom depot. It would decrease the cost of operating the line in a way.

[checkmatechamp13]

There are already calls for that place to be used as the site for another depot... If it means more express bus service, I'm all for it. :cool:

 

I doubt they'd build another depot there when Charleston is relatively close. If anything, they'd expand the Meredith Depot.

[Shortline Bus]

The MTA just issued a press release saying that Arthur Kill Correctional will close after tomorrow. The S74 will bypass, the S55 will terminate short of it.

 

 

Yet another blow for the already terribly-performing S55.

 

First if the S55 had better headways and ran for a few hours on Saturdays,

(8am-8pm) i am sure ridership would pick up. I am not saying it needs say 5 minute headways lol but with the (S74) so damn long it could be an effective secondary route along Arthur Kill and a direct access to the SI Mall for part of the boro's far west south shore.

 

One radical idea i had for the (S55) would be to extend it's eastbound terminal to the SI College area so South Shore students and even workers have a direct bus to campus. Also a 1-fare ride and transfer to the (S93) as well. While westbound it would be extended to Tottenville Terminal aka the former (S74) terminal. It would restore some form of Arthur Kill service between Tottenville and Richmond Ave. It would be streamlined to travel mainly along Amboy Road (via Bloomingdale and Annadale Rd)between Rossville and Eligntville TC. Service to Hylan and Wolfe Park should be canned.

 

Regarding the (S74) well it saves a few minutes travel time now bypassing that now former prison.

[qjtransitmaster]

First if the S55 had better headways and ran for a few hours on Saturdays,

(8am-8pm) i am sure ridership would pick up. I am not saying it needs say 5 minute headways lol but with the (S74) so damn long it could be an effective secondary route along Arthur Kill and a direct access to the SI Mall for part of the SI Mall.

 

One radical idea i had for the (S55) would be to extend it's eastbound terminal to the SI College area so South Shore students and even workers have a direct bus to campus. Also a 1-fare ride and transfer to the (S93) as well. While westbound it would be extended to Tottenville Terminal aka the former (S74) terminal. It would restore some form of Arthur Kill service between Tottenville and Richmond Ave. It would be streamlined to travel mainly along Amboy Road (via Bloomingdale and Annadale Rd)between Rossville and Eligntville TC. Service to Hylan and Wolfe Park should be canned.

 

Regarding the (S74) well it saves a few minutes travel time now bypassing that now former prison.

you sir have very big BALLZ with this idea. You used to work for septa??? cause they have BALLZ. Back to MTA and S55 I did have an extreme idea to have it absorb the former S60 via ocean terrance and some back roads. But well you know how I feel about s55 in terms of NJ

[checkmatechamp13]

First if the S55 had better headways and ran for a few hours on Saturdays,

(8am-8pm) i am sure ridership would pick up. I am not saying it needs say 5 minute headways lol but with the (S74) so damn long it could be an effective secondary route along Arthur Kill and a direct access to the SI Mall for part of the SI Mall.

 

One radical idea i had for the (S55) would be to extend it's eastbound terminal to the SI College area so South Shore students and even workers have a direct bus to campus. Also a 1-fare ride and transfer to the (S93) as well. While westbound it would be extended to Tottenville Terminal aka the former (S74) terminal. It would restore some form of Arthur Kill service between Tottenville and Richmond Ave. It would be streamlined to travel mainly along Amboy Road (via Bloomingdale and Annadale Rd)between Rossville and Eligntville TC. Service to Hylan and Wolfe Park should be canned.

 

Regarding the (S74) well it saves a few minutes travel time now bypassing that now former prison.

 

No, better headways are unlikely to do much, since most of the people down there drive.

 

And just keep in mind that the reason the S55 serves Hylan Blvd is because it passes by Tottenville High School, and it also serves SI University Hospital South (not that a whole lot of people going there take the bus, but whatever)

 

This is what I think should happen in the South Shore area:

 

The S82 I mentioned could serve Bloomingdale Road after coming off the WSE, and then take Englewood Avenue to Bricktown, and possibly continue to Tottenville.

 

The S55 would turn off Bloomingdale Road at Englewood Avenue and continue to the Bricktown Mall and possibly Tottenville. At least it would make up for having lost a traffic generator (and I'd say a mall is a stronger generator than a prison)

 

If both routes went to Tottenville, it might possibly make it easier on residents of the neighborhood who lost the S74. They'd still have their one-seat ride to the ETC (though I doubt ridership would increase on the S55 enough to justify weekend service), and if they actually need destinations along the S74 route, they have a better chance at catching a bus (they aren't dependant on the S78 meeting the S74). Not to mention, you might have the occasional transit-dependent rider who has more frequent service to Bricktown.

 

I'd prefer that the S59 be swapped with the S89 so that only school trippers serve Tottenville, but in either case, they should consider sending whichever bus past Tottenville and to Bricktown.

 

As far as extending the S55 to CSI, I guess it's worth a shot. I mean for what its worth, South Shore riders are less likely to want to transfer, so maybe an extension to CSI would help boost ridership.

[aemoreira81]

The MTA just issued a press release saying that Arthur Kill Correctional will close after tomorrow. The S74 will bypass, the S55 will terminate short of it.

 

(Image removed for space saving)

 

Yet another blow for the already terribly-performing S55.

 

The S55. going back to its days as the S115, has never been a high-use route. It exists primarily for Tottenville High School, and for years was a rush-hour only route.

 

As for the S55's west end, I would do this to make it more useful, and it would also involve the S56 and S74.

 

1. Reroute the S74 in and west of Rossville. The S74 would travel its current route to Bloomingdale and Arthur Kill Road, but instead of then traveling down Arthur Kill Road, the route would bead back down Bloomingdale Road and then turn west on Englewood Avenue into Bricktown.

2. The S55 would travel to Bricktown Mall using the S74 routing west of Bloomingdale Road.

 

Separately, the S56 would have its route changed so that westbound trips serve Tottenville HS before SI University Hospital South (and vice-versa on eastbound trips). The S56 would then follow the current S55 routing through Princes Bay and Pleasant Plains, separating at Engelwood Avenue to follow the rerouted S74 to Bricktown.

 

The savings would be in reduced deadhead distance. The reason why I would have the S74 make a route diversion is to maintain daily service to Pathmark in Rossville, although this should probably not be a full-time diversion (likely 6 AM to 10 PM weekdays and 8 AM to 8 PM weekends).

[Interested Rider]

Arthur Kill Correctional Facility Rest in Peace.

 

For many years, it was the reason that the weekend and holiday mid-morning (7-9 AM) runs from the Ferry were quite crowded and many of the mid-afternoon runs from Tottenville were just as crowded.

 

The facility even provided riders for the S/55 usually at quitting time as it provided a faster alternative for those of us that lived off the island. We were able to make connections with SIR at Princes Bay that saved a lot of time in our quest to get home as soon as possible.

 

To all of the bus drivers that for many years took the staff and visitors to and from the correctional facility no matter what the weather was or the road conditions, let me say Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! We appreciated your work as each and every day, you went the extra mile to make sure that staff would get to work on time and to get home. May all of you have a happy and healthy holiday and new year.

 

My sympathies to the workers who are being laid off from there

[LRG]

Yup, I saw this yesterday at the Arthur Kill/Bloomingdale Road westbound stop. It will take effect on Monday the 5th.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I doubt they'd build another depot there when Charleston is relatively close. If anything, they'd expand the Meredith Depot.

 

Like I said, there are calls for another depot on Staten Island. What will happen I can't predict, nor can you, but that's the word on the street. In fact it was brought up during the opening of Charleston Depot that another depot is needed here and politicians on the island have been trying to work with the to secure another space. We really only have 3 depots because Meredith is really just a garage and not a fully fledged depot. Charleston mainly took on the overflow of buses from Yukon and Castleton so all it did was help alleviate overcrowding at those two depots. That space could be good because the folks over by Charleston Depot have complained about too many buses and too much pollution. The same has been said for Yukon Depot over the years, with buses being parked all about over spilling into the residential neighborhoods near the depot.

 

With more and more development on the island, it is becoming more and more difficult to find an abundant amount of space for projects like Charleston Depot and I don't know any community that doesn't make a stink about having a depot in their "backyard". They all have the same concerns... Air pollution, congestion and parking.

[LRG]

I understand the congestion and parking, but pollution? The buses are much cleaner now than they were in the 90s when they would emit black smoke during takeoff.

 

I actually think putting a new depot on the Arthur Kill site a good idea, but maybe the new depot should be built by the east end of SI, around the Verrazano Bridge area too. This way every corner of SI has depots.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I understand the congestion and parking, but pollution? The buses are much cleaner now than they were in the 90s when they would emit black smoke during takeoff.

 

I actually think putting a new depot on the Arthur Kill site a good idea, but maybe the new depot should be built by the east end of SI, around the Verrazano Bridge area too. This way every corner of SI has depots.

 

Well yeah, no matter how clean buses are, folks cry about pollution. Even if the buses are cleaner, if they're causing more congestion, all of the cars idling or stuck in traffic can certainly create more pollution. The Bronx has some of the highest asthma rates in the city, if not the country and that's one reason I believe that the got so many new hybrid buses running up there to try to combat that problem and the outcries from those communities. If I recall correctly, the asthma rates were particularly high in the areas of the Bronx where there are depots at. Same thing was true for 100th street depot in Manhattan. High asthma rates and when they rebuilt that depot, many in the community didn't want it there.

 

As for your other suggestion, I agree, but I'm not sure if that will be possible with all of the development happening and the population growing here. Think about how long it took to get the third "official depot". The politicians here had been trying to get another depot here for a good 20+ years.

[checkmatechamp13]

Like I said, there are calls for another depot on Staten Island. What will happen I can't predict, nor can you, but that's the word on the street. In fact it was brought up during the opening of Charleston Depot that another depot is needed here and politicians on the island have been trying to work with the to secure another space. We really only have 3 depots because Meredith is really just a garage and not a fully fledged depot. Charleston mainly took on the overflow of buses from Yukon and Castleton so all it did was help alleviate overcrowding at those two depots. That space could be good because the folks over by Charleston Depot have complained about too many buses and too much pollution. The same has been said for Yukon Depot over the years, with buses being parked all about over spilling into the residential neighborhoods near the depot.

 

With more and more development on the island, it is becoming more and more difficult to find an abundant amount of space for projects like Charleston Depot and I don't know any community that doesn't make a stink about having a depot in their "backyard". They all have the same concerns... Air pollution, congestion and parking.

 

They could always expand Meredith.

 

In any case, the reasons you brought up are an even better reason why they should just expand Meredith. It doesn't border any residential neighborhoods and also much of the land on the West Shore is deemed unfit for residential development. Therefore, it should be cheap to acquire (because developers could only build commercial units on the land and don't have the option of building residential), and it's not going to impede any real development.

 

I mean, where else could you really build it? There are probably too many regulations to build it in the Greenbelt, and there aren't really too many other places to build it. I mean, like you said, you can build it by the AKCC, but even then, it doesn't really offer a geographic advantage, and I'm sure some developer would want to grab that land up. Like I said, if you're building a bus depot, you should get it on the cheapest land possible. It cuts costs and you're not taking away "breathing room" for the population to grow.

[B35 via Church]

Yeh, this is a bit of a blow for the 55 & the 74....

 

Well, I'd say it's time the 74 be moved down Bloomingdale rd & have it shoot over on Englewood & on Veterans rd. to Bricktown... saves mileage, and serves far more (potential) pax.... little easier on the physical buses too, since it won't have to travel on that stretch of jacked up road along Ar. Kill rd (where virtually no one boards/disembarks anyway)....

 

Far as the S55 goes.... I don't have a problem w/ where they're gonna choose to terminate em at.... but what I'd do is have it loop around rossville (the neighborhood) before it gets there....

(That is, Bloomingdale -> Woodrow rd -> Rossville av -> Veterans rd (west) -> back to Bloomingdale/Veterans rd (east))

[checkmatechamp13]

Yeh, this is a bit of a blow for the 55 & the 74....

 

Well, I'd say it's time the 74 be moved down Bloomingdale rd & have it shoot over on Englewood & on Veterans rd. to Bricktown... saves mileage, and serves far more (potential) pax.... little easier on the physical buses too, since it won't have to travel on that stretch of jacked up road along Ar. Kill rd (where virtually no one boards/disembarks anyway)....

 

Far as the S55 goes.... I don't have a problem w/ where they're gonna choose to terminate em at.... but what I'd do is have it loop around rossville (the neighborhood) before it gets there....

(That is, Bloomingdale -> Woodrow rd -> Rossville av -> Veterans rd (west) -> back to Bloomingdale/Veterans rd (east))

 

I made a similar suggestion on Subchat: Re: Bus Service to Arthur Kill Correctional Facility Discontinued

 

I was originally worried about screwing over riders along the northern part of Bloomingdale Road (even if you kept the S55 there, they'd have no weekend service), so I figured that's where I'd have my proposed S82 run (I wasn't sure where I should have it run in the South Shore)

 

In any case, since all of Bloomingdale Road would be covered, that'd free up the S74 to serve Sharrotts Road, which would allow it to serve the Tides development plus whatever small amounts of industry and residential housing are in the area.

 

But if the MTA doesn't implement the S82 (I'm trying to meet with politicians to make it happen, so it's possible it could be only a few years away), then yeah, sending the S74 down Bloomingdale Road and Englewood Avenue would be the right thing. Whatever few riders are along that part of Arthur Kill Road will have to find some alternate form of transportation (and after looking at a map, it's only a 10 minute walk from Bloomingdale Road/Veterans Road East down to Woodrow Road, so those riders would still have access to weekend service)

[LRG]

I made a similar suggestion on Subchat: Re: Bus Service to Arthur Kill Correctional Facility Discontinued

 

I was originally worried about screwing over riders along the northern part of Bloomingdale Road (even if you kept the S55 there, they'd have no weekend service), so I figured that's where I'd have my proposed S82 run (I wasn't sure where I should have it run in the South Shore)

 

In any case, since all of Bloomingdale Road would be covered, that'd free up the S74 to serve Sharrotts Road, which would allow it to serve the Tides development plus whatever small amounts of industry and residential housing are in the area.

 

But if the MTA doesn't implement the S82 (I'm trying to meet with politicians to make it happen, so it's possible it could be only a few years away), then yeah, sending the S74 down Bloomingdale Road and Englewood Avenue would be the right thing. Whatever few riders are along that part of Arthur Kill Road will have to find some alternate form of transportation (and after looking at a map, it's only a 10 minute walk from Bloomingdale Road/Veterans Road East down to Woodrow Road, so those riders would still have access to weekend service)

 

Sharotts Road doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, but you would have to make sure the buses can handle the turns first. So if the S74 operates via Sharotts Road, that leaves the S55 to operate along Arthur Kill Road to Charleston, correct?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

They could always expand Meredith.

 

In any case, the reasons you brought up are an even better reason why they should just expand Meredith. It doesn't border any residential neighborhoods and also much of the land on the West Shore is deemed unfit for residential development. Therefore, it should be cheap to acquire (because developers could only build commercial units on the land and don't have the option of building residential), and it's not going to impede any real development.

 

I mean, where else could you really build it? There are probably too many regulations to build it in the Greenbelt, and there aren't really too many other places to build it. I mean, like you said, you can build it by the AKCC, but even then, it doesn't really offer a geographic advantage, and I'm sure some developer would want to grab that land up. Like I said, if you're building a bus depot, you should get it on the cheapest land possible. It cuts costs and you're not taking away "breathing room" for the population to grow.

 

True. Anything is possible, but they seem to be looking for a new space for whatever reason.

[checkmatechamp13]

Sharotts Road doesn't seem like a bad idea at all, but you would have to make sure the buses can handle the turns first. So if the S74 operates via Sharotts Road, that leaves the S55 to operate along Arthur Kill Road to Charleston, correct?

 

No. The S55 would only serve the southern part of Bloomingdale Road. The reason is because it would take too circuitous a route to reach Bricktown. Somebody down by Amboy Road would have to go all the way up to Arthur Kill Road and all the way back down to Bricktown, whereas using Englewood Avenue would be more direct.

 

Northern Bloomingdale Road would be served by my S82 route. The point of the route is to fill in gaps in the network (such as the SIE service road, the fact that there's nothing between the North and South Shores along the West Shore Expressway, and Bloomingdale Road)

 

Arthur Kill Road between Bloomingdale Road and Sharrotts Road has absolutely nothing. It's literally just forests there without a single home or business, so it would lose all service. Sharrotts Road is narrow, but it doesn't see much traffic, so it shouldn't be too hard for buses to pass each other (we just have to hope people living there don't mind a bus traveling down their street)

 

If the MTA decides not to implement my S82 route, then I guess the next best thing is B35's idea: Route the S74 down Bloomingdale Road and Englewood Avenue, and leave the S55 serving northern Bloomingdale Road (it's a 10 minute walk from Veterans Road West to Woodrow Road to get to the S74 on the weekends)

[Interested Rider]

Interestingly, I proposed the idea of converting Arthur Kill Correctional Facility as a bus depot (when it was not being considered for closing) about two years ago The location has one problem as it is on a level 1 flood plain (that reminds me of Castleton until they fixed it) otherwise it is an excellent idea.

It is better than another shopping center which is what is being planned and it is not in a residential area.

The proposal to reroute the S/74 along Sharrotts Road is an excellent one as it avoids all the areas which caused the many detours over the years when I took the S/74.

The idea for some service to Pathmark is also very good especially if the shopping center could convert some of the vacant stores to a senior citizens center. I always had a feeling that there are many senior citizens who came to the island with their children and would appreciate having a place that they can visit and meet with others (and increase ridership on the S/55).

The S/82 is also a good idea that should be implemented.

This group proves my theory that the best ideas are advanced from the bottom to the top and not the other way around.

Keep trying

[Santa Fe via Willow]

There are already calls for that place to be used as the site for another depot... If it means more express bus service, I'm all for it. :cool:

 

:tup:

 

And not just for X-buses, a 5th depot there could also house artics. And yes folks, I know Charleston's right up the road yonder from AKCF.

 

If not a 5th depot, then maybe a 2nd DOT ferry terminal, or if not that, a USPS General Mail Facility, with UPS & FedEx areas. It would also be a good spot for a new NYPL branch, or a school perhaps.

 

2 things I don't want to see there are more houses:mad: &/or yet another BORING garden variety strip mall:tdown: But I have a bad feeling AKCF's property will become 1 or both of those:(

 

 

Hopefully, it'll become Depot V:)

[checkmatechamp13]

:tup:

 

And not just for X-buses, a 5th depot there could also house artics. And yes folks, I know Charleston's right up the road yonder from AKCF.

 

If not a 5th depot, then maybe a 2nd DOT ferry terminal, or if not that, a USPS General Mail Facility, with UPS & FedEx areas. It would also be a good spot for a new NYPL branch, or a school perhaps.

 

2 things I don't want to see there are more houses:mad: &/or yet another BORING garden variety strip mall:tdown: But I have a bad feeling AKCF's property will become 1 or both of those:(

 

Hopefully, it'll become Depot V:)

 

Actually, I attended a meeting regarding the West Shore (it took place in Mariners' Harbor and focused more on the North Shore, but they brought up the South Shore as well), and they discussed plans for development. It looks like one of the areas they wanted to develop was around the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility.

 

Remember, more development doesn't necessarily equal more traffic if everybody takes the bus. Look on the bright side: It would provide one more traffic generator for the routes in the area, making it easier to justify increased service (both in terms of better frequency and new routes).

 

I mean, they said they would try to maintain the feeling of the area, so they would put up parks and make it easier to access the waterfront. Plus, if they make a fast ferry (I don't know if it would be that side or the Hylan Blvd side of the South Shore), again, the ridership would be right there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Actually, I attended a meeting regarding the West Shore (it took place in Mariners' Harbor and focused more on the North Shore, but they brought up the South Shore as well), and they discussed plans for development. It looks like one of the areas they wanted to develop was around the Arthur Kill Correctional Facility.

 

Remember, more development doesn't necessarily equal more traffic if everybody takes the bus. Look on the bright side: It would provide one more traffic generator for the routes in the area, making it easier to justify increased service (both in terms of better frequency and new routes).

 

I mean, they said they would try to maintain the feeling of the area, so they would put up parks and make it easier to access the waterfront. Plus, if they make a fast ferry (I don't know if it would be that side or the Hylan Blvd side of the South Shore), again, the ridership would be right there.

 

Oh give me a break. The transportation has NOT matched the development on this island and there is no disputing that. All we've got is more congestion and LESS transportation thanks to the . :mad: :tdown:

[Interested Rider]

I checked the Staten Island Advance (December 1 & 2) through the resources of the New York State Library and there is a question as to whether the property could be used something other than a prison.

[checkmatechamp13]

Oh give me a break. The transportation has NOT matched the development on this island and there is no disputing that. All we've got is more congestion and LESS transportation thanks to the . :mad: :tdown:

 

When did I say it did? I said a simple statement: "Remember, more development doesn't necessarily equal more traffic if everybody takes the bus". Is that true or not true? If the development is built in a transit-oriented way, there won't be that much more traffic.

 

And just because the growth rate in transportation hasn't been at the same rate doesn't necessarily mean it isn't sufficient (I'm not saying it is or isn't the case here). In that instance, the buses serving the area have plenty of room. A 50% increase in ridership can be accomodated by the same number of buses if they weren't carrying a whole lot of riders before.